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Avatar universal

Playing with poop

My daughter is 8 years old. She's adopted, but I've had her since 2 years of age.  She has always had behaviour problems, and now takes medication for ADD.  She does strange things all of the time, and I'm at my witts end.  Her latest thing is she plays with her poop, or does something with it, and then wipes the excess on her bed.  Her biological mother is bi-polar, her biological father has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, bi-polar, and manic depressive.  Are these things that she could inherit.  She also struggles in school, she has a hard time reading because she can't remember words.  She is very smart, but does very strange things. She's constantly going into the bathroom and staying, even at school.  She pours the soap out of the bottles and refills them with water. She hides candy and eats it in her bed, basically she puts anything in her mouth she can. Help me if you can, I'm going crazy. I have 5 other children, boys, 4 of whom are adopted, and none do these kinds of things.  Her behaviour is so off the wall, we can't leave her with anyone.
thanks.
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Avatar universal
My 11 year old son has severe autism (nonverbal) and I thought that I was alone in experiencing all this. He plays with his poop after he goes to the bathroom. I've found poop smeared on towels and on the sink. Also, on his bedding.  He empties shampoo and soap bottles. He takes empty water bottles and fills them with soap and pours them all over his bathroom. He even plays in the toilet water after he urinates. He is obsessed with wasting food and making messes in the kitchen. We cannot have candy or ice cream in the house, because he'll immediately eat every bit of it in one sitting. He throws things against the walls, like books and toys (destroying them). This is how he cracked two of his tablets that he watches YouTube on. Everyday is so hard and I keep praying that he'll grow out of it. I take comfort in knowing that other parents are dealing with the same thing and they are getting through it, so I know I can too! Thank you all for sharing your stories. Sorry that I didn't have any advice to give you. Other than to take a deep breath and remember they can't control what they are doing and you just have to forgive them and clean up the mess. And remember that somewhere someone else is dealing with the same exact thing.
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Avatar universal
My daughter has the "Tourette's Triad," consisting of Tourette's (tics and peeps), OCD, and ADHD. The latest manifestation of her illness is:
1. I refuse to bathe for weeks on end
2. I will wear the same dirty old clothes for weeks and refuse to change
3. My hands and body are turning visibly brown and filthy
4. I refuse to brush my teeth or wash up
5. I will not wear deodorant
6. I wear a hood over my head at all times to hide my face
7. I collect and dry my own mini-turds (poop)
8. I refuse to go to school
9. I won't do anything unless you physically make me, and I dare you!
10. I hate you and do not respect any of your stupid rules
11. I refuse to eat - but will sneak and horde food in my room and not throw away old banana peels or dirty dishes
12. I am depressed and hardly speak and lock myself in my room all day and all night
13. The only things I enjoy doing now are watching television or playing Sims and Roblox on my ipad
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Avatar universal
Too late and tired, but I feel for you and family. E're an adoptive family as well. I prefer saying adoptive family rather than I adopted him or e's adopted. Maybe consider.
Some things I think are really relevant as an adoptive mom and psychotherapist
an attachment and adoption trauma informed play therapist and if possible who's trained in child EMDR therapy. Great parent, family and therapist resources you can give your child's counselor at https://www.gobbelcounseling.com including an excellent helpful webinar for $12 for helping kids calm

adoption trauma articles-
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/i-adopted-my-child-birth-what-do-you-mean-trauma-alex-stavros

https://gobbelcounseling.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/is-adoption-trauma/

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/741022/23267348/1375889569320/Healing+the+Trauma+of+Adhttp://drbate.com

zinc and B6, neurofeedback or NLT from debate.com are great for ADD. PTSD often misdiagnosed as ADD as some overlapping symptoms

Attachment, unconditional love, we're in it together approach, you all against the symptom and still curious what is the symptom trying to tell you/ say for her/ him. search attachment parenting, attachment repair/ healing, trauma, etc.

Best Wishes to you, your child and whole family!
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Avatar universal
A lot of these answers make sense and are helpful I believe if you think you suffer from any disorder you should seek help, it dosnt hurt to talk to someone. Hi, Im a father of 2. An 8yearold girl and 2week old girl. My 8 yr old is not biologically mine but she loves me and in her words Imher daddy , IVe  been helping raise her since she was 2. The biological father has been completely absent since then, on drugs and always getting arrested for stealing and weapons. Me and the mother have been married 3yrs and together almost 7yrs. Sometimes with our 8 yr old it can be confusing, shes in 3rd grade she makes great grades, for her age shes an excellent reader, and reads chapter books really well. Only issue she has with school is she rushes all the time even though shes a great reader and writer she tends to get lazy and makes it sloppy. Sometimes she forgets how to spell a simple word she already knows. At home sometimes she is too focused on watching her tv in her room she forgets to go to the bathroom and I;ve found poop smeared on paper, walls, and in her dirty clothes basket. And weve sat her down and had long talks about it, how its nasty, and could get you sick and stuff like that but yet she still does it. She gets very lazy at home , shes not allowed food or drink in her room anymore but still sneeks and stills snacks and candy in there and taking things that dont belong to her like my wifes make up and pads. She sometimes gets very mean attitude and could careless about her stuff and or getting into trouble. Being spanked dosnt scare her and is ineffective so when she continues not to listen and gets into trouble we take away her things she likes like her tv. And she can get over dramatic , throwing tantrums crying dramatically, makes noises and fake crys when shes grounded for an hour. And when you try to talk to her after shes already in trouble she makes noises over you and ignores us as much as she can. Her walls in her room are drawn on with permanent ink. Her mattress is broke from her jumping on it, and even if we offer her help to clean her room she still dosnt want to clean it and expects us to do it alone. But sometimes she can be wonderful listens, is sweet and caring, and very helpful with the baby. And then theres the side of her that dosnt care. Weve had multiple sit downs with her have spent 1on1 and family time together, we let her see friends and go to birthday parties, but when she gets new stuff sometimes it ends up destroyed in a matter of a couple days. She dumps all her body wash and shampoo and replace it with water, she does however like to wash her hands, and sometimes causes her to play in the bathroom. When she was 4 or 5 we took her to a kids therapy and the therapist was nice had great conversations with our daughter and what she told us was she believed our daughter was mature and very smart, and by this it makes her have strong personality. In which over the yrs I honestly agree. Sometimes kids who have bad behavior or sloppy handwriting and do strange things typically are really smart and intelligent children. I think when my daughter destroys her things and does weird things in her room, shes just bored. Me and the wife have asked her about her biological father, and she really dont have much to say, shes asked basic questions but dosnt seem to really show care for him. In which I can understand and at her age we cant tell her all the details of why hes been absent but me and the wife are open minded people so were gonna wait until shes old enough to understand everything, and if she chooses to want to See her biological father, thats okay, but only when shes older. And even then were not gonna keep that from her, she has the right, I just dont want him to break her heart when she finally does see him. In all honesty I hate him with a passion, but for my daughters sake, I hope he gets some serious help, with all the pills and breaking into houses theres only a matter of time before hes dead or in jail for life.but thats whats so hard, hes a drugged criminal and has a never ending rap sheet. He is definitely unfit to care for a child.but thats whats makes me proud as a father, I love her as my own, and no matter what crazy strange things she does, I still lover her forever. Doctors, friends and family have all said she dosnt seem to have add or adhd, but the therapist did mention o.d.d disorder. In which, even though shes really smart and is not bad all the time, when she gets nervous she has a twitch about her, cant sit steal, or she figits with stuff because shes nervous it may seem disrespectful at times but honestly its just a physical/ mental habit of having a nervous twitch. Everythings pretty much understandable but I just want this poop smear faze to end already. Hope this kinda helps anyone, thank you.
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1 Comments
   A very heartfelt post.  I can tell from the length of it that you really care.  I do have a suggestion.   I have been the CL on this site for years...and all to often I have seen therapists dismiss the possibility of something like ADHD or ADD because the child is to smart.   Being smart, just means the problem does not get caught till later.
   I would find a good child psychiatrist and have the proper testing done (surveys to school teachers, etc) to find out what is going on.  She does have many symptoms of ADHD (including the poop problems).
   This is a very good link explaining what the symptoms, etc. look like.  Check it out and let me know if you have any questions.
       http://www.helpguide.org/articles/add-adhd/attention-deficit-disorder-adhd-in-children.htm
   Oh, if you do have any questions - maybe start a new post.  I almost missed your great posts because it was at the end of this old post.
Avatar universal
OMG, this is exactly what is now happening with our son! He is 10 but all of a sudden we can't leave him alone in the bathroom, he does the same with the bottles, etc, makes a messa and I just noticed poop smears on and around our bed where he often watches TV.  He has encopresis so there is always poop around.

I thought I was going crazy or he was!  I am going to call his neurologist today, we were just there last week.

He is on concerta and we just started with intuitiv for worsening behavior problems.
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189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   Nice post, thank you.   Really agree with the self esteem.  I think that one reason so many with ADD or ADHD have co-disorders of anxiety and depression is due to what the AD/HD has done to their self esteem.
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Avatar universal
I myself have add and did as a child. I'm a louder high energy girl. I wet the bed till I was 13. No poop issues tho. But as for the reading. I struggled till my senior year I was taking aderals for the first time. Also my school offered a Sci Fi english class, I loved science. I read my first book "enders game" I was doing so much better all round in school. I was thinking slower and clearer. As a louder and high energy with also bed wetting. You get shamed so much. Be quiet calm down and so on. These are blows to your self esteem. Low self esteem can cause people to do strange things. So maybe build her self esteem up. Also self control!!!!!! I'm 30 now and still battle both self esteem and self control. We don't understand why we do it or why we can't control it. It's not laziness. Also my childhood was messy, trama and timing also play in. I really think building her self esteem will help a lot. Remember she has to believe the compliments for them to effect her self esteem. I still struggle with this myself. Hearing them I s not enough. And make us uncomfortable. We self punish as well. My thoughts are to your daughter. Mind over matter, our brains are powerful. Patients love and trust will always win!!!!!!
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Avatar universal
I myself have add and did as a child. I'm a louder high energy girl. I wet the bed till I was 13. No poop issues tho. But as for the reading. I struggled till my senior year I was taking aderals for the first time. Also my school offered a Sci Fi english class, I loved science. I read my first book "enders game" I was doing so much better all round in school. I was thinking slower and clearer. As a louder and high energy with also bed wetting. You get shamed so much. Be quiet calm down and so on. These are blows to your self esteem. Low self esteem can cause people to do strange things. So maybe build her self esteem up. Also self control!!!!!! I'm 30 now and still battle both self esteem and self control. We don't understand why we do it or why we can't control it. It's not laziness. Also my childhood was messy, trama and timing also play in. I really think building her self esteem will help a lot. Remember she has to believe the compliments for them to effect her self esteem. I still struggle with this myself. Hearing them I s not enough. And make us uncomfortable. We self punish as well. My thoughts are to your daughter. Mind over matter, our brains are powerful. Patients love and trust will always win!!!!!!
Helpful - 0
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   It might be due to sensory processing disorder.  Check out this link.
          
           http://spdfoundation.net/about-sensory-processing-disorder.html
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Avatar universal
I have a son that was taken in to foster care on the day of my seven son and he is four and is so picky about even someone touching his sippy cup that he wants to no and masked u if we washed our hand with soap before giving sippy to him . i read ur theory on it and believe it to be true but could there something else going on in that foster home more than that . cause the foster parent which is a 60 + year old man and wife that said they had this happen with another child ???
Please help if u can I got a high powered Super lawyer out of walnut creak ca  to fight this and although they are coming home after being gone a week and a half i want to no if any damage has been done to my little boy ? Thank u from all of us
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Avatar universal
How did you become so articulate then? You're obviously very bright, which I'm sure you've been told and must be aware of yourself.

Therapy is a wonderful thing...if you find a therapist you can really connect with. I first got into therapy at age 23 after reading The Primal Scream. I live in L.A. where having a therapist is common. I am now 67 & have been in therapy 6-7 times, a couple times for over 5 years. Now I'm in a 12-Step group. I believe in not being alone in my problems. It makes them too painful and makes me too isolated, which is counter-productive, in my opinion.

BeIng different from the world at large is far less horrible when you've figured out who to connect with (and there are more of us than you would think), how to head towards sanity (I also became a Social Worker, to give back and to make use of my quirks), and when you connect with your Maker, who knows every part of your being and loves you anyway. Being so loved and accepted by Him and always having access to His input and thoughts became my most vital source of mental health.

You sound like a very level headed person, in spite of all you described. I hope you do try therapy again, this time without telling your mom. Parents always worry about having all their failures exposed to another human (your therapist) and many people believe seeing a therapist means you're crazy, which it does not. And even if a person is out of touch with reality (I.e., crazy), so what! So they get the help they need. People who are still worried about what any other human's opinions about them might be are creating their own tortured life and they need more help than we do.  Don't tell her anything more than what she can handle.

You are an adult now, and learning how to best take care of yourself is on your plate, not her plate. You are obviously capable of that learning.
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Avatar universal
Hi,
I am not a psychiatrist, but apparently they couldn't help poo smearing  anyway.

All of the children mentioned above suffered from some sort of lack of parental intimacy from their biological parents. (Adopted, or Left )

Here's my theory: Poo is a biological  product of the child, coming out of her/his body . It is a part of himself/herself.
By keeping his/her poo, the child keeps a companion from his/her biology. He/she smears it around so he feels comfortable.

What do you think?
  
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189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
     I don't know about your spoken English, but your written English is very good.
     Anxiety and depression are very common co-disorders for people with ADHD or ADD.   If you need any information on these disorders, please let me know.
    This link may help you figure out which type you might have.
             http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/what
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Avatar universal
Oh how embarrassing.. I just got a flashback from when I was 5 years old. (I'm 23 now). I used to stay in the bathroom a LOT. And I placed toilet paper in a cross on the floor, and pooped on it. Then I would study it, before I flushed it in the toilet.. I also used to pee on/in my toys.. I would also experiment on different ways to urinate. I would place toilet paper in my pants, making a "diaper" and pee in it. I would take a toilet paper core, place it on my urinary opening, and pee standing like a man. I would do this outdoors too.

A relative explained to me that when I was still in diapers, maybe 1-2 years old, I would smear my poop on the wall beside my bed.. I would also play with the soap in the sink for hours, looking at myself in the mirror, (also placing a small mirror on the floor and looking at my genitals), I also would shower for way too long, it felt so comfortable.

I was obsessed with candy, and would to anything to get some. I talked a lot to myself, out loud, and I was most happy playing alone in my room with dolls, stuffed animals and sticks looking like animals, making conversations between them. (I started doing that when I was 3, and switched to talking to myself in my head when I was about 7 or 8.) I daydreamed a LOT, and never felt comfortable around my classmates. I remember only drawing and doodling, having conversations with myself and looking out the window in class. I didn't smear poop in the bathroom at school, but I stayed in there way too long, and I wet toilet paper with water, throwing it up in the roof and walls in the bathroom. The teacher had to come get me out of there all the time.

I was alone a lot when I was a baby and a young girl. My mother met my father on a night out, they had sex, and she got pregnant. It was a one night stand. My mother didn't realize she was pregnant before she was 5 months on the way, and she had to keep me. She was always out drinking when I was born, and when I was a toddler, and when I was a very young girl. She kept partying and bringing men home. I had multiple babysitters and a couple of young familymembers to take care of me.. My babysitters where between 12 and 17 years old when I was 4-6 years old. I think they were too young to take care of me.

I often refused to go to school or ballet class, starting to cry and feeling very confused and angry.. I was very good at drawing, making things out of cley and painting. I could read and write well, but didn't exactly do well at anything else.. I got teased and bullied a lot. I had my first suicide thoughts when I was 9. I told my mom, but she just started to cry and slapped my face.

I had my first anxiety attack when I was 11. And I didn't know what it was or what to do, I thought I was going to die, so I called 911. I was home alone, as usual. I almost jumped out from the window, two stories down, I was so scared.. I stood on the balcony, screaming on the top of my lungs after help.. The door was locked, so I couldn't get out..

I didn't do well in school, and I continued to get bullied and teased, througout all 10 years in school. I told the teachers, and I told my mom. Nothing changed. I had no father or familymembers to talk to, and my mother didn't take me seriously. I didn't know what mental health was, I had no idea such a thing existed. The bullying stopped when I was 15 and started in highschool (or is it called college?), but I didn't finish the first year, I didn't manage it.. Since then, I have tried 6 times to finish highschool/college, but I have failed every time. I've had many jobs in between the attempts, but only for a short period of time. I've also lived in many different apartments, but failed to pay the rent and became very unpopular with the landlords, wich is understandable..

I moved out from my mother and her boyfriends apartment when I was 17, after nagging her about wanting to have a place of my own (I did NOT get along with my mothers boyfriend, he did and said very mean things to me..) Things went more downhill from there, I got terrorized by my mother and him. I tried to explain to my mother that something was wrong with me, but she just got really mad at me for saying that. I started to just lay in bed, not taking care of myself. Not eating properly, not showering, not seeing friends, sleeping too much, not sleeping at all.. Not washing my clothes or cleaning up my apartment.. I only went to the toilet to poo, and I peed in whatever I could, to not have to go "all the way" to the toilet. I developed an eating disorder and became very thin. I started therapy, but my mother made me think there was nothing wrong, and that I just had to get myself together! I started to party a lot, and sleep with a lot of guys too.

I have been very depressed for a long time, and I still have weird toilet habits.. On my last job, the toilet was placed on the other side of the mall (I worked in a shop), and I would pee in a cup and poo in a plastic bag in the attic of the shop, and then throw it in the garbage and poor the pee in the sink. When I was alone, of course. One time I forgot the poobag and the peecup up there, and my boss found it.. We didn't talk about it, and I was so incredably embarassed.. I was constantly having panic about forgetting if I had done the same thing at home or at my job, I'm, terrified my boyfriend will find something like that here at home.. And it feels like I'm not the one doing it, my mind is totally blanc, and I just do it on autopilot.. It scares me, because I have no idea if I have done it or not, and I'm terrified to forget about it so others can see it..

I quit my job, and became more depressed. I smoked weed for the first time a year ago, and I finally realized all this. It wasn't the weed that made me this way, it only pushed it to the surface.. I'm now currently on a waitinglist to get help from a psychologist, and testing for ADD and/or ADHD.. I think I have ADHD, anxiety and serious depression and maybe dysthymia. Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native tongue..
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189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   Problem with ADHD kids is that they don't think about pooping until its too late.  And then its too late.  They need regular times on the toilet.  Doesn't matter if they poop or not.   Hopefully, you have noticed some consistency of time when the mistakes happen.   Start them on the toilet 2 hours before and an hour afterward.  Don't make a huge deal of it.  Just ask them to try.  If nothing happens thats ok.  But be very consistent.
    Now, I am assuming that the child poops at home and is not SID or highly constipated.  That would, of course, change things.
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Avatar universal
I work in school with a 3 year old child with adhd that will not poop on the toilet any strategies or help would be most welcome please
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2135580 tn?1358301101
Is there a behavioral center, mental health clinic, psychiatrist or counselor that she could see in your area?   I had many problems with my son and any of those places would be a great place to start!  Your Family Practice Physician or Pediatrician may even give a referral.  I truly believe that seeking counseling will benefit her and help your entire family!  They know how to get to the bottom of what is really bothering her and help YOU to help her through it all!  I pray you find the help she needs!
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Avatar universal
everyone that has problems with thier adhd children, i am a 21 year old male with adhd, i have neen off my meds aince i was 8 and i too have had problems similiar to those of your children, i played in my poop until i was in high school, i can tell you that after a while it's like an addiction i legitamatly had withdrawls much as a meth addict would, and i have been tested as a grnius, however i have problems intaking info, i have to do more than one thing at a time, that may possibly help with your children, and as far as lying goes, try to understand that it actually is part of the condition, abd that you need to keep telling them when they are caught in a lie, it lets them know that they cannot get away with it,  
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Avatar universal
My son had encopresis due to bowel distention with partial bowel blockage. The doctor got the blockage out and put him on a laxative for six months so his bowels could return to normal. They did a contrast x-ray to find the blockage.
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Avatar universal
I am so happy I found this group! I thought something was really wrong with my son who is now 10. He poops on himself and then hides the underwear. Sometimes he goes in the bathroom and goes to bathroom and then smears poop on the sides of the bathroom wall. He has also been taking his shirts and wiping himself (even in the bathroom) and puts them on the side of the sink. sometimes I look in the linen closet and find new washcloths way in the back with poop on them. I make him soak his underwear and wash then by hand before I wash them in the wash.
I have to make sure to check any of his underwear before I put them in the wash or I will get clumps of poo when I take the clothes out to dry. When I ask him why he does it hes says he does not know and looks like he is going to cry. For a while I was just not telling my husband, but I told him and now we are trying to figure it out. I got some good ideas from reading these posts, so thanks to everyone for posting.
He also wets the bed 3 out of 7 nights per week. I was thinking of getting one of those devices that wakes them up at night.
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Avatar universal
Please can somebody advise me on what to do with my 10 year old. He was recently in trouble at school for blocking the sinks with paper towels and flooding the toilets. When questioned by the teachers they also discovered that he was responsible for an incident a couple of weeks earlier when poo was smeared on the toilet walls. When asked why he did it he said it was because he was angry because he was blamed for everything in school even when it wasn't his fault. He understood that what he did was dirty and not the right way to deal with his anger.  Things seemed to improve in school after that and as far as I know this didn't happen again, however I went into the bathroom this morning and saw poo smeared on our bathroom wall, when I asked why he did it he said it was because he was angry. Whenever he's in trouble or does something unacceptable like hitting his brother, lying, stealing he just clams up and can't explain why he's done it, we just get "I don't know" with a blank look on his face its so frustrating! He is the eldest of three children and at one point thought it may be a bit of jealousy as I was pregnant with my third child when the smearing started at school. He has always been Involved and I have always made sure he felt important as I had my other children so I can't understand why he is doing these things its like he wants to hurt me, he's seen me in tears over his behaviour I've begged him to tell me why he does the things he does. His lying is out of control and I find it extremely difficult to believe anything he says anymore. He makes things up to his friends and in school and other children have started to cotton on to his tall tales. I am at my wits end now and don't know who to turn to, I'm terrified that I'm loosing my bond with him I've gone through it a million times in my head and can't come up with an explanation as to why my beautiful little boys head seems so messed up. Please help!!
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189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   Sounds more like a 4 year old who wants his way.   Post over on the child behavior forum (start a new post) and we will try to help.
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8315962 tn?1397626280
My nephew might also have ADD because he keeps running around and shouting. he's 4 years old now and whenever we try to stop him he lies down and cries on the floor.  he also keeps on trying to get his toy cars and throw them to the wall
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Avatar universal
My four year old daughter is pooping a little in her pants and saying she can't feel it and then today she smeared poop all over her face and body. Any advise on how to get her out of this phase. People have told me she has ADHD but has never been diagnosed. She is very smart but won't show it to teachers. Help please
  
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