More Suboxone?

[OpiateLover33]

Im pretty new to suboxone i have be on 2mgs for 3 weeks i take it in the morning and i am still getting cravings like crazy close to relapse

Before i was on suboxone i was using hydros about 60 mgs a day and then about 100mg of morphine sometimes mainly in the past 3 months before that i was buying 100 bags of H on the weekends for about a month, and then before that i was taking whatever pk i could get my hands on for about 2 - 6 times a week for a year.

My docter thinks i have to deal with some of the cravings and its all apart of the treament

Do you think my doc is wrong and i need to up the dose or take another pill at night? because i am meeting with him on the 23rd about it and i just wanted to see if it would be a good idea or not i need some help!

[avisg]

If it was working for him thats what matters . He appeared to be taking a few different things morphine ,hydro and heroin  Sub does not control cravings as everyone has said that is where recovery care is sooooo important

[christos24]

i extremely agree that aftercare is an absolute must in staying clean and being in recovery, without i would have relapsed for sure...meetings, therapy, one-on-one counseling is soo important, its crucial, i cannot stress that enough...it takes at least 6months to a year for your brains natural pleasure receptors and emotions to start and fully fix themselves to where you actually experience real feelings and emotions..you didnt become an addict overnight, so being considered a recovered addict is also not overnight, its a daily battle and a long road, but damn does it feel good to actually live and not be a slave to a pill or powder...

[christos24]

2mgs is not that low of a dose....most doctors start you at taking 2mgs see how you feel and then if needed go up accordingly..most people need to be at 4-16mgs, pretty much anything higher than 24mgs is pointless. you kind of picked up the information about suboxone that your doc told you...suboxone is a mixed agonist/antagonist opioid, thats means that the main active ingredient in it buprenorphine has both effects that are similar to the opiates we abused(vicodin,percocet,oxycontin, heroin, etc.) but longer lasting and not nearly as euphoric, and also has antagonists features that appear when you take very large doses of suboxone(32mgs and up), antagonist opiates like naloxone and naltrexone are used for opiate overdoses in hospitals.. suboxone has two ingredients in the tablets-buprenorphine 8mgs and 2mgs naloxone..the naloxone is put in suboxone to deter addicts from injecting it intravaneously, research has shown that naloxone will not have any effect if someone who is not addicted to opiates shoots suboxone and if you take suboxine as you are supposed to the naloxone orally will have no effects..and research has shown that even if someone is an addict and shoots it that the naloxone will most likely still have no negative effects...there is subutex, which is used in the very beginning of treatment at some centers/clinics, that is just buprenorphine...now buprenorphine is a potent opioid, it is 30-45% stronger than morphine and is commonly used and abused in europe for analgesia(killing pain), its average half-life is 37hrs. and usually people with one dose are good for almost two days, no wd's..burepnorphine itself is a mixed agonist/antagonist so it does not produce the intense or pleasurable amount of euphoria and relaxation as full agonist do like heroin, methadone, or oxycodone, it does have a little buzz to it but very mild..and another very unique feature about suboxone is that since it is a mixed opioid the lower dose you take the more agonist effects you get, so more euphoria and positive opiate effects, and the higher the dose it will put you into worse and worse wd's..i was at the ceiling effect for dosing i ws at 32mgs for 8 months and i can tell you it was no better than 24mgs honestly...and the higher your dose the harder and longer it is to get off completely..2mg is a good starting dose especially for hydrocodone or other mild potency opiate addictions, theyre is no use for large amounts of suboxone or any treatment drugs its not that severe..i do think opiatelover33 should go up to 4-8mgs tops but only after they talk to the doctor first..theyre will be no physical wd's anymore so its all mental, even if you feel you need more hold out and talk to the doc he'll help work out the correct dosage for the situation..the worst part of  opiate wd is the mental part it last for almost a year and it creates false pain, messages, and anything else it can throw at you..it will trick you into making things much much worse than what they relaly are...stay strong, continue at your prescribed dose, if you need to go up, you need to go up..its that easy.youve already gone through all the terrible hpysical part of getting off, now all you need to do is work through treatment, it def. does get easier and better....if you really feel the need call your doc and explain whats going on...-christos

[worried878]

is this user seeking any aftercare?...i smell deep doo doo if not..depending on sub to make u clean is like depending on our government to save this economy!

[worried878]

2 mgs a day is appropriate for a 60 mg hydro habit...i take that back cos sub is not really an intelligent option for that low of a hydro dose...but people do that all the time...1 mg of sub is approximate to 30 mgs of hydro,,,,,it is a partial agonist while hydro is a full agonist...but sub is a whole bunch stronger than hydro...look at it how u may, but a 60 mg hydro user can CT or taper...if relapsed a bunch of times this may be the only choice..but it should be a last choice for a low quantity user like that

[snowqueen227]

Accidentally, hit the post comment button before I was done.  Anyway, once I finally stopped taking my 0.5mg a day it really wasn't that bad.  I think by the 2nd night I was slepping pretty well.  I was anxious and somewhat irritable and antsy, but nothing compared to what coming off of strong opiates is like.  By the end of the first week days 5-7 I was feeling ok and sleeping fine.  By the end of 2 weeks, I was feeling like my old self again.  I felt happy and I had energy.  That's always what seems to be the hardest thing to get back is the energy and feeling happy without being high or on some kind of drug.  I've read a lot of blogs from people who tried to go cold turkey off of 2-4mgs of Subxone and said that it really wasn't any better than coming off of straight opiates.  they said that the withdrawl symptoms were really bad.  The way I did it, I believe anyone could do it.  I'm TERRIFIED of going through withdrawl and being sick.  It's my worst nightmare.  The only reason I'm still on it now is because I'm stupid.  I was off for like 6 months and I was absolutly fine and someone gave me some Suboxone and I took it for a few days and then got scared that I would feel sick if I stopped so I didn't.  I probably would of been fine.  So stupid...but when I do wean myself off again it will be the same way I did last time.  The doctor proably won't recommend to do it that way, but you can manage the pills you have and do it however you want to.  I had like 15 pills that I managed to last like 6 months.  Once you get down to a mg or two you'll only use a few pills a month.  Like I said, make it last and do it slow.  It will be much easier.  Everyone's got to come off at some point or another. ~Holly

[snowqueen227]

I'm honestly shocked that your doctor put you on such a low dosage.  2mg "CAN" be a very strong dosage and is something to decrase to eventually after you've been on Suboxone for a while.  In the beginning, coming off of straight opiates it is just not enough.  Most doctors put people on 4-12mgs at first.  My doctor told me that opiates are a full agonist or antagonist (not sure that exact word) but suboxone, subutex, and buprenorphine are only half.  In the first week, you are "detoxing" from full to half no matter what dose you're on.  You will go through some withdrawls, but it wouldn't be anything like going cold turkey.  Once you get through that first week or so.  You should not be feeling any withdrawls, depression, or lack of energy.  There are 2 reasons you are or could be having cravings; 1. You're not physicallly satisfied and 2. You love the feeling of getting high.  Craving the feeling of getting high will fade over time mostly because the memory of what getting high felt like isn't fresh in your brain anymore therefore you don't think about it that much.  Not being physically satisfied has to do with your dosage.  If you don't feel happy and sick-free then you crave drugs because you know that will make you feel good and better.  I did percocets and hydrocodones and such and then proceeded to do oxy's after the other stuff stopped working.  Then I started doing methadone pills once the oxy's didn't work that great unless I took a bunch, which was more expensive.  Then I eventually did liquid methadone at a methadone clinic and then did Suboxone.  When I started Suboxone, I had previously been taking 80mgs of methadone a day.  I stepped down 4mgs a day for like 2-3 weeks until I was at like 22mgs.  Then I started Suboxone and I think I was on 8 mgs a day (it's been a while).  It's been a couple years and I take 16mgs a day now.  You shouldn't really ever need more than that.  Just like that other person said, it doesn't do anything.  I've come off and gotten back on Suboxone a few times.  I definitaly think you should be on at least 4mgs a day.  I don't know how many pills you have. I don't know if you should take more before you talk to your doctor, because you don't want to be short a day if he/she won't give you more.  However, I would think that if you did go ahead and take more and tell your doctor that it was unbearable for you on such a low dose.  I think they'd understand that and up your dose.  Make sure when you talk to them that you emphasize how strong your cravings are and how bad you feel and how your scared that you're going to relapse.  Suboxone isn't any good if you don't take enough and feel forced to relapse.  My sister is on Suboxone too and she was taking 4mg a day.  She didn't have any physical withdrawls, but she mentally didn't feel ok.  See, when you take opiates it increases the Seritonin and chemical levels in your brain that make you feel "happy".  When you take opiates for so long, you body stops producing those "happy" chemicals on it's own without the opiates.  When you finally detox, you're body goes into shock and that's why you get so physically sick.  It throws every "sick symptom" at you at once.  You also are actually depressed too because your chemical levels in your brain are all messed up.  Even once the physical stuff goes away you can feel somewhat depressed for a long time.  Usually that feeling of boredom and feeling uncontent lead back to using.  That's what happened with my sister.  She kept going back to using heroin.  She'd keep taking the Suboxone, but she'd switch on and off.  Finally, my parents found out and put her in an inpatient rehab center.  Once she got out they had her doctor double her dosage from 4mg a day to 8mg a day.  Since then she hasn't had those cravings anymore.  She's finally at the right dosage for her.  The other thing I tell people about weaning off is to do is to do it SLOWLY.  Doctors don't do it right in my book.  Doctors want you to go from taking one 8mg pill a day to taking a half, which is 4mg to taking nothing.  Some might go down to 2mg and then stop.  The one time I actually successfully got off Suboxone and stayed off for a while I went down to 1/2 of 1mg- so 0.5mg.  I had the 8mgs pills (the 2mg pills are almost the same price and you get 4 times less) and I broke it into quarters and then the quarters into quarters.  It's not an exact science when you break them like that but it's close enough.   I went from taking 8mgs, to 7mgs, to 6mgs, to 5mgs, to 4mgs, to 3.5mgs, to 3mgs, to 2.5mgs, to 2mgs, to 1.5mgs, to 1mg, to 0.5mg.  By the end it was just a little chip.  I could still FEEL it every time I took it.  You know in the morning when yesterday's dose is starting to wear off you and start to get that anxious irritable feeling?  I would take my 1/2 a mg and I would still get that relaxed feeling like I just took a Percocet.  That'swhy at the beginning of this comment I said 2mg can be strong.  1mg or less of Suboxone can get someone high is they don't have a tolerance.  The doctors try and say that you can't get high off of Suboxone, but you definitely can.

[worried878]

i do agree...a maintenance narcotic is the only way that some peolple can make it///but please seek aftercare...if nothing changes then nothing changes

also talk to ur doctor..an AD may be in order..I talk with peole and the underlying problem of why we use s addressed with a medication...be it WB ..an ssri or whatever chemical we are deficient in...the aminos also can help so so much...people think they are nothing but another useless vitamin...but in the dose recommended they can comabt depression and anxiety...not to say they would replace wb or an ssri etc...many use due to an underlying problem in our brain..it is a fact...if u can,,, look into it

[cattalina]

Since you're past the point of feeling acute wds from the hydros/morphine you really are better off finding a way to deal with the cravings. If you're really seriously on the verge of a relapse and meetings or counseling isn't helping you than you may be best to take another 2mgs/day - after speaking w/your doctor. However - sub is not a cure all and you will have to face those cravings at some point. I don't know if you read the other posts about sub on this site or not but it is a very tricky medication. It seems like a miracle in the beginning but at some point it turns on you. Most people who have success with it only take a small amount for a short period of time. I'd encourage you to read the posts on this site and decide then if you'd like to up your dose.

[worried878]

dont want to even go there...but wishing u all the luck in the world...aftercare is the key as after this amount of time ur physical wds are almost or if not completely over....be safe and seek some help to stay clean...sub is a tool and can become a doc in a heartbeat

[christos24]

you most likely need to go a little higher with your dose but dont do anything with that until you talk with your doctor, you didnt have a very long or very high addiction so in some ways you are lucky you are getting help as soon as you did..before wd's and everything got way way worse...you were able to get off fairly soon and with not too huge of a habit at all...not to downplay how you felt mentally and physically from wd's, but suboxone is unique in that the lower the dose the actually more "opiate" buzz effect it has...the most effective dose for opiate abusers and addicts(past junkies) is anywhere 4-16mgs any higher than 24 mgs is pointless, i was on 32mgs daily for over 8months and i honestly had way more effect from 16mgs than that..it seems wierd but its true look on wikipedia or talk to your doc he can explain why its fairly easy..best of luck and stay strong..and i also agree with the above statement going to meetings and therapy is crucial in staying clean and for recovery-christos

[flmagi]

well...............I hate to say you should have your dose increased because the lower the dose of Sub, the better.  But on the other hand, you're coming off of alot of stuff and you don't want to risk a relapse. You really shouldn't be experiencing such strong cravings on Sub.
Then again, you're Doctor is right about you needing to deal with the cravings with some after care program like NA or AA.
This is my opinion (just an opinion),  Your dose should be upped slightly, perhaps to 4mgs daily along with some kind of meetings or counseling. The aftercare is a definite "must do".
Good luck to you. Don't give in, even if the doctor doesn't up your dose.