Do we addicts have a disease? For real? How do we know that?

[clean_in_ks]

Whether it's opiates, cocaine, alcohol, methamphetamines, nicotine, gambling, food, or any other possible addiction whether behavioral or substance originated...this video CONVINCED me addiction is a brain disease.  I have already been doing extensive research to better understand myself , other addicts in my life and addiction in general, but this video???  It's the bomb diggity, guys!  I mean it......it made me laugh, cry, understand things I have ALWAYS questioned.

How do we KNOW it's a disease?  Are we a dependent abuser/user or truly an addict?  Why do we have cravings?
What makes the cravings intensify and drive us crazy (like for me the past few weeks?)  Really?  For Real?
Why do our personalities and interests change?  Why do we do things we would never find ourselves EVER doing if it wasn't for the addiction? Behaviors and things considered "morally wrong"?....are we bad people?

I have two addicts in my family that I love with all my heart and soul.  I helped them both A LOT when I was newly clean....almost too much...risking my own recovery by wearing myself out.  But you know what, they both CONVINCED me they wanted their children back....and they were gonna stay clean when they got out of jail/prison THIS time.  One is back in jail being held by the feds....the other is MIA and out using again and making no contact with our family or his children.  I was really trippin about this....and I'M A DRUG ADDICT MYSELF, guys!!  But I allowed myself to develop "an attitude" and it's been creating TONS of stress.  I love them SO MUCH....and after I watched this video, I balled my eyes out.....and I told my husband..."Honey, I can't believe it....I understand them NOW"  You see, they are both methamphetamine addicts, one has been since she was 12 yr old and she's 38 now!
I thought I understood A LOT before......but now, guys?  You just gotta find an hr in your life to watch this.  

It is a long video, yes.  About 1:12:38 running time.  But I promise, it will be the best hour you could spend if you have an interest in addiction.  There is an introductory speaker at the beginning because the keynote speaker is at a seminar of some kind.  I was GLUED to it.  I learned SO MUCH.  This information has just been published in the last 3 to 5 yrs so some treatment centers and outpatient facilities are most likely using it.  But what about all of us that don't know about it?  Every single person, addict, non-addict, wife, husband, parent, that loves an addict or IS an addict HAS to watch this.  I've seen clips of this guy's videos before...but not THIS ONE!!!

I feel transformed after watching it....like an enlightenment.  Blessed me BIG TIME.  Don't let the title throw you.....it's about addiction being provable as a disease.....it starts off a tad slow....but watch it ALL.....please.  I'm sending the link to every person I know.  Some, maybe most, may not carve out the hr of time to watch it.....but at least I passed it on.  Right?  Can't control others....only me, myself and I.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hz6-2NwRzE

It makes me appreciate every struggling, suffering, addict ALL THE MORE.

God bless you all, each and everyone of you~
Connie

[clean_in_ks]

WOW!!!  Hahahaha!  A whole year and a month ago, eh?  Thank you for bringing this back up, Annie.  I took the time to read thru the whole thread again.  Isn't it completely AMAZING how we forget....I mean what we said and where we were just 13 months ago?  Where we are now?  All that's happened to transform us since last Summer?  It was really good for me to read this again...so I thank you very much!!!

It truly IS a long video...however, something I didn't know 13 mos ago that I know now is that I can queue up a video...watch part of it...and then go back and continue watching it later.  I was pretty green about all that last Summer...LOL

The other thought I had, back then and again today, is how can a person "comment on" or "have an opinion" about something they are unwilling to take the time to watch?  Many DID watch it.....and the impact it had on me and so many others was a very positive one.

I'm really glad you un-earthed it, Annie.  It's a SUPER good video....and Kevin McCauley is a funny, passionate, intelligent, highly educated recovering addict.  I would love the opportunity to go anywhere he was teaching/speaking.  Maybe one day I will be afforded that opportunity.  Until then, thank God for youtube....hahaha!

[EvolverU]

I went back into my posts to find this  this evening, Connie & wanted to thank you again!  I feel that it needs to be re-aired & discussed as we move forward & also so that newbies have access & others can weigh in.

I read my own post above & realized how time, adversity & other experience had adjusted my outlook on this. I read a thread today where a lady was talking about how she had moved from one addiction to another: drugs, alcohol, money, sex, etc. [risk-taking & pleasure-seeking behaviours] & it put me in mind of this thread & of CBT skill-building.

Anyway, for anyone reading this, please, watch the vid. It's a little long but it's worth it. There are also scholarly papers by this gent online. The more we educate ourselves from a variety of sources -- the more we understand about the nature of addiction & it's possible genesis  -- the more skilled we'll be going forward to meet it & lead healthier, more promising lives.

Thanks again, to the OP CIK :)

[Cblack2]

Thank you for sharing this video. It really put things into perspective for me. I really think this is a great tool for addicts. Not only is it going to help me and my SO but I have some friends who I think I really needs to see this before its too late.

[EvolverU]

Dig,

You're not a European...You're from the UK (HA!) Yes, the system in the UK is similar to what we now call 'Drug Court' (strictly a monetary consideration.) Unfortunately, little has changed in terms of understanding or treatment. In fact, I think the system in the United Kingdom might be even more difficult than it is here, as you guys actually administer/maintain addicts in jail. I believe that the system there is almost -- if not as -- burdened by the epidemic as ours (per capita) as the American system.

What say, ye? Have you seen any improvement during your time?

[digger1976]

Just though I would jump in here and tell you what its like at the moment in the UK for offending addicts. They have been using a method called DRO, or drug rehabilitation orders, its simply a last chance for drug users to prove themselves rather than be packed off for jail. You have to go to probation and join in on counselling meetings every other day, drug tests, and one to one meetings. It normally last a year or 18 month depending on the crime committed. It has helped so many people beat the horrible cycle of addiction. It never worked for me as I wasn't ready back then to make a change like I am now. But at least there is hope for others falling into addiction now..

[EvolverU]

Hi There, my friend,

I couldn't agree more re: not sending every addict who gets busted to jail! Not only is it ineffective as a preventive measure & costly to the tax payers but I believe it can actually 'concretize' (did I just make that up?) budding 'criminal lifers'/ criminal behavior. (It's like sending someone to University, eh?)

Anyway, I've seen 'institutionalization' in action like this, my entire adult life & I think that our tendency as a nation to do this is CRIMINAL, in & of itself.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't take responsibility for one's actions. I'm saying that we should be wiser & more circumspect in how we deal with the fraught issue of addicts & the attendant criminal behavior that often goes hand-in-hand with long-term, hardcore use. In my opinion, experiments in other countries (read: European) have been far more productive.

I think that, more often than not, we send people back out onto the streets more marginalized than when they were initially incarcerated, thus creating a vicious cycle for all.

I'll close by saying that you're one strong & special individual, ABN!

Props to you, always,

Annie

[VICourageous]

Yes, Yes this is my point of view. I know he trying to help the addict with knowledge and support instead of sending them away. He also speaks of the past when they used to put one in the corner of a room until they sobered up. He is trying to make a point, as so many Dr now are getting it too. It needs to be addressed as a disease and we need help not thrown in the asylum house or in the corner of a room.
And this is why I am going to go with some in NA to the schools. I sure do pray that some day they might just make it a hour class for the kids to know more then we did. I just remember a egg being fried in a pan and saying this is your brain..Well maybe if they would of scrambled it, it might have got to me more..Ahhh You know, should of..could of.. would we have listen? Who knows but back when I was way younger I do not think so. It was all about the party back then, and the environment thing. Everyone is having fun so I think I will join in..Ya! right! Well I sure am paying the price now. BUT it is so worth it..RIGHT???

[weaver71]

That's the central point I saw ABN. He even broke it down as if he was making his four arguments to a jury. I had not seen that approach. It didn't change my life, but it may change the next generation of addicts lives.

[weaver71]

Predisposition does play a role, but the rat experiments Vicki talked about above, show it addiction can be acquired by low predisposition Rats, it takes more exposure, but the brain the end chemical emballance is the same. Perhaps a disease classification will help those first introduced to drugs by a respected doctor will be seen as accidents rather than people with bad character. The big question each day, sometimes minute is, "Now What?" The answer keeps changing, but as long as I don't use and am happy about, it is the right answer, for now. I vauge for MedHelp therapy. Keep coming back, it works if you work it.

[ActingBrandNew]

This is a very good discussion...so much information. I thought about the video some more and I do think the overall point....or goal I should say, that Dr. McCauley is trying to ultimately achieve is for addicts to get treatment rather than get sent to prison where there is no rehabilitation. He basically said at the end that his goal is to go to district attorneys and treat those that have been arrested over drugs as "patients" with rights rather than criminals.

I do support this thinking as being from California where prison is "Big Business" addicts should be offered better rehabilitation rather than sending people to prison where they get no help.

[VICourageous]

Yes I have lots and lots of information and videos on this. They are doing a lot more studying about it then in the past. I have some paper work that also says that people who are born with less Dopamine can become addicted a lot easier. That is when they say Genes play a factor but so does environment..Plus many, many other issues. When I did get clean back in Sept I was over analyzing my past on why or what might have made me use. Was each one or a certain drug for a different emotion. This is why I stopped doing this and decided to move on.
I seen that video a long time ago with the Rat. They say that reptiles only have the Mid brain-Pleasure (survival) part of the brain. That is why they say that survival like eating, sex or water does not matter any more that it becomes a one track mind to seek the substance for pleasure. As you know that the rat was getting shocked each time he push that button for the cocaine and he did not care about the female in heat or even if he had a gourmet meal.They where just trying to make a point that sometimes it gets so out of control in our life that nothing else matter but the pleasure we will when we get our drug of choice. They a also say people with serious metal issues can get hooked a lot faster and harder. I did put some of this info in my Journal way back when. I have so much more.
Bless us ALL and lets continue toward our Recovery..The first Step was the Biggest Step of it All..

[michael1953296]

I have a ebook by a doctor sorry can't remember his name now but it's titled The addictive brain he goes and show that addicts brain chemistry is very different than a non addict. Now I am speaking about the brain chemistry/the way you are wired from birth not having any drugs in your system.. That's why you see a lot of people when they first take opiates they stop cuz they don't like the feeling at all and then you have others that after their first opiate they are in love..
Michael

[weaver71]

I think the most important reason to 'officially' classify addiction as a disease has many implications. It is likely that helping the addict is not the central goal of the argument. I think this information will influence doctor's view of addicts more than addicts view of themselves. With all the ideas and theories from Dr. Silkworth and Dr Bob to Dr Freud and Terence Girski we have developed skills to regulate dopamine. those tools work. What I see is an attempt to stop punishing addicts and treating them like everyone else. Rosa Parks stubborness was not about riding a bus in a particular seat, she was standing up for equal services, rights, human dignity. it is irrelavent if we think it is a disease, but it sure would change how doctors behave. perhaps they will be held accountable for the drugs they sell. Who knows but father time? I think that video and his legal approach is needed. The knowledge, even if I chose the disease, helps me understand how I could have done so many bad things. It does not justify, but it helps me know myself better. That is what recovery is all about. Great discussion.

[ActingBrandNew]

I took the liberty of taking notes to write a short summary for those who find the video to long to watch. I will do my best to be objective.

Dr. Kevin McCauley has spent many years researching the "Choice" VS "Disease" argument pertaining to addiction.

Dr. McCauley talks about a portion of our brain called the "Midbrain" and how studies were done on mice all the way up to large primates where these animals were given cocaine and were able to push a button to get more.  They monitored the animals who became addicted to the substance and neglected eating etc.

McCauley then pointed out that "mice have no personality" so the argument that people use drugs because they have no morals or dont care or have family issues, etc... is wrong but the mice used regardless. (As well as other test subjects)

correlation from causation

You dont need to be bad to turn into an addict.

At around 53 minutes into the video, McCauley says:

"Addiction is a stress induced defect in the brains ability to properly perceive pleasure"

He says our pleasure threshold has been raised and therefore when we arent using we are incapable of feeling pleasure.

He says, "Anhedonia: Pleasure "deafness" The patient is no longer able to derive normal pleasure from those things that have been pleasurable in the past.

McCauley then talks about the Frontal Cortex which is where we form morals. He says that when addicts are placed into an MRI and shown video of drug use that the Frontal Cortex of there brain that controls things like morals...shuts down and the Midbrain lights up. This is the part that tells the addict it must use to survive and since the Frontal Cortex has shut down, its why addicts do things that land them in jail.

The Dopamine Hypothesis of addiction.


Very compelling video and argument...hope people can watch it

Thanks again Clean_In_Kansas!

[ricart70]

Great Evan !   Annie also an awesome post !   I really do not care whether it is a disease either. I personally don't think that it is in league with heart disease or cancer and others.    I just really like the science behind it. It is somehow comforting to know a part of myself better. I guess that's the only way I can describe it.    I am thinking that if you just split the word in half and make the roots    DIS -EASE   meaning lack or abscence of ease then yes,my history and desire for escape through substance is definitely that sometimes. ;)

[ActingBrandNew]

clean_in_ks, thanks for opening up this discussion. I viewed this thread when you first posted it but wanted to watch the video before I responded. The video was long so I had to make time for it. I just finished watching it and took notes throughout it.

I think Dr. McCauley gave an awesome presentation and was very convincing. I personally dont have an opinion on whether addiction is a "disease" or a choice. I know that growing up....I was told that it was a disease by my parents and in programs but never really took the time to research it. I just rolled with it. Ive read the "A Million Little Pieces" book by James Frey that McCauley referred to that addiction is a choice as well as other literature in that aspect. I watched "intervention" last night and the interventionist talked about treating the underlying problem which was allegedly why this girl was using. Not because of dopamine shortage or anything physiological, but rather family issues she was having. Just because he says its so does it make it so? Probably not! Can there be truth to it? Probably so!

I can only speak from my own life's experiences....nobody elses. I do know that Ive managed to stay clean for 3+ years but by only addressing my "underlying" issues. The argument that McCauley makes is that when we use, our dopamine threshold rises and therefore we as addicts are incapable of experiencing pleasure and therefore crave drugs. He then goes on to say that many addicts replace drugs with others like nicotine and caffeine which release dopamine to replace our DOC. Like  said above, Im only talking about my own life experience but I dont smoke at all or do anything in excess for that matter so if this theory is true...then how can I be clean AND happy? Am I not really an addict? Am I one of the addicts that can just stop after getting in trouble as McCauley referred to a man stopping after 1 DUI? Well, in examining mine own history I have done things like share needles knowing I could catch disease and have gotten high knowing Id test dirty at parole they next day...I couldnt stop. So, in McCauleys definition, Id have the disease of addiction. If so, then how do I live my life with no cravings and Im happy?

Im not saying addiction isnt a disease or that it is...Im saying for me, I dont have an opinion on the matter. The only thing I know is that above all else...its a PROBLEM that needs constant attention and awareness.

[VICourageous]

Well back in Sept when I saw the first video from this DR it got me on a runner to learn all I can about this disease and it does help me to understand alot more now. But the damage is done and all I can do is Pray that my God will keep healing me. So I do have to keep going to my meetings and talk with other addicts too! I now am more focused on my God. Like good and evil. This is a on going process and it does take a lot of work to keep it this way.The info has been a good one for me to realize how much damage these Substance can do and how the Pleasure part of the brain can get so going again with Just One! But as addicts we know this can happen at any given moment anyway. So I am just moving on toward my Recovery with others, But the info has been a life savior too! But like I said too..Should of..Could of..Maybe if I new this way back when things might have been different.But the past is the past and it is time to get out of the Addict thinking to the Clean thinking. I will always try to learn anything and everything about this area of our disease. But like I said it is time to move forward too!!!
Bless

[EvolverU]

Sarah, That's an Excellent Question!

This has definitely underscored the importance of the ways I deal with stress/drama  (life-time bugaboos for me.) It's also made me rethink the people I'm willing to allow into my life/surround myself in terms of stress levels & emotional vampirism.

But, most importantly, as I mentioned above, it Underscores the futility of the fallacious notion that I might ever be 'safe' in taking anything because of the way my brain is wired. Far from giving me an excuse (because I find the term 'disease' useless & it's an old, tired & fraught argument in this context.) it removes it. Besides, if I had cancer or diabetes, I'd be fighting back there, too. I'm convinced that attitude/outlook & not simply giving in go a long way in separating those who succumb & those who don't (naturally, there are other factors!) Anyway, so far, those are my thoughts re: the video.

Thanks!
Annie

[ricart70]

Me too Weaver. I decided to focus on my present and future because I was giving the past way too much of my energy  and when I did the 4th and 5th step I did not feel any of the relief they were all saying I would. I just continued to feel horrible.

[weaver71]

This information was presented in my Intro to Chemical Dependency class. It was more detailed and covered all the subjects he mentioned in greater depth, it was 3 months of covering the disease part of addiction. It changed my program at that time. I was too focused on my past and 4th step at the time. The stress of my program was getting counter productive. I started focusing on reducing one current stress at a time, not thinking about past behavior as much. I had to much in the past to deal with early on. So that info helped me get back into the moment and fix today, later I worked on past stress. Anyway, it changed my perception and focus.

[ricart70]

It will not change anything that I am doing in my recovery.I always reserve the option to add things to the plan though. I think all recovery plans are kind of designed for one thing and that is to quiet and watch out for our addictive voice in our brains. To be honest my recovery plan is not so much a talking or thinking thing but much more of a "doing" thing.  We all have to do what works for us and what helps us.

[dominosarah]

I am just curious here........With the info from the video will any of you change up your recovery?

[WODAgirl]

I believe it is mental disease.

[weaver71]

That is the best overview of addiction and the history of medicine I have ever seen, I've seen dozens of videos like this. All drug users aren't addicts, all obese people aren't addicts, all gamblers are not addicts, but some of all these groups are. I think it's a disease, but if medicine treated as such, there would be less active addiction. For those having doubts about the disease aspect, really, watch this video. He does not justify behavior at all, on tje contrary. I learned all that stuff in different areas, but he lays it out nicely and simply. I laughed until tears where in my eyes from some of the images he uses as examples. Very well done, thanks again Connie.