Aa
Subutex W/D during pregnancy/seroquel
Hey all. I've been on Subutex for 3 years - due to a relapse. Worst mistake of my life. I've kicked heroin many times, but can't kick the sub. Not to mention my "conspiracy theory" on Subutex, but I won't give you that talk now - and I've seen many of you think the same. I found out I was pregnant while in my third year of Sub treatment - so it's not like I switched. My main goal for getting off Subutex is selfish - bash me as you like - I want pain relief during and AFTER giving birth. The option I was given was quite scary - an epidural for THREE DAYS!! I'm a wuss when it comes to pain, but I don't want an epidural for 3 days!! After I had my daughter 3 yrs ago I was given percs - 10 days worth - and was fine. An Epidural means I can't move!! The docs also mentioned they "could" give me a complete opiate agonist, in place of the epidural - gee, let's see which one they actually give me. . . Epidural anyone?? I can't imagine they want to give an opiate addict a morphine drip - even after a c-section! No, we've become a secondary human-life w/in hospital settings. The second you mention you take Sub or seem a little too eager to get that vicodin prescription, you're screwed! Nothing but unbearable pain for you, my little addict. . .
Geez - I've gone off on a rant! Sorry. Anyhow - I'm 29/30 weeks pregnant and jumping off tonight - I only take 2mg per day, and at the highest, maybe 4mg. I figure if I jump off now my child has a great chance of surviving outside the womb - you kno, for those that are gonna tell me I'm gonna miscarry - except after 27 weeks it's no longer called a miscarry, but a premature or stillbirth (Yes, I know those are 2 different things). I'm just trying to weed out all the self-taught med students - I know most of us know more than the nurses who assist the doctors - but that's not what I'm here for. . .
What I am here for is to know if someone has gone through a similar experience, what happened, how long were you sick, and how long did it take for you to feel 100%? I'm jumping off at a smaller dose than most do - so how much lower can I go w/o going insane? I don't really want to find out.
I'm also prescribed seroquel 50mg to sleep, but not sure how this will affect my baby - but I am willing to take it when the going gets rough. Has anyone used seroquel during an opiate w/d?
Geez - I've gone off on a rant! Sorry. Anyhow - I'm 29/30 weeks pregnant and jumping off tonight - I only take 2mg per day, and at the highest, maybe 4mg. I figure if I jump off now my child has a great chance of surviving outside the womb - you kno, for those that are gonna tell me I'm gonna miscarry - except after 27 weeks it's no longer called a miscarry, but a premature or stillbirth (Yes, I know those are 2 different things). I'm just trying to weed out all the self-taught med students - I know most of us know more than the nurses who assist the doctors - but that's not what I'm here for. . .
What I am here for is to know if someone has gone through a similar experience, what happened, how long were you sick, and how long did it take for you to feel 100%? I'm jumping off at a smaller dose than most do - so how much lower can I go w/o going insane? I don't really want to find out.
I'm also prescribed seroquel 50mg to sleep, but not sure how this will affect my baby - but I am willing to take it when the going gets rough. Has anyone used seroquel during an opiate w/d?
hi was just looking if i cud use sero wiv subs ive just *** off 35mls meths and still using. im due to go on subs in 4 days and no it aint guna be easy been er 7 times. like to say well done to u to get were u are nw
Hi,
Just read all the posts, and I was wondering what happened. I was on subutex w/ my 1st preg (my son is 2 1/2 now) and was able to wean off it b4 delivery. he had no NAS and is a smart happy guy. now i'm 33 wks. and only taking a tiny chip of subutex every other day, but this time I can't seem to kick it. I get restless legs/insomnia/ and worst of all i feel like i weigh 500lbs. it becomes an effort just to walk a few steps. my pain/add dr. says it's all in my head, but i feel better when i take the next chip of sub. I hope everything went well 4 u and baby!!!
Just read all the posts, and I was wondering what happened. I was on subutex w/ my 1st preg (my son is 2 1/2 now) and was able to wean off it b4 delivery. he had no NAS and is a smart happy guy. now i'm 33 wks. and only taking a tiny chip of subutex every other day, but this time I can't seem to kick it. I get restless legs/insomnia/ and worst of all i feel like i weigh 500lbs. it becomes an effort just to walk a few steps. my pain/add dr. says it's all in my head, but i feel better when i take the next chip of sub. I hope everything went well 4 u and baby!!!
Avisg is absolutely right no doc would give a 100 percent that a baby being born with these type of drugs will be ok. You have to protect that child by telling them u r on this stuff. Seroquel can be very harmful to a baby. In my state they test babies post birth for drugs,if a baby tests positive the hospital will call cps in. If your ob knows you are on vics then it ok but you have to tell them. Not for you but for your baby.
I have read that along with many other articles discuss that there is major growth from 36 until birth .If ALL of the organs were completely developed at say 34 weeks then the gestational length of pregnancy world be 34 weeks there is a reason that its 40 weeks .
I just pray for both your unborn baby and for you to get your addiction under control and that you get healthy for not only your baby but for your self as well...
I just pray for both your unborn baby and for you to get your addiction under control and that you get healthy for not only your baby but for your self as well...
1 Comments
I have been on 800mg of seriqual for a few months and just found out I'm pregnant what are the risks to my unborn baby??
PS - My OB prescribed me all meds except vicodin - but that's ok, don't bother actually reading the post . . .
Dear Dr avsig - well, I am sure you are not a dr and have no idea what u are talking about - just so you know for future posts - here is some literature u may find helpful:
Week 7-8:
More brain growth. Inside, intestines, liver, kidneys, lungs, heart are all taking shape. Ovaries and testes can be seen. The first muscle movements take place.
By the end of the 8th week, all of the main organ systems are in place, although not in their final form. The embryo sits in the shape of a C, with its large head bowed, and legs flexed upward. It weighs about 1/3 of an ounce, and measures about 2 inches from top to bottom.
Up until this point, scientists have called this wonder of development an embryo. After week 8, the convention is to call it a fetus. All of the most dramatic transformations are over. But there is still a lot of development that needs to take place before the baby is ready to emerge into the world.
Week 31
Gestational age: 30 weeks old.
Embryonic age: Week nr 29. 28 weeks old.
The fetus reaches a length of about 38–43 cm (15-17 inches).
The fetus weighs about 2 kg (3 lb 0 oz).
The amount of body fat rapidly increases.
Rhythmic breathing movements occur, but lungs are not fully mature.
Thalamic brain connections, which mediate sensory input, form.
Bones are fully developed, but are still soft and pliable.
The fetus begins storing iron, calcium, and phosphorus.
[edit] Week 35
Gestational age: 34 weeks old.
Embryonic age: Week nr 33. 32 weeks old.
The fetus reaches a length of about 40–48 cm (16-19 inches).
The fetus weighs about 2.5 to 3 kg (5 lb 12 oz to 6 lb 12 oz).
Lanugo begins to disappear.
Body fat increases.
Fingernails reach the end of the fingertips.
A baby born at 36 weeks has a high chance of survival, but may require medical interventions.
Fetus at 38 weeks after fertilization.[7][edit] Weeks 36 to 39
Gestational age: 35–38 weeks old.
Embryonic age: Weeks nr 34-37. 33–36 weeks old.
The fetus is considered full-term at the end of the 37th week of gestational age.
It may be 48 to 53 cm (19 to 21 inches) in length.
The lanugo is gone except on the upper arms and shoulders.
Fingernails extend beyond fingertips.
Small breast buds are present on both sexes.
Head hair is now coarse and thickest.
The development is continued postnatally with child development stages.
Week 7-8:
More brain growth. Inside, intestines, liver, kidneys, lungs, heart are all taking shape. Ovaries and testes can be seen. The first muscle movements take place.
By the end of the 8th week, all of the main organ systems are in place, although not in their final form. The embryo sits in the shape of a C, with its large head bowed, and legs flexed upward. It weighs about 1/3 of an ounce, and measures about 2 inches from top to bottom.
Up until this point, scientists have called this wonder of development an embryo. After week 8, the convention is to call it a fetus. All of the most dramatic transformations are over. But there is still a lot of development that needs to take place before the baby is ready to emerge into the world.
Week 31
Gestational age: 30 weeks old.
Embryonic age: Week nr 29. 28 weeks old.
The fetus reaches a length of about 38–43 cm (15-17 inches).
The fetus weighs about 2 kg (3 lb 0 oz).
The amount of body fat rapidly increases.
Rhythmic breathing movements occur, but lungs are not fully mature.
Thalamic brain connections, which mediate sensory input, form.
Bones are fully developed, but are still soft and pliable.
The fetus begins storing iron, calcium, and phosphorus.
[edit] Week 35
Gestational age: 34 weeks old.
Embryonic age: Week nr 33. 32 weeks old.
The fetus reaches a length of about 40–48 cm (16-19 inches).
The fetus weighs about 2.5 to 3 kg (5 lb 12 oz to 6 lb 12 oz).
Lanugo begins to disappear.
Body fat increases.
Fingernails reach the end of the fingertips.
A baby born at 36 weeks has a high chance of survival, but may require medical interventions.
Fetus at 38 weeks after fertilization.[7][edit] Weeks 36 to 39
Gestational age: 35–38 weeks old.
Embryonic age: Weeks nr 34-37. 33–36 weeks old.
The fetus is considered full-term at the end of the 37th week of gestational age.
It may be 48 to 53 cm (19 to 21 inches) in length.
The lanugo is gone except on the upper arms and shoulders.
Fingernails extend beyond fingertips.
Small breast buds are present on both sexes.
Head hair is now coarse and thickest.
The development is continued postnatally with child development stages.
I am 100 % sane and many of the organs continue mature all of the way until very close to birth .The lungs of course are one of them .If you want what is best for your baby then yes an inpatient program would be what was best but where ever you go it wont matter if you are not 100 % honest with the doctor about all of the meds you have been on .This is no longer about you its about a baby that can not advocate for it self .I truly hope you find a program and everything turns out well for the sake of the baby
what state do you live in and have you tried calling an asking mybe your obgyn can help you find a place come off subutex
COMMUNITY LEADER
You are the one carrying this baby and taking meds your doctor knows nothing about and you feel just becuz they are prescribed it is okay and then you ask us if we are insane.......Noone is insane here, we are just very concerned about this little baby you are carrying and we hope to God this little baby will be okay. I hope you find a place that will take you.....sara
I am aware of your concern, and trust me, I too am concerned - but I did my research before using the vicodin - and ALL the other meds are actually from my OB. Except the herbals - of course - but those have been around for thousands of years and I don't plan on taking more than one per day - if that. Vicodin is a Category C - same as Subutex and Methadone - so pregnant women can take it if the benefit outweighs the risk. As far as the organs not being done by 36 weeks is false. My daughter was only 34 weeks when she was born, and perfectly fine - the only organ that COULD be underdeveloped is the Lungs - which is why they always test before they deliver twins, which is always much sooner or around 36 weeks. All other major organs were ACTUALLY formed in the first 3 months. Is it still bad? Yes, of course. Do I care, Yes. No I will not be telling my OB that I switched myself to vicodin - are you insane? But vicodin is a much milder pain reliever than subutex - if you read the literature on it. And only has a half life 3.8 hrs - not 37 like subutex. WHich is why regular naracotics are much easier and faster to get off of.
However, I no longer think I can do this myself and have decided to go into inpatient to get off the vicodins and the remainder of sub in my system - unfortunately, there is hardly a place that will take a pregnant woman - but since I am sooo far along, I"m praying they will.
However, I no longer think I can do this myself and have decided to go into inpatient to get off the vicodins and the remainder of sub in my system - unfortunately, there is hardly a place that will take a pregnant woman - but since I am sooo far along, I"m praying they will.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I just read thru this whole thread. I hope to god your ob knows what you are doing here. I also hope the hospital will be prepared when this baby is born. That is alot of meds to be put into your system and then going thru all the wd that you have. I understand that addiction is a beast and you are struggling but you have a baby that also needs to be taken care of here........sara
Some of the organs have not completely formed until 36 weeks are you past that point you are taking several different meds that can have negative effects on your baby .Does or OBGYN know all of the drugs you are taking you have stopped the sub now back to the narco ??? You dont think there could be any ill effects on your baby ? serqual is a very potent anti psychotic .then the sub now narco are you clear all of this with you doctor ?
daily update: I'm very surprised that I had enough open receptors to feel half a 500 vicodin - which most of us opiate addicts know is nothing. However, the half life is true to it's time - my good feelings went away w/in 3 hours. I took 2 halves this morning b/c I'm still ridding my body of Subutex. Like I said, Friday I should be clean off sub - but I'm confused about the w/ds I will experience. Can anyone tell me if they experienced MORE w/d during getting the sub OUT of the system - or did w/d not kick in till it was out? BTW - I've been experiencing w/d like mad for about 1 week - b/c of the small dose of .125 I was taking. I have not taken any since Monday at 10:30pm. Will I go into w/d even more so? I know some people on a large dose can go a couple days and feel fine - however, due to my small doses, I was not fine.
Went back to the health store and got some melatonin and valerian root - gonna try to take those instead of vicodin tonight.
Went back to the health store and got some melatonin and valerian root - gonna try to take those instead of vicodin tonight.
Hey guys, tonight I gave in and took a 1/2 500 vicodin - so i have 2.5mg of vicodin in my system - however I have not taken sub in 24 hrs!! YAY! I was only taking .125 - so I calculated that by friday I should be sub-free - however I might have to ween off vicodin - but if I keep it to 2.5 per day, it shouldn't be as bad as the sub - bc vic only has a half life of 4 hrs - not 37!! I'd rather do a 72 hr detox from vics than a 2 week detox from sub - I'm hoping this will work like I'm thinking. . . I'll post to let u know. P.S. I've passed the point of no return to trying whatever meds I can to get off sub - even while pregnant. the baby is already formed - so he should be fine. Can't be any worse than the crap they give u to induce and all the yummy morphine.
Thanks for the half life explanation - I did end up finding a similar explanation last nite - so now I get it. :0) Perhaps it is placebo, but I feel fine with the Imodium - and it does help with diarrhea, but it also makes me warm and comfy. Sleep has become a real issue since last night. I was VERY jumpy - wailing my arms and legs about even after seroquel - this, to me, is a sign that my bup levels are super low - which is good. However, I can't sleep anymore.
Yes, I am worried about all the meds for the baby - but I figure if people can smoke crack and do crystal meth the whole time, a few OTC drugs and approved scripts can't be that bad. Plus the baby's organs are already developed - so the risk for any defects are as low as possible. Really, I am at risk more for going into labor - which I don't mind. I'm ready to be done :)
Yes, I am worried about all the meds for the baby - but I figure if people can smoke crack and do crystal meth the whole time, a few OTC drugs and approved scripts can't be that bad. Plus the baby's organs are already developed - so the risk for any defects are as low as possible. Really, I am at risk more for going into labor - which I don't mind. I'm ready to be done :)
salsa that was one of the best half life explanations I have heard !!!! I tried the immodium because I heard it help reduce WD it didn't to anything other then what it was marketed for LOL be everyone is different
Hi Karma,
You are going through the withdrawal process, that's why you have been feeling to crappy. Let me see if I can make sense of the half life issue for you:
Suboxone has a half life of 37.5 hours. This means that it takes a total of 75 hours for one dose of the drug to be completely out of your system. If you take 2mg, 37.5 hours later, there would still be 1 mg left in your system. So, if you are taking .125mg in the morning and .125 in the evening, you are taking a total of .25mg for the entire day. This means that by the time half of the first dose is gone, you will have taken another .125 that next morning and you will have .3125mg still in your system at any one time as long as you continue to dose. So, your body is dealing with the lower dose as withdrawal and since sub is so strong, 2 mg will hold you over for more than a day before you feel withdrawal. It would take 75+ hours of not taking anything at all for the drugs to leave your system and the withdrawal would most likely last several days past that. Your dose is so low though right now that if you were able to just take one dose in a 24 hour period for several days - your body would adjust and then you could start skipping days and eventually drop. You will do this. Oh, and I have also heard that imodium will help because of the opiate properties - just be careful with all of the medication that you are taking while pregnant. You are doing great -keep it up. S
You are going through the withdrawal process, that's why you have been feeling to crappy. Let me see if I can make sense of the half life issue for you:
Suboxone has a half life of 37.5 hours. This means that it takes a total of 75 hours for one dose of the drug to be completely out of your system. If you take 2mg, 37.5 hours later, there would still be 1 mg left in your system. So, if you are taking .125mg in the morning and .125 in the evening, you are taking a total of .25mg for the entire day. This means that by the time half of the first dose is gone, you will have taken another .125 that next morning and you will have .3125mg still in your system at any one time as long as you continue to dose. So, your body is dealing with the lower dose as withdrawal and since sub is so strong, 2 mg will hold you over for more than a day before you feel withdrawal. It would take 75+ hours of not taking anything at all for the drugs to leave your system and the withdrawal would most likely last several days past that. Your dose is so low though right now that if you were able to just take one dose in a 24 hour period for several days - your body would adjust and then you could start skipping days and eventually drop. You will do this. Oh, and I have also heard that imodium will help because of the opiate properties - just be careful with all of the medication that you are taking while pregnant. You are doing great -keep it up. S
Went out to the health food store today and the grocery. I picked up a clay/salt/detox bath - says it helps toxins leave the body. I believe it - and today is the first day I noticed the "detox smell." I think most know what I mean - I know I am clean, I take a shower every other day - I can't stand going w/o - even tho I feel as if I have to force myself, I know it makes me feel better afterwards. Perhaps this salt bath will help me rid the toxins/ buprenorphine faster.
Next, I got some Imodium - never knew loperamide (sp?) was a narcotic. . . especially OTC - however, about 30 mins of taking 2 pills - I feel 60% better - still chilly and edgy, but stomach discomfort has diminished almost totally - and no more diarrhea. I was able to eat. I have also been eating chocolate - don't know why, but it helps. I also took a Tylenol PM - which is the same as Benydryl - the TPM as well as the Imodium and vitamins has really helped make me feel so good that I haven't dosed again since 5:30am this morning - 12 hrs. I am gonna take more seroquel around 9pm - and when I wake up I'm going to only take the TPM and Imodium - I think I'm gonna be completey fine within 72 hrs - I really don't believe I have that much sub in my system - I know I can't. Also, I'm pretty sure my metabolism is waaaay higher than a normal person b/c I'm 8mos pregnant - so the sub just doesn't go to me, it goes to the baby, too. If it didn't, there would be no w/d for the baby. I don't think I'm gonna be sick for longer than a week - and waaay less than 17 days (which I read is the norm). I know what most think, but there is no way the HL of .125mg is 37 hrs - no way.
Next, I got some Imodium - never knew loperamide (sp?) was a narcotic. . . especially OTC - however, about 30 mins of taking 2 pills - I feel 60% better - still chilly and edgy, but stomach discomfort has diminished almost totally - and no more diarrhea. I was able to eat. I have also been eating chocolate - don't know why, but it helps. I also took a Tylenol PM - which is the same as Benydryl - the TPM as well as the Imodium and vitamins has really helped make me feel so good that I haven't dosed again since 5:30am this morning - 12 hrs. I am gonna take more seroquel around 9pm - and when I wake up I'm going to only take the TPM and Imodium - I think I'm gonna be completey fine within 72 hrs - I really don't believe I have that much sub in my system - I know I can't. Also, I'm pretty sure my metabolism is waaaay higher than a normal person b/c I'm 8mos pregnant - so the sub just doesn't go to me, it goes to the baby, too. If it didn't, there would be no w/d for the baby. I don't think I'm gonna be sick for longer than a week - and waaay less than 17 days (which I read is the norm). I know what most think, but there is no way the HL of .125mg is 37 hrs - no way.
Your doing great and I am so very proud of you... I left you a note last night on your home page... I understand what ur saying about half life,, as methadone is the same and I agree with you... Stay strong and good Luck. I will pray for u and babby. Message me when you get chance...
I am slightly confused about half-lives. To me, it doesn't make sense that .125mg would have the same half life as a 1mg or 8mg dose. Also, I noticed that when I take a 2mg dose, I can pretty much go a whole to half day w/o needing meds when I wake up - when I take the .125 dose I feel as if I need to dose again w/in 8 hours or so. I've looked up much literature on half-lives, but as you say, they all go by the dose - not the amount - this just makes no sense to me. I am a data/figure type person, so this is just a little confusing not being able to find the answer I want.
Yesterday I took .125 at 9:30am - then not another dose till almost 24hrs later (5:30am) - had some major discomfort. Took a seroquel about 10pm, but woke up around 1am feeling like SH** !! Stomach cramps, leg twitches, etc.. . . the muscle tightening is one of the most uncomfortable w/d symptoms for me - it's def different than heroin, as the muscles get tight underneath my skin, but I am not jumpy - it's like I look normal, but dying w/in. So, I knew I wasn't going to go back to sleep and trying to limit seroquel due to the baby - I stayed up and off as long as I could - but at 5:30am needed that dose. That is why I don't understand how all doses can have the same half life - if I had taken a reg 2mg dose, there is no way I would've needed seroquel to sleep and no way I would have only slept 4hrs - and needed more - I would've slept all night, till the next day and would be fine. See what I'm saying?
Today I forced myself to weigh in and take a shower - I've lost about 4lbs. due to not eating and I'm sure my metabolism is in high gear due to all the twitching, not to mention bowel emptying like crazy! I feel tight muscles today, stomach cramps, but I feel heavy like I can't move - this is a new symptom for me.
Yesterday I took .125 at 9:30am - then not another dose till almost 24hrs later (5:30am) - had some major discomfort. Took a seroquel about 10pm, but woke up around 1am feeling like SH** !! Stomach cramps, leg twitches, etc.. . . the muscle tightening is one of the most uncomfortable w/d symptoms for me - it's def different than heroin, as the muscles get tight underneath my skin, but I am not jumpy - it's like I look normal, but dying w/in. So, I knew I wasn't going to go back to sleep and trying to limit seroquel due to the baby - I stayed up and off as long as I could - but at 5:30am needed that dose. That is why I don't understand how all doses can have the same half life - if I had taken a reg 2mg dose, there is no way I would've needed seroquel to sleep and no way I would have only slept 4hrs - and needed more - I would've slept all night, till the next day and would be fine. See what I'm saying?
Today I forced myself to weigh in and take a shower - I've lost about 4lbs. due to not eating and I'm sure my metabolism is in high gear due to all the twitching, not to mention bowel emptying like crazy! I feel tight muscles today, stomach cramps, but I feel heavy like I can't move - this is a new symptom for me.
Hi Karma - way to go, you are doing great. Stick to your taper program, you are going about it the right way. Optimally, you want to get down to just one dose of .125 per 24 hours, then drop it down to 48 hours - when you can do this with relative ease, then you should be able to drop off without having too much trouble. The half life is over 30 hours, which means that it will take over 4 days to get rid of one dose. Remember that each dose you take has this half life and it builds up, so if you dose twice per day, then the dose is actually building up, not tapering down. Keep posting Karma, way to go.
Hey all, here's my daily post: I've come down to .125mg (1/2 of a 1/4 pill) - basically nothing. However, I am still having some MINOR discomfort when I wake up after a seroquel nap (about 4 hrs). TV is able to distract me pretty well. I had some company this weekend - unplanned, and felt like I needed to entertain this person due to him having nowhere to go - so this helped a lot! Having someone to talk to and take my mind off w/d was great! I recommend it - even just getting on the Net and chatting to strangers, looking at pages, going to Pogo.com and playing cards, etc. makes the time go by very fast. Also, lamaze-type breathing helps w/ stomach discomfort.
I explained to a friend on here that by the time I get to nothing I am scared into going into harder w/d, but I can't let that stop me - and really 4 days of being on a literal crumb can't be that bad. . . anyone know? I am saving 3 crumbs to use as needed, as they will be the extra pieces after my taper schedule. I feel like I have made it so far - farther than I have EVER been off Sub, and if I quit now I will feel like a failure.
I explained to a friend on here that by the time I get to nothing I am scared into going into harder w/d, but I can't let that stop me - and really 4 days of being on a literal crumb can't be that bad. . . anyone know? I am saving 3 crumbs to use as needed, as they will be the extra pieces after my taper schedule. I feel like I have made it so far - farther than I have EVER been off Sub, and if I quit now I will feel like a failure.
So, to keep up to date - I've now started my 4 days of .125 - had some trouble this morning, but all in all - I don't feel too bad. I've got a scheduled dose at 10pm. If i feel ok I'm not gonna take it.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
Is treating glaucoma with marijuana all hype, or can hemp actually help?
If you think marijuana has no ill effects on your health, this article from Missouri Medicine may make you think again.
Julia Aharonov, DO, reveals the quickest way to beat drug withdrawal.
Tricks to help you quit for good.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
