Losing ground

[Longwaytogo]

Please will someone help me?  My dr. of more than 20yrs wouldn't take or return my calls  so I've been detoxing on my own. I've tapered off 100mcg of the fentanyl patch since 15 jan. (My b'day) . It was pretty quick as I just kept cutting the patches in half and was only on it @ 6 yrs. I also had 16 60mg oxycodone / day and 16-20 10/325 norco/ day to keep me steady. 15 mar. I was oxy free also 6 yrs on. My biggest challenge comes w/ the norco. I've been on codeine since I was 19. More than 40 yrs. hard saying goodbye to a very old friend. But I am determined.
Now at down to last 4 norco/day and I seem to be stuck. A kind of holding pattern these last ten days. Afraid to jump just yet but not sure how to decrease. Cut in half ? miss a dose? Which dose? Life keeps happening and I'm just so tired, scared, and lost , twisted in knots.  Can someone please help me find my way again?

[selfinduced]

I forgot to mention. PLEASE do not up your benzo's while detoxing. I always hated the feeling of benzo's when I had to take them pre surgeries, but low and behold I leaned on them during detox and mentally/physically got hooked in a very short time. I then had to wean off of those. Really try to do this as naturally as you can. Know you most likely will go thru a depression as your mind adjust and explain to your loved ones what your about to go thru so they can help.

[marycarmel]

No need for shame, though our society does an injustice to the disease of addiction.  Shop for a doctor.  That is one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard.  We tend to forget our doctors work for us.  We need to work together.  My primary care is amazing.  She listens.  Get a consult and interview the doctor.  Go with your gut but try to get a referral from someone you trust.  I'm keeping you in my prayers.  For me, it was a slow process and I felt pretty miserable.  Taking care of 4 kids alone and my 85 year old dad nearly drove me to the brink.  I just kept putting one foot in front of the other.  Fentanyl was tough for me.  I had a lot of nausea and vomiting and my leg muscles were so weak.  Supplements helped a bit and I did easy meals or takeout.  And I told my kids and they really stepped up to the plate.  They also learned a valuable lesson on becoming informed about meds.  I never abused my meds but the physical withdrawal is the same.  My 18-year old son refused pain meds when he got 4 impacted wisdom teeth out and this year refused them for post surgery pain after tearing the meniscus in his knee.  Both doctors tried to talk him into percocets and I told them keep the script.  If he needs it, we'll call.  He iced and alternated Tylenol and Advil.

You'll get through this and come out stronger in the end.  Listen to those that have been down this path and have been successful.  They're  here to help.

[selfinduced]

WOW Long, It looks like you have stumbled on some caring member's that could have written your script (life if you will). First let me say I know that alone feeling while in this mess. Even as you say you have the support,love and concern of your family it IS up to you to get this job done. Trust me, If I could have begged , borrowed or stole to get someone to "just get me clean" I would have gladly done so but………this process one that we do need to do the work to get to the other side. I know you don't wanna hear this but your Dr.'s one by one falling off the radar is a hidden blessing. If you really think about it, how much longer could you continue at this rate on these meds? I have addiction all thru my family and one by one they ended up in prison (the lucky ones) or overdosing or dieting prematurely from all the havoc these pills did to their bodies (failed livers,early onset dementia). It just get's worse and you'll get in deeper. You have made the first step in reaching out. So proud there. From the amount your on opiate wise (4 pills a day), you WILL be fine to go c/t. Not without being uncomfortable, but you'll get thru. Can you go into a detox facility for just a short time to give you added structure and support.

[lulu747]

No I get it.  I had similar (though not as extreme) issues with my doctors in the past.  You gotta shop for the right one.  There are many doctors out there who would jump at the chance to help someone trying to reclaim their life from pills.  Now that you realize where you are at, I truly believe that the Universe will provide you with the help that you need.
I was on fentanyl too.  And oxy.  And hydromorphone.  And clonazepam, oxzazypam etc etc.  I got off one drug at a time.  I am almost off the benzos.  I am taking a very small dosage of dialaudid to manage my pain until surgery.
It's YOUR body and YOUR life.  Have you thought about aftercare?  Getting in a room with people who have been/or are where you are is an amazing experience.  It's like being on this forum but with eye contact, voice tonality, and hugs.  You can't beat it.
I highly recommend.
xo
Lu

[Longwaytogo]

You re insight and response is gold to me right now. Thank you sooo much. Can' t stop crying now but it's kind of a good cry if you get me. Bless your heart. This helps more than you can possibly know .

[Longwaytogo]

OMGoodness!  So sorry about all you've been going thru. You 've given me a lot  to think about .  Ever trusting a dr. Again? ....relly hard to enen consider.  28 yrs ago after c/t Valium 10 mg all day long found a shrink to deal w/ the depression that followed. He came highly recommended . 1 st thing he did was put me on Xanax. After 6 yrs and a morning appt. I went to the pharmacy for my refill. Was seeing him 3  x wk.  they told me he denied my rx. I'd just seen him and he never mentioned quitting or cutting back. Wouldn't take my frantic calls.  2 wks later he called . I never spoke to him I was so mad. Fast forward to my G.P. Of 20yrs. Soon as I told him I wanted off and asked for his help I never heard from him again. He wouldn't see me. Simultaneously I was seeing another shrink...I didn't know at the time but he was an addiction specialist as well. He's the one that added the fentanyl patch. Here we are
About 8 yrs later and his list gets pulled. Now I'm out on my own again. The pain mgt. dr  I was forced to see dropped dead and his office offered zero help . Apparently the universe insists I do this myself. I've never felt so alone sad and frustrated and betrayed. I'm glad it.s not like that for you.  Congrats on coming thru surgery so well. I know it's difficult on so many levels .  I no longer pray but will keep you in my heart.  

[lulu747]

Yes clonidine and Klonopin NOT the same thing.  Honey, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of.  We trust doctors, we have to, especially when we are in pain and feeling lost and desperate.  Think of this (as I had to) of an amazing opportunity to educate yourself, empower yourself, and become a stronger advocate for yourself.  What I've learned in the past decade of crazy medical struggles, surgeries, and numerous drugs, doctors and specialists is priceless.  I've learned to be my own best friend and advocate.
Please, no shame.  It's a totally useless thing.  I know how hard it is- when you wake up out of the epic drug fog and realize what your life has become.  But you are on the road to recovery and you have wonderful support and you are going to be just fine.  In fact, you're going to better than fine- you will get to a place where you aren't just surviving, but thriving.  Life has so many beautiful things in store for you.
Looking back I have some regrets still, some lingering shame, but overall I wouldn't take a single thing back.  Because it got me to where I am now- which is STRONG, compassionate, and free (:  My life is utterly transformed.  And even though I am dealing with a pretty horrific medical situation right now and have to take some pain meds to function until my surgery this summer....The dark days are over.  Knowledge is power.  And the struggle you are going through will lead you into a beautiful place.  You must treat yourself gently, with compassion and love.  You deserve it.
Lu

[marycarmel]

Clonidine is not the same as Klonopin.  Klonopin is an antianxiety med and can cause dependency or addiction.  Clonidine is an old blood pressure med and it's been found to be a big help with withdrawal symptoms, as explained above.  Clonidine can also help with nerve pain.  I was prescribed it for pain.

The only slight worry with Clonidine is that it can sometimes cause rebound hypertension  and your doctormwill keep an eye on that.

[Longwaytogo]

Really appreciate your earlier response. Wish I felt I deserve the love and support . So ashamed my family sees me like this; or anyone else for that matter. I hate it!  I'm supposed to stronger than this . Hate being weak and less than I feel I should be. Hate not being able to function. Feel like I'm letting everyone around me down. Keep telling myself this too shall pass but it's difficult to believe sometimes.

[marycarmel]

You've done great!  And you've been given great advice.  I know how angry you are.  I also felt betrayed by my pain doctors.  I asked all the right questions and always talked of my fear of addiction.  I was overly concerned as I had been married to an alcoholic/addict and also worked in the court system and saw the damage addiction caused.

I was on a ton of meds:  Fentanyl 75 mcg every 48 hours, 40 to 65 mg oxycodone every four hours, 10 mg Ambien every night, Ativan, 90 mg Cymbalta, 900 mg of gabapentin and maybe more.  They kept throwing meds at me and it wasn't helping my pain.  (I had 9 surgeries after a failed joint replacement.  I wound up with rsd and nerve damage.  I also had other health issues and severe arthritis.)  

There came a time that I wanted off the meds to see where my pain really was.  My pain doc then insisted I wouldn't be able to deal with the pain.  (I also had done PT, OT, stellate ganglion blocks, lidoderm infusions and more.)

I tried to come off everything CT which was disastrous.  With the help of this forum, I tapered down one med at a time.  I went a little too fast but finally got done with it.  It's sometimes hard to remember that you didn't get on all the meds at such high doses overnight and it's unrealistic to think we can just jump off overnight.

At the very end of my taper, I opened up to my primary care and she was so supportive. There came a time that my pain got really bad and was affecting my blood pressure.  Despite two BP meds, it kept going up.  My primary wanted me to see a pain doc and I didn't want to.  She eventually convinced me.  Both of them recommended going back on pain meds to get my Bp down.  I kept resisting but finally agreed.  This time, though, my two doctors worked with me.  They only put me on a low dose and would help me taper when my BP was at a safer level.

I had just started my taper when I was diagnosed with a brain aneurysm.  All the doctors said to stop the taper until the aneurysm was addressed.  I had the brain surgery three weeks ago.  My final appointment in follow-up with the brain surgeon (I hope) is June 19th.  I'm hoping  I'll be cleared to start my taper again and also be cleared to drive etc.  This time I'll have the support of mqy two doctors and I know I need to be patient and take my time.

I know it's hard to trust again but there are doctors who will work with you.  Good luck.  Take your time and you'll reach your goal before you knknoow it.

[Longwaytogo]

I 've actually everyone I know. I' m continually surprised at the love and support from my husband (42 yrs and counting) ,and truthfully find myself apologizing for my behavior. My son 35 just moved back for awhile and I can't believe how terrific he's been. My daughter's in Ugh Mo. ( I miss her every day does what she can long distance. I am truly so blessed in that respect,makes it hard to realize it's all on me!  Can't even whine about my family. Ditto w/ my close friends. One friend decided to cut back her Xanax because of me. darn no one to blame but me. Is clonidine the same thing as clonipine ? I've used it before but was afraid it might be worse than Xanax.

[lulu747]

Hey I would strongly suggest NOT upping your benzo intake.  I did this during detox and I REALLY wish I hadn't- because here I am nearly 3 years later and still tapering.
The best thing you can do as Jinx mentioned if you're not getting medical support is go to the ER.  Tell them you are trying to detox off your narcotics and want to eventually taper off the benzos.  They will prescribe you a BP medication called clonidine which is commonly used in opiate detox.  I've done two c/t- one without clonidine, the second with.  My symptoms were WAY easier to handle with the clonidine and I was on WAY higher a dose than the first time.  It really helps to keep your heart rate down and therefore helps with the sweating, anxiety, tummy issues, and hot and cold flashes.  Just get a BP cuff and monitor your BP yourself.
With the benzos stay at the dose you are at for at least a month or two after getting off the opiates.  Then you can evaluate where you are, hopefully consult with a NEW doctor, and set up a taper plan that works for you.  They will probably switch you to a benzo with a longer half life (this is what they did for me) and then taper you at a comfortable pace.
You've been on these drugs for a long time and it will take you a long time to get off and be comfortable because your brain/body needs to adjust every time you drop.
The detox off the opiates is not fun and a special kind of hell, but it is totally doable if you have the right tools in your arsenal, and the right support.
I'm sorry if I missed this, but have you told anyone about what's happening?  Do you have someone that can hold your pills and dole them out at appropriate intervals?  This will stop you from upping your benzos which you will REALLY want to do.
They don't actually help that much.  The clonidine will work well in conjunction.  Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint, and you need to pace yourself.
And man, be PROUD of yourself.  Getting off meds is so hard when you've been on them for such a long time.  For me it was 6 years on opiates and nearly 15 on benzos.
You can do this.
I am rooting for you...
Lu

[Longwaytogo]

Thanks for checking. Ever since the quake.of '94 (extreme trauma) I've held back and kept a 3 month emergency supply of all my meds. Down to the wire as I ve been stuck these last few days and am running out. Scared to jump at 4  for so many reasons...some even valid. Procrastination and over thinking  things are two of my fortes.afraid to up the benzo s cause I know how hard it is to get off them. Or does it really matter if it gets me off the last opiate?? Please give me your opinion . I really want to be done w/ this part of it but am scared sh...less. Been on them for 40 + yrs? benzo s even longer. Osyh!

[selfinduced]

Hi Long, Just checking on you. I was wondering. Do you think you could have your friend hold your med's and dispense them? Also, you may have already mentioned, but is your current Dr. rx'ing the benzo's now? The amount of opiate you are on will not be a problem to jump off, but can cause you anxiety that will have you mindlessly upping your benzo's. Just know you will have some discomfort with this process, but nothing to be feared. Keep posting for support. I know you have this in you.

[Jinx_777]

the first doctor I ever seen for back pain would literally pull out his RX pad and just say 'what do you want'.  he did not check me, didn't listen to my heart, NOTHING, just asked what I wanted him to write.  thank God that I was naive to pain meds and only wanted relief from the pain.  years later he lost his license for only a few months because 6 of his patients had died of overdoses.  

the doctor you had reminds me a lot of my 1 st doctor.  they are not the norm, i promise you that.  usually, it is very hard to get actual help for pain management because most fear the DEA.  don't be afraid to go to the ER and tell them the situation.  they will be more than happy to point you in the right direction.  they deal with drug seekers daily and would embrace someone coming in trying to get help  getting off of them.  

be very careful with the xanax because the withdrawal from that can be dangerous.  .5 may not seem high, but it actually is in comparison to valium.
take one class of medications at a time if you can.  get off the opiates and then tackle the benzo.  

[lulu747]

Your friend is right.  One drug at a time, you didn't get here overnight.  There are a lot of terrible docs out there FOR SURE, but there are also some great ones.  I'd look into a doc who specializes in addiction issues.  You need some help here.  I had to see three different doctors before I found one who could/was willing to help me taper off benzos.  Benzos are not like opiates which can be stopped or tapered without too much long term issues.  A benzo taper not done properly can give you years of problems and YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS.  You are fighting to get your life back, and you deserve to.  You must set yourself up for success.
I feel for you friend, and send you much love and support on your journey...
Lu

[Longwaytogo]

In my heart I know you are right.  At this time I won't even consider a drs help. In my exp. they are all arrogant greedy covering their tushes in it for themselves  #%# My mad has been keeping me focused on quitting right now. My friend keeps telling me one drug at I time; this didn't get here overnight.  It's just more than scary thinking which drug comes next .thanks for being here. It's calming to know you're not alone.

[selfinduced]

I do think with the different med's your taking , it would be a huge benefit to try to get a DR. on board. The amount of xanex is significant and it would ease your mind greatly to have someone on board that understand's your desire to get off all these med's and stay off. If your like I was you will keep playing pharmacist and adjusting the med's to ease your symptoms. This is where a Dr. can help guide you. Keep posting. I know you'll get thru this.

[Longwaytogo]

Sorry. Meant drs. Not .medhelp.org.

[Longwaytogo]

Med.help got me into this mess. No way I' m going back.  Not mentally prepared to raise hell w/ my drs yet but when I'm able...in a very fragile mental state trying to find my balance.  

[jerry4664]

Thats a lot of meds and great job for kicking so many but soon you will have to ditch the norcos as well to be totally free... Not sure whats up with your doc but seems like BS to me after all that time I would hope he cares for you and would want to make sure your ok?? most docs perscribe meds for a problem and when you go against there wishes maybe some anger or resentment is out there I'm not sure but give him/her a day or so and if no call back make an appt and go find out whats up.

[Longwaytogo]

I 've been on 4/day for the last 8 days. Those are just the opiates.  I still need to get off Xanax ( been breaking .5 s in half ) and soma ( breaking off sm.pieces)  30 yrs ago my shrink replaced Valium (30 tens) w/ Xanax . 5 mgs 4-6 x day. I know that's not a huge dose but I ve been dependent for so long. I'm overwhelmed at the task at hand but I am  determined never to rely on a dr. For my well being. Shrink that prescribed the Xanax also left me hanging. My pain mgt. dr dropped dead at 34. He had his own agenda. Kept giving me more. I never asked.  Guess there are some abandonment issues as well. I feel so screwed but refuse to go back.  My mad keeps me going. But now w/ all the different wd symptoms I can't think clearly anymore . Thanks for the response and the lift it gave me. It's nice not to feel so alone.

[OpenMind24hours]

I agree with Jinx, find medical help with this. I think You've done great so far; to come down from all of that pain medication to 4 norco a day. Do what you've been doing because pretty much you're stuck; it's all you can do for now unless you find a doctor to help you with all of this. WD raises BP a doctor will help you with that.

Look down below on this page at the Thomas Recipe. Do what you can to get those items. They will help you with your final withdrawal stage. Get Epsome Salts. Hot baths will be your ticket to relieve anxiety, muscle aches, restlessness and sleep problems. Expect sleeplessness for awhile. Don't fight it with OTC drugs, go with it until it happens naturally if you can.