good thought guys i really appreciate it
Dude- you may barf when I say this but you just explained why you're feeling restless w/o realizing it. You are "dry." You haven't gone to meetings or talked to a sponsor. You are only in your head. That's where the crazy is. There are so so many folks I know who are way older than you who've had 10 years, 20 years clean and happy. They stop participating in the program because they feel "fine." Then "just a drink on my birthday" sounds like a good idea. And oh boy, we can really make a convincing argument for that one beer. Or one pill. Then you have one on your birthday. Then you think, hmmm, I did it, next time, I'll have another one. Then, hey I got this, and you have 2. etc etc. Until, hey I'm buzzed lemme just do ONE LINE. Then it's over. I hate to tell you this but your thinking is so dang typical. It's relapse 101. I was gonna ask you why you aren't sharing that in the rooms. And you aren't going to the rooms. OF COURSE you want to drink.
As someone said above. You can go ahead and try it. See what happens. It won't happen in one nite or one week. Do you wanna be on your 41st birthday trying to get clean again?
The reason you said you quit drugs was because you were u happy. Now you are happy and thinking about using a drug. You asked for reasons not to use alcohol, because you already feel happy. Just because you CAN take a drug and control it, doesn't make it good for you. Now I agree all alkaloids are alkaloids, but those alkaloids react with different parts of the brain. Whike coffee is an addictive drug, it has a very different affect on neurotransmission than methamphetamine, PCP, Heroin, or Alcohol. The side affects of compulsive use are obviously less also. I believe you coukd control it, for a time and maybe forever, but you are happy, why gamble for happier.
So, I am not a member of 12 step groups anymore, but I have been. While I do agree some of the program is too rigid for me, I do not think of total sobriety as a 12 step idea. I also find that people huff nicotine and swill coffee like addicts in our local meetings. Where I live, many think of tobacco, coffee, pot are all okay, not healthy, but the consequences are mostly on the user, not any and everyone, like heroin, meth, or alcohol. It's not as much about if we can do it, it's if we are willing to pay the potential consequences. It's Russian roulette with the stronger drugs. Most people are willing to pay the price of peeing extra for the coffee buzz, but are not willing to pay the price of crashing a car for an alcohol buzz. It's a crap shoot if you can control it, I say try it if you want, I've seen addicts drink occasionally. It does happen.
More what I would suggest is looking into other forms of recovery. I know I got sick of hearing about and thinking about the past. A major reason I don't go. Maybe rather than alcohol, join a gym to socialize. Racket bAll, what do you like to do? Alcohol just makes us feel more social, as we sit and do nothing. Sobriety makes us actually socialize, we have to do something else together, and NA is not enough for me. Maybe it's not enough for you. What else coukd fulfill the role you are visualizing alcohol playing?
The drink bone is connected to the drug bone~
its all perception, that hooray could also be the feeling you get when you realize that the behavior you describe (buying a house, stable job, happiness)
is that of a emotionally secure , good member of a community, .
you just can not get that from alcohol, although it does make you feel warm and fuzzy a little, if you can stop at a couple, but after tasting the sun with other things that might prove to be hard.
That's real talk I'm a bit worried about that although through what I've read there's a line between drinking and intoxication I do not want to become intoxicated and in all honesty I don't know what I want our culture kind of molds us to believe a legal drink is the final hooray to being an adult and I think that's what I've been captivated with. Not the actual need or want to drink....
are you abstinent or sober? I believe sober thinking isnt questioning what substance you might not have a problem with, its all perception you probably know that, but are you at peace or are you lookin to manipulate how you feel?
i think it says in the big book , if you dont think you have a problem try some controlled drinking, if it dont work come back, .
the problem i find with alcohol specifically is ,,somehow it changes my thinking and pretty soon there's a needle in my arm and i dont remember puttin it there,.
It's your choice to go or not to go to meetings. It is an individual thing. I am glad to hear you are sober and staying that way. You should be proud of yourself. You can do whatever to takes to stay clean. There is no right or wrong. Just don't use. Best of luck. Let us know how youa re doing. there is always someone here to chat with.
I respect your response but I came here for something different I could go to a million different meetings to hear that or just call the guy I called a sponser once upon a time. I don't do meetings.... Still sober..... I literally only really hang out with myself..... Still sober why because I love myself and sure I have lapse in judgment with myself so I bounce ideas off of other people and get mixed responses and that helps I'm still sober and after this thread I decided I'm not going to drink why idk cause I chose this path and pride myself in being able to do so with out a room full of people telling me the only reason I haven't gotten high is because of them. 12 steps are cool and I get the point but I wont buy in
As addicts..if we are inside our own head we are in bad company. We just make bad decisions.One of the purposes of aftercare is to get around people just like you and to listen and have blind faith that what happened to them will happen to you. It is my opinion--and it is just an opinion-that your disease is screaming to you and getting ready for a relapse. We relapse mentally, spiritually and emotionally before we pick up a drug. I think you are well on your way. You are trying to justify having a beer when you know darn well where it will lead. One is too many and a thousand is never enough. How about that for a 12 step program cliché.
It sounds like you are still looking for that good feeling and think you will find it in a pill, a needle, a pipe or a bottle. That good feeling is in you..not in a beer bottle. You seem to be using your friends and their lifestyle as your excuse. You miss the good times and all that. I know this because I have done it and it doesn't work. How about another cliché...the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Sound familiar?
I am glad you found your way here honey and I hope you stick around and listen to these good folks. I wish you the best and hope that you make the right decisions.
EvolverU you right back at you. You said some things that really made me look at why I'm here why I'm doing what I'm doing with all of this. I just want both sides of the story I want some to say "I did and I'm ok it's not all it's cracked up to be but I do it" but I also agree that I'm early on and this point is a high risk time for relapse and what's the point in relapse there really isn't one I've been drunk before I've had a drink Idk I just wanted to have a chat with people and listen to what they had to say instead of just slowly convincing myself one way or the other because I don't always have the best ideas i rarely have good ones I'll keep this up in the air for now and won't act on it
Man, I can really relate to what you say! :)
I hear you on the stubbornness & on wanting to prove something to yourself (& possibly others). What I've come to realize though, is that the most powerful (& challenging) form of 'control' ironically comes in the form of an acceptance of where were at -- what's realistic & good for us & facing down that 'black dog' (our habits) when it comes panting in our ears. If we don't listen & we insist on trying the same old things, we aren't growing (& I'm all about growth -- just like you). Instead, we're throwing away all our potential -- all the possibilities before us -- to focus on this old 'no-winner' -- 'Hammer in my hand still pounding on a screw' (a little musical quote for ya, there :)
Thanks for your response. You may not realize it, but you've helped me to today. You sound like you've got an excellent attitude & have gained in strength & wisdom. Good on you, my friend! Keep it up. :)
I did go to rehab to appease my parents I lived in sober living for a little over a year but I decided I need to quit everything in jail and I remember making the decision on my own. No preaching just idk the party kind of just stopped for me. I always lived my life in a party that was never going to stop and then I realized the party stopped way before that and never looked back.
Have you ever seen the cat scans or MRIs of an addicts brain bs one that is not. That is scientific proof there that things change in the whole chemistry of your brain etc.
I don't think think addiction is a disease as cancer or strep throat is. But I do think there is definitely a mental/psychological aspect to it.
I gave learned that some things you just can't rationalize. What AA teaches works for many. And for the hard core adficts, total abstinence of drugs and alcohol is the only way they can stay sober. And constant working of the steps and involvement in AA. You can't step away Bc that is when you become lax in it all and can slip agsin.
Now AA is not the only way. I have never hone. Not bc I don't agree with it but bc it is not what I am comfortable doing or being at. Plus I have 2 children and no one to care for them if I go. My story is stupidly starting heroin then prescription drugs to stop. I used them to taper down and quit bc I could not do cold turkey.
But I have been told I am not your typical addict. I know a couple who said I sm done and never drank or used again. No help, no cravings or anything. But they are very few.
You are at about 2 years now. That is when many start getting comfortable in their sobriety and lives. And thoughts start creeping in. Not thoughts of using or craving, but thoughts of hey I'm alright now. I can do this. This was never an issue so occasional drinks won't make a difference.
But in many cases it is your mind tricking you into a false security. Bc even years later, the temptation is still there. I haven't smoked in 12 years but I still get hit with thoughts of having one. I don't do it but the thoughts st times are instence. Same with heroin. That is whyso anted up relapsing years down the line. One leads to more. And they discover they can't handle it.
You're very young. You will have to control this for the rest of your life. 2 years is awesome but still new. You have to just take it as what it is. You are recovering and will be the rest of your life. And you will have instances that will test you in many ways.
I think this is one of those times.
Question- when you stopped was it easy or did you struggle? Did you go to rehab? AA has worked for you. Let it keep doing that.
EvolverU way to go that was what I needed to read! Let me put it this way if there was a test you took and the doctor came back and was like either "you can drink here and there" or "you can't at all" I would listen and if my test came back you can drink here and there I wouldn't immediately go to the bar and have on with the boys. Why first that would mess with my gym schedule and my diet second I have things to do tomorrow morning and because it holds a stigma. I still think to this day the only reason I did drugs and IVd them especially was to perpetuate a feeling a self worth I set upon myself to get back at my family and it was the sweetest revenge! I don't want that anymore idk what I want I love my routine I make music I have fun I'm captivated in things that I do and want to grow as much as possible. But if I took a sip of alcohol and the program was right and Id be on my *** in no time then damn I guess I'm condemned. But if it didn't wouldnt that be empowering. To know you had control and you chose this life! Idk I hate to think I'm powerless it seems counterproductive I want to take a sip of a beer to prove people wrong to prove the program wrong in all honesty and I'm 21 its hard in this culture
Jugglin I apprcieate your response
Hi there :)
Hat's off to you for kicking the IV drugs to the curb! (fellow ex-IV'er here).
I know that it hurts to think about the things we did in the past while we were using but you have MUCH to be proud of & grateful for! It sounds like you put the brakes on & got your life together @ a very young age. Well done, you! :) I can relate to so much of what you say. I've found that Life is a real trade-off -- all the more so without drugs.
Like, Spider said, it's working right? Let me give you a little perspective here:
I tried meetings, counseling, etc. @ many different junctures in my long 'career' as a serious addict. Unfortunately, they didn't work for me so I was forced to choose less traditional ways of staying clean. I wish to hell that NA/AA had worked for me 'cause it took me a lot longer & I had to get really creative without it. What you describe -- disliking the fact that you have to attend -- the whole 'do-or-die-dogma-thing', is not that uncommon a complaint. The social aspect you describe is also familiar! I have a dear friend who feels the same way but continues to go because, as much as he dislikes certain aspects of it, when he stops, things don't go well. Like they say: 'Take what you need from it & leave the rest'. Many things in life are mixed blessings & we have to find positive ways of accepting this Truth. I've also come to understand that it takes years to heal both neurally & in terms of coping skills/life-adjustments -- especially from the kind of serious poly-abuse we're talking about here. I've got just about the same clean time you have (2 years & 3 mos.) & am still trying to adjust & accept -- trying to find a new balance. I too, find myself more & more 'introverted'. I think we have to be very careful, though of 'isolating' & being to much in our heads.
I'm going to shoot from the hip here because though I completely understand your dissatisfaction & have sympathy for your questions & mindset, I'm reading that you're looking for a 'yeah, it's cool -- have a drink. What's the harm?' answer. God, I wish it were True. I wish it were okay for folks like us but it's not. Comparing caffeine with alcohol is apples & oranges. Sure, you can argue that they're both powerful drugs but their actions are completely different in terms of pleasure pathways. Though caffeine may be addictive, there's a reason there aren't support groups to get off of Java (although, who knows? We live in a crazy world:). It doesn't destroy lives, our health, impair our judgment & sap our will the way that booze does. It doesn't make you feel bad about yourself. It doesn't stop us from getting things accomplished. It's not considered a gateway to reuse other drugs -- the list goes on.
What makes the whole alcohol question doubly difficult is that it's legal & so much social stuff is built around it. I know (for myself @ least) that because we've had to cut out 'drug friends' bars & 'social' drinking can be a strong draw. It's seductive. I certainly struggled with it after I got clean. I was stubborn about the idea that I could have a couple of beers. I found that when things were rough, it wasn't just a few & though I didn't drink everyday, it became more frequent & interfered with just about every aspect of my life. I do know a few people who got clean off pills & are able to do this but no one with the sort of history you & I have. Your very question, tells me you're restless (which I completely relate to) & are looking for a release & a possible excuse to get this release via alcohol. I guess it's time to consider healthier ways to achieve this. Is there anything you've wanted to do/try that might give you pleasure outside of your regular grind? When things get narrow & stale, it's time to think outside the box & adjust our game plan -- otherwise..well, you know the drill. :)
Please, let us know what you're thinking & feeling. Thanks for posting your first question. It was an excellent one -- very important! Hold Fast, you've come so far :)
Just sharing my story with you (and the story of many others). I fought hard and quit the vicodin. I'm a mom, a wife, a professional, great home, great kids, great hubby. I'm twice your age and drank socially my entire adult life. After I quit the meds, I started to drink more. And guess what? I realized that the drinking was starting to fill that void that the vics filled. This was gradual. Never intentional. It just progressed. I'm not unusual or special...this is what our addict brains do. Do I wish it were different? HeII yes. But it isn't. I learned it the hard way. You are doing awesome - why play with fire? Just because? IMO, not worth the risk.
You are at a threshold. You have grown and matured. Don't take steps backwards.
Keep moving forward.
Wish you the best!
My point with the coffee thing was not matter how you look at it even coffee changes ones perception of reality and when I drank that cup
Of coffe in the evening I changed my normal perception of reality why don't I chase that why don't I do it all the time?
Drug is a drug is a drug as AA would say and caffiene is a drug hyocritically used in AA same with nicotine. The theory behind it is you won't see many drastic consequences resinate from these particular substances. My main point in this whole thing is why don't people question the compulsive use of drugs and alcohol to be more than just the compulsive use of drugs and alcohol? Why isn't there more behind the scenes? I had a weird child hood and I acted out more when my parents divorced and my dad was sleeping around on my mom blah blah blah but couldn't this have something to do with it? I worked through the issues I had with my parents in cognitive group therapy so if the reason I'm going out for a drink is different than it was before the outcome is still the same? Doesn't make sense not to mention the science behind the AA program is 1930s science and we've come a long way since then. I don't know I still apprciate the feed back this is why I'm here!
Yikes sorry for all my typos!!! Darn phone.
I may be wrong but I think comparing coffee/caffeine to drinking alcohol is like apples to potatoes.
Yes people get addicted to caffeine or sugar etc. But it isn't like being an alcoholic. With AA it is all or nothing. You can't teach or promote sobriety in any different way. How can you say one thing to one person and snother to the next. The message has to be the same. And it has worked.
Now not all drug users are alcoholics. Many hardly drink. And vice versa. But if you are one with an "addictive personality" you could've both.
You said you don't go out much or socialize do goung to the bar doesn't sound like your thing. And drinking st home by yourself well isn't all that much fun. Believe me, drinks my really isn't all that it is hyped to be. If you like the taste of beer, you can buy non alcoholic types. And you can mix a virgin cocktail. And the hard stuff just leads to trouble.
So do you really want to risk it?
If all I wanted was for people to justify my actions there's plenty of forums that do that. I want every side of the story not just one side I want to weight action vs consequence everyone treats this as a black and white thing with no middle ground and I refuse to believe that! I don't believe it's a disease I think it's a choice the same way I chose to step outside of that life because I wasn't happy. I believe people will always chose what makes them happiest and at the time of drug use it seems like the best choice for said happiness. Once you start to realize instant gratification will never make you as happy as something you work towards there's a change there. I don't want drink to cover up some emotional distress I have because I worked through all of it. Most of my drug use stemmed from getting revenge on my parents because they "****** me up" but I chose that everytime.