Those are a LOT of meds to be taking as you get through this.. and they are a bit concerning and some are extremely addictive (valium and (?) Xanax, why both?) - and the kratom. It's great that you've decided to quit the opiates, but I'm concerned about your plan. Those meds can easily become a new addiction.
Read some of the other posts from folks who used kratom during detox, it was not a good experience for the majority. And Xanax and/or valium? EXTREMELY hard to get off of those, and the recovery from a benzo takes forever.
atthebeach, thank you for your responses, it means a lot to people in desperate situations to have someone on their side.
If my mom lived closer I would have done the taper method having her hold the meds. She is a great person and I have always been able to tell her anything. She knows a lot about addiction since she had a father and a husband who were alcoholics and she went through a lot of 12 step therapy to deal with co-dependency and being in a dysfunctional family. My parents divorced a long time ago when I was really young. I am 36 now.
I could have my ex-GF hold the drugs but I dont know how comfortable I feel with that. It doesnt matter right now anyway, I threw out the DHC yesterday so I couldnt be tempted. So today is day 1 for me. I have a script for adderall and it really helps me since I am already used to the medication, it still hits the dopamine receptors so it helps with the mental part which we all know is the worst. If you have never taken adderall I dont think I would recommend it during w/d because the comedown is really hard if your not used to it. I hated Adderall, I honestly dont abuse it at all, it does help but once I get off DHC/opiates I am going to stop taking it and find other ways to deal with it. I was fine before adderall, I was found myself really unmotivated with every job, I was always tired, I kept jumping jobs thinking a change would be better. Since the Adderall I have been able to do so much more in my career, although I would never recommend someone to take it unless they absolutely needed it.
I have Chloidine, valium/xanax, lots of loperamide, weed (it helps a lot for some people), vitamins, herbal supps, fridge full of food and liquids, kratom (ONLY during tough times), bacfolen, and lexapro (SSRI). I have done a ton of research and have stockpiled anything and everything that is supposed to make withdrawal easier. I also try to watch documentaries on people who overcome challenges in their life because of diseases that they suffer, drug addictions, etc. I find it makes my situation seem so simple compared to what I see others accomplish. I wrote down chores for each day of my detox to do, Moday clean living room and kitchen, Tuesday do laundry go to DMV to update license, Wednesday work on restoring a vehicle I have, etc. A regime I have found makes the days go by and keeps your mind distracted. People do make the withdrawals at least 50% worse just by thinking about it, its such a mental challenge more than anything else.
I wish I had access to the medicine that actually cleans the opiates off your receptors and forces you into withdrawal immediately. I would rather just spend day 1 puking and feeling horrible if I knew I would start feeling better by day 2. I hate the waiting game, you start feeling kinda low on Day 1 but you havent even really begun withdrawing. You basically have to wait until Day 4 to tell yourself you are finally on the downslope. I find that is the worst part, is the waiting.
To answer your question, I live in the US, particularly in the midwest in a smaller city but not a small town per say. There is some places in my town to help but my insurance doesnt cover it and I really dont want to go anywhere in my hometown. I have lived here long enough and would be afraid I would run into a nurse or someone I knew and rumors might spread about me having a problem with pain pills. I dont mind going to aftercare once I get clean, I have no problem admitting I am an addict, but I have a top security clearance and a high paying job and dont want to jeopardize that.
The one thing I have been doing is waiting to take the pills until later in the day, basically as if it was after work. I smoked cigarettes a long time ago in my beginning years of college. I remember I quit really easy by first quitting smoking while driving. That was a big step and after that the rest came easy, however I also played collegiate sports so smoking killed my endurance and I had to stop. However, the same logic could be applied to this. If you quit taking it when you wake up then essentially you are starting to not depend on it to function at work. Even if you take it when you get done its still better than using it to completely function. Its kinda like people that smoke weed once the day is done and its their time to relax at night, I personally find nothing wrong with that. However, I do still find it wrong to do that with opiates, its just a method of kicking, getting yourself use to not needing it to do your responsibilities.
Anyways I have chatted enough, thanks again for responding. I will keep an update on my detox and offer any advice I find helps.
do you have anyone you could confide in? keeping the secret will keep you sick. if you confide in someone who is close to you they can help you with accountability and it will help lift a huge weight off your shoulders.
you mentioned your mom and that she lives a few hours from you. is it possible to enlist her help. even if you went to stay there to help you detox. she could lessen the blow and help you taper. is she strong and healthy enough to help you. would you accept her help?
if you don't mind me asking how old you are?
isolating yourself from your friends and those you know is obviously not a good thing. you need to get back into the gym and into a different routine.
find another gym in another town to go to.
possibly a new hobby, new friends, a new routine, church, something other than what you have done in the past. so as not to repeat the same destructive patterns.
are you in the uk? to be honest I don't remember what we paid when my husband went to the detox but we are in the states, so I am sure the price tag varies from place to place.
if you don't enlist your mom or a friend you don't think you would be strong enough to do cold turkey at home by yourself if you were prepared with the things you needed to help lighten the withdrawals?
Oh and I didnt call my insurance company but looked up my coverage online and it looks like it covers up to 40% in network. I have called a few facilities and it sounds like a week will cost about $10k which is crazy.
I have been taking Lexapro on and off for years. SSRIs dont really "make me happy", for me they just lessen how much I stress out about certain situations. They don't do much for just everyday depression but I do notice that when I come across something that would usually really bother me, it tends to make it more controllable. I started taking Lexapro years before Tramadol, and I still take it now.
I know tram has the unique SSRI properties which is why it can be a tough withdrawal. I have "detoxed" off an SSRI though and it isnt really anything like coming off opiates or benzos. I usually dont even notice it until I have stopped for at least 1-2 weeks, but I don't consider it anything more than a bit annoying at times.
When I started taking tramadol I wasnt really depressed from a certain event or anything, I just felt there was more to life. The one thing that likely had some affect was that I did a lot of work overseas right before that. When working overseas I always had a purpose in life, I was doing it to make money for my future. When I finally got back to the US I guess I felt there was a void in my life, there wasnt anything to look forward to, nothing in life to get excited about. This guy at my gym that was taking every opiate under the sun told me about tramadol and how he uses it to keep sickness away when he runs out. After doing too little research it seemed pretty mild, it wasnt controlled or a narcotic. I ordered them and the first time I took 2 pills I couldnt believe how good I felt. It was better than vicodin. For the 3-4 months I was taking them I was doing all this work to my house, painting, redoing rooms, but I was spending money like I had an endless supply. Thats one thing about tramadol, you make some really poor decisions on it, especially financial.
Anyways, once I found DHC is when tramadol turned into a maintenance type drug, I only took it when I ran out of the DHC.
I have tried to taper, but tapering for an addict is an excuse so they can prolong taking it. If you have the will power to taper, then I wouldnt even classify that person as an addict, that is someone that got addicted to the drug for legitimate reasons and likely followed the dosage instructions but still became physically addicted. I have to do it C/T, I know myself too well.
My depression now is mainly because I let this drug completely change me. Like I mentioned, I was a fitness freak, I used to body build all the time and was known for it, most of my friends are all into working out. I dont even go to that gym anymore because I am too embarrassed that I let myself get so out of shape compared to where I was. I know people will wonder why I let myself get to this point. Thats a main reason why I dont go out much anymore and have become a troll. I blame it on my job, I tell people I have been working so much that it interferes with my gym time. It sounds vain but it was all I knew for 15 years, that was a big part of my life and I just quit.
I have always had underlying depression, even since I was a kid. I used to joke that if I had an endless supply of pain killers that I would be an addict. Unfortunately, that endless supply happened once I found tramadol. I havent ever went to the streets for drugs, or try to get them from doctors, I just havent had to because the drugs I take are easily obtainable on the web.
Anyways, sorry for rambling. I was mainly just curious about different detoxing options besides cold turkey at home. I have off a certain amount of days from work and I dont want to cave in and waste them. If I go to a treatment center then at least I have to go through the physical part, hopefully once that is over I can stay off with outpatient aftercare while I am working. I just would like to hear some advice about 5-10 day detox centers, or rapid detox, or even the ibogaine treatment. I know its all expensive but in the long run I would spend the money on drugs anyways, so I am willing to pay a few thousand if it gets me clean in time to go back to work.
where are you located? did you call your insurance company and ask them for a detox center? that would be the call I would first make?
have you tried to take anti depressants when you got clean?
many people have used them during the first months after detox but the problem is they also replace your endrophins ,serotonins and dopamines when if and when you stop them you are basically in the same boat as after detox from opiates.
where you depressed before you started opiates? or do you think your depression is only because of how you feel about your life now with opiates?
as you see the pattern continues, it is a merry go round until you decide you are jumping off and staying off. there are always new stresses and a need for more motivation as you have found it is only temporary and you become a slave. learning to deal with life and its up and downs in a new way is crucial.
you know tram has an anti depressant component in it? you have had depression because of where your life is. of course we have regrets, there are consequences for our actions, we cant go back and change the past we can only change our future by the choices we now make.
can you do a taper? that you be the easiest on your mind and body. it is hard for many to do.
how much trams are you now taking? you are on 900mg of codeine?
atthebeach, if you dont mind me asking, how much did the detox center cost? Originally thats what I was looking into but everyplace I find costs a fortune and my insurance only looks to cover maybe 40%.
If you have any suggestions on places I would love to hear about them. I basically have off until Mon, July 1, so if I could get admitted by Mon that would give me 6-7 days. After that I can do an outpatient therapy close to home.
The hardest part for me is doing it alone. I live by myself and I havent told many people about what I am going through, although I am sure some of my friends wonder. I work from home for the most part, I am not married and on the breaks with my GF (until I get over all this). I dont have much support close by. I looked into rehab but I cant be away from my job that long and its expensive even with insurance. I can get outpatient aftercare help easily, but finding a place to help you through the actual detox is hard unless you have time and $$. The depression is what gets me, I dont care if I have the runs, I just cant take the depression on top of the depression I have been dealing with for so long.
This all began with tramadol, I was taking up to 15 pills a night just to "liven" the evening. After 3-4 months I knew I was becoming an addict, I got scared and just quit everything. I didnt take any benzos, smoke any weed, nothing but OTC products during the cold turkey withdrawal. I lasted about a month until a bunch of stuff came up for work and I "needed" some motivation. I fell in the same way of thinking as everyone else and here I am now.
Since then its gotten worse, I added Adderall to the daily routine and I now take the DHC or Tramadol when I wakeup to function. I wake up with severe anxiety every morning, I have nightmares about all this all the time. I dont get anything from Tramadol anymore because of tolerance, its basically a backup to keep me from getting sick. Just knowing I am addicted has caused so much depression for me, I will lay in bed for days. I dont get high and go out and have fun, I get high but still lay around feeling depressed because I think about all I have done to myself and how I still have to somehow get off it all without losing my job and reputation.
Aftercare is cheap and widely available around here. Plus, I have no problem admitting I am an addict, I dont live in a fairy tale, I have grown up around addiction and my mother used to take me to her Al Anon meetings as a kid because my dad was an alcoholic. My mom knows about all of this, but I not to talk about it too much with her, plus she lives a few hours away.
I just want to get past that first hurdle, and I am willing to pay the $$ because I dont have many times where I will have another break from my job like I do now (I took off yesterday until next Friday). I dont have a typical desk job, I always have stuff to accomplish, timelines to meet, its not a routine type job where I do the same thing over and over and dont really use my brain too much. I am basically an independent technology consultant, I am constantly interacting with clients.
The last time I tried to quit was just over a weekend a couple weeks ago. I made it to day 3 without any opiates or adderall but I remember from the last time that it doesnt truly kick in until Days 3 and 4. I had to work on Monday and ended up caving. The two days I didnt take anything were pretty brutal mentally, I think it was mainly because I stopped adderall as well as the opiates and I am used to both. If I end up doing this by myself I will continue with the adderall and focus on the opiates. I have quit adderall before without a lot of effort, you dont have any physical pain, just kinda tired and cloudy.
I just wish detox facilities werent so expensive, insurance doesnt even cover half and most places will bill you $20k-30k for a 2 week stay. What war on drugs is our government fighting? Maybe they should look into the outrageous prices of rehab facilities instead of just busting bob and joe for dealing some weed.
th rapid detox, waissman methods are very dangerous. there have been cases of death associated with them.
no you cant detox within 3 days and be totally better. when you leave those places you still have to continue to detox at home, the toxins are still there and need to come out. only time will heal.....
you could do a 3 day detox at a hospital or detox center where they administer suboxone for a few days, my husband did that. but he was still sick when he came home for quite a few months. yes your body needs to start making the natural chemicals again on its own and that can take months.
there are things that help, lots of exercise, amino acids, healthy diet,
protein, vitamins, lots of fluids but time will be your healer.....
during your clean time were you going to counseling and/or support groups to help prevent relapse?
recovery is a marathon not a sprint......there is no magic bullet for recovery it is a daily, step by step process, one foot in front of the other.....
stick-to-it-ive-ness is key....
Read some of these,
You might be able to detox many times, "success" has a straight set of actions to adhere to.
I think with the thomas recipe, amino acid protocal, that are on the lower right of this page, AND EXTREMELY Important, look up kyle505 posts on this website. With your job, you should be able to get a week or more off to lay around the house watch tv, soak in a tub of epsom salts. The rapid detox will not work unless you follow kyle's directions. From superstars to those living with family or friends to support them, it won't work until you understand kyle's message. Also lookup on the internet, cognitive behavioral therapy .you can do it online free.
Good luck, please keep posting.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have been doing a lot of research, I think I have been doing research on just over withdrawal for over a year. I could write a thesis for someone's Doctorate on opiate addiction with everything I have read and experienced first hand.
One of the hardest parts of withdrawal is waiting for it to happen. Granted, you dont feel great the 1st or 2nd day, but you know the worst is till to come. It drives me crazy, I just want to battle it and be done. I can handle PAWs, I have been there before and I know how lifeless you feel, but at least I can go to work and pretend I am normal.
I would spend $5k on a Rapid Detox if I knew I wouldnt just wake up in withdrawal and go through that for 3 more days. If thats the case then I might as well do it at home or in a detox facility that isnt as expensive (however all cost at least $5k unless its not a medical supervised one).
Too bad some of those actors, actresses, and pro athletes dont come out and say how it is, because I know they all have to use them.
Most of the info I find is stuff from 2006-2008, but I know its improved a lot since then. I know back then it was very controversial but it seems like the methods have come far since then.
I have a six figure job that I dont want to lose, I dont get a whole lot of downtime from my job, and when I do there will still be a bunch of work piling up while I am gone. I have cold turkey withdrawal'ed before with pills still in the house and never even thought about taking them, I even had xanax that I refused to take. For some reason I just wanted my body to be totally pure, but this was after only 3-4 months of use. At that time I still remember what it was like to be sober. I had only taken the pills at night to get high, I didnt use them to function throughout the day like now.
Thanks again for the reply, I might do some more research and try to find some people who went through it.
welcome to mh forums,
lookup waisman detox on youtube, there are several videos of people going that route. maybe you have, appears you've done some research.
the problem with it, is the lack of aftercare. this site is a major part of my aftercare at 9 months off opiates. stay on this site several days to learn more about aftercare. I'm glad you found this site and wish you the best, please stay in touch, ask questions, there's lots of support here.