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Subutex and Withdrawals
All, I located ten Subutex pills today and plan on using them for the withdrawals coming off this Hydrocodone habit. I have a few questions that i hope someone here could help me out with.
1) I have ten (10) pills total. Is this enough to get me over the worst of the withdrawals once I stop taking the Hydro? I've heard the Sub cannot be taken for 12-24 hours after my last dose of Hydro. One must be in moderate withdrawal in other words.
2) I'm not sure but I think these are the 8mg pills. I know you should start high in dosage then wean down. Would starting at the full 8mg for say two days then taper down half be a good way to go? I'm so unsure on this and cannot get in to see a Sub prescribing doc here locally as they have a huge waiting list. Any advice anyone could offer on this and how I should go about doing it would be very much appreciated.
I just want off this stuff, everything, once and for all. Please, if anyone has any advice I would love to hear it!
1) I have ten (10) pills total. Is this enough to get me over the worst of the withdrawals once I stop taking the Hydro? I've heard the Sub cannot be taken for 12-24 hours after my last dose of Hydro. One must be in moderate withdrawal in other words.
2) I'm not sure but I think these are the 8mg pills. I know you should start high in dosage then wean down. Would starting at the full 8mg for say two days then taper down half be a good way to go? I'm so unsure on this and cannot get in to see a Sub prescribing doc here locally as they have a huge waiting list. Any advice anyone could offer on this and how I should go about doing it would be very much appreciated.
I just want off this stuff, everything, once and for all. Please, if anyone has any advice I would love to hear it!
" I'm almost willing to bet there is something out there but because there is so much money in rehab services they are being forbidden to present it to the general public! "
Actually, probably not (although if someone could figure something out, they could be an instant millionaire)....as in order to make a miracle "cure", someone would have to figure out how to bypass that physiological process involved with dependency. It's not as easy as it would seem. It sure would be nice though! I think, in some respects, w/d is an important part of detox...as to an extent, it serves (sometimes) as a deterrant to use again. Not all, but some people are determined never to have to go through that again.
"I think I'm just going to stick it out now and only take when the sickness becomes unbearable. Maybe take just a single dose to calm things down."
You have to make that decision for yourself, but I sincerely would leave the Subs completely out of the equation all together. The problem with just taking a little sub to help with w/d symptoms is two-fold.
For one, it's hard to calculate a proper dose. As mentioned earlier, sub is very strong, and the last thing you would want to do is take way more than you needed...as that will only drag out the w/ds. Sub doctors use certain parameters, based on your prior usage, and also your current w/d symptoms, to determine an induction dose. It's not rocket science, but to do it on your own, isn't optimal. Also, as I said, you most definitely would get some relief, but it would only prolong withdrawals.
If you DO end up taking sub during this process, keep in mind that it has a long half life, meaning re-dosing several times a day is not necessary, it doesn't work any better doing it that way. A lot of people who try to use Sub on their own get stuck in that trap. They think it's like any other opiate, and redose way more than necessary.
It's just a very slippery slope using sub in that manner. While I think sub can be a great tool in detox and recovery, my personal opinion is that if a person can do it themselves, it's far better. If sub IS going to be used, it's best done the proper way, with the help and guidance of a good sub clinic ("good" being an important word,.,.there are a lot of not so good clinics out tghere). Just be very careful okay? Come here and post, and try the thomas recipe before resorting to taking sub. This forum is a great resource. SO many people have muddled through w/ds with the help of people who have been there.
I hope you do very well! Soon, this WILL all be behind you! That will be something to celebrate for sure! :0) Sending you positive thoughts!
Actually, probably not (although if someone could figure something out, they could be an instant millionaire)....as in order to make a miracle "cure", someone would have to figure out how to bypass that physiological process involved with dependency. It's not as easy as it would seem. It sure would be nice though! I think, in some respects, w/d is an important part of detox...as to an extent, it serves (sometimes) as a deterrant to use again. Not all, but some people are determined never to have to go through that again.
"I think I'm just going to stick it out now and only take when the sickness becomes unbearable. Maybe take just a single dose to calm things down."
You have to make that decision for yourself, but I sincerely would leave the Subs completely out of the equation all together. The problem with just taking a little sub to help with w/d symptoms is two-fold.
For one, it's hard to calculate a proper dose. As mentioned earlier, sub is very strong, and the last thing you would want to do is take way more than you needed...as that will only drag out the w/ds. Sub doctors use certain parameters, based on your prior usage, and also your current w/d symptoms, to determine an induction dose. It's not rocket science, but to do it on your own, isn't optimal. Also, as I said, you most definitely would get some relief, but it would only prolong withdrawals.
If you DO end up taking sub during this process, keep in mind that it has a long half life, meaning re-dosing several times a day is not necessary, it doesn't work any better doing it that way. A lot of people who try to use Sub on their own get stuck in that trap. They think it's like any other opiate, and redose way more than necessary.
It's just a very slippery slope using sub in that manner. While I think sub can be a great tool in detox and recovery, my personal opinion is that if a person can do it themselves, it's far better. If sub IS going to be used, it's best done the proper way, with the help and guidance of a good sub clinic ("good" being an important word,.,.there are a lot of not so good clinics out tghere). Just be very careful okay? Come here and post, and try the thomas recipe before resorting to taking sub. This forum is a great resource. SO many people have muddled through w/ds with the help of people who have been there.
I hope you do very well! Soon, this WILL all be behind you! That will be something to celebrate for sure! :0) Sending you positive thoughts!
You would think with all the advances in medicine today that some medical professional would have come up with a simple, easy to use, withdrawal method that causes absolutely no withdrawal problems! I'm almost willing to bet there is something out there but because there is so much money in rehab services they are being forbidden to present it to the general public!
Ok, on Day 4 of the taper method today. Have taken just 4.5 pills, down from 13 yesterday and am feeling comfortable. I think I'm just going to stick it out now and only take when the sickness becomes unbearable. Maybe take just a single dose to calm things down. I want to push this a little to get it over and done with. I really don't want to drag it out if I can get away with a faster taper.
I can't wait until this is all behind me!
Ok, on Day 4 of the taper method today. Have taken just 4.5 pills, down from 13 yesterday and am feeling comfortable. I think I'm just going to stick it out now and only take when the sickness becomes unbearable. Maybe take just a single dose to calm things down. I want to push this a little to get it over and done with. I really don't want to drag it out if I can get away with a faster taper.
I can't wait until this is all behind me!
I've decided to NOT go through with the Subs and just wean down from the Hydro's. I just can't bring myself to putting more, and a different, medication into my body right now!
I think that's a great decision. Sub can be a great tool, but in a holistic program, not to just avoid w/d. It almost never works that way (where w/d is completely averted), and often times, it complicates things even more.
Look at the Thomas recipe for suggestions on how to mininize w/d symptoms and start thinking about what kind of aftercare you are going to get into...so once you're off, you can STAY off.
Very best to you...I'll be anxious to watch your progress.
I think that's a great decision. Sub can be a great tool, but in a holistic program, not to just avoid w/d. It almost never works that way (where w/d is completely averted), and often times, it complicates things even more.
Look at the Thomas recipe for suggestions on how to mininize w/d symptoms and start thinking about what kind of aftercare you are going to get into...so once you're off, you can STAY off.
Very best to you...I'll be anxious to watch your progress.
I've decided to NOT go through with the Subs and just wean down from the Hydro's. I just can't bring myself to putting more, and a different, medication into my body right now!
I just need to be disciplined in my taper and follow the schedule I have to the T. I've done it once or twice before with minimal wd's.
Man, this group and all the advice really get through to me! The advice and opinions are cherished! You guys, namely clean_in_ks just saved me a bunch of problems I think! Thank you!
I just need to be disciplined in my taper and follow the schedule I have to the T. I've done it once or twice before with minimal wd's.
Man, this group and all the advice really get through to me! The advice and opinions are cherished! You guys, namely clean_in_ks just saved me a bunch of problems I think! Thank you!
PLEASE educate yourself MORE about subs before you do this. I had a huge hydro habit. My PC dr referred me to a sub doc on a day I was in a state of panic, leaving the ER and needed help RIGHT THEN....I was ready to address my addiction and needed to take action before I just went home and started re-shoving pills in my mouth. I wanted to take advantage of that crisis and DO something and I "very blindly and in a very sick, helpless, state" saw a wacked out psych dr's office that told me NOTHING ahead of time about subs. They just thought I was drug seeking. I was so naive, innocently hooked medically on TONS of hydros and just "trusted" when I was WAY too sick to do otherwise If I knew then, what I know now.....I NEVER would have done subs for 28 days. It is a much stronger narcotic than hydros, and has a much longer half life too. I wish I had just cold turkeyed at 10 hydros a day (10 mg). Others will disagree with me, but when I saw you were calling around for sub dr's yesterday I cringed because for a hydro pill addiction you are INCREASING the amount of narcotics on your worn out pain receptors....not decreasing. The subutex doesn't have a block in it so that won't stop any effects of taking additional hydros on top of the subutex and that is not good. Suboxone has the block, but you won't have that.
Using subs to go off hydros is nuts imo only of course....and believe you me, I was nuts!
The hydros will leave your system much faster if you don't start attaching subutex to your pain receptors. Your ct misery will pass faster is what I'm trying to say.
Subs have their purpose.....and imho, using them to get off pills is NOT their purpose. We have tons of info on subs in the health pages below (bottom r.h. corner) Click on the FAQ about subs and read a little. VERY good info....even for people who don't take subs but want to learn about how narcotics effect us in every way. I learned a lot reading it!
Not wanting to suffer anymore than we have to is perfectly normal during w/d's but we have to change our drug seeking behavior by not seeking a drug to get off a drug. It's futile.
Please educate yourself a little more before you take the 10 pills you have from a non-sub dr source....subutex is diff from suboxone, there's a specific way to induct the sub med, a lot of particulars that are critical for a sub plan to work......along w/outpatient program that compliments and helps the new sub patient. I'm guessin you just got 10 subutex off the street and are doctoring yourself. Ya just gotta make up your mind to not feel good for a week or so (initially...varies for all of us).
We have to go thru the nasties to get to the goodies....no way around it~
Using subs to go off hydros is nuts imo only of course....and believe you me, I was nuts!
The hydros will leave your system much faster if you don't start attaching subutex to your pain receptors. Your ct misery will pass faster is what I'm trying to say.
Subs have their purpose.....and imho, using them to get off pills is NOT their purpose. We have tons of info on subs in the health pages below (bottom r.h. corner) Click on the FAQ about subs and read a little. VERY good info....even for people who don't take subs but want to learn about how narcotics effect us in every way. I learned a lot reading it!
Not wanting to suffer anymore than we have to is perfectly normal during w/d's but we have to change our drug seeking behavior by not seeking a drug to get off a drug. It's futile.
Please educate yourself a little more before you take the 10 pills you have from a non-sub dr source....subutex is diff from suboxone, there's a specific way to induct the sub med, a lot of particulars that are critical for a sub plan to work......along w/outpatient program that compliments and helps the new sub patient. I'm guessin you just got 10 subutex off the street and are doctoring yourself. Ya just gotta make up your mind to not feel good for a week or so (initially...varies for all of us).
We have to go thru the nasties to get to the goodies....no way around it~
Consider that 1mg of subutex is approx. equal to 40mg of morphine or 60mg of hydrocodone. I don't know how many you where taking, but 1 - 8mg sub is close to 500mg of hydrocodone. I think the subs will get you high, or maybe sick. Buprenorphine is the second strongest opiate available, so be careful. Read the suboxone/subutex FAQs at the bottom right of this page. I wouldn't suggest using subs without the help of a knowledgeable doctor or doing a lot of research.
withdraw only really last 3-5 days physically. mentally is a different story though. i'd say take a full one for the first 3 days then down to half
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