Aa
Thinking of dancing with the devil :(
I really don't know if I can do this. I feel like crap and its magnified by only 3 hours of sleep. I'm exhausted but I can't sleep. I'm so sick I feel like I have the flu.
I'm really thinking about stopping the suboxone and taking percocets and weaning off those. I think those may be easier to wean off but that could be just the fear talking. I know that's going in circles but man I just can't go through the whole no sleeping stuff and feel like crap that overwhelms me. Keep in mind I have 4 little ones and I can't put my life on hold. I can't even slow down for a day there is to much to be done on a daily basis. I'm just so frustrated and all I can help to think is its only going to get worse. I'm on .50mgof subs and I still need to get down to .25mg then jump.
I don't want to drag this out but what do you guys recommend I do? I though maybe just going down 25% until off it may help but i dont know this is my first time at all this. Open to any suggestions.
I'm really thinking about stopping the suboxone and taking percocets and weaning off those. I think those may be easier to wean off but that could be just the fear talking. I know that's going in circles but man I just can't go through the whole no sleeping stuff and feel like crap that overwhelms me. Keep in mind I have 4 little ones and I can't put my life on hold. I can't even slow down for a day there is to much to be done on a daily basis. I'm just so frustrated and all I can help to think is its only going to get worse. I'm on .50mgof subs and I still need to get down to .25mg then jump.
I don't want to drag this out but what do you guys recommend I do? I though maybe just going down 25% until off it may help but i dont know this is my first time at all this. Open to any suggestions.
Oh, so you're not doing the sub through a clinic anymore?
It's unfortunate that people think that there's this big rush to get on and off of Sub. Unless you're only talking a matter of days, it doesn't matter (w/d wise) if you're on them for 1 month or 6, as long as you're tapering and going through the process. The MOST successful people getting off Subs that I saw were the ones who were in the program for 6-12 months. They had stabilization time and took their time tapering, while working on their aftercare. The slower taper is less rough on your system, and the stabilization period gives you a little break in between.
I know they say your not suppose to feel w/d cuz it stays in your system but if I don't take mine 2 times a day 12 hours in between doses I can feel it. Is that normal to feel w/d like that?
Yes, at lower doses, that would be common. This is why the stabilization period is important. If you weren't dropping down every 3-4 days, you WOULD eventually normalize and feel normal on your lower dose.
How many subs do you have left? So, you're taking how many mg a day of subs total? 0.5? You absolutely have tapered low enough to jump at this point if you want. Just understand that most likely you WILL still have some w/d to contend with. Very few people actually come off sub w/d free. The only ones I have seen have been people who were on other meds for different medical conditions.
It's up to you in how you want to proceed. Certainly there is the Thomas recipe that would help, and the biggest thing is just good old time. You COULD taper down a little lower, but again, I would recommend giving yourself at least 2 weeks in between drops in dosages...that's just what I've been taught and how our clinic did it...that's just for informational purposes. There definitely are advantages to the stabilization period. Doing it the way you have been doing it (especially at lower doses) just basically keeps you in a constant state of w/d.
Hope you figure out a good plan!!
It's unfortunate that people think that there's this big rush to get on and off of Sub. Unless you're only talking a matter of days, it doesn't matter (w/d wise) if you're on them for 1 month or 6, as long as you're tapering and going through the process. The MOST successful people getting off Subs that I saw were the ones who were in the program for 6-12 months. They had stabilization time and took their time tapering, while working on their aftercare. The slower taper is less rough on your system, and the stabilization period gives you a little break in between.
I know they say your not suppose to feel w/d cuz it stays in your system but if I don't take mine 2 times a day 12 hours in between doses I can feel it. Is that normal to feel w/d like that?
Yes, at lower doses, that would be common. This is why the stabilization period is important. If you weren't dropping down every 3-4 days, you WOULD eventually normalize and feel normal on your lower dose.
How many subs do you have left? So, you're taking how many mg a day of subs total? 0.5? You absolutely have tapered low enough to jump at this point if you want. Just understand that most likely you WILL still have some w/d to contend with. Very few people actually come off sub w/d free. The only ones I have seen have been people who were on other meds for different medical conditions.
It's up to you in how you want to proceed. Certainly there is the Thomas recipe that would help, and the biggest thing is just good old time. You COULD taper down a little lower, but again, I would recommend giving yourself at least 2 weeks in between drops in dosages...that's just what I've been taught and how our clinic did it...that's just for informational purposes. There definitely are advantages to the stabilization period. Doing it the way you have been doing it (especially at lower doses) just basically keeps you in a constant state of w/d.
Hope you figure out a good plan!!
it may not be withdrawal you are feeling but a lack of zing instead.
keep going forward. You are definitely making progress.soon you will be free
keep going forward. You are definitely making progress.soon you will be free
I stopped going to my subs doctor cuz he wanted me to stay on for 6 months and I didn't feel that I needed to do that. My biggest fear and why I have been trying to taper so fast is I thought the longer you stay on the subs the worst the w/d will be when I jump. I have been on them for 30 days I only wanted to be for 21 days but maybe I should shoot for 60 days to taper all the way down slower? I was cutting my dose 50% then I went to 25% this last time and only waiting 3-4 days in between. I know they say your not suppose to feel w/d cuz it stays in your system but if I don't take mine 2 times a day 12 hours in between doses I can feel it. Is that normal to feel w/d like that? Thanks for all the help.
Absolutely agree that you're taking the taper too fast, like HadEnough said, you're not allowing yourself time to stabilize in between dosage adjustments, and that's an important part of a sub taper. Where I worked, a common stabilization period was at LEAST 2 weeks, usually about a month.
A sub taper CAN be doable, but it likely won't be 100% discomfort free. You need NOT be in a big hurry here, take your time coming down off the subs. Especially at these low doses you're on, the drop downs will be more significant as far as w/d symptoms go. At the dose you're on, jumping off is an option, you just have to decide which way you'd prefer to go. Obviously, the smaller the dose you get down to, the easier that final jump would be, but also, as you have found, these last few drops are rougher, at a lower dose, so some people prefer just to get it all over with and jump, and deal with the w/d's.
As for going back to Percocet, honestly, it's not really going to be an option for you at this point BECAUSE you're on the subs. You'd have to wait 2-3 days after totally stopping subs to even really start back on the Percocets (to do it the right way anyway), and with the long half life of subs, it's going to take a good month to readjust back to the Percocet before you could taper off the right way. Sub fills the opiate receptors differently than Percocet, and it takes a while to adjust back and forth from one to another. If you hadn't introduced sub into the mix, then the Percocet would be a viable option to taper with.
My personal opinion is to talk with your sub doc about slowing the taper down some, and give yourself a chance to stabilize at your next dose (or current one if you just dropped down). It should take about 5-7 days after a drop down for the w/d symptoms to mostly resolve and for you to start to stabilize. You've done very well with the sub...no doubt at the lower doses, it gets harder. If you can accept that you will have SOME level of w/d during this process, I think you'll do better.
I agree too that you need to talk to your doctor about the sleep. What all have you tried for the insomnia? Have you made a conscious effort to do the things necessary to make sleep come a little easier (make an inviting bedroom/bed, no stimulants, staying in bed even if you're not sleeping?) I have a whole list of different things to try that will help a little...you may see some better results if you make some changes to your nightly routine. Sometimes it's little things that make a difference. Also, 3 hours don't seem like a lot, and sure you will feel tired, but 3 hours is a pretty good amount at this point, it's enough to recharge anyway. It's a misconception that everyone NEEDS 8-10 hours of sleep at night. That's probably what you're accustomed to, and you will get back to that, but 3 hours WILL work for now. People put so much pressure on themselves to HAVE to get 8+ hours, and that adds to the frustration. Just remember this is all temporary. You WILL normalize in time.
Hang in there hon!! You WILL get there, you just have to take your time. Slow and steady wins the race!
A sub taper CAN be doable, but it likely won't be 100% discomfort free. You need NOT be in a big hurry here, take your time coming down off the subs. Especially at these low doses you're on, the drop downs will be more significant as far as w/d symptoms go. At the dose you're on, jumping off is an option, you just have to decide which way you'd prefer to go. Obviously, the smaller the dose you get down to, the easier that final jump would be, but also, as you have found, these last few drops are rougher, at a lower dose, so some people prefer just to get it all over with and jump, and deal with the w/d's.
As for going back to Percocet, honestly, it's not really going to be an option for you at this point BECAUSE you're on the subs. You'd have to wait 2-3 days after totally stopping subs to even really start back on the Percocets (to do it the right way anyway), and with the long half life of subs, it's going to take a good month to readjust back to the Percocet before you could taper off the right way. Sub fills the opiate receptors differently than Percocet, and it takes a while to adjust back and forth from one to another. If you hadn't introduced sub into the mix, then the Percocet would be a viable option to taper with.
My personal opinion is to talk with your sub doc about slowing the taper down some, and give yourself a chance to stabilize at your next dose (or current one if you just dropped down). It should take about 5-7 days after a drop down for the w/d symptoms to mostly resolve and for you to start to stabilize. You've done very well with the sub...no doubt at the lower doses, it gets harder. If you can accept that you will have SOME level of w/d during this process, I think you'll do better.
I agree too that you need to talk to your doctor about the sleep. What all have you tried for the insomnia? Have you made a conscious effort to do the things necessary to make sleep come a little easier (make an inviting bedroom/bed, no stimulants, staying in bed even if you're not sleeping?) I have a whole list of different things to try that will help a little...you may see some better results if you make some changes to your nightly routine. Sometimes it's little things that make a difference. Also, 3 hours don't seem like a lot, and sure you will feel tired, but 3 hours is a pretty good amount at this point, it's enough to recharge anyway. It's a misconception that everyone NEEDS 8-10 hours of sleep at night. That's probably what you're accustomed to, and you will get back to that, but 3 hours WILL work for now. People put so much pressure on themselves to HAVE to get 8+ hours, and that adds to the frustration. Just remember this is all temporary. You WILL normalize in time.
Hang in there hon!! You WILL get there, you just have to take your time. Slow and steady wins the race!
Thanks guys its just so overwhelming and hard when you don't feel good and can't sleep. Not to mention knowing the worst is yet to come and knoeing i cant slow down my day with 4 little ones to chase. My sleep is still not very good I got 3 hours last night. I'm still on the same dose. So would you all recommend tapering down until your at zero or to jump at a certain dose?? I never realized how hard this would be, how it affects your life and family. It's a very hard process and I'm tapering. I give huge props to all of you that quit cold turkey. Thank you for your encouragement I was seriously ready just to give up and take the Percs I still have and wean off those cuz I heard it was easier. I really don't want to do that I want so badly to be drug free. I am really giving this my best and trying hard but after feeling bad and no sleeping for so many days it wears on you. I hope everyone else is doing well. Thanks
I was on fentanyl and Percs before the subs I have been on the subs for around 30 days
COMMUNITY LEADER
You want to go slow with your taper. Gotta give your body time to adjust to the lower amount. I hope you get some sleep.
Yup tapering too much@a time when ur this low on ur amount.But some1said wait til u feel great on the dose ur on.Sry but u will NOT FEEL GREAT cause ur lowering&@this low point u will not feel.great cause this is the worst of it.SUPER SLOW +much smaller drops.Go down5-10%at a time.Like u said ur on.5drop down to.45or.40.c how u feel then.NO RUSH.
I agree with openmind. You are just trying to taper too fast hon. I know you want off the subs, but you needn't suffer like this. You need to fully stabilize on a dose before moving on. No one can tell you how long that may be. Praying and thinking about you. You've come a long ways already. Don't try to eat the elephant in one or two bites.
We're not supposed to talk too much about tapers, but those symptoms! It's a sure sign that you are tapering WAY to fast. You need to go back one cut and stabilize stabilize stabilize. Don't go down to the next cut until you absolutely LOVE the dose level that you're on. Also, make smaller cuts. I think 25% is too much. You have kids, and normal every day responsibilities to take care of. If you're in a hurry to jump off, you're going to get hurt, you won't sleep, and you won't be able to think clearly. GO SLOWLY, It's as simple as that.
You also really need something to help you rest. Talk to your MD about that. But of course tell him you want something safe; you don't want to get addicted to any new drugs. 2 years ago I got hooked on Ambien. It took me MONTHS to taper off of it.
I've been following your progress and I really feel bad for you. I hope this starts to go better for you.
You also really need something to help you rest. Talk to your MD about that. But of course tell him you want something safe; you don't want to get addicted to any new drugs. 2 years ago I got hooked on Ambien. It took me MONTHS to taper off of it.
I've been following your progress and I really feel bad for you. I hope this starts to go better for you.
Hi! How long were you on the Vics and how long were you on the Subs? What Sub dose have you come down from and when did you start tapering? Thanks!
Annie
Annie
Vickie, said it All =0) listen with a open heart you have a lot on your plate InDeed. Look for Strength from GOD, Courage from Jesus, and Determination from the Holy Spirit 0:) the spirit is within you and the power is yours!!! Carry On =0)
jimi (lil wing =0)
jimi (lil wing =0)
I was hoping thaty last night would be better for you. You need some sleep. The longer you go without it the more obsessive your thoughts are going to be. I mean think about how irrrational it sounds to say you wan tto go back on the percs...
Is there anything at all they can give you for sleep? I haven't read up on your history but do you have help with the kids so that you can get a good nights rest if they do decide to put you on some descent sleep meds? You have came so far and I don't want to see you step back now. I know you have a stressful life and that cannot be helping at all. It sounds like you have a lot of stress that you are battling along with most likely some pretty bad anxiety and it is likely that you are going to have to be prescribed something for sleep if this persists.
Anyway if sleep meds are not an option, maybe a more comfortable bed, maybe trying to sleep on the couch or in a recliner, music playing, if the tv is on turn it off. I like to sleep with a fan a lot because that white noise helps me to sleep longer and deeper.
Good luck bud,
I hope this gets easier for you.
Is there anything at all they can give you for sleep? I haven't read up on your history but do you have help with the kids so that you can get a good nights rest if they do decide to put you on some descent sleep meds? You have came so far and I don't want to see you step back now. I know you have a stressful life and that cannot be helping at all. It sounds like you have a lot of stress that you are battling along with most likely some pretty bad anxiety and it is likely that you are going to have to be prescribed something for sleep if this persists.
Anyway if sleep meds are not an option, maybe a more comfortable bed, maybe trying to sleep on the couch or in a recliner, music playing, if the tv is on turn it off. I like to sleep with a fan a lot because that white noise helps me to sleep longer and deeper.
Good luck bud,
I hope this gets easier for you.
You have come a long ways...I do know I have change my ways about the subs from reading on here BUT...I did not want to go there...When I was coming off my methedone and Plus 2 other meds they put me on a sub scrip..It was a strip of 8mgs I was to take 3 strips and then slowly cut back..I hated it..It jacked me up even more..I just took the strips for 4 days . The 3 days I cut it down to 2mgs then jumped...This just added 4meds to detox from..But like I said, I was stubborn and did not want to take Anything..I had to tuff up and I went on a long a** ride because of this..I have learned alot from this...I do not know if your DOCTOR would even give you the opiates back..We are not to mix...Maybe tell him/her how you feel about the subs.. I do think that people are better off tapering from the drug they were on..I just hate that the docs make money on this merry-go-round...There really is no easy way out..We just have to tuff it up and the short term of detoxing is nothing compared to the years of use..
You just hang in..Talk to your Doctor about the Subs OK???
vickie
You just hang in..Talk to your Doctor about the Subs OK???
vickie
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