Aa
Thomas's DeTox Reciepe
Would anyone know where I can find his formula. Also, thanks for the replies. For the last two full weeks I have reduced the "doses" I take per day. Going from at least 5 and usually 7-8 per day, I am now just "needing" to have some in the morning, afternoon and before bed. I also have reduced the amount per dose by a few pills. I have been reading alot of info on some Narcotics Detoxification Under Anesthesia clinic. Seems to me in a nut shell, they put you under for a few hours, and prescribe a drug such as Naltrexone for a week or two and thats it? Well, thanks for listening. P.S. Wiz, thanks for the support...Peace Out...Doc
Doc, The first one is Thomas' recipe that I had cut and pasted on my home p.c. The second is pillpoppas recipe that I also save but had not used. I don't think they will mind me sharing it with you but they get the credit for the research.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz
If you can get yourself a week off without a lot of responsibilities to fulfill, and access to a few comparatively innocent drugs, only one by prescription, I can give you a do it yourself detox plan --- after which the meetings will mean and do a lot more for you.
Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself hydrocodone "cold turkey" detox protocol.
Supplies you'll need first:
As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin that you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the lorcet, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches.
Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.
--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if it's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.
Brand-name-only Imodium (over the counter at the supermarket)
-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.
L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.
-- thanks spook for this info: chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps
-- Spook says every other day, but my experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bed time. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense)
Anyway, if you want to do it yourself and have a chance of being free of all narcotics instead of getting hooked on methadone, one of the hardest to get off of, by the way, you might try my formula. (It's "battle-tested" and works!)
2ND. one,
you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.
A typical tablet contains somthing like this:
Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg
Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.
Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month
10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2
You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz
If you can get yourself a week off without a lot of responsibilities to fulfill, and access to a few comparatively innocent drugs, only one by prescription, I can give you a do it yourself detox plan --- after which the meetings will mean and do a lot more for you.
Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself hydrocodone "cold turkey" detox protocol.
Supplies you'll need first:
As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin that you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the lorcet, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches.
Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.
--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if it's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.
Brand-name-only Imodium (over the counter at the supermarket)
-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.
L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.
-- thanks spook for this info: chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps
-- Spook says every other day, but my experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bed time. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense)
Anyway, if you want to do it yourself and have a chance of being free of all narcotics instead of getting hooked on methadone, one of the hardest to get off of, by the way, you might try my formula. (It's "battle-tested" and works!)
2ND. one,
you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.
A typical tablet contains somthing like this:
Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg
Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.
Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month
10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2
You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.
Doc, here is a more recent version with a web site at the bottom that Thomas recomends. Again the credit is his for the research.
Good Luck, Wiz
Thomas'recipe:
Here's my re-print for the inth time of my cold turkey recipe for coping with narco withdrawal. You may benefit from just getting some brand name Immodium and stopping the runs. The runs leads to dehydration very quickly, which could be conributing to your general malaise. Check out the L-Tyrosine and B6, too. That stuff works on non-junkies as well! Good luck.
Thomas
Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.
Supplies you'll need first:
As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself, along with some good escapist movies. That always worked for me.
Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.
--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.
Brand-name-only Imodium (over the counter at the supermarket)
-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.
L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.
chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps
My experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions. After a few weeks, I cut down on the dosage, though, as it can cause the runs at high doses.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).
Take a look at this link. According to this doc, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to complete the dopamine, norepinephrine. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. I got a pretty good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6, however.
I also understand from another contributor that zinc and magnesium help replenish and restore vital substances depleted by narcotics use.
Here's a link dedicated to L-Tyrosine ...
http://www.mindfixers.com/pathway1.html
WARNING: This same site says to avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, etc.
Good Luck, Wiz
Thomas'recipe:
Here's my re-print for the inth time of my cold turkey recipe for coping with narco withdrawal. You may benefit from just getting some brand name Immodium and stopping the runs. The runs leads to dehydration very quickly, which could be conributing to your general malaise. Check out the L-Tyrosine and B6, too. That stuff works on non-junkies as well! Good luck.
Thomas
Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.
Supplies you'll need first:
As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself, along with some good escapist movies. That always worked for me.
Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.
--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.
Brand-name-only Imodium (over the counter at the supermarket)
-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.
L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.
chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps
My experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions. After a few weeks, I cut down on the dosage, though, as it can cause the runs at high doses.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).
Take a look at this link. According to this doc, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to complete the dopamine, norepinephrine. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. I got a pretty good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6, however.
I also understand from another contributor that zinc and magnesium help replenish and restore vital substances depleted by narcotics use.
Here's a link dedicated to L-Tyrosine ...
http://www.mindfixers.com/pathway1.html
WARNING: This same site says to avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, etc.
hey: try to avoid the "naltrexone route" unless it's the only thing that works. There can be some very bad side effects from
this "easy" method to detox. stick with what Wizzard told you
and you should be able to get off no problem.
kip
this "easy" method to detox. stick with what Wizzard told you
and you should be able to get off no problem.
kip
Hello,
Although lots of people on this forum give some great information on do-it-yourself detox I still think, and this is only my opinion, that the best way is to get professional help when detoxing. I just was detoxed and there is no reason to put yourself through withdrawl that can easily be treated. Remember addiction is a disease...talk to a doctor and don't be ashamed because they are supposed to treat diseases. I know some people might not like having to pay alot of money to get detoxed but this is your health and sanity we are talking about. I tried to detox myself and thought, "I would pay any amount of money to get rid of these withdrawl symptoms." Luckily I only had to pay $160. It is a relatively easy process to get detoxed now. Unless you are detoxing off of methadone which I hear is probably one of the worst things to detox from. The nurse told me people who come off methadone will feel really, really crappy for about a month...other opiate users will feel really crappy for a couple days to a week...then the worst os over, although you may have some lingering withdrawl syptoms for a long while. I still can't sleep that well!!!
Good luck to you and I hope you don't feel too crappy during withdrawl.
Tyler
Although lots of people on this forum give some great information on do-it-yourself detox I still think, and this is only my opinion, that the best way is to get professional help when detoxing. I just was detoxed and there is no reason to put yourself through withdrawl that can easily be treated. Remember addiction is a disease...talk to a doctor and don't be ashamed because they are supposed to treat diseases. I know some people might not like having to pay alot of money to get detoxed but this is your health and sanity we are talking about. I tried to detox myself and thought, "I would pay any amount of money to get rid of these withdrawl symptoms." Luckily I only had to pay $160. It is a relatively easy process to get detoxed now. Unless you are detoxing off of methadone which I hear is probably one of the worst things to detox from. The nurse told me people who come off methadone will feel really, really crappy for about a month...other opiate users will feel really crappy for a couple days to a week...then the worst os over, although you may have some lingering withdrawl syptoms for a long while. I still can't sleep that well!!!
Good luck to you and I hope you don't feel too crappy during withdrawl.
Tyler
You guys are GREAT !!! I guess I need to, or like to hear the support. I know that support is one of the "ingredients" to a safe and complete recovery. I'd wish they could give ya a little more room to right in here, to tell ya a little bit more about my situation. Maybe I can with the condensed version. Maybe I can start with a comment a family friend, which is a doctor at a well know rehab out West at a facility that I considered for a bit, that goes for about a 1k/per day. It's one of the rehabs that put ya out(anthes.). Well, he'd help me with some discount on the price(I think just a shade under 20% was final cost) still seemed kinda expensive. He did give me a list of other alternative places in various parts of the country. I'm up in N.Y.. Anyways he said after they "put ya out" you supposedly wake up PHYSICALLY not addidcted. Is this possible? Then he said I'd feel somewhat better, but might need something to take the discomfort away. He mentioned Methadone. From what I've learned from most of you, stay the hell away from that. Maybe he only mentioned this as a worse case senario. So after this treatment he said I would get some councling. Almost came across as "if your addicted, theres a problem". No ands, ifs or butts. Is this always true? I know all cases are different. No two are the same. But this is where MY story comes in. I'm a 38 SWM. I was brought up in a middle class family, quite normal. I wasn't the perfect kid as far as drugs...ie a little pot, some drinking... But nothing long term. One issue might be my Mother passed when I was 15. It was sad, but I had a lot a support through family. I have only one sib. At the age of 17 my Father passed. Again, sad time, but was helped through this time through staying with family. After a couple of years, I moved out West and partied hard as it was the early 80's. Was totaly recreactional, but I wanted to just get that out there. In February of '89, I was in a bad MVA(car crash). I was drinking with friends and the weather was bad, a deadly combination. I thank God all the time that no one was hurt. Except for me that is. I had a spinal cord injury, t-11, t-12..para... So, I know your eyebrows are starting to raise. But again, family came through. I have this thing about me, if a crisis arise's, I jump on it, try and solve it or learn to live with it and move on. I dont like being sad, I can't stand other guys I know that are in chairs and think that lifes over, the world owes me, can't live like this. I had 5 other guys in the same Spinal Cord Rehab unit as me. It was a room of statistics. Young males. Risk takers. 4 of them couldn't take life and checked out. Like I said, I like to deal with an issue and move on. I'm not sure if this is bad, maybe I'm really not dealing with issues, just putting them in a file and storing them away and forgeting it. I try and be honest with myself and don't feel that I have any real "issue's". What I mean is... I get a sense from others...your an addict, you got problems. Is this always true? I "feel" that my problem stems from needing the pain medication for Root Nerve Damage, by the way, as I have tried going, scratch that, lets be honest here, when I have run out and had to go "cold turkey", this NRPain I get, ouch, to relate the amount of pain to you on some sort of scale...When it hits...I forget about withdrawl. It has been 12 years since my accident, the pain started a year post-injury, have been to dozens of doctors. They see me in chair, and its open up the med pad. At first I didnt like the drugs. I played wheelchair basketball for a pro-team. I taught Water-Skiing. I talked to kids in schools about Spinal Cord Injuries. I couldnt, nor did I like the feeling drugs gave me. Which was usually, a lazy, kinda kick back feeling. Then about 8 years ago, I started dating a nurse. And once she saw me wither in pain one nite after I went to bed, she said, "You do not have to live life like that"... I went to a pain specialist in the Posh town of La Jolla, Ca., not that I dont love that place, but that was first time in my 28 years that I had Vicodin prescribed. I only used it when I need it. And today I know that when a change in my everyday routine, ie. being up in my chair for a few more hours than usual, will trigger pain. Like I said once I started the pills for the treatment, it went fine. Not needing them but a couple times a month. Then as the year went by, 1 wouldnt work as fast as 2. When you get pain in the middle of the nite, when ya have to get up in 4 hours, ya want the pain gone. So time goes by and eventualy I look back and there was close to 6 months when I never took any. Not a symptom of withdrawl. Although I think I never had to take more than enough for 2 nites in a row. Well, I eventually I went back to work. Again, a change in my routine. I won't mention the name of the company I run a franchise through...let's just say "You got Questions?". Next thing ya know I start having pain again, and frequent. Then the hook hits. One day, first time, I get a pain attack...No prob, take one of your nite pain pills...Damn, I never felt like this, no body aches or pains(wheeling around, pushing a 6'4", 240# dude for 12 years aint easy on the rotator cuffs, wrist, back..etc) and I had a real increase in energy. Kick butt, wonder drug... You know the rest of the story...So as I type here today: I have talked to the people at work that need to know, which by the way, still can not believe I was using a drug while in contact with me everyday. Not unusual? I also told certain close family members and a true friend or two. I have been given "as long as I need" by my employees. They have been real supportive in pitching in and keeping the calls few and far between. I think there is a saying or something that has to do with... you really find out who your true friends are when the **** hits the fan... Not that anybody that I have told has "bailed" on me... But it makes me feel good. So I have been trying to get all the bills paid ahead of time and take care of any foreseen errands that might be coming up. I have 3 people that have said " call anytime, even if it's 3:00am and ya want something from the store"... I'm trying to make this on my own, but I know I need some help.
So in closing... Anything that might be of assistance: Words of wisdom, techniques....anything is greatly appreciated...Gonna try a kick this...I'll peek in and check in... Wish me luck...
P.S.> Again Wiz....thanks for taking a part of your day to give a hand.
Talk to ya later...Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get it out there.
Peace Out
Doc
So in closing... Anything that might be of assistance: Words of wisdom, techniques....anything is greatly appreciated...Gonna try a kick this...I'll peek in and check in... Wish me luck...
P.S.> Again Wiz....thanks for taking a part of your day to give a hand.
Talk to ya later...Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get it out there.
Peace Out
Doc
Hi Doc,
Just wanted to include my voice in the chorus of voices here of folks who are here to support you.
I'm a fellow addict..got hooked on hydrocodone after chronic back pain. Oddly, the first few times I was given vicodin (once after an apendectomy, another after endometriosis surgery) I didn't even finish the prescription. I just took what I needed for the pain at the time, and stopped when I no longer needed them for pain. With my back pain though, it was a different story. Maybe because it hit during a time when I had a lot of emotional pain, I was more vulnerable.
Anyway, the theory that there is a root emotional cause for addiction is one that is controversial. I am a shrink, so folks like me toss these ideas around a lot. I tend to lean toward believing that some of us are biologically predisposed to addiction, maybe due to wiring in the brain that blocks seratonin and or endorphin production. I also think that pretty much every person alive has "issues" and emotional pain...some of us meet the addiction Dragon when we try to alleviate our issues, but not everyone does. I wish I knew the answer to why that is...if I did, I'd write a book, go on the Oprah show, help a lot of people and retire early! LOL
Doc, best of luck to you in your desire to get clean. I am still on the meds, 'cause of bad back pain (I had surgery a few months ago), so I'm trying to simply take what I need and not chase a high. It is hard. But you finding this forum will be one of your best ally's in this fight Doc. The folks here are unbelievably wonderful. I'm glad you found us!
WW
Just wanted to include my voice in the chorus of voices here of folks who are here to support you.
I'm a fellow addict..got hooked on hydrocodone after chronic back pain. Oddly, the first few times I was given vicodin (once after an apendectomy, another after endometriosis surgery) I didn't even finish the prescription. I just took what I needed for the pain at the time, and stopped when I no longer needed them for pain. With my back pain though, it was a different story. Maybe because it hit during a time when I had a lot of emotional pain, I was more vulnerable.
Anyway, the theory that there is a root emotional cause for addiction is one that is controversial. I am a shrink, so folks like me toss these ideas around a lot. I tend to lean toward believing that some of us are biologically predisposed to addiction, maybe due to wiring in the brain that blocks seratonin and or endorphin production. I also think that pretty much every person alive has "issues" and emotional pain...some of us meet the addiction Dragon when we try to alleviate our issues, but not everyone does. I wish I knew the answer to why that is...if I did, I'd write a book, go on the Oprah show, help a lot of people and retire early! LOL
Doc, best of luck to you in your desire to get clean. I am still on the meds, 'cause of bad back pain (I had surgery a few months ago), so I'm trying to simply take what I need and not chase a high. It is hard. But you finding this forum will be one of your best ally's in this fight Doc. The folks here are unbelievably wonderful. I'm glad you found us!
WW
Hi Angelica,
I just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and missing you and hoping that everything is ok, since you haven't posted in a while.
:-)
WW
I just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and missing you and hoping that everything is ok, since you haven't posted in a while.
:-)
WW
Jenny,
I'm just wanting you to know that you are on my mind, and I"m sending you healing energy and strength, hoping that you are doing ok. Please know that we are with you, even when you aren't able to post.
lots of love,
WW
I'm just wanting you to know that you are on my mind, and I"m sending you healing energy and strength, hoping that you are doing ok. Please know that we are with you, even when you aren't able to post.
lots of love,
WW
Gotta a ?. If or when I beat this, I know the pain will come back. So what is the solution for it? Do I go back on Vic's or will my tolerence be just too high. Or what other pain med's are recomended. I know that any narcotic can be addicting, but I have to worry about Vic's because I'm a para and need to keep an eye out for my liver. So what other "fillers" are in say Percocet or Oxy. I dont think Oxy would be that helpful, because I need the immediate relief, rather than a time release. I have been to dozens of doctors and tried all sorts of non-narcotic pills, with no help. I am still willing to try anything, but I might not be seeing an...as up to date doctor as I should? Thanks for the reply...
Peace Out...
Doc...
Peace Out...
Doc...
I'm here, and alive, but in the shadows!!!
i'm not doing well with my quitting, etc. etc.
i'm still using, cut down quite abit, but just couldn't take the cold turkey with all the demands of the kids and the 'new' husband who is lost in his new world.
he is going to meetings, which is wonderful, went on a job interview today, and got the job. it will involve traveling to south america, carribean, mexico all over the place... he even got a company vehicle!!!
He still looks so lost, and i know it will take time.
If he knew what i was doing, he would be heartbroken.
I am trying to find the strength, but i can't confess because i don't want to push him into relaspe. This is so very hard!
I will try harder tomorrow.
Lv Jenny
i'm not doing well with my quitting, etc. etc.
i'm still using, cut down quite abit, but just couldn't take the cold turkey with all the demands of the kids and the 'new' husband who is lost in his new world.
he is going to meetings, which is wonderful, went on a job interview today, and got the job. it will involve traveling to south america, carribean, mexico all over the place... he even got a company vehicle!!!
He still looks so lost, and i know it will take time.
If he knew what i was doing, he would be heartbroken.
I am trying to find the strength, but i can't confess because i don't want to push him into relaspe. This is so very hard!
I will try harder tomorrow.
Lv Jenny
jenny:
it's 3:00 am cst. I've been awake since 1:oo am. one of my neck
pain nights. went off oxy-c last sunday. My pain doc cut me back
to 30 mgs bid. anything under 40 just won't work--so i thought
**** it and quit again. My pain councelor will be real unhappy
with me as i promised him i'ld not do this on and off **** any
more.
Jenny, my heart goes out to you and the rough time your having
cleaning up your hand. Have you considered Buprenrphine detox?
I don't know much about it, but have heard real positive reports on this forum and else where. Perhaps even following up with a nal-trexone pellet inserted sub-q. the naltrzone sub-q is rather radical, but it would buy you 3 months of clean time, without the
option of backing out. i don't really like the idea of "running
someone elses program," so i'll just shutup about it from here on. it really tears me up to see the difficulty your having though.
when i was really strung out on heroin my world just seemed to
shrink down to me (ugh), my hypo, my spoon, and nothing else. the
smaller my world became the more desperate i became, until one day the gun in my mouth seemed the only option. Jenny, your world has chidren and a husband, something mine didn't have at that time. please don't let things go that far, as it is not an option available to you!
i could always find many reasion to keep on using, and so will
you. there is only one reasion to quit--because you can't go any
longer in an ever shrinking world! You, your children,& your
recently clean husband are in my prayers...
need all of the people (you too) on this forum
kip
it's 3:00 am cst. I've been awake since 1:oo am. one of my neck
pain nights. went off oxy-c last sunday. My pain doc cut me back
to 30 mgs bid. anything under 40 just won't work--so i thought
**** it and quit again. My pain councelor will be real unhappy
with me as i promised him i'ld not do this on and off **** any
more.
Jenny, my heart goes out to you and the rough time your having
cleaning up your hand. Have you considered Buprenrphine detox?
I don't know much about it, but have heard real positive reports on this forum and else where. Perhaps even following up with a nal-trexone pellet inserted sub-q. the naltrzone sub-q is rather radical, but it would buy you 3 months of clean time, without the
option of backing out. i don't really like the idea of "running
someone elses program," so i'll just shutup about it from here on. it really tears me up to see the difficulty your having though.
when i was really strung out on heroin my world just seemed to
shrink down to me (ugh), my hypo, my spoon, and nothing else. the
smaller my world became the more desperate i became, until one day the gun in my mouth seemed the only option. Jenny, your world has chidren and a husband, something mine didn't have at that time. please don't let things go that far, as it is not an option available to you!
i could always find many reasion to keep on using, and so will
you. there is only one reasion to quit--because you can't go any
longer in an ever shrinking world! You, your children,& your
recently clean husband are in my prayers...
need all of the people (you too) on this forum
kip
Hey Jenny
If you plan to do it at home you may want to consider an outpatient rehab that dispenses buprenex. I went to Dr. Gooberman in NJ (What an A-Hole) after I could deal with the pain after my back surgery. It made it a lot easier but after starting physical therapy I relapsed.And the good Dr. wanted 250.00 to dispense more buprenex. Which I can not afford after spending all my money on Dr's and pills. Like I said the clonidine and baclofen helped but either way you are gonna feel like something sucked the life out of you.I wanted to try Thomas' recipe but I started taking zoloft and they warn you not to. I am on day five of withdrawal and I feel the worst is over actually got up and went to therapy today. I wish you the best of luck and God Bless
If you plan to do it at home you may want to consider an outpatient rehab that dispenses buprenex. I went to Dr. Gooberman in NJ (What an A-Hole) after I could deal with the pain after my back surgery. It made it a lot easier but after starting physical therapy I relapsed.And the good Dr. wanted 250.00 to dispense more buprenex. Which I can not afford after spending all my money on Dr's and pills. Like I said the clonidine and baclofen helped but either way you are gonna feel like something sucked the life out of you.I wanted to try Thomas' recipe but I started taking zoloft and they warn you not to. I am on day five of withdrawal and I feel the worst is over actually got up and went to therapy today. I wish you the best of luck and God Bless
I understand your dillema, and am in a similar situation, as are many here.
I've been wracking my brains for a while now trying to figure out how to use pain medication responsibly. Many of the folks on this forum have helped me to validate my real need for pain relief, and start structuring my med use so that I am taking only what is needed for the pain, not one pill more to chase that elusive high.
Narcotics are the only thing that work on my pain. Like you, I've tried other kinds of pain relievers, but none of them work. Have you had a talk with your doctor about your concern about the tylenol in the vics? There are other options. Vicoprofen is what I take, it is easier on the liver than vicodin. The ibruprofen can be hard on the stomache after a while though. Have you discussed oxycontin with your Doctor? You said that you don't think it will work for you because it is time released. I found the time release part of oxy was really helpful. It worked very well on my pain, and because it was time released, I got relief from the pain without a high (I never crushed them).
Either way..the struggle to change your relationship with pain meds so that you aren't chasing a high is a very tough struggle.
We're in this togethr though, you, me, and many otheres..so with each other's support I believe we can all get through it.
WW
I've been wracking my brains for a while now trying to figure out how to use pain medication responsibly. Many of the folks on this forum have helped me to validate my real need for pain relief, and start structuring my med use so that I am taking only what is needed for the pain, not one pill more to chase that elusive high.
Narcotics are the only thing that work on my pain. Like you, I've tried other kinds of pain relievers, but none of them work. Have you had a talk with your doctor about your concern about the tylenol in the vics? There are other options. Vicoprofen is what I take, it is easier on the liver than vicodin. The ibruprofen can be hard on the stomache after a while though. Have you discussed oxycontin with your Doctor? You said that you don't think it will work for you because it is time released. I found the time release part of oxy was really helpful. It worked very well on my pain, and because it was time released, I got relief from the pain without a high (I never crushed them).
Either way..the struggle to change your relationship with pain meds so that you aren't chasing a high is a very tough struggle.
We're in this togethr though, you, me, and many otheres..so with each other's support I believe we can all get through it.
WW
Hey there Jenny,
Just remember we are here for you no matter what. It seems that you are trying to do one of the most difficult things in the world pretty much alone..so I have to agree with some of Kip's suggestions, to get some sort of outside help, whatever you feel would work for you.
I can still "see" your spirit shine through in your words, your desire to grow and get your life back remains...try to hang on to that spirit.
love,
Ww
Just remember we are here for you no matter what. It seems that you are trying to do one of the most difficult things in the world pretty much alone..so I have to agree with some of Kip's suggestions, to get some sort of outside help, whatever you feel would work for you.
I can still "see" your spirit shine through in your words, your desire to grow and get your life back remains...try to hang on to that spirit.
love,
Ww
Hey there:
Belive it or not, I actually got a great deal of inspiration from
your story. You are obviously a very couragious man. I have a very
good friend at work, in a wheel chair whose activity level is at
least 10 times your average person his age.
I spent 20 years, starting in my teens doing any kind of opiate
drug I could shoot up. During those 20 years I never once gave a
thought to what I'ld do if I ever needed a pain killer. I was in
recovery in NA for 18 years when an injury from 1970 came back to
haunt me.I went thru a windshield chin first. The ER Doc who put
18 stiches in my chin told me that later on in life I would have
real bad problems with my neck. Later on in life came in 1997. I
had 18 years clean and off the hell bound train of iv opiate abuse.I've had 2 cervical procedures in the last 2 years with an
attempted suicide inbetween. My last surgery was in May of this year. I've been back to work about a month. Next week I wiil find out if the last surgery worked. If it didn't there will be nothing
more that can be done for me, as there is very little left of the
effected vertebraes to put any more screws into.My advice to you
is to find a good pain specialist and clinic.I'm not real happy
with my pain MD, but I also see a pain psychologist who has literaly saved my life and marriage. Addiction and pain control
is a very difficult ballence to strike. It's sort of like sitting
on the edge of a big razor blade. I've recently noticed that when
my pain level stays at about 7.5 or above, addiction isn't much
of a problem. I'ld rather deal with drug withdrawals than this
level of pain. I will find the ballence point, it's just not going
to be done quickly and easily. My wife turned me on to this forum
after my last surgery. I doubt I would still be alive if I had not
found this place of magic and grace in cyber space. Stick with us
as we need you as much as you will find you need us!
kip
Belive it or not, I actually got a great deal of inspiration from
your story. You are obviously a very couragious man. I have a very
good friend at work, in a wheel chair whose activity level is at
least 10 times your average person his age.
I spent 20 years, starting in my teens doing any kind of opiate
drug I could shoot up. During those 20 years I never once gave a
thought to what I'ld do if I ever needed a pain killer. I was in
recovery in NA for 18 years when an injury from 1970 came back to
haunt me.I went thru a windshield chin first. The ER Doc who put
18 stiches in my chin told me that later on in life I would have
real bad problems with my neck. Later on in life came in 1997. I
had 18 years clean and off the hell bound train of iv opiate abuse.I've had 2 cervical procedures in the last 2 years with an
attempted suicide inbetween. My last surgery was in May of this year. I've been back to work about a month. Next week I wiil find out if the last surgery worked. If it didn't there will be nothing
more that can be done for me, as there is very little left of the
effected vertebraes to put any more screws into.My advice to you
is to find a good pain specialist and clinic.I'm not real happy
with my pain MD, but I also see a pain psychologist who has literaly saved my life and marriage. Addiction and pain control
is a very difficult ballence to strike. It's sort of like sitting
on the edge of a big razor blade. I've recently noticed that when
my pain level stays at about 7.5 or above, addiction isn't much
of a problem. I'ld rather deal with drug withdrawals than this
level of pain. I will find the ballence point, it's just not going
to be done quickly and easily. My wife turned me on to this forum
after my last surgery. I doubt I would still be alive if I had not
found this place of magic and grace in cyber space. Stick with us
as we need you as much as you will find you need us!
kip
HI, I have read and re-read your post and from what I am getting out of it you still have pain,,,you have not found that balance..sort of what witchywoman was talking about taling the pain meds and not tryng tochase the high a really hard thing to do...qustion? do you still have pain/ i may have missed something in your post,,,it is really hard fro me to concentrate these days,,you have pain but are also dependant on the pain meds...can you life a productive ife without the medication? what then will you do for your pain? this is a hard one,, I see your willingness to get clean..the one thing i have to add to these already wonderful responses is that you have come to a great place,,,take what these people have to offer you,,,but,,,in my honest opinion if you nee pain meds to get through the day why not? I have been in recovery since 1989 but due to aot of backproblems I need maedication to live my life productively....i have 2 small kids to chase after...a job a hubby etc..and if i should become dependant..which I sure I am,,,my doc said we can wean me off the stuff....anyway i just wish you all the luck in the world......and keep coming back we all need each other love to all cin
Tell Jenny to call if she needs me I sent you my phone number If her computer crashed are you able to forard any maaill to her? but maybe if you talk too her you could give her my number
love cindi
love cindi
Forgive me Susan and Jenny, for once in my life I do not know what to say. I'm speechless. I was going to write that it will be okay and hang in there because we are all rooting for you Jenny, but I must be true to my heart and my heart tells me that nothing short of intervention can help this situation. A father/husband goes to an in house detox center and is gone a month and comes home, interviews and gets a job, finds an oxy and shoots it up in 24 hours back in the real world....Jenny, I feel so frikken helpless...... I'm the recovering addict in my household, my wife doesn't even drink a glass of wine, I don't know what I'd do if one of us was using and the other was trying to detox.......this is beyond my knowledge and experience. Especially with the children involved.......I can and will pray, I can, and will give you support and tell you that there IS HOPE, but I can't make you and your husband STOP....only you can do that. As Skip says: I will love you anyway and there is nothing you can do about it........PLEASE JENNY....LOVE YOURSELF!
Love yourself enough to love your children. I don't know your husband but I think I know you and the Jenny that posts here helping the others is still inside you screaning to come out. The egg is cracked Jenny, only YOU can help yourself fly towards the light of FREEDOM. God bless and keep you dear. You will be in my thoughts as always and in my prayers as well......
Love Wiz.......
Love yourself enough to love your children. I don't know your husband but I think I know you and the Jenny that posts here helping the others is still inside you screaning to come out. The egg is cracked Jenny, only YOU can help yourself fly towards the light of FREEDOM. God bless and keep you dear. You will be in my thoughts as always and in my prayers as well......
Love Wiz.......
WHAT WIZARD SAYS ABOVE. JENNY THE MADNESS MUST STOP. ALL I FEEL
I CAN DO FOR YOU NOW IS PRAY AND HELP PICKUP THE PIECES!
I am going to love and care for you, and there is not one damm thing you can do about it!
I CAN DO FOR YOU NOW IS PRAY AND HELP PICKUP THE PIECES!
I am going to love and care for you, and there is not one damm thing you can do about it!
Hi. After reading all you've been through I truly admire you. I had an injury in my T12/L1 in 1996 or 97. Mine was the result of a idiot doctor trying to do a bone marrow biopsy in my back instead of my illiac crest. But the point is,I was in so much pain I was screaming. It damaged the caulda equina nerve. I have so much pain from the nerve damage. I was wondering about your nerve damage.I was suffering so much and getting pain meds was difficult at best in my area of Tennessee. I had a doc of 8 years out of town but he would only write meds for a few days at a time due to being called before the review board. I have multiple other health problems that I won't even touch on because they don't compare to what you've been through. But I have a doctor now that treats my pain without problems. I take 7.5 hydro @ 6 to 8 hours and have oxycodone for severe pain. I don't have a problem with addiction but can't imagine being without something for this pain. I was diagnosed yesterday with Colitis or possibly Crones disease. The biopsies will tell us which it is. But knowing what pain I have with my back injury alone I hurt for you and what your going through. My daughter is an addict. She was put on MS Cotin last week by her neurologist. He says you can't get high and is something a person with chronic pain /addict, can take without problems. I just wonder if you have tried this or heard about it. You will be in my prayers. God Bless, Kerrie
Hello guys. I wanted to let you know I had my colonoscopy yesterday. The doc says I have Colitis. He did biopsies to make sure it isn't Chrones disease. He put me on a lot of meds. I guess at least it's an answer. I looked it up on the internet and the symptoms are deffinantly like mine. Diahrea 10 to 20 times a day with severe pain and cramps. It may not be good news but at least now I know. I'll write more later. Trying to play catch up here after being gone a few days.
God Bless you All,
Kerrie
God Bless you All,
Kerrie
I've been kind of hit and miss around here for a couple of weeks due to my own health issues so please forgive me! Kerrie mentioned MS Contin to you. I've been given this med and I believe it is safe as long as you take it as perscribed. Like OXY Contin, it can be crushed, chewed or even used IV to get the "big buzz". People who do this are asking for death!
I also used MSIR(morphine sulphate immediate release) for breakthrough pain. The same warning applies as with the Morphine Sulphate Continuous Release(MS Contin).
Like you, I've been through all the NSAIDS and have had no success. I'm down to Vicodin again but my doc even wants to wean me off of that, too. He is suggesting that Darvocet may be the next step! Well, I won't know until I try it. J.B.
Good luck to you!
I also used MSIR(morphine sulphate immediate release) for breakthrough pain. The same warning applies as with the Morphine Sulphate Continuous Release(MS Contin).
Like you, I've been through all the NSAIDS and have had no success. I'm down to Vicodin again but my doc even wants to wean me off of that, too. He is suggesting that Darvocet may be the next step! Well, I won't know until I try it. J.B.
Good luck to you!
Kerrie, my dear friend how nice to see you posting again Chrones disese is not a very plesenat thing but at least this si something that can be controlled ( maybe that will brighten your day) be careful as not to become dehydrated.....I have alot to tell you so later ater i do my usual stuff here I plan on sending you some mail take care and i am so happy to hear from you and myabe your daughter will do weel on MS contn IF TAKEN the right way...it did help my mom.very well....love you girl cin
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