Time to Let Go of the DEMON PILLS!

[WhyWhy75]

Here is my problem...along with hopefully a solution with your help. I have a Hydrocodone addiction that has become seriuosly outta hand anymore! I am now up to 20 a day of the 10/325mg. I finally came clean with my husband about this problem. He only thought I took like 4 a day!! HA! Was HE wrong. After a long talk...we decided to do the tapering way cuz Im sooo super scared of being sick sick sick. I have been taking these little demon pills for 2 years and worked my way up to 20 a day as Im sure alot of u know how easy that can be done. Im ready more then ever to stop this. Im just tired of being tired...and I cant get them as easy anymore. I get them...but its not the legal way, thats all Im gonna say about that. But I can be in biiiig trouble if caught lets put it that way. No, Im not stealing. Im tired of worring where Im gonna score my next script when I run low...countin the pills...ect.
Well...my hubby has my bottle as of today, and he will give me 11 a day for the next 4 days...then we thought to drop one pill each 4 days...so I will get 10 in a few more days to last me 24 hours.;;and so on and so forth. Is that the right way to taper??? Can someone help me taper, like with a plan starting with 11 pills and down to 0 pills? We do have great health insurance though, so should I do the Suboxone is that just prolonging the drama of this life??

Ive read and read and read your posts before and Ive learned sooo much and I give you all credit to the ones that have gotten clean now...and also the ones that are doing it. Im such a chicken. I wish I could just flush mine instead of having my husband throw me 11 and tell me those have to last 24 hours. Even though I still took 11 today...my w/d where there, at least I think they were w/ds...i was a bit restless, kinda wanted to cry outta self pity and was fearful. Was that w/d from not having enough of the amount that im used to??

I guess what I need to ask is this...
How do I do a successful taper?? I dont know how to find anyone on here, so if you can paste it, that would be great!

How long are the withdrawls gonna last or how bad if I finish a successful taper??

If I went on Suboxone, how long do I have to stay on it if I just want to get over my vicodin addiction?? I dont need something else to w/d from!

I hope that all of you will help me through this...Im sooo super scared...and just of the life change ya know? They have been a part of my life now for 2 years, and some people may think I take that many to get "high"...well I dont. I take that many to "maintain" in a way....from being sick. I clean, drive, function just fine...but I read that people that have recovered feel great. I feel great on them, and feel "normal"...lol...I dont get it! Am I living in a fog like they say?? I dont feel I am...weird, I guess. I dont slur, I never have taken over 5 in one sitting...lol....and I dont take them to forget about life or anything...again, I take them to maintain the level Im used to. Does that make sense?

Thanks in advance for all your help through this...I know I can do it....Its just Im wondering what way to go! Taper, cold turkey, Suboxone...**sigh** I wish I would wake up tomorrow and this was all a bad bad dream, and Im well again! =[

[Sarah231]

I also took the hydro, not as many (10-12 per day) but only because that is the amount I could get.

BUT, I was doing this for over 10 years.

I started to taper on March 31, but after a couple od days of that I felt so terrible that I figured why prolong the withdrawals?? So, I just went cold turkey. It's been 13 days and I'm OK.

My biggest problem now is the nights. My legs hurt soooo bad, and a general feeling of unease, jittery.

Hopefully, these things will also pass.

Good luck to you.
It CAN be done.

[kiki661]

So I also was up to 20 a day of  the same med! Crazy huh? well people told me  oh
u WIll feel so much better when ur off them and i thought to myself yeah right how can I?
I also loved the high and took more than i should have..... SO im day 5  being on Suboxone and I can honeslty say I feel better already!   im 24 and  Love to party so for me it was a way of life for 4 years but i wanted to start up the gym and become semi normal and unclog my brain.... SO  if i can do it then YOU can do it.. I wish you the BEST of luck and im here if you ever  need support....

[worried878]

greebo and avis helped me with a taper...it is hard and it is good your hubby is helping you with it...get down as low as u can and pick a target time to quit...stick to your goals and good luck...keep posting

[Rose703]

Excellent Post and advice!!

[Greatgreebo]

Glad we could help. Like I said, PM avisg and we will get you rolling in the right direction. So, have you taken your 'nighttime dose' yet , and how much? If you haven't taken some for a while, you should take 1.5 pills and get some sleep. To hold you over until you hear from avis this is what you may do in the a.m:
Let's say you are awake for 16 hours a day- and you get up at 8 a.m...

8:00        1.5 pills
9:00          .5
10:00        .5
11:00         .5
Noon         1
1:00 pm        .5
2:00  pm      .5
3:00  pm      .5
4:00  pm       1
5:00   pm     .5
6:00   pm    .5
7:00   pm     .5
8:00  pm     .5
9:00   pm     1
10:30 pm     1.5

This is just a tentative schedule til you hear back from avis. The 1.5 pills in the morning is to help with the ickyness we all feel after being 8 hours without drugs. The 1 pill at 9 pm and then 1.5 at 10:30 pm is a bedtime dose-not enough to get 'high' but enough to let you stave off the wd's so you can get some sleep. The .5 pills through out the day keeps your blood levels constant and the occasional 1 pill during the day helps with the WD's.  Do this for a few days until you get adjusted (2-4 days)-then you cut your dose down some more. You can taper this way-and subtract a pill from your taper every few days. Anyway-like I said, get ahold of avis.
Remember to stay positive. This will only be as 'bad' as you tell yourself it will be. Don't freak yourself out. Don't be fearful. Don't be worried. It will all be okay. You will make it through this just fine. Embrace your WD's and really burn them into your memory. This helps in the future if you should be feeling weak and wanting to use. You can replay your WD's in vivid detail and then ask yourself if it's really worth it. Just keep posting here and lean on us as much as you need. Your husband is such a good man for understanding. Thank him for me!!
Stock up on things you will need when you finally get to your jumping off point-i.e...the day you are down to zero pills. You may have some WD's but they will be short lived. Have lots of Apple juice, cranberry juice, OJ or ??? to drink. Avoid soda etc. The carbonation in them pulls potassium out of your system and can make leg cramps happen OR make your existing leg cramps worse. Have lots of healthy snacks on hand. Apples, bananas (the potassium in them will help with the leg cramps), yogurt is good-it has stuff in it to help get your GI track working again. Eat healthy-help your body heal itself. Have Immodium on hand if you get the scoots-but I vote you let things flow if you can to help clean your body out. Have a heating pad. Be prepared to take hot showers for the chills if you need to. Have movies on hand that you can veg. out to. A really big thing to remember is this:
DON'T worry about tomorrow or the next day or the next during your taper. Just deal with the here and now. Things will all fall into place and you will feel better very soon. You will
make it through this.
Be positive.
Be happy you are getting your life back.
Make yourself get outside and move. LOTS of long walks-or bike rides or ????
Get yourself lots of excersice. This will help your body start making what it needs to make so you can feel better. Your body has forgotten how to make endorphins so you need to remind it.
If you are feeling restless during your taper-get out and get moving. I can't stress this enough.
You will be just fine. Don't be scared. Grab the bull by the horns and go for it!!!
Stay strong,
Greebs

[Johnny262]

Hello, I commend you for quiting. I have had the same problem for a few years now. A nurse told me that I should go to a Methadone clinic and I did and it was the worse desicion for me. It was cheaper however that trying to fine the Lortab that I needed for my addition but I could not function on the Methadone. Finally I reduced my methadone dose and got off it but the withdrawls were the most horrible thing I have ever tried to do. After I got off the methadone I started back taking Lortab and now I am out of control again. Furthermore, I hurt my back a few months ago and I may possibly need to have surgery. Well they gave my lortab for the pain and it's not touching the pain. So please get off these pills because you never know when you will need them for actual pain. I think your plan of tappering off is great and it sounds like you have a great support system. When you do get off them you will go through withdrawls. You will feel sick like a cold or flu, you will be VERY cranky, sometimes you will have trouble sleeping along with bad dreams and sweats. Just hang in there. From my past experience it took me about 3 weeks clean to start feeling better. I have heard wonderful things about Suboxone but I have not tried it so if you can't stop then I would try the Suboxone. As soon as I get my back taken care of I am going to try the Suboxone. I here the treatment is great and when you get off the it there are almost no withdrawls.

Best of Luck

[WhyWhy75]

WoW! Thanks for the wonderful replies. I am sooo blah. I DO want out of this life, and with the help and support from my husband and you all...Im GOING TO MAKE IT! =D
I never stole, or wrote out fake scripts, but something almost as bad as that. Im not proud of the sceme me and my friend have been doing. Its not me, but its my mind telling me YOU NEED THIS MEDICINE!! Its sick, it really is. Im tired of it all and no longer need this in my life. Im tellin ya, if it werent for the FEAR, I mean FEAR I have of being sick from wd...I would have already stopped using. Like I said before...Im not taking them to forget about my life..or to numb any kind of pain...Im taking them at this point to maintain...and its not even right anymore. Im "wasting" them, so to speak. Im just so thankful and blessed to have such a wonderful husband who understands and is supportive and WANTS to help me get better. Im thankful. I really am. But I just want this never ending cycle to just GO AWAY! What was your hubby doing? Writing fake scripts?? Thats a big no no too..cuz they have ways of seeing and figuring that out. I feel horrible for him...though I do understand why he did it back then...its these pills controlling US...we dont control THEM. Its crazy anymore.

Well I thank you both for your replies and I will hope to keep hearing from you all. I will keep you all posted on my progress...wish me luck..Im so scared. Keep sending me words of wisdom and I will listen and act on your recommendations. I promise...I just need a tapering plan bad!! Starting with 11 pills...that would be great. I just suck at math sooo bad. lol

[uvlvrebel]

All I have to add to Great's msg is the pitfalls of obtaining "extra" pills the 'wrong way'... On the off chance it might pertain, i wanted to post it.  hubby was arrested for trying to obtain fraud scripts (not a proud moment) I helped and encouraged the action, so I was as much to blame for the fall he took.  But HE did take the fall.  He's on probation now for the crime and (hopefully) after a year the charge will be dropped to a misdemeanor or completely dismissed, but for now- well, it's tough... don't even think about getting a job- HA- no one will even look at him to employ- and he's a professional building inspector by trade.  Hell, he (actually "we") made a mistake, but try telling a prospective employer, "I'm a recovered addict".. um, can you say "stigma".    So all i can say is, STOP!!! it's not worth thhe risk you are taking to get those pills.  After a period of time you will realize that you are a better person when you don't take them.  Your pain will decrease beacuse the pills actually feed into your desire to take them. the wd's you body goes through between doses signals your brain to take more pills and you feed the addiction.  hubby and i are almost 5 mos. clean and the cravings have vanished, the energy has returned, life is good again.  _Rebel

[Greatgreebo]

To Private Message 'avisg' go to the top of this page and hit the 'My Medhelp' link (it's at the top on the right handside-it has a little heart under the My Medhelp')  Once you are in your profile there will be a row of tabs labeled with things like 'Journals' , 'Photos' , 'Friends' etc. The last tab on the rightside says: 'Messages'-hit that one.
Once you are on the messages page-look below the 'Messages' tab and slightly to the left. You will see a link that says 'Compose' (in blue letters) with a little picture of a pencil and paper next to it. Hit the 'Compose' link and that will take you to a blank message page. Type in:  avisg      in the 'To:' box; Write 'need help with taper schedule' or something to that affect in the subject box. And then write avis a message laying out what you are on, how much, how long etc and that you need help with a taper schedule.
If you have problems you can private message (PM) me. Just follow the same procedures I've layed out above, except I'm:  Greatgreebo   so you would put my name in the 'To:' box
Good luck!!
Greebs

[Greatgreebo]

Good job on deciding to quit. You are not alone and you have come to the right place!! Hang in there-you will get your life back very soon. No more of the count-the-pills, take-the-pills, hide-the-pills nightmare!! Remember to stay positive. You can do this and it will be great when you are done with this!!  Give the taper a try and if it isn't working then CT it. You don't need Sub. for a hydro addiction. That's just an out of the frying pan into the fire solution. Contact 'avisg' via a private message-she is excellent with taper schedules. Tell her how many pills you have left to work with-how many mgs and how many times a day you are taking them  and how long you've been on them (same info you have in your post) Also, go to my journal and read the PAWS part 1, 2, 3. (post accute withdrawal syndrome) entries. This will give you some more information to help you with your getting clean resolution!!
So:
Read below and we can go from there (Don't forget to ask avisg for help with a taper)
good luck-and congrats on getting your life back. You can do this!!!  
Greatgreebo
*************************************************************************************************
Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.

The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.

Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).

Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.

Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.

Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.

Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.

Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.

How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.

SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.

Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.

For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.

Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.

Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.

If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.

1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high

You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.

You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.

The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.

How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.

If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.

If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.

Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.

It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.

If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.

30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.

The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.

When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.

My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.