We currently have a few members doing short term detoxes off of Sub. Is it the amount of time or the amount of Sub the greatest factor in not getting addicted to the Sub

[Zeuss]

There are at least three of us detoxing off our DOC with Sub. This could be a very informative situation for potential Sub users. From what I can see, we all only want to be on it three weeks or less. I am on day 7 and have taken a total of 8 milligrams of Sub. I noticed the others are taking a little more each day. I still feel minor WDS, mostly the RLS, but every thing else is good, and this is on 1 milligram and a hair a day.  Most people say to go no more than 21 days to avoid the hell of Sub WDS,  We all know that One member did a 21 day taper and had Wds for 2 months. I personally wanted to just be on it for no more than 14 days at the 1 milligram pace. Now a few of the other members are on lets say 4-6 milligrams a day and they say they feel fine and definitely want the short taper. Does it benefit me any by taking only 1 milligram a day and having a few minor WDS(nothing to lose sleep over at all) or moving up to lets say the 2-8 range a day as a few others have started on that and feel fine and they also want the short taper.  So is it the amount of Sub or the length of Sub in determining how bad WDS will be if any, My total would be in the 16 milligram range for 14 days, give or take a milligram. I want us all to succeed to help other people in our experiences, but we have to experiment in order to get the results out. And me doing 1 a day leaves really no room to taper, I will just jump off at near 14 days which I would assume would have most of my physical WDs from my DOC. Anyone Agree.  If three of us all went 14 days and that is definitely under the 3 week guideline, and one took a total of 16 milligrams, the second took a total of 40 milligrams and the third took 70 milligrams, what are the mitigating factors in who doesnt WD that much. I have read the Health Pages on this subject but need to hear some more answers.  I appreciate it very much                                 ZEUSS    ONE FOOT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER

[wannawean]

I wanted to throw my two cents in... I have been taking 4 mg of sub for the last several days..This is the LAST taper I devised. It is a ten day taper totaling 32mg. I am taking 3 mg today, tomorrow then from there all the way to a crumb. That's the plan. I wk in a very high pressure environment. I wk tomorrow, I will still be @ 3mg tomorrow. In a perfect world I think I'd STOP and W/D not worrying if I can wk @ 1 mg ect.... I will keep you guys posted on what I do.
Keep in mind this drug stays in our bodies along time.1/2 of the drug consumed is in ur body days later....36hr 1/2 life.
So, there has to be a compounding effect. So even @ 1 mg as the drug metabolizes you will probably still have WD. IMO less than someone taking a higher mg...
If jumping @ 3-4 mg I expect pretty shi**y lengthily WD.

[hopsing94]

The less time you are on it the better. Also better that you are on a smaller dose. Sub is no different than any other drug in that the more you are taking the harder the detox. If I was you I would start tapering the 1mg down to 0 for the next few days and you will have less trouble with w/d's than your counterparts. The shorter the use the better. One way to do the taper is to spread your dose out to longer dosing times, ie don't take any one day then take a dose then don't take any for two days, then take a dose and so on until you are off. The sooner the better the less the better.

[Cavimom]

Hi,  I wanted to comment on this thread even though I did NOT use Sub to get off of Percocet....  I was offered them from a friend but having heard about getting addicted to the Sub, I didnt take it.  I guess people take it so the W/D scares the bahjeebers out of them.   W/d stinks no doubt about it BUT I was afraid of "likeing" the Sub high...and then having to w/d from THAT!  Your body will rid itself of the drugs like this...
...After 2 days HALF is gone... after 4 its all gone.... After that its all in your MIND!!  You just have to be ready to tough it out for about a week and then your DONE!  You may have symptoms left after that like diahrrea and maybe some tiredness while your body adjusts to being drug free.  The receptors in your brain adjust to naturally reacting to pain and other stressors. You just gotta give it TIME.... Hope my view helps.. JMO though.... Bets of luck, Kim

[alicelost]

Thanks-for the warm welcome..im in the midst of a bad night coming onto day 3-why did I do this to myself?Ive been cold/hot/stomach ache-no sleep-rls,etc.My doc was heroin.
I was active in the 90s-got clean in 2000-relapsed in 2002-went on suboxone for 2 yrs in 2003-relapsed in 2008-for 4 months..so my history of using is lengthy-but I have solid clean time/2 yr. breaks-this last relapse was sporadic-cos I had not done any heroin in 4 yrs. because of treatment.Im in therapy-and finished an outpatient program prior to my relapse.
I agree w/christos-that there is no rush if you have long standing problems-w/opiates..certainly the lesser of two evils-But in my case-I need to clean up now-before I go into a full-on habit..and i do not want back onto suboxone mait.so its time..Im just hating myself right now-im sick-and i gotta deal w/ it..
peace/alice

[christos24]

both are factors in becoming dependant on suboxone. I was on the highest effective dose of suboxone at 32mgs a day any higher and it acts as an opiate antagonist(causing withdrawals). I would say that  the amount of time you are on plays a little bigger role in becoming dependant on it, but like i said the dose also important. the higher dose youa re on the longer it will take to go down and slowly taper. how long youve been on it will give you an idea at how dependant you are. i ended up destroying my wrist in an accident so my addiction specialist/primary doctor ended putting me on 240 mgs of ms contin and norcos every day. and took me at first down to 4 mgs of suboxone and then down to no suboxone. it was stupid of me not to speak up thinking how bad of an idea that was someone who a year earlier was heavily heavily addicted to heroin and/or oxycontin at very large dosee along with xanax and other benzos.if you guys can succesfully get off of suboxone only after three weeks or a month that is great. it really depends on how severe of an addiction you had prior to getting treatment. mine was too severe and after being on the highest dose I was told it would be a better and easier idea to switch to methadone. i have no been to the methadone clinic for 6 months. It definitely saved my life, I absolutely thank both drugs for help me keeping my life. i knew that i would be on either of the drugs for a long time, im in no rush because the moment i do that i know i could go back to using or right back into treatment and i cant put the people i love through that or put myself through that. best of luck to you and if you have questions about anything regarding treatment let me know-christos

[Zeuss]

Of course you are more than welcome to participate in this forum. Everyone is Welcome and it is nice that you want to support and be supported.  One day we will call you Alice in Wonderland. Anything you have to say about your experiences with Sub would be much appreciated,  There are people on here who do have experience with it, but it is my first time. So what is youre opinion on a 14 day detox using 1 milligram of sub a day. Does that seem like a lot to you. And basically youre saying the shorter time and less amount is the best way for most to go.  Well since you have done this before, at least you know what youre in for and hopefully it will be smoother and you will be fine. Maybe this time when you get clean, and myself also, we will stay that way, no lets not say maybe but we will for sure. So what were you on when you just did youre 12 day sub taper. Just post when you want to and feel like it.         ZEUSS

[alicelost]

hi-im new here-found your thread..i hope i may join your grp-as i am now on day 2 no suboxone.
I relapsed in May-using on/off -I did suboxone mait. for 2 yrs-and tapered off-and had 2 yrs no opiates.It took 8 months to feel normal after mait suboxone..not good-but I did it..
I have done several sub detoxes-and the less is more-holds up-the longer the sub-the longer the w/d-I am not anti-mait either-It gave me solid time to clean up a long standing dope habit.
I did a 12 day detox on suboxone-going from 8 mg- to 1 mg.-and stopped.yesterday-I did take a vic yesterday-to chill out the runny nose/etc-but nothing today.Im freezing cold/goosebumps/but ok-The bupe has a long half-life.I know from experience to keep the detox short/or deal w/ the w/d that does last a long time-weaning down is always a good idea-jumping off on more than 1 mg-will make it worse.Sub is a strange beast-very strong opiate-I knew i wasn't getting out of this relapse w/out some pain.So here i am-and would be happy to share my knowledge of suboxone with any one that has questions..I need some support too-as i know the head trip before me-and using dope right now is not an option-I must make it through as I have before-and get clean again.
Moneys gone/my brain hurts-and constantly kicking is a horrorshow.
I wish you all the best..We all can do it..support really is essential.
alice

[Zeuss]

Very good comments and responses. Plenty of good info on the site in general and the topic of Sub. Im sorry OC that you had a rough ride, and you were the one I was mentioning in above post, just didnt want to put youre name out there. But by you telling us youre side, it most definitely makes us not to go past the 21 day mark, and to utilize the least amount as possible. So in actuallity you were one of the first sets of people on the Sub short term to give us input(I know FLaddict did a short stint and said she was OK)  Now North2South can definitely tell us how he feels in the days to come after jumping off the Sub in just 4 days. And maybe he just wanted to get through the Major parts of WD, but Kudos to him for a quick jump. I agree that you have to go through some kind of WDs as I have but it is mainly the jittery legs, nothing else. Stools are back to normal, can think clearer, a little lethargic but am taking plenty of Protein and vitamin drinks, energy bars and anything else that is good for the body even if it doesnt taste good..    So Im into the early parts of the 8th day and i havent taken any Sub in 18 hours, have been up since 6 and I feel the jitters in the leg. Thats it. I know before when I detoxed the first time with nothing it took about two weeks to feel good. So for now i will just put ONE FOOT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER   ZEUSS

[ochooked]

This is a great thread.   Everyone has some good points.  Most of you know my experience --  I used Sub for 21 days and then suffered horrible W/D's for two months.  Other's who posted on here (Refusingbondage) were on Sub for about 2 years and also suffered horribly.  To answer Zeuss's question though -- I would strongly recommend you only take the 1 mg and allow your body to begin and go through the (limited) W/D's the way you are doing.  You are the one who can finally answer the question for many potential sub users  -- the question of can you do this and quit in under 2 weeks and have an easier time of the W/D's.   In my case the physical W/D's lasted almost 2 months - they were not fun -to say the least.  Had I known, I would have used Percs and Norcos to taper --- and jump when I got below 10 mg per day.  Yes, there would still have been some W/D's but no where near the pain I suffered.   I am convinced that anyone who is not willing to go through some W/D will likely not be able to quit.  I started on this forum in July simply looking for info on the Rapid Detox ---  I get enough information to save me about $15,000 by going with a program that was (at the least) not effective, and at the worst (dangerous).  So, perhaps this site helped to save my life.  The question of the evils of Sub never came up until I was already on it.  Then I got off in 21 days - not soon enough.  Hey guys -- no matter which way you use to quit -- quitting is the best thing you can do ---- Live is so much better than being on Opiates ---- I had forgotten just how wonderful things can be in the 'real world'  . All the best.

[worried878]

and we are unbiased here...i say "we" as we are a group here and "we" stick together on things...for a while we had big arguments about the sub issue and it was like a group "for" and "against" the sub...but it has all evened out and we support each other and encourage education and knowing about the drug...some people need it for a long  time and addiction to sub/methadone may not b the biggest concern compared to what would happen if they were not on it...also people here do not dog people on methadone either as they r very similar/sub and methadone in many ways....both these groups are getting their life straight and some may need it for life..especially a chronic pain patient as i would rather take 20 mg of methadone a day being 2 pills than 10-15 lortabs a day and buy them off the street and the same with sub if that day ever comes to where i cant work without some type of narcotic pain relief/being a chronic pain patient myself...but most here want no narcotics eventually in their lives/and i think with the help of this forum i will make it as well without either one to stay on top of my life...others may have to take something forever...but i think we all have the goal of stopping the "chase"...living normally in society and staying off the streets/not being embarrassed at pharmacies and doctor's offices cos we r addicts seeking drugs anymore.....living productive lives and continuing with our recovery together...
I think in some ways the sub racquet is worse than the methadone clinics as people r making tons of money off this stuff while methadone remains fairly cheap...drug companies are tricking people/sub companies lie to people like they did about tramadol..my pain mgt doctor will not let a tram sales person in his office!  they lied to people way after they knew the drug was addictive to continue sales and it is not right..there r still alot of people who do not know tramadol is habit forming and if u r not in the medical profession u could easily be unknowingly addicted to it///not if u r on this forum tho!  LOL..u learn in a day of posting that trams and sub are habitforming and i personally have not been addicted to either but i believe our members who have been that they r both dangerous drugs if u dont know what u r doing...i believe the memebers over the pharmaceutical companies in a heartbeat....making money off of people's pain and misery is LOW!

[acts2_21]

I'm getting tired of "being on something" And yes I'm getting off the Sub too but have to go slow. I am still at 4mg twice a day. SO I am really glad to have found this website,as I've said B-4 and as "worried 878" said above with the truth & Sub on here, I really agree. I  found that the Pharm. Company is paying individuals to start a forum and answer concerns or questions about the sub. (supporting people to start it) thats why I am here also. I could not find any other place that seemed unbiased.

[worried878]

I think this forum is the one of the only "honest" forums as far as sub is concerned from what i hear...many glorify it and many are not educated about it..as i dont know if most of the doctors are really educated on it...if u come here u will get the real deal from those who have experienced sub...no one will say it is not a good thing for those who need it...but no one will say it is an easy ride either..they will give u the truth and let u decide if it is something u want to chance..this seems to be a conservative forum..take it for what it is but it is a great place to be

[Zeuss]

I guess we are all different in our metabolism and states of mind. I agree being positive minded is a huge factor in quitting. And for the amount you were on you sure didnt take a lot of the Sub. I know we are all being positive or else we wouldnt be attempting this. Your feedback definitely will help others. Keep us posted  N2S.        ZEUSS

[North2South]

I had a 240+mg a day roxy habbit along with 200+mg of oxys also and last sunday scored me a few 8mg of suboxone to help me detox. SUN. itook a whole and MON. I took a half TUE. I took a 1/4 WED a 1/4 THURS. i threw the rest out hoping that it took care of the first few days of the real bad wds. Its now sat. night and though i have some symptoms its not as bad. YOU GOTTA WANT TO QUIT! THE HARDEST IS THE MIND ****!