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clonidine dose in opiate withdrawal

Hello, I am currently planning to get off pills after 5 years. I am very scared of the wd symptoms. I was wondering if anyone has tried clonidine. How much did you take and did it help.
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Avatar universal
I've been  drinking  poppy  seed  tea  for 4 yrs, I lost everything  because  of  my  addiction  but decided  to be honest  with  everyone  and find help...i had a Dr appt this morning  trying  to  get  a referral  into a detox facility  because I've tried so many times to get clean, once I told my gf she started to taper  me off but I went thru  3 days  of withdraw  symptoms...that is until!!! Dunh dun da duuuuuh!!!! I took the first  dose of 0.1 mg of clonidine, **** feels like  I relapsed, all ad symptoms  are  gone!!! I hope this isn't temporary but it was a miracle  for me
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3197167 tn?1348968606
Hi Bubbalooey...welcome to the forum.  The thread that you have posted on is a very old thread and won't get much visibility.  If you will find the "post a question" tab at the top of this page and copy and paste this comment of yours, you will get more responses.

I can understand why you are in a panic mode since you ran out of your subs, but it will stay in your system long enough due to it's half life to get you thru until tomorrow when you see the psych dr and get your sub rx.
I would caution you to think about long term use of subs.....they are much harder to get off of and much stronger than Norco.
Didn't your rehab give you tapering instructions or advise you about anything?  It would be really wise to put the word suboxone in the search bar at the top and read all you can before you make your decision about getting more subs.  Hope you'll post a new question so the current forum member can see what you are experiencing and give you some support.
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Avatar universal
I've been on Norcos 10/325 every day for about two years.  My dr prescribed that, instructing not to take more than 5 pills per day.  I was good with obeying at first but for the last several weeks I upped to about 10-20 pills a day.  I started to suffer withdrawals after I ran out of them too soon.  Ended up in rehab, was given Suboxone which helped alot.  After discharge I only got a script for ten days worth of Suboxone (2 films per day).  I set up an appt to see an addiction psychiatrist but couldn't get in to see him sooner.  I took my last Suboxone two days ago and now feel the crappy wd again (not as severe but bad enough to make me miss work).  I called my pain specialist (whom I got my Norco from and I never told him about my rehab) and told that specialist that the pharmacy refused to refill the script of Norco yesterday which is due yesterday cuz the pharmacist noticed in their database that I've been taking Suboxone recently and wanted to call my specialist first before filling it.  I told my specialist over the phone today that I started to take Suboxone which seems to help my neck pain but am out of it, and my appt to see my psychiatrist isn't until tomorrow evening.  I told him that I'm feeling crappy.  He called in Clonidine in patch form to be worn at all time for one week, then replace the patch.  The dosage says 0.1mg/24 hr.  It doesn't seem to help, maybe I should be patient and give the patch some time to work.  I'm hoping that tomorrow this psychiatrist will prescribe Suboxone, but after reading all of your posts I'm starting to wonder if it's a bad idea to be put on Suboxone on a long term basis.  Plus your posts don't mention dosage of Clonidine and in what form.  Clonidine seems to help most of you to avoid wd but is it in pill form or how many mg??  It doesn't help get rid of my neck pain like Suboxone can.  Boy, am I confused?!!!
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Avatar universal
That was right on!   Loved it!  I know withdrawal is hard.  Very hard.  Life doesn't make it easy because we are always busy.  I think the hard part is finding the down time to recover.  That's what makes it hard.  School-work-family-shopping.  Seems like we put our health and recovery last.  We are like a computer that crashes.  We still don't shut down?  We count on meds to go like the enerzier bunny.  But eventually he crashes too?
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Avatar universal
How about, at the risk of stating the obvious, any opiate addict would be advised to reduce slowly until you are down to a bare minimum,then consider trying clonidine . Most say it helps, from slightly to a lot. Just thought we'd make a suggestion . Then it is comparable to a slight flu symptoms, for a week. Totally aggree with experiencedopiate, it's definitely true that you are just changing drug. I was started on subutex , quickly realised I was in no better position. I returned to an eighth a day of H and gradually reduced at my pace. Until I was using a point a day. Got clean. Good luck.
Helpful - 0
6577573 tn?1385004776
this medication IS not for the anything other than to SUPPORT withdrawl, not remove withdrawl symptoms from OPIATE medications. You don't want withdrawl, don't get started.
Read the information and if needed have someone who understands, explain it to you as well. Better yet, do yourself a lifelong favour and get off all the crap your putting into your system. Someone loves you even if you don't love yourself.
There is no crown for bragging on addiction when your dead.
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Avatar universal
Don't use Imodium! It is technically an opiate (it just can't pass the blood brain barrier) that can't get you high, but it can prolong withdraw symptoms by days and even weeks. Since it can't pass the BBB the only effect you get similar to other opiates is the constipation.  
Helpful - 0
5763738 tn?1373846792
tried both Gabapetin and clonodine and by far I would go with the Gaba much fewer side effects and no WD's with Gabapetin. I tried clondine when I went off Trams and for sure it has more side effects and Does not stop all the WD's like Gabapetin does.
Michael
Helpful - 0
5826063 tn?1374970441
I was taking the same amount myself, IV too....it's absolutely possible.  I used to outdope all the big fellas(I'm a slender female).  It happens, some of us have an unbelievable tolerance....  My councilor said the she had seen other girls with a tolerance like mine, so it does happen and it *****....damn spendy
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Truth be told...the only real, sure fire way to kick any habit....pills, needles or whatever be your choice of drug is; pure self determination! I was on met, using needles and any other method,for over 12 years. I decided, for my children, to stop....cold turkey! The worst, and hardest thing I ever did! 2 weeks of seclusion, and done. Not easy, by far! But that was 21 years ago! Clean since! Buy still have thoughts about it to this day! ONE DAY AT A TIME ! Goodluck to all!
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Avatar universal
This topic is now closed.  If you'd like to start a new topic, you can do so by clicking the "Post a Question" button at the top of the page.  Thanks!

Claire

________________________________________________

                ** CLOSED DISCUSSION**
            NO MORE COMMENTS PLEASE
________________________________________________
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Avatar universal
I have been taken stong oxy for almost 7 year..was taken 4/80mg times release 2times day  plus 4/30mg meta release 4times a day,did that about a year ,but was never high went to wrk everyday nobody did no,was employee of year"giggle" same job 8 years,but when i didnt have i can't,think move or talk right,and angry..have dwindled my self down to living maintaining on 2 perk/vics 5mg every 2 days,but if i get to the 3rd day ,i cant be focus just wana dye ~_~ i dont have a doc,the few times i saw i cant explain or the dont hear,im lost i really dont think 2pills every 2 is a prob..but i would like to not take anything,never even to.pills till i was 31 years.old,had three child naturally..what happened how do i fix it...

......the
......peach..~_~
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Avatar universal
I'm so sick & tired of doctors time & time again going straight to clonodine when it comes to opiate w/d.It's blood pressure medication-that's all.Yes,some people's blood pressure skyrockets when in w/d,but clonodine,IF it does anything at all for you,will just make you feel like you're still just as sick but w/a lead suit on.For me,it does absolutely nothing whatsoever,& when the first thing out of a doctor's mouth is 'clonodine',I have to roll my eyes to myself & think,'here we go again'.I'm so sick of doctors thinking that feeling any w/d is just 'part of it'.It' doesn't have to be,& that idea is so antiquated.It's unneccecary w/today's technology & medicine for someone to be THAT uncomfortable during detox.I swear,doctors seem to think that the more uncomfortable you are that the better it works.To the point where I've seen facilities use something that works great,switch to something that doesn't do ****,then try to tell you 'studies have found that it's better this way'.Any idiot knows that the more comfortable you are during detox,the faster your body will detox.If you're that uncomfortable,you can't eat,drink,sleep,you get dehydrated,& your metabolism slows.So the sickness lingers & lingers.But since the medical books say it lasts 3 days,the doctors think that's that.They need to eliminate clonodine from any thoughts of opiate detox,forget it was ever used for that at any point in time,because it's a joke.It may help used in conjunction w/an alternative opiate-you can take all the meds in the world,if it's not in conjunction w/an opiate,they won't work.At all.Period.
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Avatar universal
I was on Methadone, 10 mgs, 7 pills a day, for almost five yrs. and was cut off cold turkey as I had vicodan in my urine test (prescribed from the dentist after a tooth pulled).  Methadone does not work on dental pain in my case.  Anyways, I was cut off on May 14, 2012 and I am still going thru withdrawals, not as bad as first, when I thought I was going to die, seriously, and for me Clonidine didn't do much or least I was too "pill sick" to notice....what did help was marijuana, which I eventually got a "medical marijuana" script.I hardly even use that now, maybe twice a week to sleep.
I wish my docs, who made me feel like a criminal when I was cut off, and them not even acknowledging my comment, when I told reminded them that I didn't ask for Methadone, you wrote it.  It literally ruined my life.  So if you can,  just don't take ANY meds or use mild ones moderately....really try to tough it out..I'm at 5 months free of painkillers, miss them everyday, but like any other drug you take it one day at a time.  Good luck.
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Avatar universal
8 30mg oxies isnt that much at all actually....to someone with no opiate tolerance yes, it might put them out, but to a seasoned veteran of opiates like myself once was, 8 would be done by 10 or 11 am.....in my last days of using roxies before i made the full plunge into heroin, i was going through anywhere between 25-40 of the little blue guys each day...sometimes snorting them, sometimes slamming them but 90% of the time i smoked them on foil....just because you think 8 per day is a lot doesnt mean that the body cant become accustomed to much much more. :0oO
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Avatar universal
I FOR GOT TO AD I ONLY TOOK THE SUBOXONE  FOR  10 DAYS  I DID NOT WANT TO GET ADDICTED TO ANY THING ELSE I DONT KNOW BUT I THINK I REALLY HAD THE WORST PROBLEM EVER. I TOOK 8MG FOR 5DAYS AND THEN BROKE THE PILL INTO 4 PIECES FOR 5 DAYS AND THAT WAS IT I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF OFF AND ON SWEATS AND COLD FLASHES! FOR ABOUT 3 DAYS AFTER THAT I WOKE UP FEELING FREE AGAIN I HAD NOT FELT NORMAL SINCE JANUARY 2009 ANYONE READING THIS MESSAGE IF YOU CAN DONT NOT TAKE MORE THAN 8MG OF SUBOXONE A DAYFOR NO MORE THAN10-14 DAYS  YOU WILL HATE THE DAY YOU EVER CAME IN CONTACT WITH THIS MEDICATION
I PROMISE YOU THAT.
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Avatar universal
GREAT CODY I ONLY ADVISE SUBOXONE. I WAS AD TO PERCOCET FOR ALMOST 4 YEAR I GOT SOME SUBS CHANGE MY LIFE I DONT EVER EVER WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER PERCOCET  HABBIT IN LIFE THE WORST THING I EVER HADDDDD.......... 15.10MG ADAY
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
GREAT CODY I ONLY ADVISE SUBOXONE. I WAS AD TO PERCOCET FOR ALMOST 4 YEAR I GOT SOME SUBS CHANGE MY LIFE I DONT EVER EVER WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER PERCOCET  HABBIT IN LIFE THE WORST THING I EVER HADDDDD.......... 15.10MG ADAY
Helpful - 0
1796826 tn?1578874779
Wow, just realized that this thread is so long you actually have to scroll up for that FAQ. Who's the noob now :)
Helpful - 0
1796826 tn?1578874779
Hmmm, this thread is long, old, and aside from the first seven posts, completely off it's own topic. Quite a lively debate of the pros and cons of the partial/full opioid antagonists going on though.

Scroll all the way down and and on the right there's a very good FAQ on this topic.
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Avatar universal
ok, I'm a newbie here on this forum, and I accidentally submitted the same long post three times... and I am SUCH a newbie that I can't even figure out how to delete the duplicate posts, or even how to contact a forum admin to remove them. can someone help me out before I get reported for spamming or something of that nature? thanks in advance!
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Avatar universal
Ok, disclaimers first, I am not a doctor, nor a professional expert in medicine or pharmacology in any official capacity. What I AM is a chronic pain sufferer (high-speed head-on collision resulting in too many cervical spine issues to list here), and I happen to have done a lot of research.  However, my primary physician and I have developed an ongoing strategy when it comes to dealing with chronic pain every day: "my goal should be to become as "functional as I can, not as "comfortable as I can". I understand that I am going to have a degree of pain for most if not the rest of my life. I've accepted that. now I want my life back. And that means work. Through some ups and downs along the way, I have settled into a balanced combination of physical therapy and several non-narcotic medications to manage my various symptoms, all in addition to the moderate level of opiate drug therapy that forms my base-line of pain relief.  

I was lucky enough to find a doctor that has taken time to find a long term pain management strategy that goes beyond writing me a script and showing me the door. I wish everyone we as lucky, dare I say "blessed" as I. Sadly that is not the case, and many who just want an end to the pain end up going down a road that swallows them up before they even know what they're really dealing with.

So, what I'm about to say here applies to several of the posts/replies on this thread, so I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but this diatribe about the inherent "evilness" of pharmaceutical companies is concerning to say the least. even disturbing, and I'll try to explain why. you're not going to see a lot of accusations and foul language that is marked out with "******". (by the way, it seems like the people who share the most extreme stories also use the worst language. I am not in any way lessening the struggle everyone here has faced, and I'm not doubting anyone's' commitment or resolve to better themselves or put their live back together. I respect that, I promise.)

But in this post, I saw some things that were said as if they were based in facts, and it was honestly, very alarming. I'm not going to recap everything I saw, that will all become obvious enough really soon. First, making blanket statements like "all pharmaceutical companies" or "any doctor" etc, it's ridiculously irresponsible and it takes away from your credibility. Secondly, the idea that these companies are modern day drug peddlers that want to take their place as "legalized dealers" just to keep people hooked on drugs, is absurd. I wont argue that there is evidence that suggests that some diseases seem to have more money spent on "treatments" than they do on an actual cure, but that is another discussion entirely. Here is why: Drugs like suboxone, subutex and methadone are long acting opiates that have a longer half-life than other opioids/opiates, this allows the patient (intentionally avoiding the word user here) to maintain a more level blood concentration than they would with a shorter acting opiate, allowing them to take less of the drug over-all. the problem here is that too many recovering patients view the drug as a replacement instead of a step-down treatment. use any opiate long enough and you're going to have problems, period. furthermore, suboxone, methadone and subutex (and others) all have a naloxone component in their formulation that will cause a precipitated onset of opiate withdrawal if the drug is administered using any illicit or unintended method. And, in regards to the statements about doctors intentionally putting patients onto a drug that is "every bit as addictive, but give none of the pleasure" should demonstrate its' own absurdity if you read the sentence more than once. The whole idea is to decrease its potential for abuse. doctors don't prescribe optiates for "pleasure"; they do it to treat a condition, not to make people high. It was considered a major breakthrough in the medical community when an opiate compound was developed that offered not only an option to aid recovering addicts, but also to treat chronic pain sufferers (like myself...) while lowering the potential for abuse at the same time. Shifting focus here, the DEA maintains a strict schedule of controlled substances and spends lord knows how much money (tax dollars...) every year to enforce regulation and monitoring of controlled substance distribution, from top to bottom (doctors to pharmacies and everything in-between) not to mention the money invested for research and testing. Add all of this up and do the math, the conclusion is pretty obvious.. why on earth would they bother with any of this if all that was intended from the beginning was to get everyone "hooked on drugs for life". Any doctor worth their salt will recognize that being on opiates long-term with out any consideration of alternate means of pain relief is not wise. the reality is that many pain patients actually don't want to investigate alternate means, they want their Rx's. And when their doctors cut them off (whether gradually or cold-turkey) some, not all, but some patients escalate their habits to other drugs or even illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating, or plain recreational use. This kind of rhetoric about the inherent evils of the system are what happens when dramatic rationalization overpowers reason. and to a greater extent, the desire to place responsibility on someone or something else. Again, everyone on this forum is dealing with something or knows someone who is.. it's a rough road to travel, and even worse if you travel it alone. and one thing everyone here can agree on is that people who have not experienced opiate dependence (whether it's physical dependence or psychological, or both) will never understand what it is like to go through it all and come out the other end... and some would argue that for some, the struggle never really ends. but don't lose sight of the facts, because sweeping statements like the ones in the previous post can give people who are looking for help the entirely wrong idea of what they should do. doctors are not evil. Yes, there are good doctors, and a whole lot of bad ones.. even criminals here and there, but mostly the bad ones are just negligent and irresponsible, but hey, that's why it is important to do research. keep the responsibility on you. don't blame the world. If you do that, than when you get to the day when you are free of dependence on opiates (or anything for that matter) you'll know that you got YOURSELF there. and it will mean all that much more. But if you try to find an easy road, and and crash and burn when it doesn't happen, accusing the medical industry of being evil wont get you anywhere, and you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle until you change your thinking....

Good luck to everyone here and to anyone else who will come here for help. As most people here have said, it's all about one day at a time, and surrounding yourself with like minded people who have lived through it as well. they also say that removing yourself from enabling environments is also important but that is a lot easier said than done for most.

The most important thing I can finish with is this: if you've reached the point where you know you can't do it alone, look for help,, and if you don't find it the first time, keep looking, and then keep looking some more. Don't find someone or something to blame. Ok, I'm done. everyone I just royally ticked off are free to tear this post apart... But I hoped I helped more than I potentially angered.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Ok, disclaimers first, I am not a doctor, nor a professional expert in medicine or pharmacology in any official capacity. What I AM is a chronic pain sufferer (high-speed head-on collision resulting in too many cervical spine issues to list here), and I happen to have done a lot of research.  However, my primary physician and I have developed an ongoing strategy when it comes to dealing with chronic pain every day: "my goal should be to become as "functional as I can, not as "comfortable as I can". I understand that I am going to have a degree of pain for most if not the rest of my life. I've accepted that. now I want my life back. And that means work. Through some ups and downs along the way, I have settled into a balanced combination of physical therapy and several non-narcotic medications to manage my various symptoms, all in addition to the moderate level of opiate drug therapy that forms my base-line of pain relief.  

I was lucky enough to find a doctor that has taken time to find a long term pain management strategy that goes beyond writing me a script and showing me the door. I wish everyone we as lucky, dare I say "blessed" as I. Sadly that is not the case, and many who just want an end to the pain end up going down a road that swallows them up before they even know what they're really dealing with.

So, what I'm about to say here applies to several of the posts/replies on this thread, so I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but this diatribe about the inherent "evilness" of pharmaceutical companies is concerning to say the least. even disturbing, and I'll try to explain why. you're not going to see a lot of accusations and foul language that is marked out with "******". (by the way, it seems like the people who share the most extreme stories also use the worst language. I am not in any way lessening the struggle everyone here has faced, and I'm not doubting anyone's' commitment or resolve to better themselves or put their live back together. I respect that, I promise.)

But in this post, I saw some things that were said as if they were based in facts, and it was honestly, very alarming. I'm not going to recap everything I saw, that will all become obvious enough really soon. First, making blanket statements like "all pharmaceutical companies" or "any doctor" etc, it's ridiculously irresponsible and it takes away from your credibility. Secondly, the idea that these companies are modern day drug peddlers that want to take their place as "legalized dealers" just to keep people hooked on drugs, is absurd. I wont argue that there is evidence that suggests that some diseases seem to have more money spent on "treatments" than they do on an actual cure, but that is another discussion entirely. Here is why: Drugs like suboxone, subutex and methadone are long acting opiates that have a longer half-life than other opioids/opiates, this allows the patient (intentionally avoiding the word user here) to maintain a more level blood concentration than they would with a shorter acting opiate, allowing them to take less of the drug over-all. the problem here is that too many recovering patients view the drug as a replacement instead of a step-down treatment. use any opiate long enough and you're going to have problems, period. furthermore, suboxone, methadone and subutex (and others) all have a naloxone component in their formulation that will cause a precipitated onset of opiate withdrawal if the drug is administered using any illicit or unintended method. And, in regards to the statements about doctors intentionally putting patients onto a drug that is "every bit as addictive, but give none of the pleasure" should demonstrate its' own absurdity if you read the sentence more than once. The whole idea is to decrease its potential for abuse. doctors don't prescribe optiates for "pleasure"; they do it to treat a condition, not to make people high. It was considered a major breakthrough in the medical community when an opiate compound was developed that offered not only an option to aid recovering addicts, but also to treat chronic pain sufferers (like myself...) while lowering the potential for abuse at the same time. Shifting focus here, the DEA maintains a strict schedule of controlled substances and spends lord knows how much money (tax dollars...) every year to enforce regulation and monitoring of controlled substance distribution, from top to bottom (doctors to pharmacies and everything in-between) not to mention the money invested for research and testing. Add all of this up and do the math, the conclusion is pretty obvious.. why on earth would they bother with any of this if all that was intended from the beginning was to get everyone "hooked on drugs for life". Any doctor worth their salt will recognize that being on opiates long-term with out any consideration of alternate means of pain relief is not wise. the reality is that many pain patients actually don't want to investigate alternate means, they want their Rx's. And when their doctors cut them off (whether gradually or cold-turkey) some, not all, but some patients escalate their habits to other drugs or even illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating, or plain recreational use. This kind of rhetoric about the inherent evils of the system are what happens when dramatic rationalization overpowers reason. and to a greater extent, the desire to place responsibility on someone or something else. Again, everyone on this forum is dealing with something or knows someone who is.. it's a rough road to travel, and even worse if you travel it alone. and one thing everyone here can agree on is that people who have not experienced opiate dependence (whether it's physical dependence or psychological, or both) will never understand what it is like to go through it all and come out the other end... and some would argue that for some, the struggle never really ends. but don't lose sight of the facts, because sweeping statements like the ones in the previous post can give people who are looking for help the entirely wrong idea of what they should do. doctors are not evil. Yes, there are good doctors, and a whole lot of bad ones.. even criminals here and there, but mostly the bad ones are just negligent and irresponsible, but hey, that's why it is important to do research. keep the responsibility on you. don't blame the world. If you do that, than when you get to the day when you are free of dependence on opiates (or anything for that matter) you'll know that you got YOURSELF there. and it will mean all that much more. But if you try to find an easy road, and and crash and burn when it doesn't happen, accusing the medical industry of being evil wont get you anywhere, and you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle until you change your thinking....

Good luck to everyone here and to anyone else who will come here for help. As most people here have said, it's all about one day at a time, and surrounding yourself with like minded people who have lived through it as well. they also say that removing yourself from enabling environments is also important but that is a lot easier said than done for most.

The most important thing I can finish with is this: if you've reached the point where you know you can't do it alone, look for help,, and if you don't find it the first time, keep looking, and then keep looking some more. Don't find someone or something to blame. Ok, I'm done. everyone I just royally ticked off are free to tear this post apart... But I hoped I helped more than I potentially angered.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Ok, disclaimers first, I am not a doctor, nor a professional expert in medicine or pharmacology in any official capacity. What I AM is a chronic pain sufferer (high-speed head-on collision resulting in too many cervical spine issues to list here), and I happen to have done a lot of research.  However, my primary physician and I have developed an ongoing strategy when it comes to dealing with chronic pain every day: "my goal should be to become as "functional as I can, not as "comfortable as I can". I understand that I am going to have a degree of pain for most if not the rest of my life. I've accepted that. now I want my life back. And that means work. Through some ups and downs along the way, I have settled into a balanced combination of physical therapy and several non-narcotic medications to manage my various symptoms, all in addition to the moderate level of opiate drug therapy that forms my base-line of pain relief.  

I was lucky enough to find a doctor that has taken time to find a long term pain management strategy that goes beyond writing me a script and showing me the door. I wish everyone we as lucky, dare I say "blessed" as I. Sadly that is not the case, and many who just want an end to the pain end up going down a road that swallows them up before they even know what they're really dealing with.

So, what I'm about to say here applies to several of the posts/replies on this thread, so I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but this diatribe about the inherent "evilness" of pharmaceutical companies is concerning to say the least. even disturbing, and I'll try to explain why. you're not going to see a lot of accusations and foul language that is marked out with "******". (by the way, it seems like the people who share the most extreme stories also use the worst language. I am not in any way lessening the struggle everyone here has faced, and I'm not doubting anyone's' commitment or resolve to better themselves or put their live back together. I respect that, I promise.)

But in this post, I saw some things that were said as if they were based in facts, and it was honestly, very alarming. I'm not going to recap everything I saw, that will all become obvious enough really soon. First, making blanket statements like "all pharmaceutical companies" or "any doctor" etc, it's ridiculously irresponsible and it takes away from your credibility. Secondly, the idea that these companies are modern day drug peddlers that want to take their place as "legalized dealers" just to keep people hooked on drugs, is absurd. I wont argue that there is evidence that suggests that some diseases seem to have more money spent on "treatments" than they do on an actual cure, but that is another discussion entirely. Here is why: Drugs like suboxone, subutex and methadone are long acting opiates that have a longer half-life than other opioids/opiates, this allows the patient (intentionally avoiding the word user here) to maintain a more level blood concentration than they would with a shorter acting opiate, allowing them to take less of the drug over-all. the problem here is that too many recovering patients view the drug as a replacement instead of a step-down treatment. use any opiate long enough and you're going to have problems, period. furthermore, suboxone, methadone and subutex (and others) all have a naloxone component in their formulation that will cause a precipitated onset of opiate withdrawal if the drug is administered using any illicit or unintended method. And, in regards to the statements about doctors intentionally putting patients onto a drug that is "every bit as addictive, but give none of the pleasure" should demonstrate its' own absurdity if you read the sentence more than once. The whole idea is to decrease its potential for abuse. doctors don't prescribe optiates for "pleasure"; they do it to treat a condition, not to make people high. It was considered a major breakthrough in the medical community when an opiate compound was developed that offered not only an option to aid recovering addicts, but also to treat chronic pain sufferers (like myself...) while lowering the potential for abuse at the same time. Shifting focus here, the DEA maintains a strict schedule of controlled substances and spends lord knows how much money (tax dollars...) every year to enforce regulation and monitoring of controlled substance distribution, from top to bottom (doctors to pharmacies and everything in-between) not to mention the money invested for research and testing. Add all of this up and do the math, the conclusion is pretty obvious.. why on earth would they bother with any of this if all that was intended from the beginning was to get everyone "hooked on drugs for life". Any doctor worth their salt will recognize that being on opiates long-term with out any consideration of alternate means of pain relief is not wise. the reality is that many pain patients actually don't want to investigate alternate means, they want their Rx's. And when their doctors cut them off (whether gradually or cold-turkey) some, not all, but some patients escalate their habits to other drugs or even illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating, or plain recreational use. This kind of rhetoric about the inherent evils of the system are what happens when dramatic rationalization overpowers reason. and to a greater extent, the desire to place responsibility on someone or something else. Again, everyone on this forum is dealing with something or knows someone who is.. it's a rough road to travel, and even worse if you travel it alone. and one thing everyone here can agree on is that people who have not experienced opiate dependence (whether it's physical dependence or psychological, or both) will never understand what it is like to go through it all and come out the other end... and some would argue that for some, the struggle never really ends. but don't lose sight of the facts, because sweeping statements like the ones in the previous post can give people who are looking for help the entirely wrong idea of what they should do. doctors are not evil. Yes, there are good doctors, and a whole lot of bad ones.. even criminals here and there, but mostly the bad ones are just negligent and irresponsible, but hey, that's why it is important to do research. keep the responsibility on you. don't blame the world. If you do that, than when you get to the day when you are free of dependence on opiates (or anything for that matter) you'll know that you got YOURSELF there. and it will mean all that much more. But if you try to find an easy road, and and crash and burn when it doesn't happen, accusing the medical industry of being evil wont get you anywhere, and you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle until you change your thinking....

Good luck to everyone here and to anyone else who will come here for help. As most people here have said, it's all about one day at a time, and surrounding yourself with like minded people who have lived through it as well. they also say that removing yourself from enabling environments is also important but that is a lot easier said than done for most.

The most important thing I can finish with is this: if you've reached the point where you know you can't do it alone, look for help,, and if you don't find it the first time, keep looking, and then keep looking some more. Don't find someone or something to blame. Ok, I'm done. everyone I just royally ticked off are free to tear this post apart... But I hoped I helped more than I potentially angered.
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