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clonidine dose in opiate withdrawal

Hello, I am currently planning to get off pills after 5 years. I am very scared of the wd symptoms. I was wondering if anyone has tried clonidine. How much did you take and did it help.
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1796826 tn?1578874779
Wow, just realized that this thread is so long you actually have to scroll up for that FAQ. Who's the noob now :)
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1796826 tn?1578874779
Hmmm, this thread is long, old, and aside from the first seven posts, completely off it's own topic. Quite a lively debate of the pros and cons of the partial/full opioid antagonists going on though.

Scroll all the way down and and on the right there's a very good FAQ on this topic.
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Avatar universal
ok, I'm a newbie here on this forum, and I accidentally submitted the same long post three times... and I am SUCH a newbie that I can't even figure out how to delete the duplicate posts, or even how to contact a forum admin to remove them. can someone help me out before I get reported for spamming or something of that nature? thanks in advance!
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Avatar universal
Ok, disclaimers first, I am not a doctor, nor a professional expert in medicine or pharmacology in any official capacity. What I AM is a chronic pain sufferer (high-speed head-on collision resulting in too many cervical spine issues to list here), and I happen to have done a lot of research.  However, my primary physician and I have developed an ongoing strategy when it comes to dealing with chronic pain every day: "my goal should be to become as "functional as I can, not as "comfortable as I can". I understand that I am going to have a degree of pain for most if not the rest of my life. I've accepted that. now I want my life back. And that means work. Through some ups and downs along the way, I have settled into a balanced combination of physical therapy and several non-narcotic medications to manage my various symptoms, all in addition to the moderate level of opiate drug therapy that forms my base-line of pain relief.  

I was lucky enough to find a doctor that has taken time to find a long term pain management strategy that goes beyond writing me a script and showing me the door. I wish everyone we as lucky, dare I say "blessed" as I. Sadly that is not the case, and many who just want an end to the pain end up going down a road that swallows them up before they even know what they're really dealing with.

So, what I'm about to say here applies to several of the posts/replies on this thread, so I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but this diatribe about the inherent "evilness" of pharmaceutical companies is concerning to say the least. even disturbing, and I'll try to explain why. you're not going to see a lot of accusations and foul language that is marked out with "******". (by the way, it seems like the people who share the most extreme stories also use the worst language. I am not in any way lessening the struggle everyone here has faced, and I'm not doubting anyone's' commitment or resolve to better themselves or put their live back together. I respect that, I promise.)

But in this post, I saw some things that were said as if they were based in facts, and it was honestly, very alarming. I'm not going to recap everything I saw, that will all become obvious enough really soon. First, making blanket statements like "all pharmaceutical companies" or "any doctor" etc, it's ridiculously irresponsible and it takes away from your credibility. Secondly, the idea that these companies are modern day drug peddlers that want to take their place as "legalized dealers" just to keep people hooked on drugs, is absurd. I wont argue that there is evidence that suggests that some diseases seem to have more money spent on "treatments" than they do on an actual cure, but that is another discussion entirely. Here is why: Drugs like suboxone, subutex and methadone are long acting opiates that have a longer half-life than other opioids/opiates, this allows the patient (intentionally avoiding the word user here) to maintain a more level blood concentration than they would with a shorter acting opiate, allowing them to take less of the drug over-all. the problem here is that too many recovering patients view the drug as a replacement instead of a step-down treatment. use any opiate long enough and you're going to have problems, period. furthermore, suboxone, methadone and subutex (and others) all have a naloxone component in their formulation that will cause a precipitated onset of opiate withdrawal if the drug is administered using any illicit or unintended method. And, in regards to the statements about doctors intentionally putting patients onto a drug that is "every bit as addictive, but give none of the pleasure" should demonstrate its' own absurdity if you read the sentence more than once. The whole idea is to decrease its potential for abuse. doctors don't prescribe optiates for "pleasure"; they do it to treat a condition, not to make people high. It was considered a major breakthrough in the medical community when an opiate compound was developed that offered not only an option to aid recovering addicts, but also to treat chronic pain sufferers (like myself...) while lowering the potential for abuse at the same time. Shifting focus here, the DEA maintains a strict schedule of controlled substances and spends lord knows how much money (tax dollars...) every year to enforce regulation and monitoring of controlled substance distribution, from top to bottom (doctors to pharmacies and everything in-between) not to mention the money invested for research and testing. Add all of this up and do the math, the conclusion is pretty obvious.. why on earth would they bother with any of this if all that was intended from the beginning was to get everyone "hooked on drugs for life". Any doctor worth their salt will recognize that being on opiates long-term with out any consideration of alternate means of pain relief is not wise. the reality is that many pain patients actually don't want to investigate alternate means, they want their Rx's. And when their doctors cut them off (whether gradually or cold-turkey) some, not all, but some patients escalate their habits to other drugs or even illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating, or plain recreational use. This kind of rhetoric about the inherent evils of the system are what happens when dramatic rationalization overpowers reason. and to a greater extent, the desire to place responsibility on someone or something else. Again, everyone on this forum is dealing with something or knows someone who is.. it's a rough road to travel, and even worse if you travel it alone. and one thing everyone here can agree on is that people who have not experienced opiate dependence (whether it's physical dependence or psychological, or both) will never understand what it is like to go through it all and come out the other end... and some would argue that for some, the struggle never really ends. but don't lose sight of the facts, because sweeping statements like the ones in the previous post can give people who are looking for help the entirely wrong idea of what they should do. doctors are not evil. Yes, there are good doctors, and a whole lot of bad ones.. even criminals here and there, but mostly the bad ones are just negligent and irresponsible, but hey, that's why it is important to do research. keep the responsibility on you. don't blame the world. If you do that, than when you get to the day when you are free of dependence on opiates (or anything for that matter) you'll know that you got YOURSELF there. and it will mean all that much more. But if you try to find an easy road, and and crash and burn when it doesn't happen, accusing the medical industry of being evil wont get you anywhere, and you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle until you change your thinking....

Good luck to everyone here and to anyone else who will come here for help. As most people here have said, it's all about one day at a time, and surrounding yourself with like minded people who have lived through it as well. they also say that removing yourself from enabling environments is also important but that is a lot easier said than done for most.

The most important thing I can finish with is this: if you've reached the point where you know you can't do it alone, look for help,, and if you don't find it the first time, keep looking, and then keep looking some more. Don't find someone or something to blame. Ok, I'm done. everyone I just royally ticked off are free to tear this post apart... But I hoped I helped more than I potentially angered.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Ok, disclaimers first, I am not a doctor, nor a professional expert in medicine or pharmacology in any official capacity. What I AM is a chronic pain sufferer (high-speed head-on collision resulting in too many cervical spine issues to list here), and I happen to have done a lot of research.  However, my primary physician and I have developed an ongoing strategy when it comes to dealing with chronic pain every day: "my goal should be to become as "functional as I can, not as "comfortable as I can". I understand that I am going to have a degree of pain for most if not the rest of my life. I've accepted that. now I want my life back. And that means work. Through some ups and downs along the way, I have settled into a balanced combination of physical therapy and several non-narcotic medications to manage my various symptoms, all in addition to the moderate level of opiate drug therapy that forms my base-line of pain relief.  

I was lucky enough to find a doctor that has taken time to find a long term pain management strategy that goes beyond writing me a script and showing me the door. I wish everyone we as lucky, dare I say "blessed" as I. Sadly that is not the case, and many who just want an end to the pain end up going down a road that swallows them up before they even know what they're really dealing with.

So, what I'm about to say here applies to several of the posts/replies on this thread, so I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but this diatribe about the inherent "evilness" of pharmaceutical companies is concerning to say the least. even disturbing, and I'll try to explain why. you're not going to see a lot of accusations and foul language that is marked out with "******". (by the way, it seems like the people who share the most extreme stories also use the worst language. I am not in any way lessening the struggle everyone here has faced, and I'm not doubting anyone's' commitment or resolve to better themselves or put their live back together. I respect that, I promise.)

But in this post, I saw some things that were said as if they were based in facts, and it was honestly, very alarming. I'm not going to recap everything I saw, that will all become obvious enough really soon. First, making blanket statements like "all pharmaceutical companies" or "any doctor" etc, it's ridiculously irresponsible and it takes away from your credibility. Secondly, the idea that these companies are modern day drug peddlers that want to take their place as "legalized dealers" just to keep people hooked on drugs, is absurd. I wont argue that there is evidence that suggests that some diseases seem to have more money spent on "treatments" than they do on an actual cure, but that is another discussion entirely. Here is why: Drugs like suboxone, subutex and methadone are long acting opiates that have a longer half-life than other opioids/opiates, this allows the patient (intentionally avoiding the word user here) to maintain a more level blood concentration than they would with a shorter acting opiate, allowing them to take less of the drug over-all. the problem here is that too many recovering patients view the drug as a replacement instead of a step-down treatment. use any opiate long enough and you're going to have problems, period. furthermore, suboxone, methadone and subutex (and others) all have a naloxone component in their formulation that will cause a precipitated onset of opiate withdrawal if the drug is administered using any illicit or unintended method. And, in regards to the statements about doctors intentionally putting patients onto a drug that is "every bit as addictive, but give none of the pleasure" should demonstrate its' own absurdity if you read the sentence more than once. The whole idea is to decrease its potential for abuse. doctors don't prescribe optiates for "pleasure"; they do it to treat a condition, not to make people high. It was considered a major breakthrough in the medical community when an opiate compound was developed that offered not only an option to aid recovering addicts, but also to treat chronic pain sufferers (like myself...) while lowering the potential for abuse at the same time. Shifting focus here, the DEA maintains a strict schedule of controlled substances and spends lord knows how much money (tax dollars...) every year to enforce regulation and monitoring of controlled substance distribution, from top to bottom (doctors to pharmacies and everything in-between) not to mention the money invested for research and testing. Add all of this up and do the math, the conclusion is pretty obvious.. why on earth would they bother with any of this if all that was intended from the beginning was to get everyone "hooked on drugs for life". Any doctor worth their salt will recognize that being on opiates long-term with out any consideration of alternate means of pain relief is not wise. the reality is that many pain patients actually don't want to investigate alternate means, they want their Rx's. And when their doctors cut them off (whether gradually or cold-turkey) some, not all, but some patients escalate their habits to other drugs or even illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating, or plain recreational use. This kind of rhetoric about the inherent evils of the system are what happens when dramatic rationalization overpowers reason. and to a greater extent, the desire to place responsibility on someone or something else. Again, everyone on this forum is dealing with something or knows someone who is.. it's a rough road to travel, and even worse if you travel it alone. and one thing everyone here can agree on is that people who have not experienced opiate dependence (whether it's physical dependence or psychological, or both) will never understand what it is like to go through it all and come out the other end... and some would argue that for some, the struggle never really ends. but don't lose sight of the facts, because sweeping statements like the ones in the previous post can give people who are looking for help the entirely wrong idea of what they should do. doctors are not evil. Yes, there are good doctors, and a whole lot of bad ones.. even criminals here and there, but mostly the bad ones are just negligent and irresponsible, but hey, that's why it is important to do research. keep the responsibility on you. don't blame the world. If you do that, than when you get to the day when you are free of dependence on opiates (or anything for that matter) you'll know that you got YOURSELF there. and it will mean all that much more. But if you try to find an easy road, and and crash and burn when it doesn't happen, accusing the medical industry of being evil wont get you anywhere, and you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle until you change your thinking....

Good luck to everyone here and to anyone else who will come here for help. As most people here have said, it's all about one day at a time, and surrounding yourself with like minded people who have lived through it as well. they also say that removing yourself from enabling environments is also important but that is a lot easier said than done for most.

The most important thing I can finish with is this: if you've reached the point where you know you can't do it alone, look for help,, and if you don't find it the first time, keep looking, and then keep looking some more. Don't find someone or something to blame. Ok, I'm done. everyone I just royally ticked off are free to tear this post apart... But I hoped I helped more than I potentially angered.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Ok, disclaimers first, I am not a doctor, nor a professional expert in medicine or pharmacology in any official capacity. What I AM is a chronic pain sufferer (high-speed head-on collision resulting in too many cervical spine issues to list here), and I happen to have done a lot of research.  However, my primary physician and I have developed an ongoing strategy when it comes to dealing with chronic pain every day: "my goal should be to become as "functional as I can, not as "comfortable as I can". I understand that I am going to have a degree of pain for most if not the rest of my life. I've accepted that. now I want my life back. And that means work. Through some ups and downs along the way, I have settled into a balanced combination of physical therapy and several non-narcotic medications to manage my various symptoms, all in addition to the moderate level of opiate drug therapy that forms my base-line of pain relief.  

I was lucky enough to find a doctor that has taken time to find a long term pain management strategy that goes beyond writing me a script and showing me the door. I wish everyone we as lucky, dare I say "blessed" as I. Sadly that is not the case, and many who just want an end to the pain end up going down a road that swallows them up before they even know what they're really dealing with.

So, what I'm about to say here applies to several of the posts/replies on this thread, so I'm not singling anyone out specifically, but this diatribe about the inherent "evilness" of pharmaceutical companies is concerning to say the least. even disturbing, and I'll try to explain why. you're not going to see a lot of accusations and foul language that is marked out with "******". (by the way, it seems like the people who share the most extreme stories also use the worst language. I am not in any way lessening the struggle everyone here has faced, and I'm not doubting anyone's' commitment or resolve to better themselves or put their live back together. I respect that, I promise.)

But in this post, I saw some things that were said as if they were based in facts, and it was honestly, very alarming. I'm not going to recap everything I saw, that will all become obvious enough really soon. First, making blanket statements like "all pharmaceutical companies" or "any doctor" etc, it's ridiculously irresponsible and it takes away from your credibility. Secondly, the idea that these companies are modern day drug peddlers that want to take their place as "legalized dealers" just to keep people hooked on drugs, is absurd. I wont argue that there is evidence that suggests that some diseases seem to have more money spent on "treatments" than they do on an actual cure, but that is another discussion entirely. Here is why: Drugs like suboxone, subutex and methadone are long acting opiates that have a longer half-life than other opioids/opiates, this allows the patient (intentionally avoiding the word user here) to maintain a more level blood concentration than they would with a shorter acting opiate, allowing them to take less of the drug over-all. the problem here is that too many recovering patients view the drug as a replacement instead of a step-down treatment. use any opiate long enough and you're going to have problems, period. furthermore, suboxone, methadone and subutex (and others) all have a naloxone component in their formulation that will cause a precipitated onset of opiate withdrawal if the drug is administered using any illicit or unintended method. And, in regards to the statements about doctors intentionally putting patients onto a drug that is "every bit as addictive, but give none of the pleasure" should demonstrate its' own absurdity if you read the sentence more than once. The whole idea is to decrease its potential for abuse. doctors don't prescribe optiates for "pleasure"; they do it to treat a condition, not to make people high. It was considered a major breakthrough in the medical community when an opiate compound was developed that offered not only an option to aid recovering addicts, but also to treat chronic pain sufferers (like myself...) while lowering the potential for abuse at the same time. Shifting focus here, the DEA maintains a strict schedule of controlled substances and spends lord knows how much money (tax dollars...) every year to enforce regulation and monitoring of controlled substance distribution, from top to bottom (doctors to pharmacies and everything in-between) not to mention the money invested for research and testing. Add all of this up and do the math, the conclusion is pretty obvious.. why on earth would they bother with any of this if all that was intended from the beginning was to get everyone "hooked on drugs for life". Any doctor worth their salt will recognize that being on opiates long-term with out any consideration of alternate means of pain relief is not wise. the reality is that many pain patients actually don't want to investigate alternate means, they want their Rx's. And when their doctors cut them off (whether gradually or cold-turkey) some, not all, but some patients escalate their habits to other drugs or even illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating, or plain recreational use. This kind of rhetoric about the inherent evils of the system are what happens when dramatic rationalization overpowers reason. and to a greater extent, the desire to place responsibility on someone or something else. Again, everyone on this forum is dealing with something or knows someone who is.. it's a rough road to travel, and even worse if you travel it alone. and one thing everyone here can agree on is that people who have not experienced opiate dependence (whether it's physical dependence or psychological, or both) will never understand what it is like to go through it all and come out the other end... and some would argue that for some, the struggle never really ends. but don't lose sight of the facts, because sweeping statements like the ones in the previous post can give people who are looking for help the entirely wrong idea of what they should do. doctors are not evil. Yes, there are good doctors, and a whole lot of bad ones.. even criminals here and there, but mostly the bad ones are just negligent and irresponsible, but hey, that's why it is important to do research. keep the responsibility on you. don't blame the world. If you do that, than when you get to the day when you are free of dependence on opiates (or anything for that matter) you'll know that you got YOURSELF there. and it will mean all that much more. But if you try to find an easy road, and and crash and burn when it doesn't happen, accusing the medical industry of being evil wont get you anywhere, and you'll be stuck in a vicious cycle until you change your thinking....

Good luck to everyone here and to anyone else who will come here for help. As most people here have said, it's all about one day at a time, and surrounding yourself with like minded people who have lived through it as well. they also say that removing yourself from enabling environments is also important but that is a lot easier said than done for most.

The most important thing I can finish with is this: if you've reached the point where you know you can't do it alone, look for help,, and if you don't find it the first time, keep looking, and then keep looking some more. Don't find someone or something to blame. Ok, I'm done. everyone I just royally ticked off are free to tear this post apart... But I hoped I helped more than I potentially angered.
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