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186166 tn?1385259382

getting off sub

I think it was when fladdict started on sub last year, that the "sub craze" started.  but i am a little confused

i have been reading some posts this morning and i hear ppl talking about STILL being on sub.  what is that about?  i thought the goal was to start tapering as soon as you start.  am i wrong?  i mean...why would someone continue to take the sub for months on end?

i wonder if you are not using the sub as just another means to not have to deal with your core issues.  what happens when you come off the sub?  and if you say that "nothing" happens...then why would one continue to use it for an extended length of time?

35 Responses
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410221 tn?1227631837
This was why I decided not to go the sub route. 5 years of a hi-dose of lortabs was a lot. Why would I go on another drug/suboxone for a few months or longer it seems, then have to withdraw from it just like the hydros/lortabs.

Once you are off the drugs/pills you do have to deal with major issues. Feelings you have hidden, emotions, bad moods, depression, no sleep and how to deal with social situations you have been masking with the pills for years.

As a 41 year old woman it was time for me to control of my life and stop being selfish. Everyone would like to cover up bad things in their life and escape from time to time. I just realized with my husbands help it was time to grow up, get off the pills and deal with the pain of everyday life. No one dies from withdrawals off lortabs or other opiates so suboxone was not an option. It was time to really get clean.

If Suboxone is to keep you from craving then it does effect the brain receptors at what point do you come off of the suboxone? When you do you will have to feel things and except the cravings at some point.  You will have to get through the rough times you have put on hold with Suboxone and except your feelings and go through the PAWS symptoms. I know all of this because I had an appointment with a Suboxone doctor and told him of my concerns and he informed me of all of this along with this I did much research on this treatment. It was not for me I think we all look for an easy way out and more meds to take. I know I did, I cryed for days just trying to make the decision of what to do. The one I made was not the easy one but it has worked for me over a year now.
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Avatar universal
What a great post! I could not agree with you more. Sounds like made great decision with help of a good Dr.  Awesome!
Helpful - 0
352798 tn?1399298154
Good points! Lizzy I was under this assumption too. Unless it is being used as another long term pain med, it should be used for only a while. I think for some it can be months because they are tryin to have you get your life back into normal functions again. Setting up routines and then tapering off. Maybe others can chime in here. It would be interesting to know what the body still has to go through after getting off the Sub.
Helpful - 0
390416 tn?1275185087
I never went the sub route...but i think NA/AA , counseling teaches you the tools and to learn how to deal w/ cravings and life issues...and IT"S FREE!!!!

This ties back w/ your post the other day LIZZIE....people are ignoring the aftercare...that's what RECOVERY is...learning to deal with all the sh*t after you get off the drugs...i'm not a big book thumper..but only 2% of people who get clean,stay clean (statistics from 1990)

time to go work out.....get rid of some of this energy !!!     :D        LOL
Helpful - 0
306867 tn?1299249709
In one way you are correct. Using Suboxone is just swapping drugs, but these are the reasons I am on it.  First is, my life is not in danger on a daily basis any longer.  I could have died on any given day with the amount of perc's I was using. I also was going cold turkey , relapsing, cold turkey, relapsing etc... I could not afford to take any more time off work to go cold turkey again and needed to stop the dangerous amounts of drugs I was doing period.  I feel very normal on the sub and am learning not to chase a high or run for pills when things get tuff. So in a way I am retraining myself.  I also have pain issues that need to be dealt with and pain was often a reason for my relapsing. It's truley amazing how I don't think about pills anymore as that was all I thought of before.
I personally do not recommend sub to people that have not even tried cold turkey or tapering.
I often think about people that come on the forum frustrated as they have gone cold turkey many times only to relapse and have jobs that they can't take time off of because they used all their time in past c/t failures. How awful I would feel , if one of these people died of an overdose during a relapse.  This is where I feel sub can save lives. Your life is taken out of immediate danger with the sub (under a doctors care). Suboxone is not for everyone, but it has been a life saver for myself and my sister.
We both know we will need to get off it, and we will do a long slow taper. When we feel ready.   I am prepared to deal with PAWS. I was already dealing with that on my last detox.
I will keep this forum updated as I go through my taper and what type of withdrawal I may have. For right now, It is helping me lead a fairly normal life. I am pro suboxone, but not for everyone.
Hope this helped you get into a suboxone users head. lol  
Helpful - 0
182493 tn?1348052915
I ask this same question at least 20x per day.....
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Avatar universal
Great post!  I've used Sub as a fill in drug and also a drug to get off Hydro. It has its place in recovery no doubt, it allowed me to function at a high level for 3 months, w/o thinking about pills. For me personally i wasn't myself, and thats where i'm trying to get to. I want my life back. You have no Idea how many people i turned on to Sub, unfortunately I was reccomending it to my addict friends as a fill in Drug. And the Dr. didn't give a **** about anything but the 200 bucks.  So I really think it is a great recovery option under the care of a good Dr.   Day 13 I feel great mostly because of the wonderful people that I don't know.  God Bless
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Avatar universal
being on sub long term has made it so i CAN deal with my core issues, constantly being sick from withdrawals and taper plans wasnt getting me the help i needed, which was and still is therapy. simply taking a pill to stop withdrawals is NOT what it is "ALL" about, and if people are taking sub thinking thats all it takes, well then they arent working the treatment plan as a whole.  if your able to stay clean after a simple detox, why would you even need sub to begin with? just detox and stop if its that simple for you?  its not that simple for most. and if your a long term addict then you can only benefit from long term treatment, which include #1 therapy or meetings whichever you choose, the ability to lead a normal life while tending to core issues, learning to deal with temptation, cravings, stress, PAWS, anxiety, depression and giving yourself some time to heal while you have this time of feeling normal. learning all you can while feeling NORMAL so when it is time to get off sub, you are better equipped to deal with it.  people who are "sick" and in constant agony from symptoms of addiction are far less likely to do anything about these issues, which eventually, that alone CAN lead to relapse. i cant even begin to tell you the people that I have talked to that used sub for detox purposes only to go back to their DOC and wish they had stayed on longer...now they have to start the process all over again...so how did THAT help them, it didnt.  long term isnt for everyone, but neither is short term detox.  and this is a good thing about sub...it CAN and SHOULD be tailored to the individual...not as a 1 treatment suits all.
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Avatar universal
Hey I just need to post this,

Yes recovery is about dealing/learning and being free from drugs.

Suboxone is used to treat pain for people that have become addicted to hydros.

Dr's usally Rx 3 4mgs a day for pain, and I know for a fact that suboxone does not find
any feelings nor does it give you any kind of mood altering effect.  (it's a opiate without the high).

It's like Naproxen (non narc pain relief) but stronger.

I think to each their own, and also after awhile suboxone does not help with opiate cravings.  And if you do try to get high on it (take more than you should) you get sick, headaches.

cocobean
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Avatar universal
Excellent and insightful post.  I couldn't agree more!  I think Sub is just prolonging the inevitable and you still have to w/d....even with the long slow taper!  If it has saved lifes, that is great, but it seems more like a bandaid than a cure. Just my opinion!!!
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Avatar universal
there is NO cure for addiction...suboxone is not a cure...thats is a fact.
Helpful - 0
209656 tn?1272297065
Wow,

Long time since I have talked w/ you. If you want to do the sub treatment, do it.

Some just tend to stay on it longer than others, due to comfort, jobs or whatever..

Some taper off the sub, some don't.

If you have your plan, and don't take the sub treatment everyday, then taper down as you go thru it.

Anyway, it's good to see you.

Love,
Todd
Helpful - 0
410221 tn?1227631837
Good post Mary, that helps me understand more and I agree for people that have relapsed many times I can see where it would be a positive option.

K Todd, Lizzie doesn't need Sub. she's probably the only one in here that hasn't been addicted to a drug. She is here because she has a great deal of knowledge in this area. She keeps us all in line:-)

And there is no cure for addiction but I do believe you can recover. I don't think everyone can due to situations and support etc. Like toxictome says only 2% make it, but if you have support and fix your problems within yourself and learn the right ways to deal with problems and issues in your life instead of covering them up you increase your chances. You can be healed from cancer and other disease so I feel very confident in myself:-)
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Avatar universal
yes...recovery is always possible with the right tools...i think we all have the same goal here...
Helpful - 0
390416 tn?1275185087
wait2long/mary:  Thanks for the insight!  I was referring to those who choose to  do no aftercare of any type....whether they are on sub or not...

.nothing changes, if nothing changes.!!!
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Avatar universal
and you are so right about that...i couldnt agree more...if your not willing to make the necessary changes...whats the point?  nothing is as important as aftercare of ANY kind at any time...thanks hun..
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Avatar universal
recovery is an on going process, that's why they say A DAY AT A TIME.

and I believe there is no cure for ADDICTION/ALCOHOLISM, there is treatment.. and yes
we must treat the body, the spirit and the emotions.  It's a 3 fold disease and with the right treatment permanent recovery can happen.

Suboxone is different for everyone, if you are using it for w/d's usually Dr's start you at 8mg's for a week and drop you every week until you are at 1mg for every other day and than you stop with no w/d's at all.  But DR's have found that is great for txing people in chronic pain that have problems with opiate addiction.  It does lighten the pain a great deal.

I have been a sober/recovering alcoholic for 11 years, I have done the steps time and time again.  Everytime I have a new sponsee I go through the steps with them, I have been to over 8000 meetings at least and each day I start fresh in recovery.  I can pick up a drink as easily as a new comer, and if I forget that I will be drunk very soon..


Now I am new to recovery with pills/addiction and I have to see it the same way with alcohol.  I have been over hydros for a year now and each day is a bran new day in recovery.  I have tried to detox/get off of pills every way possible.  C/T, W/D's, taking time off from work, going to in patient detox and every time I failed.  Not because of lacking the wanting to be clean or the support or not going to meetings, have done it all.

I failed for one reason THE PAIN, I started the pills because of severe chronic pain and became addicted.  When I stopped the pills no Dr could help with the pain, I could not function the pain was so bad.  I had to give up work, friends, family.  I went to all of the meetings, had a sponsor the works, but the pain took me out.  By being on suboxone for 4 months while the DR's found a way to deal with my pain on a long term basis I finally got clean.  First they put me on suboxone for the pain 4mgs, TID, then when they found a drug free tx for me, they tapered me from suboxone.

Thank god for suboxone, it saved my life and bought me time so the Dr's could help me.

I still work a program every day, meetings, steps, 12 step work, service, recovery, unity.
  
SO 1 day at time I am new clean and free.
Helpful - 0
269563 tn?1205794864
Sub is NOT a cure!! Like others have said its a tool to use in recovery. Dont blame sub if thats all your doing for your addiction. Its an opiate and your still gonna feel like **** regardless. I see alot of people on here who havent used it properly giving advice about it which im not happy about but thats life. Oh and just to clarify, if you use it for more than 21 days that does not mean your using it wrong ( dont know where that came from). Short term or long term is fine depending on the person and the addiction. Do your research people and get help!
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Avatar universal
actually, wasnt it fishmeal to bring up sub for the first time?  thats the way i remember it...? not that it really matters i guess.
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306455 tn?1288862071
Lots of good posts here. There always seems to be alittle attitude towards people that use Sub. or reccommend it to others. Explaining why some people choose this particular option hopefully will bring about understanding and acceptance on this touchy subject. Because when it comes right down to it, we are all after the same final result. To be clean and in recovery. There are many different roads that can take us to our desired destination. I don't understand the resentment.
I'm on Suboxone and I thank God that I am. I've tried going cold turkey over and over again. This is working for me. Chances are, if I wasn't on Suboxone I would still be on pain pills, or dead or in jail. The suboxone is giving me the time I need to change. I also have real pain issues and the Sub helps with that alittle. I am under a doctors care, my Suboxone is obtained legally and I don't have to keep increasing my dose like you do with pain meds. I no longer look for a high, I don't worry if I have enough drugs, not constantly popping pills and all the other things I would be doing if I was not on Suboxone. I'm not in any rush to get off it, probably this summer, when work has slowed down. I'm just not sure of what I'm gonna do about my pain issues. That is on my mind all the time and I have no answer for that.
I'm sorry some people think we're taking the easy way out, but we're not, it's just a different way out. And most of us have tried the other ways without success.
Please allow everyone all the options without the resentment, attitude and grief. We are all after the same prize.
Thank you.
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Avatar universal
personally, after reading through this thread (just like the many posted about this before,) I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to be "right" or "wrong," or judge anyone who chooses a long term route or short term route.

if it works for some to be on it for awhile - why the need to judge? really.  none of us are experts on it here..

as well, everyone's goal, ultimately, is recovery.

why don't we all just resepct each other's right to make that choice, and let it be...
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306867 tn?1299249709
I couldn't agree more.  I think the problem arises when Suboxone is recommended to someone.  People must realize that it is their responsibility to do the homework on any recomendations and make their own informed desicion. (sp)
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340590 tn?1290952141
magi, that was a great, heartfelt post.  and i want to say that i absolutely respect your choice and am very proud of you for the progress you have made and as you said freedom from pills is the ultimate goal
much respect and love
cathy
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186166 tn?1385259382
if any of you think that "I" am judging you...then you are mistaken.  i have no right to be judge and jury over anyone's choices for "their" lives.  

what worries me is that ppl use drugs...whatever that may be...opiates, crack, heroin, etc....usually as a mask to cover something else.  i just want ppl to be aware that there are underlying issues that MUST be dealt with before their addiction can be gotten under control.  i think sub is a great tool for helping someone through a rough period...but still i wonder and worry about what happens when you come off of it.

are most of the ppl who are using sub...also getting therapy and/or some kind of treatment to work through their issues?  i want ppl to succeed...not fail.  i want them to get to the bottom of what is going on and not put dealing with that off another day.  i hate to see ppl thinking that sub is a miracle cure and that when they decide to come off of it...that everything is going to be a bed of roses...cause it's not!!!!!!!!

i wish the best for everyone on this forum...and my concern is genuine.
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