getting off sub

[LIZZIE LOU]

I think it was when fladdict started on sub last year, that the "sub craze" started.  but i am a little confused

i have been reading some posts this morning and i hear ppl talking about STILL being on sub.  what is that about?  i thought the goal was to start tapering as soon as you start.  am i wrong?  i mean...why would someone continue to take the sub for months on end?

i wonder if you are not using the sub as just another means to not have to deal with your core issues.  what happens when you come off the sub?  and if you say that "nothing" happens...then why would one continue to use it for an extended length of time?

[flmagi]

I have read some posts from people recently that have come off longer term Sub. successfully. I should have book marked their posts because I don't think they were regulars, I don't remember.

[sterling_silver]

This is a really good post. I have been coming here for 14 months. It used to upset me when so many people would try to convince others to go on sub. Now, I have learned more about it by reading posts. When I read Mary's post, anyone would agree, it is better than being dead. Of course, we all know the great success Fladdict has had with it. But, she did it for 10 days. I can't read every post. I don't recall anyone posting that they took it for a long time and is clean now. Is there anyone? If you are out there, please post.
I am just very curious. I am by no means judging, and I certainly don't resent anyone who is using sub as a way to end their addiction. I think everyone has to do whats best for them.

[GA Guy]

Thanks for the kind post. How have you been. It's been a while since I've been online here posting. I miss so many of the people on here.

[Calzy]

I just think doctor's and clinic use the rule of thumb that recovery can take up to 18 months to two years and say you need the maint. that long as well. I've have good drs as well who would say no charge when they knew i was in a bind. I dont post much anymore  but i do read and i see so many ppl get to  30 days or more clean and fall back again because they think they should be back to normal in that time and think they have to use to function, well it not true. I just think ppl need to give it more time, like 3 to 6 months clean and they will find life can be new again. I'm at 7 mos clean from M'done and about 13 mos clean from my DOC, pain pills and patch, oxy, soma, xanax and counting.
Later

[wait2long]

great post!!!  and your thinking is right on target...awesome post, love it and thank you!

subutex CAN be abused...suboxone cant...simple as that...LOL!

[GA Guy]

Subutex CAN be crushed and injected. Doing the same with Suboxone will either make you sick as a dog because of the added naloxone...or have you feel nothing at all. Every drug available can and will be abused. Just how our minds work.

[catchiec]

Buprenorphine, marketed under the brand name Suboxone, was developed as a safer alternative for treating people addicted to heroin and painkillers compared to methadone. It was also designed to be resistant to abuse, but it hasn't turned out that way.

In spite of all the safeguards built into the drug when it was developed by the National Institute on Drug Abuse and pharmaceutical firm Reckitt Benckiser, addicts are diverting the drug from its original use by crushing the pills, injecting them and even selling them on the street.

"The issue of diversion has been out there since 2004," said Dr. H. Westley Clark, director of the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment. "We've been concerned about that, and we will continue to be concerned about that.

[GA Guy]

Taking Sub has to be a personal decision. Taking on the decision to take Sub (either short term detox or maintenance) has to be made on the merits of every individual through their own personal experiences and faith. For me, it was a sound decision to use Sub. I can also count on one hand the number of people I've advised to take Sub at all. I can tell my experiences, but my experiences to someone who'd making this decision should be an almost non issue. This is a personal decision best left up to the patient and a COMPETENT Suboxone licensed physician. To say any course of action is right or wrong is as ignorant as the reasons we addicts come up with to condone our addictions. There are people that maintenance courses of Suboxone makes sense. For others, short term is best. Both are correct choices. The only goal is to break the bonds of addiction. Suboxone is yet but one tool in the chest that can help some people break the bond. The ultimate increase in the quality of life is the grand goal. Keeping our lives, our faith, and our families is the result of breaking the bonds to addiction. Those that take Sub long term are just taking a longer route to the same destination. I could never fault the road we each take to get there. God bless you all on your journeys...PS Marcatj and FLaddict...I luv ya gals  

[wait2long]

well i agree to a point...there certainly are some money grubbing doctors out there that are doing it for the money, and for no other reason...i am lucky...i dont have one of those doctors, i have been receiving treatment from her since may...i got my VERY FIRST bill last month...for 50 bucks...!!!??? i was amazed...!  she is a true caring doctor not worried about $$$ at all...
there are good doctors out there...but the bad seem to ruin it for all...
there is no recovery without therapy of some sort...gotta have it to achieve success in dealing with any and all issues...you have to make all necessary changes or you cannot move forward in your life...

[Calzy]

I think your post is right on. Having gone round and round with drug and alcohol addiction for 39 years and tried all the drugs to get off drugs. I found the best magic pill to take to curb my addiction is the one i dont put in my mouth. It's not easy but you do learn to deal with life again and work on breaking down the walls you build up inside you, as most people do with their hidden life of addiction. You learn to take care of your body again because you can feel again. Getting some kind counseling, God, NA-AA, church, family or friend to help is a must in recovery. Suboxone and Methadone have their place for detox and short term use, but IMO, for the long term is to only make your doctors' car payment for them.

[ILoveLukey]

Went the Sub route. Best decision I ever made. And for my own reasons, I regret that those  who did not go this route  and know nothing about it, but condem it  question it. If you never tried it don't condem it.  

[LIZZIE LOU]

if any of you think that "I" am judging you...then you are mistaken.  i have no right to be judge and jury over anyone's choices for "their" lives.  

what worries me is that ppl use drugs...whatever that may be...opiates, crack, heroin, etc....usually as a mask to cover something else.  i just want ppl to be aware that there are underlying issues that MUST be dealt with before their addiction can be gotten under control.  i think sub is a great tool for helping someone through a rough period...but still i wonder and worry about what happens when you come off of it.

are most of the ppl who are using sub...also getting therapy and/or some kind of treatment to work through their issues?  i want ppl to succeed...not fail.  i want them to get to the bottom of what is going on and not put dealing with that off another day.  i hate to see ppl thinking that sub is a miracle cure and that when they decide to come off of it...that everything is going to be a bed of roses...cause it's not!!!!!!!!

i wish the best for everyone on this forum...and my concern is genuine.

[cathy5841]

magi, that was a great, heartfelt post.  and i want to say that i absolutely respect your choice and am very proud of you for the progress you have made and as you said freedom from pills is the ultimate goal
much respect and love
cathy

[allaboutmary]

I couldn't agree more.  I think the problem arises when Suboxone is recommended to someone.  People must realize that it is their responsibility to do the homework on any recomendations and make their own informed desicion. (sp)

[marcatj]

personally, after reading through this thread (just like the many posted about this before,) I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to be "right" or "wrong," or judge anyone who chooses a long term route or short term route.

if it works for some to be on it for awhile - why the need to judge? really.  none of us are experts on it here..

as well, everyone's goal, ultimately, is recovery.

why don't we all just resepct each other's right to make that choice, and let it be...

[flmagi]

Lots of good posts here. There always seems to be alittle attitude towards people that use Sub. or reccommend it to others. Explaining why some people choose this particular option hopefully will bring about understanding and acceptance on this touchy subject. Because when it comes right down to it, we are all after the same final result. To be clean and in recovery. There are many different roads that can take us to our desired destination. I don't understand the resentment.
I'm on Suboxone and I thank God that I am. I've tried going cold turkey over and over again. This is working for me. Chances are, if I wasn't on Suboxone I would still be on pain pills, or dead or in jail. The suboxone is giving me the time I need to change. I also have real pain issues and the Sub helps with that alittle. I am under a doctors care, my Suboxone is obtained legally and I don't have to keep increasing my dose like you do with pain meds. I no longer look for a high, I don't worry if I have enough drugs, not constantly popping pills and all the other things I would be doing if I was not on Suboxone. I'm not in any rush to get off it, probably this summer, when work has slowed down. I'm just not sure of what I'm gonna do about my pain issues. That is on my mind all the time and I have no answer for that.
I'm sorry some people think we're taking the easy way out, but we're not, it's just a different way out. And most of us have tried the other ways without success.
Please allow everyone all the options without the resentment, attitude and grief. We are all after the same prize.
Thank you.

[wait2long]

actually, wasnt it fishmeal to bring up sub for the first time?  thats the way i remember it...? not that it really matters i guess.

[AH6767]

Sub is NOT a cure!! Like others have said its a tool to use in recovery. Dont blame sub if thats all your doing for your addiction. Its an opiate and your still gonna feel like **** regardless. I see alot of people on here who havent used it properly giving advice about it which im not happy about but thats life. Oh and just to clarify, if you use it for more than 21 days that does not mean your using it wrong ( dont know where that came from). Short term or long term is fine depending on the person and the addiction. Do your research people and get help!

[cocobeanlisa]

recovery is an on going process, that's why they say A DAY AT A TIME.

and I believe there is no cure for ADDICTION/ALCOHOLISM, there is treatment.. and yes
we must treat the body, the spirit and the emotions.  It's a 3 fold disease and with the right treatment permanent recovery can happen.

Suboxone is different for everyone, if you are using it for w/d's usually Dr's start you at 8mg's for a week and drop you every week until you are at 1mg for every other day and than you stop with no w/d's at all.  But DR's have found that is great for txing people in chronic pain that have problems with opiate addiction.  It does lighten the pain a great deal.

I have been a sober/recovering alcoholic for 11 years, I have done the steps time and time again.  Everytime I have a new sponsee I go through the steps with them, I have been to over 8000 meetings at least and each day I start fresh in recovery.  I can pick up a drink as easily as a new comer, and if I forget that I will be drunk very soon..


Now I am new to recovery with pills/addiction and I have to see it the same way with alcohol.  I have been over hydros for a year now and each day is a bran new day in recovery.  I have tried to detox/get off of pills every way possible.  C/T, W/D's, taking time off from work, going to in patient detox and every time I failed.  Not because of lacking the wanting to be clean or the support or not going to meetings, have done it all.

I failed for one reason THE PAIN, I started the pills because of severe chronic pain and became addicted.  When I stopped the pills no Dr could help with the pain, I could not function the pain was so bad.  I had to give up work, friends, family.  I went to all of the meetings, had a sponsor the works, but the pain took me out.  By being on suboxone for 4 months while the DR's found a way to deal with my pain on a long term basis I finally got clean.  First they put me on suboxone for the pain 4mgs, TID, then when they found a drug free tx for me, they tapered me from suboxone.

Thank god for suboxone, it saved my life and bought me time so the Dr's could help me.

I still work a program every day, meetings, steps, 12 step work, service, recovery, unity.
  
SO 1 day at time I am new clean and free.

[wait2long]

and you are so right about that...i couldnt agree more...if your not willing to make the necessary changes...whats the point?  nothing is as important as aftercare of ANY kind at any time...thanks hun..

[toxictome]

wait2long/mary:  Thanks for the insight!  I was referring to those who choose to  do no aftercare of any type....whether they are on sub or not...

.nothing changes, if nothing changes.!!!

[wait2long]

yes...recovery is always possible with the right tools...i think we all have the same goal here...

[Chi_Chi_Lover]

Good post Mary, that helps me understand more and I agree for people that have relapsed many times I can see where it would be a positive option.

K Todd, Lizzie doesn't need Sub. she's probably the only one in here that hasn't been addicted to a drug. She is here because she has a great deal of knowledge in this area. She keeps us all in line:-)

And there is no cure for addiction but I do believe you can recover. I don't think everyone can due to situations and support etc. Like toxictome says only 2% make it, but if you have support and fix your problems within yourself and learn the right ways to deal with problems and issues in your life instead of covering them up you increase your chances. You can be healed from cancer and other disease so I feel very confident in myself:-)

[K Todd]

Wow,

Long time since I have talked w/ you. If you want to do the sub treatment, do it.

Some just tend to stay on it longer than others, due to comfort, jobs or whatever..

Some taper off the sub, some don't.

If you have your plan, and don't take the sub treatment everyday, then taper down as you go thru it.

Anyway, it's good to see you.

Love,
Todd