quitting suboxone with percocet

[itstime]

I was on suboxone for 4 years (about 8mg per day at first and tapered down to 1mg).  Here comes the tricky part...under the supervision of my addiction specialist, I switched to oxycodone and think it will be easier to come off that that the dredded subox.  Subox is 30 times mg per mg more powerful than oxycodone.  And with its half life, it is like taking 30 mgs of percocet but never coming off of it for 24 to 36 hrs.  That is a lot of percocet to fill those shoes.  So far so good with the percs.  On day one I took 14 5 mg oxycodone.  Today, one week later I am down to 8 5 mg pills.  Next will be dropping one per day.  By next week I should be taking one a day for the extreem withdrawals.  Has anyone attempted this before?  If I get down to one 5 mg oxycondone per day....can I avoid withdrawals?

[DocEmmitBrown]

After reading this thread. It is wonderful that "Itstime" was able to do what he did. Very interesting indeed. Now I was not going to reply , considering the age of the thread here. But the pure misinformation in the last post, is so bad that I have to. Suboxone is combination drug of one part Buprenorphine (usually 3/4th), the second part naloxone(1/4th). Suboxone itself is considered a partial agonist opiate.(Which in no way speaks to it's binding affinity, which is astronomical) The reason for this, is because it has buprenorphine in the pill. Which is,  in and of itself a partial agonist opiate. The naloxone is in the medication as a deterrent. For ROA(route of administration) abuse. So to be as clear as I possibly can Suboxone contains Buprenorphine which is most DEFINITELY an opiate. Subutex, which is stand alone Buprenorphine, which I previously mentioned is a partial agonist opiate, without the naloxone in the pill itself.  The previous poster is right about the Methadone being a full agonist opiate. The reason Suboxone is so hard to get off of, Is it's very long half life , and it's binding affinity to your mu opioid receptors. Methadone is it's own beast. In a lot of professional opinions, it is outdated, and should never be prescribed over a buprenorphine product for opiate dependence. God bless any one trying to come off any opiate. I truly wish you the best. Congratulations to the original poster for such a success.

- Dr. Emmit Brown

[liliansdream]

Thank you for posting DrEmmitBrown.  I am trying the same thing as  "Itstime"..  I'm on day 7 of using Percs to get off the Suboxone.  I started on 6 percs / day for the first 3 days then I had to increase to 8 day 5 & 6.  That is when the w/d seemed the worse... I am doing this under my totally "unknowledgeable Suboxone Dr.s"..  supervision.  I say that because she really doesn't have a clue how hard it is to come off.. or she doesn't care and just wants repeat customers so she will prescribe to those with a mild opiate addiction.   I had a urine sample and Suboxone still showed up over 120 hrs since my last dose.  That is the scary part how potent it is with that long half life... It builds and builds..    

I couldn't drop from 2mg to 1.5mg without significant w/d symptoms which surprised me as getting to 2mg was not difficult.  From what i have read dropping minute doses and going through some w/d with each drop and it taking a month or more to stabilize, "I couldn't give up that much time to feel sick"...   I was on Sub years ago, and once I had it out of my system for 2-3 weeks, I felt so much better.. bit by  bit my energy returned..  I was very physically active with exercise so I think that helped.  

In a week I switch to Tylenol #3. for 10 days..   I live in Canada and my Suboxone Dr can do this for me..  I guess in the USA a Suboxone Dr. cannot prescribe other opiates.. "I gather from what I have read"..  that is tragic.  some people need this route.  I have no worry about becoming addicted to the percs as I have not felt high once from them doing this.. just keeping me out of bad w/d's.  Is am being very cautious about how many I take as I know all about the slippery slope.  I just want to be done with opiates... I hate them, and love life clean..

Liliansdream

[Auwerx]

Please read "Overcoming Opiate Addiction" by Dr. Adam Basiaga. Suboxone cannot get you high! It's loaded with Narcan..it's a full blown "anti-agonist", which means it kicks off any & all of the opiates that have attached themselves to the nerve endings! Suboxone contains NO opiates!

Buprenorphine (Subutex)  is a "Partial Agonist". That means that it does contain some opiate in the drug itself. However..you cannot get high! It reaches a certain level & then stops the opiate from attaching fully to the nerve endings. It's actually a better drug to use because you don't have to go through days, if not weeks of withdrawal, especially for heroin users.

Methadone..a full blown agonist. It's trading one opiate for another. But hey... it's evidently  been working for years on addicts all over the world.

And no.. I'm no medical professional. My apologies to those in the medical profession if I screwed up on the explanation here. But I've been doing a deep dive into what medicine has to say about the current opiate crises we find ourselves in in 2018. I'm finally getting clean after 21 years. But I need to see the science that's going on. Be informed folks! Take control of your lives. Thanks.

Cheers!


Auwerx

[sprawl]

I'm not sure about that 30mg  per mg stronger. I am tapering down successfully. Down from 1mg to .8mg so far. It took a month to go from 1 to 8/10ths of one. it'll take more months to SLOWLY taper down to 1/10th of 1mg.  That is a low dose I can live with forever..  It's cheaper to buy off the street than to get an RX

[NickleSpender]

I've been on Subs for about 6 months, and I am scared crapless when I think about stopping cold, at any dose. I'm destroying my life one day at a time. I have ruined (am ruining) opportunities that I have created for myself, I dropped out of high school and worked dead end jobs until I was 24. To this point, I had not had an opiate problem. I had messed around with oxy's, but never prolonged usage. I have always had anxiety problems, and self-medicated with klonopins bought mainly from my aunt.

Then I joined the Army as a Signals Intel Analyst. I was in the Army for 6 years, breaking down roughly to 2 yrs Maryland, 2 yrs Germany, 2 yrs Iraq. I got out of the military JAN 2012. I was collecting 550$ in unemployment, plus some saved up money. I started to take perc 30s more and more casually. It took well over a year before I got to the point of real addiction. I got/have a job in IT, and I make an OK living doing this. I have also used the GI Bill, which in Boston pays you about 2500/month (not taxed). I was spending everything I could get on P30s without realizing it.

I found suboxone and thought all was well. After taking Subs for a month, I had trouble when I tried tot stop. Since then, I've tried to taper repeatedly, and I never get anywhere. I wake up in pain. It feels like I got kicked in my ribs while I slept. I also end up sleeping 10+ hours OFTEN. I have failed out/dropped ALL classes I have taken. I am at the point where I am willing to go to a detox/rehab/whatever. I have a very supportive gf who will help me and support me with whatever decision I make. I’ve never seen a DR for painkillers, and one of the reasons I don’t want to go the DR route is my clearance. Once I go that route, I will never hold a security clearance again. That’s a lot of money on the table in potential future earnings.

I currently work in the IT department in Downtown Boston in a 9 floor building, and attend Northeastern University, pursuing a B.S. in IT for free. I actually GET PAID 2500/month to go to school.

I wasn’t satisfied with what I was doing with my life, so I joined the military in order to give myself opportunities. I am pissing away everything that I gave 6 years of life for. If I could just get clean, my life is right in front of me. And it’s a cakewalk. I went to war, and then I volunteered to go back. That was easy, this is not.

I’ve been arguing with my GF and we both know I’m not me. I sleep all day and put off homework until I don’t do it. I’ve never had any depression problems, but I am growing way past disappointed in myself and starting to feel sorry for myself, which is depressing.

[Larsy1566]

I hate it also. How long and how much are you taking?

[got2breal]

Did the vicodin work? I am going to see if I can try this.

[got2breal]

My heart goes out to you! These detox places are not for people addicted to suboxone. They treat suboxone detox the same as pain pill addiction and they are not the same. Suboxone detox is much harder and much much longer. A person can only take so much and that is why so many suboxone users end up giving up. I believe when a person is suffering for too long there should be breaks where a short acting opiate given when they feel like giving up. There needs to be places that only treat suboxone detox. Suboxone is very strong and it can make a person turn into a zombie and that is not living. It is a very good tool for someone who is heavily addicted to herein or pain pills but I believe it should never be given for longer than 2 weeks. That is how suboxone was intended to be used.

[Larsy1566]

I believe you. I was taken off of it in 10 days and even after suffering like I did I started to feel my emotions come back and that was the greatest feeling in the world. I remember before I ever took suboxone experiencing tremendous anxiety and I am starting to think that being on the suboxone for so long and not being able to feel that I forgot what a mess I was before all of this. I am not saying that my doctor was right to give me such a powerful medication for my depression and anxiety.  I believe he should have referred me to an inpatient depression program. He really messed up my life. Part of me wants to go back to an inpatient detox and rehab program but I'm not sure I can do it again. It scares me to death. I forgot to mention that while taking me off the suboxone in those 10 days they also took me off of a 15 year dependence to klonopin. I was a mess. I was delusional and was told I was trying to jump off of my balcony. I do not remember anything. I ended up in a south Fl. County psychiatric hospital.  I have never experienced anything like it. I will never take klonopin or any benzodiazepine again!

[Krisjj]

Wonder if this is truly possible because I hate subs...hate the taste. Last dose was Monday at 10am...

[Larsy1566]

OMG! I have tried to come off suboxone too many times but the last time cost me over 40,000 dollars and still did not work. I have always known that I could probably succeed if I had access to a short acting opiate but I do not so I am stuck on this suboxone for almost 6 years. I too was prescribed this by my psychiatrist for "off label" use to help with my depression. I have talked to many professionals about this and they all say that I have a good case and should sue my doctor but right now all I am concerned about is getting off of this poison. I don't know what else to do and after reading your story I am wishing and praying that someday I too will be able to do this under a doctors care. I too am not chasing a high. I miss my natural highs and it's eating me up. I don't know how much longer I can hold on. I'm so depressed and feel so helpless.

[itstime]

Agree completely!  

[SunnysideUP27]

Well I haven't been on here a while and this is the first post I saw. Although it is old, I see a few ppl have commented on this. Probably taboo, but this is how I came off of subs as well almost 2 years ago. This May I will be clean for 2 years. Well I used vicodin to get me off sub. I tried getting off the subs but it just didn't work for me. Granted, I didn't do it the proper way because it was soooo hard to taper down and skip days... I was down to a chip, before thetas, a tiny chip and I couldn't do it. I don't suggest doing it my way but it is what worked for me. I haven't seen many ppl talk about this.... Good luck either way.

[liliansdream]

I'm on day 7 of doing it this way... I like you could not do the low dose taper on the Sub... too painful and too long for me..  So I decided the percs may work for me too... I so hope so.. So far I have not felt good or high from the percs, just no terrible w/d symptoms... I'm switching to Tylenol #3 next week.. and then taper off that for 10 days..   My sub dr. had no problem doing this for me...  It's a lot easier t w/d off Tylenol 3 than Suboxone...  I was never addicted to Percs or Tylenol #3... Tylenol 3 in fact makes me feel sick to my stomach.. but I will put up with that for 10 days to be off the Sub... Can't wait until this over...

[learningandhelping]

What did you do. I read through all your posts and was thinking about doing the same thing. It must work and that's why they don't want anyone to know. You go from May 20 to June 15. No details on how you tapered. If you get this please explain your taper. I still don't understand if you took 1mg of oxy or of suboxone on your last day.

[mic1970339]

I  had been prescribed 16 mg subs daily to get into rehab and to manage my pain ( chronic back and neck pain )! I had been taking subs 1 year and 9 months. My pain was managed well until few months ago it increasingly was getting worse! I also have been clean for year and 9 months, working full time ans have a job of a life time I've been blessed! My sub doc sent me to pain management and stated it was time that " I was ready" ! They did MRI and my worst fears came true c5-c6 herniated moderately squishing onto spinal cord! I took sub all the way up to day before surgery and have post op narcotics for when go home! I'm needing high dose of narcotics ??!! How long until subs are out of system so I can take normal dose

[2kb]

I was on 16 10 mg of methadone and 8  30 mg oxycodone a day for 5/7 yrs I also bought methadone anywhere any time I could way before then about 13 yrs. So I tried suboxone  to quit. I cut back week by week,,, SORRY, it still felt the same , to me suboxone was just as painful if not more painful than methadone detoxe! It's a perfectly USELESS drug LIE! Why do they put you on these drugs for treatment ? how is it helping you by holding you as slaves? Sweat water juice Xanax at bed time. It's going to hurt  I had God to control my flesh I hurt for 9 days and nights, I flipped my car 3 xs into oncoming traffic so now I'm detoxing again. I'm sorry for all of you I truly feel your pain and I'll pray for yall . God Bless You All ( sorry so sloppy w/d stinks -mind out of order)

[itstime]

Its been almost 5 months since I had any opiates.  I feel great.  I have no cravings and I am happy this stuff is behind me.  I think that the suboxone to oxycodone to clean method worked well.  You have to be careful and I would not suggest it to everyone.  If you have any questions....ask!

[itstime]

Well this is one month no opaites.  I have had no desire to take any pills since I quit.  Maybe i'm a lucky one.  For anyone who is on day 3 or 4 of opiate withdrawal....stick with it...It only takes a few days to be functional again.  At a month....if you stay busy...you get your life back .... your thoughts are clear... you won't sound crazy when you talk to people... and put it behind you.  Good luck.

[bucksfan]

Dude you are sooo right about Eminem's new album. Its the best he ever put out and it def helped me get through this fight so far. #7 Not Afraid and #2 Talkin to Myself...WOW

[itstime]

Back from Vegas.  Had a few drinks... (never had a problem with drinking)... took some advil with me and 1 2mg xanax.... came home with all of my advil and 2mg of xanax.... The only time I thought about the devil pills was when I didn't have the energy to walk the strip...but I powered through it.  I am not sure about the "intense" desire to relapse...that was suppposed to come in week three.... well... week three is up for me tomorrow and I have had no desire.... If you like HipHop.... an album that really speaks a lot about what we are going through is Eminem's "Recovery".  Many of the songs talk about how he has gone through what we have...and is on the other side....it is an uplifting album.... or just read the lyrics of "goign through changes" or "not afraid"..... Good luck everyone..... 20 days clean.....

[itstime]

None taken!  I am not a wuss by any streatch.......But I think the combo of the wd's and good feelings combined cause problems.  Now day 12 and energy comes and goes....I feel bad because my wife is picking up quite a bit my slack....That has helped...but I am the one who went to work feeling like I got hit by a bus on the way in for the first week.   Anyway.... sway1.....You seem nice and thank you for your comments.  These are issues that so many people deal with and frankly every time I go to a doctor...I feel like I have "seen" thousands of patients because of these blogs.  I just got done reading my own words above and remembering what I was feeling.  That in itself is probably the biggest deterrant from getting sucked back in to anything.  I wish you and "your baby" luck.  One of the hardest things is living with someone who is medicated all the time....but when I was...I never understood why my wife was so crazy :)  now I understand...It wasn't always me...but the way I was made her crazy too!  Keep moving forward.... I will check back in after Vegas!  Good luck!

[sway1]

glad to see your latest follow up. i love a success story, and i have a good feeling about yours. no offense but guys can be the biggest wimps when it comes to withdrawal symptoms. lol. just like when my husband gets a bad cold or the flu. he is my big baby, so i take care of him. withdrawal is not really like the flu although they have alot of the same symptoms. i'd rather have the flu any day! i am also doing good. did some step work with my sponsor yesterday, then went to a really good meeting. that's my recipe for success. don't forget to check back in. have a wonderful getaway with the missus! peace, sway

[itstime]

Just checking back...... On day 9 and feeling great!  Evergy is coming back....I can control my mind...and when I laugh....I feel different!  This might sound odd, but I feel like I had an out of body experience for the last 5-7 years and now i'm seeing the light.  I have not had any cravings....and the wife and I are going to vegas for some R&R this weekend. .... Forcing myself to go to work and staying busy helps.  Exersized a few times, I assume that helped too.  I am eating well (too well) and sleeping like a baby.  I will not concider this completely behind me until 4 weeks are up....but I will check back from time to time too see how others are doing..... Ciao for now.  

[sway1]

wow! what a ride! i will be very careful. i cannot use. not percs. not xanax. none of that. man this is one of the wierdest tales i have ever read on here(except for the mothball thing of course). thanks for doing the research for us and following up like that. that can be extremely helpful for those trying to become better informed. wow!   peac, sway

[itstime]

Just to finish things off....I am at work, no energy, but this is day 5 without any opiates.  Last dose was 1mg on Friday at 6am and went to work.  I took monday off.  The first two days were pretty bad.  But i managed to go to my nieces second bday on Saturday (don't know how)...didn't talk to anyone...but it was all family and they understood.  after the first 50 hours, things started to be ok.  I did use flexeril (muscle relaxer for RLS).  I would say that is a must.  That an bendryl to sleep.  I tried most of what is on the Thomas Recipie, but in the end, it was the xanax and flexeril that got me through. I didnt' take xanax 2 days in a row.  I switched out with Advil PM which has benedryl in it.  This also helped with sleeping.  I was taking 5 showers a day *(most in the middle of the night)....and that seemed to help as well.  I searched high and low to find a better way to avert wd's.  From clinics in Mexico, to florida, michigan, LA, and BC Canada......I talked to local hospitals and ended up just doing it myself in the end.  I think I will appreciate it more. I quit for myself and looking back at the worst of it....it was worth it.  I am tired as hell right now...it is 7am and I have to make it 10 hours at work like this.  My mind isn't right and I hear week two is where the cravings kick in....so I made sure to flush everything that I had....oxy and subox included.... and am trying to make it to the weekend.  Good luck everyone....I noticed that many original posters dissapear either after they relapse or got through the wd's and never finish up the post....so here is to closing a long chapter in my life and starting a new one.....