urgent seizure question

[sadmom999]

My daughter has not had heroin for more than a week (she has been in jail for 4 days) and is still having seizures, even on Depakote in  jail.  They won't do anything else for her.  Is there some way we can get them to help her or take her to the hospital?  I just spoke to her and she's stuttering and she does NOT stutter normally.  Is there anything?  I'm afraid for her...

[sadmom999]

Thanks, Liz.  My new thread has been opened on the "Living with an Addict" board.  Its called "Sadmom saga, part 2"  Thank you for your kind words.  Most of the time I feel like I'm doing the wrong thing but that time it actually felt right..  

[Nighthawk61]

Wow!! you said the exact thing that she needed to hear so desperately. You are such a good mom. good luck, god bless! Are you opening a new thread?

[sadmom999]

Sara, you know exactly how to explain what's happening with her.  As I read your post I KNEW you were right, that's what's going on.  I told her last night to forgive herself for her past mistakes and make a plan to avoid making the mistakes she's made before again in the future and she burst out crying.  

[dominosarah]

Yes it does seem like a no brainer but she doesnt see that right now.  She didnt get addicted overnight and we dont recover overnight either.  When we stop using we are left with all our emotions and thoughts running rampant thru our mind, all the while we are still romancing that high.  We see ourselves as bad people.  Our failures, embarrassment all out in the open,  When we were using it covered up our insecurities and right now her mind and body is screaming for that drug.  Our brain needs to be retrained and that takes time.  You will be on a roller coaster ride with her.  There will ups and downs.  This is why we have mentioned Alanon so many times.  You need to get your mind in a good place and get healthy too.  This addiction is very complex.

It doesnt matter who or what led her down this road of destruction.  She only has to be responsible for her part in it.  Please dont place and expectations on her as she is giving all she can right now.  You know you hold a special place in my heart and this kills me to see you going thru this but you also have to know the truth.

[sadmom999]

This thread got too long and a new thread has been started on the "Living with an Addict" board.  :-)  This morning I was thinking it was time to move back there anyway.  The only reason I moved here was because I had that question in the beginning about seizures and needed a quick answer, but then the thread just kept going...

Liz, I am planning to visit hopefully for the preliminary hearing but the attorney mentioned something about trying to get it moved up so I don't know if its going to be on 7/31 or sooner.  You are right, it is absolutely like she's been kidnapped and brainwashed.

Sara, its so hard knowing she's off the drugs and has been for at least 2 weeks and she's still got that awful attitude.  So disappointing.  It just seems like a no-brainer to appreciate your family and recognize the others as the people who led her down the path of destruction.  How can she possibly not see that!?  

I'm looking up alanon meetings in my area today.

[dominosarah]

Jane, please dont "expect" too much from her right now.  Her emotions are all over the place.  That happens whether we are in jail or not.  Drugs numb us up and these emotions are foreign to us.  Learning to live clean is alot of work and takes a long time.  She has only scratched the surface here.  Her comment about "partially" accepting responsibility is very common at this point.  She still hasnt fully grasped the nature of her crimes.  Try not to look to far ahead as this just overwhelms us.  Her one and only goal right now is to get out of jail.

I know we have talked about Alanon with you.  I would love to see you get involved with a group of some sort.  You would get a much better handle on the process of recovery for both you and her.  We have to take baby steps and so do you.  Now be a good girl and get some water or juice and drink away~~

[Nighthawk61]

I sure think it would be nice for your daughter to have a well placed visit, for a court date etc. I't like she's been kidnapped and she needs to be reintroduced into your pack.

[sadmom999]

You're the best.  Hopefully I won't need to take you up on the offer but you never know...thank you sooooo much :-)

[littlebit667]

this is why I love this forum!  You all rock!

[acdmom]

No we are good - but I mean it - don't pay to stay in a hotel - we have room and you will have all the privacy you need we will even find a car for you to use - we mom's need to stick together!!

[sadmom999]

Awwww, you are sooo sweet.  Thank you so much for your offer of hospitality.  I hope the fires aren't too close to you and your family!  We drove by the Air Force Academy when we were out there last year and now I see it on the news with flames all around it.  Its so sad.

Jane

[acdmom]

Hi Jane - just wanted you to know I live in Colorado Springs about an hour outside of Denver - if you ever need a place to stay and transportation to see your daughter you have a free bed and breakfast at my house we have room and lots of love and support to give!!

[vicki595]

Oh Jane-
Yes, she's mad but she's biting the hand that feeds her!  You're all she's got right now; maybe she needs to be reminded...

As Debbie suggested: THE GYM. It works and I hate to exercise. I started swimming more a few years ago and it really settled me down. I know it's really hot; it is everywhere. You just need to find an activity that's distracting for you. Your mental health depends on it...

Can you begin a new thread? I don't know about everyone else but this one is getting hard to open...
xoxo

[LeaAnn807]

I would be firm.....not forceful!  There is a way to get your point across without adding stress and pain to her from her mama! : )  AND....it may end up causing you more pain to be that way too.  

I know that you warned her.  I was warned about ten gazillion times, but I never listened.  Right now, in  my opinion, jail is a good place for her until she takes responsibility for her actions and until she has been clean for a while.  Every day that she puts between her and her last drug intake is a day toward a sober future!!!  Sometimes it takes jail to do that.  What would happen if she were to be released right now?  If no one told her that she had to go to treatment??  Would she go right back to drugs or has she learned a lesson?  Only she knows that, but the longer she's there, the better the chances that when she gets out she'll never want to go back there again!  I know I sound so harsh, but I am trying to say that she could die next time.  I know that you're quite aware of that, though!  And I'm sorry this is happening.  You seem like such a nice person and loving, caring  mom!

[atthebeach]

hi i was just thinking about you. :)  her emotions are all over the place now. she has now been in jail for 2 weeks and in withdrawals for 2 weeks. she still doesnt feel good., compounded by her worry of her charges and yes what about her future. she knows in her heart of heart that she needs rehab. they try to do it themselves, fail and then when the bottom drops out, they submit.
its ok, to reassure her, she is understandably scared. jail is very hard and definitely will put some fear and a severe reality check into her heart,mind,soul,spirit and body. have you written her a letter yet? has she written to you?
i am so happy the day is here for her to meet with her lawyer.
yes balancing what we say and feel, in a loving way is hard. you have been right all along with the direction in which she was heading, they choose to put on the blinders and believe that they will escape the imminent danger lurking at their side. they do become blindsided. it is hard for them to admit that yes mother was right again.
my daughter just said to me the other day, "of course you are right mom,
you always are," in a semi-sarcastic way.

sending many hugs,much love,prayers,hope,faith,peace
debbie

[sadmom999]

Phone call last night wasn't mean, she was crying.  Saying she would never be the same person again after jail.  

I reminded her she meets with her lawyer tomorrow (today) and she won't be in there forever.  She needs to make plans for the future because she DOES have one.  I asked her if she would go to inpatient rehab then live in a sober house till its legally ok for her to leave CO and then come home.  She said yes.  

My daughter and husband are telling me I need to be a little tougher, that I am feeding into her pity party and I guess they're right.  They say I need to be a little more forceful in my tone of voice with her.  I'm going to try and figure out a way of expressing myself forcefully without being mean.  Its really hard to balance that enough to be effective.  

[sadmom999]

Thanks so much Debbie.  It helps to have your reassurance.  I didn't argue with her thank goodness, I was as unemotional as possible but did say that she chose to hang out with them and I warned her she would relapse and wind up either in jail or dead and she chose to not listen.  

The cabbage was good.  My husband is from a lebanese family (he was born here but his parents immigrated to the U.S.) so they are a little different from the polish recipe...  We put plain yogurt on top.  I don't like yogurt but they are good without it too.  Perogies!!!!  OMG I would love to have one!  Can I call you from I-95 for directions?  LOL

[sadmom999]

Thank you sooooo much.  I really appreciate the time you spent on us.  It really helps to know what was probably going on in her mind when she relapsed.  To me its so black and white, she decided to go off the deep end and that was that.  I guess in her mind it wasn't so black and white although it should have been.  I'm hoping she learned that she can't just "do a little" just this once, ever...  If/when she does make it back here, we will follow your advice to the "T".  When she was out of rehab I was doubting her all the time because she wasn't being tested and she said that made her want to use.  The testing would solve that.

Jane

[atthebeach]

nothing is sacred in jail.if someone wants something they take it. she will learn to guard her things and not have too much of something. yes they will even steal soup and soap.
jane she is only taking partial responsibility? oh well, of course she is looking for someone to blame. she is mad because, she is in jail, she feels like crap, you didnt bail her out, you didnt get her a lawyer.
thats ok, it is her fault, because of the choices she made.
yes it will take time for her to be herself again, many months.
take each thing she says right now with a grain of salt.
i know it is so hard, but try not to argue with her, and add fuel to the fire when she says things to hurt you. she is hurting right now and i think the tendiency when we hurt is too want others to hurt along with us, so we say and do things to cause others to hurt.
you are the only one she can throw darts at right now, so take cover.  
i know for me, what helps tremendously with my depression and overall health was to join the gym. i started 3 months ago and it has helped me in so many ways, my back feels so much better  ( i have arthritis in my back), i sleep better, my head is much clearer, i am generally happier.

how is your stuffed cabbage coming? it brings back so many memories from my childhood, my mom is polish and she always made stuffed cabbage.  i will bring the perogies and rye bread.
what time does the party start?
i will leave now, it will take me about 4 hours to arrive. see you then. :)

[CATUF]

Jane --

i just read through this thread. sorry you're being put through the wringer.  but it sounds like this mess has the potential to save your daughter's life.  we addicts tend to refuse to make the necessary lifestyle changes until we get to the point the pain of staying in active addiction outweighs the pain of changing.  sadly, for most of us that point seems not to arrive until a) we're in deep trouble or b) when all the fun is gone and we're just a slave to the drugs, using only to avoid that special pain of not-using.

for when/if your daughter makes it back to maryland, i will pass on something that i know saved my life and allowed me to make it into sustained recovery -- FREQUENT DRUG TESTS, WITH AN ABSOLUTE ONE STRIKE AND YOU'RE OUT RULE.  

for the first six moths or so (after four months in rehab), i was tested so often that it would have been impossible for me to use without being busted -- literraly, there wasn't enough time between test for the drug to clear, so getting caught was not a chance, it was a certainty.  

per the directors at my rehab, this testing was a must-do.  they essentially said "he will relapse without it and it must be a condition wherever he lives or works."  i was really serious about my recovery, so i didn't object (not that i had any choice) because i told myself that it would prove to everyone that i really was doing it and that i wasn't just pulling the wool over their eyes.  in my mind, the testing was going to be good primarily because it would remove any doubt and prove that i was ok.  so, i saw it as being mainly for them, and really only good for me because it would save me from their (unjustified, i thought) doubt.

boy was i ever surprised to find that the main beneficiary was ME.  it seems to be true for all addicts and alcoholics that the problem is that first use or drink.  the facts show time and time again that if we drink or use, the result is certain.  very few of us relapse with the intent of going back to "full blown addiction," which means throwing our lives down the drain.  we don't want that at all . . . we relapse and go back to full blown addiction because we just need to use a little, this one time and incredibly (but in fact) convince ourselves that somehow it will be different this time.  

As AA puts it, "our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink."  Big Book p. 24.  "The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his [using] is the great obsession of every [addict]. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death."  Id. p. 30.

So we use, honestly thinking that it's going to be different this time, and then no one is more surprised than we are only a short time later when we realize that the only thing different about this time is that it's worse than ever.  and we sit there asking god, or the universe, or just the wall: HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

of course, it happened like it always happens -- we picked up and used, which reactivated our addiction.  it's always that first use that gets us, so it's the first use that presents the grave danger.  THAT is what the constant testing kept me safe from -- the illusion that i could use and not suffer the consequences of my addiction.  since it was a certainty that i would be busted if use, i cold not fall for the trap that this time would be different.

i still thought that.  there were so many times when i wanted to use SO BADLY, and was so honestly certain that i had learned my lesson too well to "let it get out of control" this time, but i couldn't because the testing would find me out. i know i would have used otherwise, the pull for a late-stage addict in early recovery is just too strong.

eventually (after my first year), i was able to step-down to mere random (but still frequent) testing, with the schedule really mixed up so there was absolutely no way to predict.  sometimes there would be testing three days in a row, but then not for ten days, but still 4 or 5 times a month, so that any use was very likely to be caught, even if no longer certain.  finally, after about three years i was done with testing.

testing kept me safe, while i worked my way into sustained recovery.  and staying safe is what recovery is about -- staying safe from a relentlessly progressive disease of the brain that will take the host's life unless it's arrested.  the notion that the addict in recovery should be tested or should prove that they're strong is absurd -- it's exactly the wrong thing to do.

i won't go into it, but any recovery requires work.  not-using is not recovery, nor even the goal.  not-using is just a requirement for actually working on recovery.  think of not-using as being the wings on an airplane --- having wings doesn't mean you're flying, but you have to have 'em if you want to fly. and if you have 'em you can do all the things that otherwise let a plane takeoff and fly.

i hope your daughter takes off and flies.  to keep you grounded (where you'll be the most help to her and ourselves) i strongly recommend that you check out al-anon and go often enough that you feel like you're part of the goup.  a meeting or two here or there won't do much, but the program can work miracles if you let it.

praying for you and your daughter . . .

CATUF
2581

[sadmom999]

Just spoke to her.  She said her face is scratched up and people in there take her kindness as weakness.  She wouldn't elaborate any further except to say someone stole something from her.  She was very bitter and angry and taking it out on me.  I told her I don't deserve her attitude and she put herself there, I didn't put her there.  She said that she accepts "partial" responsibility for being there.  I told her I warned her if she started hanging out with those guys again she would wind up either in jail or dead.

Where does she get off being mean to me?  She needs to get real and face the fact that she's made a LOT of mistakes.  She also said that the last visit was his mother again and she refused the visit.  Is this part of the withdrawal?  Being mean?  This is how those guys she was with act all the time, maybe it will take time for her to become herself again?

[vicki595]

Party?  I love a party! I'll bring Ice Cream...   Wouldn't that be FUN though?

I think a doctors' appt. is a great idea. Let him/her decide what you might need. Maybe you need an anti anxiety med PRN...you can talk it over, at least.

xoxo

[10356]

ohh so do I :))) yumm I will bring the water lol lol :))

[sadmom999]

I wish I could have a party and share the whole batch of cabbage rolls with all of you :-)