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titanium/vanadium/aluminum dental implant
Eleven months ago I had a titanium alloy dental implant along with a sinus lift and bovine bone graft. The surgery was successful and the implant has since integrated with the bone. One to two months after the surgery I started having cramps in the lower extremities that progressed to constant aching in the feet and knees. Five months after the implant I elected to have the swine flu vaccination which resulted in a numb feeling and tingling in the extremities along with diarrhea and dizziness that subsided after a few days. Since then the tingling has combined with the aching in the lower extremities and progressed upward to include the thighs. Exercise makes all of the symptoms worse, as I experience severe aching and muscle twitching after any kind of physical activity. A MRI of the brain and neck revealed increased areas of signal in the brain not consistent with ms. Blood tests suggest autoimmune disfunction (positive ana, antithyroid antibodies, high IgG for parvovirus and EBV and CMV without being conclusive of connective tissue or thyroid disease. A cone beam ct scan revealed an inflammatory process in the sinus above the implant and apical periodontal inflammation on the tooth behind the implant which was also giving me night fevers. I have since had the root canal retreated on the tooth that was being blamed for my mouth discomfort. This has resulted in a 100% improvement in the pain and feverish feeling emanating from THAT tooth, but I still have an strange irritating sensation emanating from the implant that extends to the cheek, nostril, and eye above the implant. I have a feeling the implant is the cause of the mouth trouble and wondering if it is the cause of my neurological symptoms as well. My physical activity has been reduced to a minimum compared to the level of physical activity previous to the surgery. I wonder if the implant does not show the typical symptoms of rejection because of nightly bronchial and nasal steroid inhalations. The implant looks good on scans and xrays. I am not so good. I am living a life of an inactive person because I have no tolerance for exercise. I love to exercise and my dogs need a walk!!! Today I went for a lower back MRI and had a hard time holding still because of feeling crampy and cold.
All of the docs say it is a coincidence that any of my problems started shortly after receiving the implant. I have sent blood in for the Melisa test, but wonder if a reaction will show being I was not able to refrain from using inhalers for five days. The implant has adhered to the bone and looks "perfect". I am ready to get it out and praying I can return to my normal level of activity. Is there anyone out there with some information that could help?
Am I the only one???? I don't think the ADA or the implant manufacturers want to investigate the possibility of this lucrative procedure being a problem for anyone, so it is hard to find any data supporting my suspicion.
Thanks.
All of the docs say it is a coincidence that any of my problems started shortly after receiving the implant. I have sent blood in for the Melisa test, but wonder if a reaction will show being I was not able to refrain from using inhalers for five days. The implant has adhered to the bone and looks "perfect". I am ready to get it out and praying I can return to my normal level of activity. Is there anyone out there with some information that could help?
Am I the only one???? I don't think the ADA or the implant manufacturers want to investigate the possibility of this lucrative procedure being a problem for anyone, so it is hard to find any data supporting my suspicion.
Thanks.
Wow, I feel like Im looking in a mirror. I had upper and lower jaw surgery 3 years ago and my health has never been the same. I was given 4 plates and screws in the mandible and maxilla and got the same story about the bioavailability of titanium, but I question it. I have done some moderate research over the last few months and I found one excellent study about a very small percentage of patients having significant health systems since receiving Ti implants. I wish I would have bookmarked that study but even only spending about 20 minutes researching last night after reading your post I came up with the following... (I'll post excerpts in another response,) but as far as what I experienced, I developed some serious pains in my right foot about 6 or 8 months post op. I never put the two together, but I also noticed my overall recovery was taking quite awhile. Fatigue, light-headedness, weakness and confusion, but the pain in the foot started to spread. It ultimately moved to both feet and now basically my lower limbs are just shot. Just like you, prior to all this I was quite fit and active. I actually was up to working out 6 days a week, and doing heavy cardio on top of weight training. At the moment, I dont think I'll be able to work a year from now, at least a full 50-60 hour work week, if I continue to decline as rapidly as I have been.
I havent moved forward as aggressively as you in my testing because I have to start from square one with another maxilliofacial surgeon and to be honest, I am the type that waits too long to see their doctor and so I keep thinking if I ignore this, it will go away, but I can no longer stand how bad my health has become.
Just out of curiousity, when you did the MELISA, did you have testing for other problematic metals? I know I read somewhere that Ti implants arent pure Ti like people assume. Im not a metalurgist, but I believe the article said it was really an alloy that has properties of other metals that are known to not be as "bioavailable" (such as nickel).
I havent moved forward as aggressively as you in my testing because I have to start from square one with another maxilliofacial surgeon and to be honest, I am the type that waits too long to see their doctor and so I keep thinking if I ignore this, it will go away, but I can no longer stand how bad my health has become.
Just out of curiousity, when you did the MELISA, did you have testing for other problematic metals? I know I read somewhere that Ti implants arent pure Ti like people assume. Im not a metalurgist, but I believe the article said it was really an alloy that has properties of other metals that are known to not be as "bioavailable" (such as nickel).
I found a book online called The Atlas of Craniomaxillofacial Osteosynthesis
Its a medical book for sale and you can only see a couple pages, but from the index there was a whole chapter on plate removal due to immunologic response.
Also....
Allergic reactions to metal implants:
Influence of wear debris
Properties of implant materials and particles. The release of potential allergens
like nickel, chromium or cobalt depends on composition, surface modification
and chemical or physical corrosion factors. Low pH and low oxygenation of
adjacent tissue may influence metallic surface – even leading to titanium release
in surrounding tissue [24]. ”Hidden” nickel contamination of titanium materials may
result from manufacturing processes
FROM THE TRAUMA ORTHOPEDIC JOURNAL
Another example is 6 titanium implants introduced into the jaws of a 49 year woman.
All the implants were of IV degree titanium: LIBB implant, cylinder implant and the
Brånemark type. It was a part of research project supervised by Ethical Commission. A
serious clinical and radiological reaction followed around all the implants, which made
the removal of the implant necessary. After which the allergic ailment was healed.
Histological: irritation reaction and setting of the cells of intrusive object and the
process of fibration
FROM A SPANISH STUDY
Background: In dentistry, allergic reactions to Ti implants have not been studied, nor considered by professionals. Placing permanent metal dental implants in allergic patients can provoke type IV or I reactions. Several symptoms have been described, from skin rashes and implant failure, to non-specific immune suppression.
Objective: Our objective was to evaluate the presence of titanium allergy by the anamnesis and examination of patients, together with the selective use of cutaneous and epicutaneous testing, in patients treated with or intending to receive dental implants of such material.
Material and methods: Thirty-five subjects out of 1500 implant patients treated and/or examined (2002–2004) were selected for Ti allergy analysis. Sixteen presented allergic symptoms after implant placement or unexplained implant failures [allergy compatible response group (ACRG)], while 19 had a history of other allergies, or were heavily Ti exposed during implant surgeries or had explained implant failures [predisposing factors group (PFG)]. Thirty-five controls were randomly selected (CG) in the Allergy Centre. Cutaneous and epicutaneous tests were carried out.
Results: Nine out of the 1500 patients displayed positive (+) reactions to Ti allergy tests (0.6%): eight in the ACRG (50%), one in the PFG (5.3%)(P=0.009) and zero in the control group. Five positives were unexplained implant failures (five out of eight).
Conclusions: Ti allergy can be detected in dental implant patients, even though its estimated prevalence is low (0.6%). A significantly higher risk of positive allergic reaction was found in patients showing post-op allergy compatible response (ACRG), in which cases allergy tests could be recommended.
Its a medical book for sale and you can only see a couple pages, but from the index there was a whole chapter on plate removal due to immunologic response.
Also....
Allergic reactions to metal implants:
Influence of wear debris
Properties of implant materials and particles. The release of potential allergens
like nickel, chromium or cobalt depends on composition, surface modification
and chemical or physical corrosion factors. Low pH and low oxygenation of
adjacent tissue may influence metallic surface – even leading to titanium release
in surrounding tissue [24]. ”Hidden” nickel contamination of titanium materials may
result from manufacturing processes
FROM THE TRAUMA ORTHOPEDIC JOURNAL
Another example is 6 titanium implants introduced into the jaws of a 49 year woman.
All the implants were of IV degree titanium: LIBB implant, cylinder implant and the
Brånemark type. It was a part of research project supervised by Ethical Commission. A
serious clinical and radiological reaction followed around all the implants, which made
the removal of the implant necessary. After which the allergic ailment was healed.
Histological: irritation reaction and setting of the cells of intrusive object and the
process of fibration
FROM A SPANISH STUDY
Background: In dentistry, allergic reactions to Ti implants have not been studied, nor considered by professionals. Placing permanent metal dental implants in allergic patients can provoke type IV or I reactions. Several symptoms have been described, from skin rashes and implant failure, to non-specific immune suppression.
Objective: Our objective was to evaluate the presence of titanium allergy by the anamnesis and examination of patients, together with the selective use of cutaneous and epicutaneous testing, in patients treated with or intending to receive dental implants of such material.
Material and methods: Thirty-five subjects out of 1500 implant patients treated and/or examined (2002–2004) were selected for Ti allergy analysis. Sixteen presented allergic symptoms after implant placement or unexplained implant failures [allergy compatible response group (ACRG)], while 19 had a history of other allergies, or were heavily Ti exposed during implant surgeries or had explained implant failures [predisposing factors group (PFG)]. Thirty-five controls were randomly selected (CG) in the Allergy Centre. Cutaneous and epicutaneous tests were carried out.
Results: Nine out of the 1500 patients displayed positive (+) reactions to Ti allergy tests (0.6%): eight in the ACRG (50%), one in the PFG (5.3%)(P=0.009) and zero in the control group. Five positives were unexplained implant failures (five out of eight).
Conclusions: Ti allergy can be detected in dental implant patients, even though its estimated prevalence is low (0.6%). A significantly higher risk of positive allergic reaction was found in patients showing post-op allergy compatible response (ACRG), in which cases allergy tests could be recommended.
YOU CAN FIND THE FOLLOWING ON A FEW DIFFERENT SITES. ITS NOT VERY PROFESSIONALLY WRITTEN AND I DONT KNOW WHO THE AUTHOR IS, NOR DO THEY REFERENCE STUDIES, BUT I THINK A LOT OF IT RINGS TRUE.
Titanium is NOT Biologically Inert
Titanium implants release metal ions into your mouth 24 hours a day, and this chronic exposure may trigger inflammation, allergies, and autoimmune disease in susceptible individuals. They are a precursor to disease.
Cases of intolerance to metal implants have been reported over the years, and the removal of this incompatible dental material has resulted in reduced metal sensitivity and long-term health improvement in the majority of patients.
Titanium has the potential to induce hypersensitivity as well as other immunological dysfunctions.
One study investigated 56 patients who developed severe health problems after receiving titanium-based dental implants. These medical problems included muscle, joint, and nerve pain; chronic fatigue syndrome; neurological problems; depression; and skin inflammation.
Removal of the implants resulted in a dramatic improvement in the patients’ symptoms, as well as a decrease in many patients’ sensitivity to titanium.
FROM A GREAT GERMAN STUDY ABOUT A WOMAN WHO CAME DOWN "with myalgia and arthralgia predominantly in the knees and small joints of the hands and feet, with morning stiffness lasting at least 2 h. AFTER RECEIVING Ti IMPLANT.
CONCLUSION:Clinicians should be aware of the possibility of implant-related immune activation when patients develop symptoms of arthritis after receiving implants. Diagnostic testing by TNF-release assay could be a diagnostic tool in these patients, although comprehensive studies are needed to test the validity of this method of diagnosis in broader populations. The arthritic complaints were alleviated in the case patient following removal of the implant.
SITED PAPER COMMENTS IN A PhD STUDY
The extensive use of metal implants in orthopedic surgery as well as in dentistry calls for a general attention to their biological safety. Titanium (Ti) is used for many types of implants and is generally considered a safe metal to use in implantation. However, it has been shown that particulate debris, also in the nanoscale range, are released from implants. These particulate debris may cause health problems either at the implant site or in distant organs (Frisken et al. 2002).
Titanium is NOT Biologically Inert
Titanium implants release metal ions into your mouth 24 hours a day, and this chronic exposure may trigger inflammation, allergies, and autoimmune disease in susceptible individuals. They are a precursor to disease.
Cases of intolerance to metal implants have been reported over the years, and the removal of this incompatible dental material has resulted in reduced metal sensitivity and long-term health improvement in the majority of patients.
Titanium has the potential to induce hypersensitivity as well as other immunological dysfunctions.
One study investigated 56 patients who developed severe health problems after receiving titanium-based dental implants. These medical problems included muscle, joint, and nerve pain; chronic fatigue syndrome; neurological problems; depression; and skin inflammation.
Removal of the implants resulted in a dramatic improvement in the patients’ symptoms, as well as a decrease in many patients’ sensitivity to titanium.
FROM A GREAT GERMAN STUDY ABOUT A WOMAN WHO CAME DOWN "with myalgia and arthralgia predominantly in the knees and small joints of the hands and feet, with morning stiffness lasting at least 2 h. AFTER RECEIVING Ti IMPLANT.
CONCLUSION:Clinicians should be aware of the possibility of implant-related immune activation when patients develop symptoms of arthritis after receiving implants. Diagnostic testing by TNF-release assay could be a diagnostic tool in these patients, although comprehensive studies are needed to test the validity of this method of diagnosis in broader populations. The arthritic complaints were alleviated in the case patient following removal of the implant.
SITED PAPER COMMENTS IN A PhD STUDY
The extensive use of metal implants in orthopedic surgery as well as in dentistry calls for a general attention to their biological safety. Titanium (Ti) is used for many types of implants and is generally considered a safe metal to use in implantation. However, it has been shown that particulate debris, also in the nanoscale range, are released from implants. These particulate debris may cause health problems either at the implant site or in distant organs (Frisken et al. 2002).
Thanks. I have read some of the info. you refer to. A 2002 study published by the "Journal of Materials Science: Materials in Medicine" reveals that aluminum leaks diffusely into the surrounding bone of dental implants. Apparently none of what we are reading is of any consequence to the conclusions of the safety of dental implants for the American Dental Association. Alot of the research reveals what can support the multi-million/billion?? dollar medical and pharmaceutical industry, I think.
I was able to get the materials specification from the manufacturer of my dental implant in order to be tested for a reaction to these materials via the Melisa test. I read somewhere in an orthopedic journal that there is a lymphokine test that is related to the lymphocyte transformation test Melisa offers. None of the various healthcare providers have offered this to me. You should talk to your surgeon about getting the materials specification of what is in your body so you can be tested for it. I expect the results of the Melisa test later this week, so I will let you know.
Meanwhile I am going to an oral surgeon this afternoon for a consultation on the removal of this implant. I may be doing this regardless of the Melisa test, as I don't know what else to do. I would like to get back my life!! I feel sorry for you, as the materials in your jaw are much more extensive and a single dental implant.
Oh--I asked a dental hygenist who has practiced for 30 years if she had ever heard of something similar to my situation. A friend of hers also had an implant which had adhered to the bone. This person also started having a myriad of health issues, and so had the implant removed and did start feeling better. This would contradict my periodontists' assertion that osseointigration of implant material is evidence of no problem for your body. I gave her my number and asked for her friend to call me. I am waiting to talk to her.
Talk to you later.
I was able to get the materials specification from the manufacturer of my dental implant in order to be tested for a reaction to these materials via the Melisa test. I read somewhere in an orthopedic journal that there is a lymphokine test that is related to the lymphocyte transformation test Melisa offers. None of the various healthcare providers have offered this to me. You should talk to your surgeon about getting the materials specification of what is in your body so you can be tested for it. I expect the results of the Melisa test later this week, so I will let you know.
Meanwhile I am going to an oral surgeon this afternoon for a consultation on the removal of this implant. I may be doing this regardless of the Melisa test, as I don't know what else to do. I would like to get back my life!! I feel sorry for you, as the materials in your jaw are much more extensive and a single dental implant.
Oh--I asked a dental hygenist who has practiced for 30 years if she had ever heard of something similar to my situation. A friend of hers also had an implant which had adhered to the bone. This person also started having a myriad of health issues, and so had the implant removed and did start feeling better. This would contradict my periodontists' assertion that osseointigration of implant material is evidence of no problem for your body. I gave her my number and asked for her friend to call me. I am waiting to talk to her.
Talk to you later.
I am just curious--have you suffered neurological symptoms, or is it just an aching in your muscles and/or joints? Do you have any symptoms in the area of the implants? Do you notice your symptoms are worse after any kind of activity?
Thanks for responding. I am so grateful I found your posting because I guess I feel validated by whats going on with me as I read more about what is going on with you. Plus, what I'm researching and also the story of the friend of your hygienist who had similar issues seems to confirm quite a lot.
For one, you are far more advanced and knowledgeable than where I am at with this. It didnt even occur to me to research the plates and screws used on me. The very unfortunate problem behind all this is that my surgeon is really incompetent. He completely oversold his skills and led me to believe he could fix all my problems. He did a horrible job and put the jaws back off center, cantilevered and rotated. Yes, all three axis of the 3D plane are wrong. On top of that, he collapsed the middle vault of my nose, so the right side caved in. I already had that fixed by an amazing surgeon but I know I have to get more follow up work on top of all the damage. After three requests he still wont release my file and many of the important pages from the hospital records out of his file have been copied so lightly, they are unreadable. I dont know if I'll ever get proper information from him.
As far the lymphokine test, is it possible for you to point me in a direction regarding that study? I have a wonderful internist at a major university and she is quite open to information I bring to her, so she may be willing to help me move forward in regard to all this. She is definitely aware of my health changes and she has mulled over the concept that I have a fibromylagia, but my instinct leads me back to this all being started within months of post op. I remember in my earlier research the study that mentions it takes a few months post op for symptoms to manifest, and that is in line with how mine progressed.
As far as neurological, yes. Outside of poor mental focus and a bit of memory loss, the one thing that bothers me a lot is a pulsing that occurs in the eyes. I know that sounds weird, but it wasn't a typical twitch, but a pulse that occurred intermittently for awhile and moved back and forth between one eye and the other. The first time it happened I became totally alarmed and ultimately went to my ophthalmologist who could find nothing wrong. It happens every once in awhile without warning and I have sort of become used to it, but I have no other explanation.
And yes, my mental focus has dwindled significantly. Anything that takes exerted effort just leaves me scatter brained.
I also want these plates out. I have pain around them still, but I was chalking that up to how off my bite is because of his poor surgery, but now Im more concerned that its direct inflammation and bone damage that is continuing.
I am anxious to know how your visit with the oral surgeon goes. I tend to agree with you, if I am understanding your point on that many people who work in the field are either not aware of, or wont admit to the problems with Ti. I think the bandwagon has been well established that its an inert, bioavailable material, and most dont want to hear any different.
After communicating with you, I know Im going to have start moving forward with tests and looking at options. I think my internist will help me as much as she can, but I have lost faith in the oral surgeon community. Plus, my removal will be major surgery, but I know I have to do something to get my normal life back.
Please keep writing!
For one, you are far more advanced and knowledgeable than where I am at with this. It didnt even occur to me to research the plates and screws used on me. The very unfortunate problem behind all this is that my surgeon is really incompetent. He completely oversold his skills and led me to believe he could fix all my problems. He did a horrible job and put the jaws back off center, cantilevered and rotated. Yes, all three axis of the 3D plane are wrong. On top of that, he collapsed the middle vault of my nose, so the right side caved in. I already had that fixed by an amazing surgeon but I know I have to get more follow up work on top of all the damage. After three requests he still wont release my file and many of the important pages from the hospital records out of his file have been copied so lightly, they are unreadable. I dont know if I'll ever get proper information from him.
As far the lymphokine test, is it possible for you to point me in a direction regarding that study? I have a wonderful internist at a major university and she is quite open to information I bring to her, so she may be willing to help me move forward in regard to all this. She is definitely aware of my health changes and she has mulled over the concept that I have a fibromylagia, but my instinct leads me back to this all being started within months of post op. I remember in my earlier research the study that mentions it takes a few months post op for symptoms to manifest, and that is in line with how mine progressed.
As far as neurological, yes. Outside of poor mental focus and a bit of memory loss, the one thing that bothers me a lot is a pulsing that occurs in the eyes. I know that sounds weird, but it wasn't a typical twitch, but a pulse that occurred intermittently for awhile and moved back and forth between one eye and the other. The first time it happened I became totally alarmed and ultimately went to my ophthalmologist who could find nothing wrong. It happens every once in awhile without warning and I have sort of become used to it, but I have no other explanation.
And yes, my mental focus has dwindled significantly. Anything that takes exerted effort just leaves me scatter brained.
I also want these plates out. I have pain around them still, but I was chalking that up to how off my bite is because of his poor surgery, but now Im more concerned that its direct inflammation and bone damage that is continuing.
I am anxious to know how your visit with the oral surgeon goes. I tend to agree with you, if I am understanding your point on that many people who work in the field are either not aware of, or wont admit to the problems with Ti. I think the bandwagon has been well established that its an inert, bioavailable material, and most dont want to hear any different.
After communicating with you, I know Im going to have start moving forward with tests and looking at options. I think my internist will help me as much as she can, but I have lost faith in the oral surgeon community. Plus, my removal will be major surgery, but I know I have to do something to get my normal life back.
Please keep writing!
1 Comments
I had to have my jaw joints replaced and all implants put in due to an accident. Dr. Movahed done my surgery , and left me with big issues. Wondering if he did your surgery.
So, from the math in the Spanish study, about 1 out 150 or 180 (depending on how you read the numbers) have an immunologic reaction to Ti. And then take into account how many people dont relate their ailment to the implants and get a misdiagnosis from another physician so they dont figure into the real numbers. I could see in real life how that number of occurrences may be actually higher, but the number correctly diagnosed may be lower.
I really like my doctor but she seems to be going in a wrong direction with this and wants to categorize me with fibromyalgia. Thats why Id like to bring her some information and see if she'd help with the lymphokine and MELISA tests.
I think those odds are just high enough so that the oral surgeon community isn't/or doesnt want to be aware of them so that it is an issue.
How did the appointment with the oral surgeon go?
I really like my doctor but she seems to be going in a wrong direction with this and wants to categorize me with fibromyalgia. Thats why Id like to bring her some information and see if she'd help with the lymphokine and MELISA tests.
I think those odds are just high enough so that the oral surgeon community isn't/or doesnt want to be aware of them so that it is an issue.
How did the appointment with the oral surgeon go?
You can go to www.melisa.org and find out about ordering the test yourself. They will tell you to get a materials specification list of the implants you have. I think I read somewhere that the lymphokine test is a more updated term for lymphocyte--maybe an orthopedic surgeon could help you. I didn't want to spend more time and money going to another surgeon to find this out, but maybe one who does joint replacement on a regular basis would be someone familiar with this kind of testing.
I scheduled an appt. with the oral surgeon to have the implant removed. I am also going to consult with the periodontist who installed the implant about having it removed. I will go with whoever I think can do a better job. My husband went with me to the oral surgeon & made the comment "Oh, I think they think you are a little crazy". At least I have a spouse who knows the effect these symptoms are having on our lives!!
I scheduled an appt. with the oral surgeon to have the implant removed. I am also going to consult with the periodontist who installed the implant about having it removed. I will go with whoever I think can do a better job. My husband went with me to the oral surgeon & made the comment "Oh, I think they think you are a little crazy". At least I have a spouse who knows the effect these symptoms are having on our lives!!
So can I ask what sort of neurological issues were you having, if any?
Congrats on having it removed!
Congrats on having it removed!
A few months after the implant I started having cramping in the lower extremities that evolved into a constant ache in the feet and knees. I thought perhaps I was developing arthritis and at the time did not make a connection to the implant. A few months later I was silly enough to get the swine flu shot at the local health dept. and had a bad reaction to that. Neurological symptoms include burning pain in the knees as well as aching in the forearms and a numb feeling in the left hand. My right leg is also quite painful and I have no tolerance for exercise. Never in my life have I ever been so inactive for such an extended period of time. I am worried that these symptoms could be transverse myelitis as a symptom of ms, but I also have an itchy annoying feeling in the area of the implant and always feel like I have a low grade infection in the area. Sensitivity to metal can cause neurological symptoms, so this is why I think my symptoms may be related to the implant.
Today I saw my allergist (all I do is go to dr. appts!) and she said that if my body had a problem with the implant that it would be loosening at the site. I wish this would happen!!! She also said there is no evidence that having an implant of any kind will produce problems with autoimmunity or the symptoms I am having in other parts of the body. ---I guess all those women with health issues due to the breast implants are delusional!! So apparently none of what I am saying or feeling has any basis in reality or science. This is pretty much what most health care practitioners say.
Meanwhile, my health and energy levels continue to decline. I was not able to get a removal date until the 24th. The periodontist wants me to wait until the permanent filling is in the tooth they did a retreat on the root canal on, and for a month after that to see if the feeling in my mouth will go away. He also says that he is 100% sure that none of my symptoms are related to the implant. He just does not get it.
Next week I am going to an ENT to talk about the inflammation of the sinus above the implant and to ask his opinion, so I will let you know how that goes.
--I am supposed to have the results of the melisa test at the end of this week, and tomorrow is Friday. I will let you know about that.
Later.....
Today I saw my allergist (all I do is go to dr. appts!) and she said that if my body had a problem with the implant that it would be loosening at the site. I wish this would happen!!! She also said there is no evidence that having an implant of any kind will produce problems with autoimmunity or the symptoms I am having in other parts of the body. ---I guess all those women with health issues due to the breast implants are delusional!! So apparently none of what I am saying or feeling has any basis in reality or science. This is pretty much what most health care practitioners say.
Meanwhile, my health and energy levels continue to decline. I was not able to get a removal date until the 24th. The periodontist wants me to wait until the permanent filling is in the tooth they did a retreat on the root canal on, and for a month after that to see if the feeling in my mouth will go away. He also says that he is 100% sure that none of my symptoms are related to the implant. He just does not get it.
Next week I am going to an ENT to talk about the inflammation of the sinus above the implant and to ask his opinion, so I will let you know how that goes.
--I am supposed to have the results of the melisa test at the end of this week, and tomorrow is Friday. I will let you know about that.
Later.....
The surgeon who won't release your files?? It is the law that you are entitled to your health records, and you should be able to read what you get. It is also illegal to alter the information on your records.
I did encounter some resistance or maybe it was nervousness when I inquired about the materials used in my implant. I told them that either they could get me the information, or that I would get someone to get it for me. It is material in my body that I have paid for--give me a break!
Sorry if sound wound up--all of this has been trying on my patience!
I did encounter some resistance or maybe it was nervousness when I inquired about the materials used in my implant. I told them that either they could get me the information, or that I would get someone to get it for me. It is material in my body that I have paid for--give me a break!
Sorry if sound wound up--all of this has been trying on my patience!
Please feel free to be wound up... Ive been wound up over this for a few years. Yes, this doctor turned out to be about the slimiest person I have ever dealt with. (You know the old saying, someone had to graduate at the bottom of their medical school) I fell for his sales pitch in him telling me everything I wanted to hear. I had the procedure to help my sleep apnea, and now I'm in more pain, I breathe worse because of his sloppy work and collapsing my middle vault, and both upper and lower jaws are crooked. Also, as my dentist verifies, this doctor "made the deepest incisions I've ever seen" for a surgery like mine, and he wont release my full file (I've seen it on the desk, its probably 50-75 pages long. They will only release 9 pages.)
So, I can totally relate to whats going on with your legs and feet. As I said, mine started in one foot, but over time spread to both feet and legs. What I find fascinating was the first paper I ever read claimed the number one complaint of symptoms regarding allergic reaction to dental Ti implants was chronic sinus inflammation. I had to get my nose basically gutted and rebuilt with rib cartilage because the jaw surgeon was so sloppy and invasive. But even before the rebuild, I developed chronic sinus inflammation. My nose/sinuses felt "swollen" inside and it was hard to breathe, but I wasnt typically congested. It is like this to this day.
Isnt it tremendously aggravating when physicians just flat out say "this definitely isnt related to the implant?" Dont you just want to say, "Hey Doc, let me stick a hunk of metal in your body, and you know, if it bothers you, I'll tell you that you are crazy?" Physicians are so dogmatic to trust a study (you know, the one done by the manufacturer which is being pitched by the good looking medical sales rep with the glossy brochure) over their own patients real life symptoms, that they are really jeopardizing the patients well being.
Well, Im sorry you are going through this because I certainly know what you are up against. I'll keep checking back here if you dont mind keeping me up to date. You are giving me inspiration to want to move forward with my own issues.
Thanks!
So, I can totally relate to whats going on with your legs and feet. As I said, mine started in one foot, but over time spread to both feet and legs. What I find fascinating was the first paper I ever read claimed the number one complaint of symptoms regarding allergic reaction to dental Ti implants was chronic sinus inflammation. I had to get my nose basically gutted and rebuilt with rib cartilage because the jaw surgeon was so sloppy and invasive. But even before the rebuild, I developed chronic sinus inflammation. My nose/sinuses felt "swollen" inside and it was hard to breathe, but I wasnt typically congested. It is like this to this day.
Isnt it tremendously aggravating when physicians just flat out say "this definitely isnt related to the implant?" Dont you just want to say, "Hey Doc, let me stick a hunk of metal in your body, and you know, if it bothers you, I'll tell you that you are crazy?" Physicians are so dogmatic to trust a study (you know, the one done by the manufacturer which is being pitched by the good looking medical sales rep with the glossy brochure) over their own patients real life symptoms, that they are really jeopardizing the patients well being.
Well, Im sorry you are going through this because I certainly know what you are up against. I'll keep checking back here if you dont mind keeping me up to date. You are giving me inspiration to want to move forward with my own issues.
Thanks!
I am thinking an attorney could get your file for you. It sounds like you really have endured some pain and suffering!
Another symptom I forgot to mention is that I have taken 3+ separate courses of antibiotics for pain in the area of the implant that is accompanied by a fever and malaise. The pain and fever returns after I stop taking the antibiotics. I woke up this morning with pain and a sick, feverish feeling. Fortunately, the periodontist who installed the implant called me in another course of antibiotics and I am going to see him on Monday. Last I heard he wants me to wait another month+ to see if things will "calm down". I am tired of talking--I want this thing out!
If it is any consolation, the periodontist who performed my sinus lift/bone graft/implant did a technically sound job. It is just the material itself that does not agree with me. I suspect you would still be suffering, even if the job was done "right". Do you mind my asking, what led you to have the surgery in the first place?
Melisa did contact me & said they have preliminary results that need to be reviewed by the medical director. Hopefully I will have that info. on Monday.
Are you able to do any physical activity at all? My arms and legs feel heavy and ache, and this gets worse with any kind of activity. It would be a dream if I could get back my former level of physical stamina. I feel so weak & I just hate it! I have always been an active person. I am grateful I can still walk, but a life without activity is foreign--I want to go home!
Another symptom I forgot to mention is that I have taken 3+ separate courses of antibiotics for pain in the area of the implant that is accompanied by a fever and malaise. The pain and fever returns after I stop taking the antibiotics. I woke up this morning with pain and a sick, feverish feeling. Fortunately, the periodontist who installed the implant called me in another course of antibiotics and I am going to see him on Monday. Last I heard he wants me to wait another month+ to see if things will "calm down". I am tired of talking--I want this thing out!
If it is any consolation, the periodontist who performed my sinus lift/bone graft/implant did a technically sound job. It is just the material itself that does not agree with me. I suspect you would still be suffering, even if the job was done "right". Do you mind my asking, what led you to have the surgery in the first place?
Melisa did contact me & said they have preliminary results that need to be reviewed by the medical director. Hopefully I will have that info. on Monday.
Are you able to do any physical activity at all? My arms and legs feel heavy and ache, and this gets worse with any kind of activity. It would be a dream if I could get back my former level of physical stamina. I feel so weak & I just hate it! I have always been an active person. I am grateful I can still walk, but a life without activity is foreign--I want to go home!
In reading back a bit---you had this jaw surgery for sleep apnea??? Did you have recessed jaw that you were trying to move forward for better breathing? Did it help your apnea?
Sleep apnea has been another constant bother in my life. Up until all of this, I thought it was the worst thing ever. I felt like I was being tortured night after night--breathing through a straw that would keep collapsing. After I started using the cpap machine, my nose would swell (they tell me it is vasomotor rhinitis), and so the machine was ineffective for a long time. Nasal rinsing and sprays were ineffective. Finally I started using a timed-release sudafed a few hours before bedtime to keep the nasal passages open. After the sudafed I need to take a sleeping pill, but it is worth it.
I always thought sleep apnea was for the obese and big men who snore. It is embarrassing I have to wear a mask and drag around a machine like an old sick person you see at the airport. Life is weird....., but I shouldn't have complained!
Sleep apnea has been another constant bother in my life. Up until all of this, I thought it was the worst thing ever. I felt like I was being tortured night after night--breathing through a straw that would keep collapsing. After I started using the cpap machine, my nose would swell (they tell me it is vasomotor rhinitis), and so the machine was ineffective for a long time. Nasal rinsing and sprays were ineffective. Finally I started using a timed-release sudafed a few hours before bedtime to keep the nasal passages open. After the sudafed I need to take a sleeping pill, but it is worth it.
I always thought sleep apnea was for the obese and big men who snore. It is embarrassing I have to wear a mask and drag around a machine like an old sick person you see at the airport. Life is weird....., but I shouldn't have complained!
I do have that burning pain in the knees and feet - and an allergic type reaction. My problem is I can't find a dental surgeon to take out implants.
Well as far as my files, this is my feeling. He has this woman who works at the front desk who in my opinion, is a snake in the grass. Had I been around the block a few more times I would have not fallen for his sales pitch nor their total unethical billing, not to mention file tampering. I admit, in the beginning I went in there wanting to hear how he could fix all my problems and he basically gave me a response I wanted to hear.
Also, my dentist who "knows" of this guy also said to me (after the fact, unfortunately) "Why did you go to him, he's not really known for doing complex surgeries like this." So, basically, he oversold his skills, albeit he is a certified surgeon.... just not very good at it. I can almost forgive that notion, but what I still get furious over is like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, when I started to tell him about all the things that went wrong, he turned into an evasive, lying snake.
So all in all, it was a nightmare... from billing to surgery to recovery to trying to figure out what went wrong.... just a nightmare. But in my first wave of trying to get second and third opinions, I met a couple of his patients who were disgusted as well with both how he runs his office and the end result. They both were looking for revisions, so 3 for 3 needing a repair job.
But what I meant to say at the top of this letter was Ive asked for my complete file 3x already, twice in writing. Unfortunately I never made copies or had any with me, and both the doctor and his secretary have lied to me sooooo many times, I think I need to go in there, make it evident I have two copies, bring in a witness and have them sign my copy. If I dont get it in 30 days, I file a complaint with the states attorney.
And just to clarify how bad they are... when it came time to pay my bill, (while I was still all swollen and recuperating and not yet aware of how messed up I was) I was having insurance issues, so they actually opened up other patients files in front of me and showed me their paperwork as proof that if I hounded my insurance enough, they will pay. They actually gave me photocopies of other peoples financial statements. I have more pages of strangers files than I do of my own!!!!
Now dont get me wrong, I am not a doctor basher. I tend to not always agree with many Ive seen, but for the most part I love my internist. Ive been seeing her for over 10 years and the guy who my nose was incredibly skilled. This maxfax doctor, though.... how people like that are allowed to practice is beyond me.
Anyway, back to your questions... whew!
Regarding apnea, yes, that was the reason for the surgery. I had a sleep study done because my internist said at some point, its like living with sleep deprivation. The study showed I was 1/2 point away on the scale (cant remember the acronym now) from being a "severe" case. I indeed have a small mandible that when I would lay on my back would sort of unhinge and even close up further, putting just enough weight and pressure on the throat to close it up and cause this apnea. It got so bad that in the middle of the night I would bolt straight up in bed gasping for air. I thought that only happened in the movies, but mine got that bad. Its a mechanical default in my case, not due to bodyweight. At best I'm 6 or 7 pounds over my ideal weight but this started being a problem ages ago when I was 10 or so pounds under my prime weight. Even moving the jaw several millimeters is apparently enough to open the airway to eliminate apnea.
I did talk to a CPAP specialist and she said CPAP helps, but the surgery is the cure. Well, in my case, it should have been, but I trusted a hack, so now everything is worse.
I wont lie to you, its a tough surgery. I do believe my recovery was very hard because the vault collapsed and I was in remarkable pain for so long. You have to be banded shut and eat liquefied food for weeks and weeks. The swelling remains for a long time and you basically need several weeks off from life and lay in bed sitting as upright as possible for 1 month at least, preferably longer. Its not easy.
The sad thing is I joined a couple yahoo groups of patients who are considering it, are about to go through it, or just had it done. I've looked at about 200+ cases where people come out looking great, and only about 5 or 6 look a bit off. I figured those are pretty good odds for such an invasive surgery, but lo and behold, my doc was right in that tiny percentage of not really knowing what he was doing. And I started this process in 2003. It took two years to research, find orthodontists, find a surgeon and lobby my insurance. Then at the end of 2005 I get braces for surgery (which cost 1500 dollars more than regular because you get 4 little extra hooks put on before surgery...) Then the surgery in 2007 and another in 2008 to fix the nose.
Seven years of chasing what I thought was an answer and I would have been better off to get a CPAP, and I am still not sure what is wrong with my health post op and trying to figure out how to fix the aesthetic mess the maxfax made.
And finally.... yes, burning hot knife pain in several areas of the feet and a hot knife a couple inches above right knee... really the bottom of the right quadricep. Also, general achiness in my legs which I have never had before and extreme fatigue that can last 3 to 7 days and then I'll be okay for awhile, even though I feel as if something is wrong. Its chronic, but not in intensity. A bit of a roller coaster but I dread the mornings. Absolutely dread having to take those first steps... its horrible, and when I tell people, they just kind of say, "whatever... everybody ages," but I know something is seriously wrong.
Since my surgery, like you, Im on clarinex-D 24 hour dosage, with lunesta for sleep and celebrex for pain. Pre-surgery I was on nothing and worked out pretty regularly, sometimes 2x a day, weights and cardio split.
Now, I ache and hobble around....
I think instead of going into a long winded story of what I think is going on with me, I'm just going to start telling people I have heavy metal poisoning. When people hear the word poison, they tend to take you more seriously.
Cut and pasted from a heavy metal toxicity website:
As an example of the scope of a heavy metal's toxicity, lead can affect the nervous system, gastrointestinal system, cardiovascular system, blood production, kidneys, and reproductive system.
Symptoms of heavy metal toxicity include mental confusion, pain in muscles and joints, headaches, short-term memory loss, gastrointestinal upsets, food intolerances/allergies, vision problems, chronic fatigue, and others. The symptoms are so vague that it is difficult to diagnose based on symptoms alone.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Also, my dentist who "knows" of this guy also said to me (after the fact, unfortunately) "Why did you go to him, he's not really known for doing complex surgeries like this." So, basically, he oversold his skills, albeit he is a certified surgeon.... just not very good at it. I can almost forgive that notion, but what I still get furious over is like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, when I started to tell him about all the things that went wrong, he turned into an evasive, lying snake.
So all in all, it was a nightmare... from billing to surgery to recovery to trying to figure out what went wrong.... just a nightmare. But in my first wave of trying to get second and third opinions, I met a couple of his patients who were disgusted as well with both how he runs his office and the end result. They both were looking for revisions, so 3 for 3 needing a repair job.
But what I meant to say at the top of this letter was Ive asked for my complete file 3x already, twice in writing. Unfortunately I never made copies or had any with me, and both the doctor and his secretary have lied to me sooooo many times, I think I need to go in there, make it evident I have two copies, bring in a witness and have them sign my copy. If I dont get it in 30 days, I file a complaint with the states attorney.
And just to clarify how bad they are... when it came time to pay my bill, (while I was still all swollen and recuperating and not yet aware of how messed up I was) I was having insurance issues, so they actually opened up other patients files in front of me and showed me their paperwork as proof that if I hounded my insurance enough, they will pay. They actually gave me photocopies of other peoples financial statements. I have more pages of strangers files than I do of my own!!!!
Now dont get me wrong, I am not a doctor basher. I tend to not always agree with many Ive seen, but for the most part I love my internist. Ive been seeing her for over 10 years and the guy who my nose was incredibly skilled. This maxfax doctor, though.... how people like that are allowed to practice is beyond me.
Anyway, back to your questions... whew!
Regarding apnea, yes, that was the reason for the surgery. I had a sleep study done because my internist said at some point, its like living with sleep deprivation. The study showed I was 1/2 point away on the scale (cant remember the acronym now) from being a "severe" case. I indeed have a small mandible that when I would lay on my back would sort of unhinge and even close up further, putting just enough weight and pressure on the throat to close it up and cause this apnea. It got so bad that in the middle of the night I would bolt straight up in bed gasping for air. I thought that only happened in the movies, but mine got that bad. Its a mechanical default in my case, not due to bodyweight. At best I'm 6 or 7 pounds over my ideal weight but this started being a problem ages ago when I was 10 or so pounds under my prime weight. Even moving the jaw several millimeters is apparently enough to open the airway to eliminate apnea.
I did talk to a CPAP specialist and she said CPAP helps, but the surgery is the cure. Well, in my case, it should have been, but I trusted a hack, so now everything is worse.
I wont lie to you, its a tough surgery. I do believe my recovery was very hard because the vault collapsed and I was in remarkable pain for so long. You have to be banded shut and eat liquefied food for weeks and weeks. The swelling remains for a long time and you basically need several weeks off from life and lay in bed sitting as upright as possible for 1 month at least, preferably longer. Its not easy.
The sad thing is I joined a couple yahoo groups of patients who are considering it, are about to go through it, or just had it done. I've looked at about 200+ cases where people come out looking great, and only about 5 or 6 look a bit off. I figured those are pretty good odds for such an invasive surgery, but lo and behold, my doc was right in that tiny percentage of not really knowing what he was doing. And I started this process in 2003. It took two years to research, find orthodontists, find a surgeon and lobby my insurance. Then at the end of 2005 I get braces for surgery (which cost 1500 dollars more than regular because you get 4 little extra hooks put on before surgery...) Then the surgery in 2007 and another in 2008 to fix the nose.
Seven years of chasing what I thought was an answer and I would have been better off to get a CPAP, and I am still not sure what is wrong with my health post op and trying to figure out how to fix the aesthetic mess the maxfax made.
And finally.... yes, burning hot knife pain in several areas of the feet and a hot knife a couple inches above right knee... really the bottom of the right quadricep. Also, general achiness in my legs which I have never had before and extreme fatigue that can last 3 to 7 days and then I'll be okay for awhile, even though I feel as if something is wrong. Its chronic, but not in intensity. A bit of a roller coaster but I dread the mornings. Absolutely dread having to take those first steps... its horrible, and when I tell people, they just kind of say, "whatever... everybody ages," but I know something is seriously wrong.
Since my surgery, like you, Im on clarinex-D 24 hour dosage, with lunesta for sleep and celebrex for pain. Pre-surgery I was on nothing and worked out pretty regularly, sometimes 2x a day, weights and cardio split.
Now, I ache and hobble around....
I think instead of going into a long winded story of what I think is going on with me, I'm just going to start telling people I have heavy metal poisoning. When people hear the word poison, they tend to take you more seriously.
Cut and pasted from a heavy metal toxicity website:
As an example of the scope of a heavy metal's toxicity, lead can affect the nervous system, gastrointestinal system, cardiovascular system, blood production, kidneys, and reproductive system.
Symptoms of heavy metal toxicity include mental confusion, pain in muscles and joints, headaches, short-term memory loss, gastrointestinal upsets, food intolerances/allergies, vision problems, chronic fatigue, and others. The symptoms are so vague that it is difficult to diagnose based on symptoms alone.
Thanks for letting me vent.
As if sleep apnea isn't bad enough....Your surgery for it is the worst thing that has ever happened to you! I have a strong jawline and have never been obese. My neck is actually quite thin. An oral surgeon I consulted with regarding the removal of my implant tells me people with apnea have an airway much narrower than the normal population. Looking back, I think I have suffered from apnea for years. In college, when I was in the habit of running (jogging, really) an hour a day, I would often wake up with my heart beating fast. In my 30s I would wake up in a sweat alot of the time. I just thought I was dreaming. After I turned 40 sleep became impossible as I would wake up with my heart racing and in a sweat and then not be able to go back to sleep after sleeping maybe 1-2 hrs. I assumed it was insomnia until a dentist insisted I get a sleep study before he would help me with my tmj problems. I doubted the necessity of a study, as I do not fit the "profile". Sure enough, my apnea index was severe!
I am forturnate never to have been advised to have surgery to fix my problems, as they tell me the success rate is quite low for curing apea this way. I am sorry for you that you were mislead.
I am going to get this festering piece of hardware out of my skull, and hopefully sooner rather than later. I cannot survivie this torture and feeling ill much longer. What exactly do you have in your jaw? Plates to extend the mandible? Maybe you will have to go to a progressive teaching center for dentistry.
I am not a doc basher, either. I just desire to stay away from them should I be fortunate enough to recover from this!!
Oh--I had an eye exam today, and the optometrist said he sees no sign of pathology as would usually be present with ms. He told me he had all of the metal fillings and work removed from his mouth years ago. He told me via some kind of testing that he had high mercury levels from eating lots of tuna. He said chelation therapy is effective in reducing metals in the body, but does not recommend the type one would get with an IV. He recommended something called Cardio Clear EDTA sodium that I think he purchases on line from a company called Health Freedom Nutrition. I am going to try it after I get this piece of crap removed from my body. I don't want to take anything that would thin the blood before surgery.
I will let you know what the Melisa test reveals when I get the results. It will be good for you to see if I get better after I get my implant removed, as your implant work sounds like more of a challenge to remove.
Hang in there and thanks for the feedback.
I am forturnate never to have been advised to have surgery to fix my problems, as they tell me the success rate is quite low for curing apea this way. I am sorry for you that you were mislead.
I am going to get this festering piece of hardware out of my skull, and hopefully sooner rather than later. I cannot survivie this torture and feeling ill much longer. What exactly do you have in your jaw? Plates to extend the mandible? Maybe you will have to go to a progressive teaching center for dentistry.
I am not a doc basher, either. I just desire to stay away from them should I be fortunate enough to recover from this!!
Oh--I had an eye exam today, and the optometrist said he sees no sign of pathology as would usually be present with ms. He told me he had all of the metal fillings and work removed from his mouth years ago. He told me via some kind of testing that he had high mercury levels from eating lots of tuna. He said chelation therapy is effective in reducing metals in the body, but does not recommend the type one would get with an IV. He recommended something called Cardio Clear EDTA sodium that I think he purchases on line from a company called Health Freedom Nutrition. I am going to try it after I get this piece of crap removed from my body. I don't want to take anything that would thin the blood before surgery.
I will let you know what the Melisa test reveals when I get the results. It will be good for you to see if I get better after I get my implant removed, as your implant work sounds like more of a challenge to remove.
Hang in there and thanks for the feedback.
I have been following your story along with brokenjaw.
Very interesting since I too am experiencing some leg and joint pain
since my dental implant.
Sept. 21, 2009.
I have done research and have found a good surgeon, who has a lot
of experience removing these implants.
Although mine has adhered to the bones nicely. I started getting
a joint pain in my elbows that I asked the dentist about right away.
It has spread to my shoulders and wrists.
I sent my blood to Melissa and am very anxious to hear what your
results are.
I am in contact with a woman in Chicago who had an implant 2 years
ago and suffered extreme joint pain and trips to the e.r.
She finally had her impant removed and I am awaiting news on how
she is feeling.
Apparently, we are all out there. Many dentists/doctors just don't want
to admit that we exist.
My implant was put in perfectly and the dentist did a great job. But
because I am not showing any of the typicel signs, they feel I had a
successful implant.
Very grateful and I have found a qualified very experienced surgeon who
is able to remove this metal, once I research it and know that is the direction
I want to go.
I live in the Philadephia, Pennsylvania area and can recommend him, if
you every need another opinion. I do not know where you are located.
Please keep me posted, and I will do the same for you.
Very interesting since I too am experiencing some leg and joint pain
since my dental implant.
Sept. 21, 2009.
I have done research and have found a good surgeon, who has a lot
of experience removing these implants.
Although mine has adhered to the bones nicely. I started getting
a joint pain in my elbows that I asked the dentist about right away.
It has spread to my shoulders and wrists.
I sent my blood to Melissa and am very anxious to hear what your
results are.
I am in contact with a woman in Chicago who had an implant 2 years
ago and suffered extreme joint pain and trips to the e.r.
She finally had her impant removed and I am awaiting news on how
she is feeling.
Apparently, we are all out there. Many dentists/doctors just don't want
to admit that we exist.
My implant was put in perfectly and the dentist did a great job. But
because I am not showing any of the typicel signs, they feel I had a
successful implant.
Very grateful and I have found a qualified very experienced surgeon who
is able to remove this metal, once I research it and know that is the direction
I want to go.
I live in the Philadephia, Pennsylvania area and can recommend him, if
you every need another opinion. I do not know where you are located.
Please keep me posted, and I will do the same for you.
Hi Serbin,
Im near Chicago... is it possible to get the name of the doctor who removed the implants of the woman you are in contact with? I have found the name of the maxfax who seems to have a stellar reputation in Chicago, but I am also prepared that he will, like other docs, say "Its not the implant causing your problems..." so having a back up plan will be good.
Thanks
Im near Chicago... is it possible to get the name of the doctor who removed the implants of the woman you are in contact with? I have found the name of the maxfax who seems to have a stellar reputation in Chicago, but I am also prepared that he will, like other docs, say "Its not the implant causing your problems..." so having a back up plan will be good.
Thanks
Oh, yes. I have a "successful" implant also. Only I feel horrible!
I just sent a note to brokenjaw about another website I found--www.orthopedicanalysis.com. There are many references to the validity of the lymphocyte transformation testing for metal sensitivity. If I would have known about it perhaps I would not have had to send my blood to Switzerland.
It is strange after many months of feeling ill and much medical testing that not: my general dentist, the periodontist (who placed the implant), primary care doc, 2 nurse practitioners, 2 neurologists, 2 oral surgeons, allergist, or rheumatologist would tell me about this testing. The allergist did say he was not "impressed" with the reliability of lymphocyte transformation testing. I am not impressed with spending so much time and money and still feeling ill with no answers. I am so incapacitated physically that I have no choice other than to get the implant removed. I also have constant pain in the area of the implant, and a feverish feeling that is relieved by antibiotics.
I live in Northern Nevada and one of the oral surgeons I consulted with did not want to touch the implant as it is fully integrated with the bone. The other, who has practiced for 30+ years said he has removed "a few" osseointegrated implants during his 30 years. When asked the reason for such removals, he stated "psychological reasons". I bet. Tomorrow I will consult with the periodontist who installed the implant and ask if he can do as good a job taking the implant out as putting it in. Can you ask your surgeon how I would go about finding the most experienced person at removing implants on the West Coast?
I may just go with the perio-guy, as he is does the most implant surgery in the area.
Thanks
I just sent a note to brokenjaw about another website I found--www.orthopedicanalysis.com. There are many references to the validity of the lymphocyte transformation testing for metal sensitivity. If I would have known about it perhaps I would not have had to send my blood to Switzerland.
It is strange after many months of feeling ill and much medical testing that not: my general dentist, the periodontist (who placed the implant), primary care doc, 2 nurse practitioners, 2 neurologists, 2 oral surgeons, allergist, or rheumatologist would tell me about this testing. The allergist did say he was not "impressed" with the reliability of lymphocyte transformation testing. I am not impressed with spending so much time and money and still feeling ill with no answers. I am so incapacitated physically that I have no choice other than to get the implant removed. I also have constant pain in the area of the implant, and a feverish feeling that is relieved by antibiotics.
I live in Northern Nevada and one of the oral surgeons I consulted with did not want to touch the implant as it is fully integrated with the bone. The other, who has practiced for 30+ years said he has removed "a few" osseointegrated implants during his 30 years. When asked the reason for such removals, he stated "psychological reasons". I bet. Tomorrow I will consult with the periodontist who installed the implant and ask if he can do as good a job taking the implant out as putting it in. Can you ask your surgeon how I would go about finding the most experienced person at removing implants on the West Coast?
I may just go with the perio-guy, as he is does the most implant surgery in the area.
Thanks
Yes, I have plates to extend the jaw, but they are very small... but still, more hardware than I want. I believe each plate has 2 screws, so its a total of 4 plates and 8 screws.
Hahaha... I shouldnt be laughing, but again, another lie from my doc. He told he had phenomenal success with this surgery, but as I said, I met 2 of his other patients, and they both were having complete revisions with other doctors. I guess in a way he was right... phenomenal success at taking their money and screwing people over.
As far as the removal for me, yes, I do believe its going to be a major ordeal... not as bad as the surgery as there wont be any bone cutting, so I will be able to eat within about a week, but still, pretty intense. I've read of people getting theirs out on the yahoo board, but there are so many postings there, its hard to wade through whats applicable to the information I'm looking for. I should start researching to see if people are having symptomatic problems that we are speaking of. To be honest, the majority of postings are from people about to go through it, so its hard to follow through and I lost interest after my surgery, but maybe I can find some more info there.
I'll post my findings if I should come across any helpful information.
I've been told I should try chelation as well. My sister, who has fibromyalgia, recommended malic acid and magnesium/calcium. I swear it helps control inflammation when I have severe flares, but as far as Im concerned, the more I read, and since chatting with you, and seeing others come on board, the more Im convinced we are suffering from "heavy" metal poisoning. I put the heavy in quotes because I believe Ti is not considered a heavy metal, but to my understanding, these so called Ti implants are not pure Ti like the dental professionals want you to believe.
I'd be incredibly curious to find out who actually manufactures and sells these implants.
Hahaha... I shouldnt be laughing, but again, another lie from my doc. He told he had phenomenal success with this surgery, but as I said, I met 2 of his other patients, and they both were having complete revisions with other doctors. I guess in a way he was right... phenomenal success at taking their money and screwing people over.
As far as the removal for me, yes, I do believe its going to be a major ordeal... not as bad as the surgery as there wont be any bone cutting, so I will be able to eat within about a week, but still, pretty intense. I've read of people getting theirs out on the yahoo board, but there are so many postings there, its hard to wade through whats applicable to the information I'm looking for. I should start researching to see if people are having symptomatic problems that we are speaking of. To be honest, the majority of postings are from people about to go through it, so its hard to follow through and I lost interest after my surgery, but maybe I can find some more info there.
I'll post my findings if I should come across any helpful information.
I've been told I should try chelation as well. My sister, who has fibromyalgia, recommended malic acid and magnesium/calcium. I swear it helps control inflammation when I have severe flares, but as far as Im concerned, the more I read, and since chatting with you, and seeing others come on board, the more Im convinced we are suffering from "heavy" metal poisoning. I put the heavy in quotes because I believe Ti is not considered a heavy metal, but to my understanding, these so called Ti implants are not pure Ti like the dental professionals want you to believe.
I'd be incredibly curious to find out who actually manufactures and sells these implants.
ok, I'll try to make this quick, as when I tell people this, they tend to look at me both with disbelief and a bit of horror.
I work as an audio tech, and while I kind of fell into the job, I know most of my peers got into it to do music and TV and what not.... but unless you are a top engineer, what pays the bills is corporate work, and of any segment, by far and wide, the deepest pockets are pharmaceuticals.
If you dont know what an "ad board" is, its an advisory board that is set up by pharma companies that are pushing their drugs through the FDA. These meetings are made up of researchers, marketing people and doctors who are testing the drugs before their release. Thats where I come in. By law, these meetings have to be electronically documented. Its big money... no... its HUGE money.... no other industry has the money that pharma does.
So, in the past few years, I've sat, like a fly on the wall, recording hundreds of "ad boards." 90% of the time, after I set the mics and the recorders, I zone out. The medical vernacular is over my head, but I have enough life experience to know when the researchers and the marketers arent "thrilled" with what the doctors are reporting... know what I mean??? So if 20 doctors are reporting that drug XYZ is causing tumors or illness or premature death, you can see how the drug reps start to fidget and get nervous. I've always wondered how much of this information gets "cherry" picked at the end of the day and how much gets buried. I mean, they may have invested a tens of millions of dollars and now they are getting feedback that its a failure... that doesnt sit well with the corporations...
So, I have a friend who is dating a surgeon. I asked him is he ever did an ad board and he said no, he's been asked, but he has no interest. So I would think most doctors and surgeons dont see how this side of the industry works. Instead, they are probably trained in school to read reports and believe, altruistically, about the info they see... but if they ever sat in on an ad board, they may think differently about the accuracy of what drug reps are selling and what the glossy brochure is reporting...
*****, right?
Indeed it does.... people forget Im a fly on the wall, and I'm pretty shocked at what comes out some of these peoples mouths... you can start to see who, in the medical field is in it because they want to help people, who is in it for the money, and who is burnt out and should probably hang up their stethoscope. I actually heard one neurosurgeon who worked in a city in a rural area say, "IF some dumb ******* hillbilly gets kicked in the head by a mule, I dont feel like getting up at 3 in the morning to save his sorry ***..."
Yes, its true. Word for word, its true... I'll never for get that line.
Thats the type of people who we are trusting with our health.
But if it werent people like my internist or ENT who are amazing and skilled and decent people, I would have lost complete faith in the medical industry after sitting in these meetings.
So, all that being said, I am very curious who is making these implants, if they had to get FDA approval and what their findings were. By law, they have to have documentation of the testing done... what made it into those final reports and what was, lets say, overlooked...?
I work as an audio tech, and while I kind of fell into the job, I know most of my peers got into it to do music and TV and what not.... but unless you are a top engineer, what pays the bills is corporate work, and of any segment, by far and wide, the deepest pockets are pharmaceuticals.
If you dont know what an "ad board" is, its an advisory board that is set up by pharma companies that are pushing their drugs through the FDA. These meetings are made up of researchers, marketing people and doctors who are testing the drugs before their release. Thats where I come in. By law, these meetings have to be electronically documented. Its big money... no... its HUGE money.... no other industry has the money that pharma does.
So, in the past few years, I've sat, like a fly on the wall, recording hundreds of "ad boards." 90% of the time, after I set the mics and the recorders, I zone out. The medical vernacular is over my head, but I have enough life experience to know when the researchers and the marketers arent "thrilled" with what the doctors are reporting... know what I mean??? So if 20 doctors are reporting that drug XYZ is causing tumors or illness or premature death, you can see how the drug reps start to fidget and get nervous. I've always wondered how much of this information gets "cherry" picked at the end of the day and how much gets buried. I mean, they may have invested a tens of millions of dollars and now they are getting feedback that its a failure... that doesnt sit well with the corporations...
So, I have a friend who is dating a surgeon. I asked him is he ever did an ad board and he said no, he's been asked, but he has no interest. So I would think most doctors and surgeons dont see how this side of the industry works. Instead, they are probably trained in school to read reports and believe, altruistically, about the info they see... but if they ever sat in on an ad board, they may think differently about the accuracy of what drug reps are selling and what the glossy brochure is reporting...
*****, right?
Indeed it does.... people forget Im a fly on the wall, and I'm pretty shocked at what comes out some of these peoples mouths... you can start to see who, in the medical field is in it because they want to help people, who is in it for the money, and who is burnt out and should probably hang up their stethoscope. I actually heard one neurosurgeon who worked in a city in a rural area say, "IF some dumb ******* hillbilly gets kicked in the head by a mule, I dont feel like getting up at 3 in the morning to save his sorry ***..."
Yes, its true. Word for word, its true... I'll never for get that line.
Thats the type of people who we are trusting with our health.
But if it werent people like my internist or ENT who are amazing and skilled and decent people, I would have lost complete faith in the medical industry after sitting in these meetings.
So, all that being said, I am very curious who is making these implants, if they had to get FDA approval and what their findings were. By law, they have to have documentation of the testing done... what made it into those final reports and what was, lets say, overlooked...?
Hi. I did receive the Melisa test results and had a weak positive for Calcium Titanate I and II and Titanium Dioxide I and II. The the periodontist I saw today said that the titanium tested for has nothing to do with the titanium in a dental implant. Basically he thinks the test is bogus. I have an email in to Melisa asking why the 3 titanium substances I was tested for have nothing to do with a dental implant?
He also thinks there is no way any of my physical symptoms are related to the implant, and that the pain and irritation I feel (the tissue looks fine) is referred from somewhere else--another tooth, or my neck, etc.. At this point he might think the pain is from my mind, but nonetheless has agreed to remove the implant if it will make me "happy". So tomorrow @ 8:00a.m. I am going in to have this implant removed. I have the full support of my family and friends, so I am thankful for that.
If there is any lesson to be learned from this (don't we all ask why?), it would be that sometimes we need to do what we know is right, even if the "experts" are saying otherwise. I hope my experience will be helpful to brokenjaw and the others reading these comments.
Oh--I think my implant was manufactured by a 3i in Florida. I do believe that the implants are FDA approved, but then so are the silcone breast implants that have caused trouble for so many women. Money can buy almost anything these days. We really need to look out for ourselves, as the pharmaceutical industry has way too much influence in how medicine is practiced these days.
Hopefully I can make a steady recovery and will have good news to report to you all.:)
He also thinks there is no way any of my physical symptoms are related to the implant, and that the pain and irritation I feel (the tissue looks fine) is referred from somewhere else--another tooth, or my neck, etc.. At this point he might think the pain is from my mind, but nonetheless has agreed to remove the implant if it will make me "happy". So tomorrow @ 8:00a.m. I am going in to have this implant removed. I have the full support of my family and friends, so I am thankful for that.
If there is any lesson to be learned from this (don't we all ask why?), it would be that sometimes we need to do what we know is right, even if the "experts" are saying otherwise. I hope my experience will be helpful to brokenjaw and the others reading these comments.
Oh--I think my implant was manufactured by a 3i in Florida. I do believe that the implants are FDA approved, but then so are the silcone breast implants that have caused trouble for so many women. Money can buy almost anything these days. We really need to look out for ourselves, as the pharmaceutical industry has way too much influence in how medicine is practiced these days.
Hopefully I can make a steady recovery and will have good news to report to you all.:)
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