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health problems and life expectancy
on 5/5 she was panting all day, she had abdomen that looked distended and firm. we brought her to the vet. She did x-ray and told us that her abdomen so distended that it twist and need surgery immediately, also found that she had murmur. We brought her to the ER they told us that her abdomen was not twisted she did not need surgery. SHe was stabilized and go home that night. I read the discharge instructions, and found that also had bladder stones and enlarge liver, which nobody told us.2 days later, she panting again.
1. WHat is the signs of heart failure on dogs, is the panting is the signs? She did not have any edema, just her abdomen is still distended and firm
2. SHe panting mostly at night and in the morning, when she walk around at home, it seems lie it help to stop momentarily with her panting. Why?
3. After reading that she had bladder stones, I monitor her urination, she did not urinate a lot.it seems that she urinate less that what her intake is.
4. her back legs seems like X shape recently. Before it did not shape like this, it was normal, is the heart problem might cause this? She walks fine though
5. Her enlarged liver (which the ER dont even talk about this too), how this will affect her? Her bowel is golden pasty, is it normal? I think before is dark brown.
6. My boyfriend wanted to put her down because after the ER visit she seems like still panting and in pain, nobody prescribe meds. He also does not want any surgery for our dog because she is old. It breaks my heart if she will be put to death because I love my dog so much, if I go back to the vet and asked for medication, with her enlarged heart, bladder stones, panting recently, and diagnosis of early heart failure few days ago, what is her prognosis, with her age of 14 years.
Please help me with the information before my boyfriend bring her to the vet and put her down.
Thank you so much
1. WHat is the signs of heart failure on dogs, is the panting is the signs? She did not have any edema, just her abdomen is still distended and firm
2. SHe panting mostly at night and in the morning, when she walk around at home, it seems lie it help to stop momentarily with her panting. Why?
3. After reading that she had bladder stones, I monitor her urination, she did not urinate a lot.it seems that she urinate less that what her intake is.
4. her back legs seems like X shape recently. Before it did not shape like this, it was normal, is the heart problem might cause this? She walks fine though
5. Her enlarged liver (which the ER dont even talk about this too), how this will affect her? Her bowel is golden pasty, is it normal? I think before is dark brown.
6. My boyfriend wanted to put her down because after the ER visit she seems like still panting and in pain, nobody prescribe meds. He also does not want any surgery for our dog because she is old. It breaks my heart if she will be put to death because I love my dog so much, if I go back to the vet and asked for medication, with her enlarged heart, bladder stones, panting recently, and diagnosis of early heart failure few days ago, what is her prognosis, with her age of 14 years.
Please help me with the information before my boyfriend bring her to the vet and put her down.
Thank you so much
Thank you so much for your answers. We brought her to a different vet (the third time within a week), and this time, I was prepared with all the concerns about her. The third vet explain what she saw on the x-ray, gave her medication for heart (enalapril), gave her medication for pain (she said that the stones are sharp, so it must be really painful for her, also requests us to monitor if she has bleeding in the urine as the result of the sharp stones), plus she also has arthritis which made our dog weak. Thank you so much for the answers, as I want to improve her quality of life and make sure she live comfortably. She looks better, still panting but less than before. Again, thank you so much for answering my questions. I really appreciate it.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dear chocopink,
Your post is troubling for this reason: You said ""nobody told me" about various aspects of your pet's condition and the rationale for those opinions. The primary job of a good veterinarian is to communicate to an owner what the diagnosis and treatment plan should be. Without an owners cooperation nothing good can occur for a pet, thus good clear and complete communication is key to providing good pet care.
That said, it is not unheard of that a veterinarian with one set of skills will offer a different approach to a case and perhaps overinterpret or misdiagnose based on xray images. Neither is it rare that an inexperienced veterinarian may jump to a conclusion thqat later proves to be incorrect. No malice was intended but a blind alley may have had to be backed out of. Certainly avoiding an exploratory surgery is good when possible and Im glad you were able to do so in this case. Perhaps the first veterinarian saw an air filled stomach and mistook it for a bloated stomach. Panting dogs have "aerophagia" where they swallow a lot of air that eventually is belched, but it can remotely look like a bloat and cause abdominal distension. That may be what occurred here.
Panting in and of itself is nonspecific. It may be normal (hot or anxious dog). It may mean pain or any illness interfering with oxygen delivery to tissues. Tests help sort all that out.
If xrays or ultrasound show bladder stones Im sure they are there, however, they may be an incidental finding, in other words not clinically significant and not related to the signs you have seen, or they may. Bladder stones can cause straining, discomfort, blood in urine and some pain!
Liver enlargement may be due to liver diseases or to back-pressure from a failing right heart. Since the dog has a significant murmer, an echocardiogram perfomed by a board certified internist or cardiologist is indicated.
Now to your specific questions:
1. What is the signs of heart failure in dogs? Is the panting a sign?
Heart failure is a generic term that describes the end stages of any heart condition.
In some cases weakness, coughing and fluid in the lungs may occur (left side heart failure), in other cases heart murmers and liver swelling can occur, and abdominal fluid may accumulate.The details and other signs are well beyond the scope of this forum. See a doctor and have an echocardiogram done.
2. Panting is nonspecific.
3. The bladder stones may be silent.
4. I dont know what X shape means.
5. Enlarged liver is not a diagnosis. Have her abdomen re-ultrasounded. the liver may be secondary to heart disease. Diarrhea is abnormal and should also be worked up. It may be secondary to liver disease, GI disease or just to being sick from anything.
6. Medication is given for a diagnosed problem. Without a diagnosis there can be no rational treatment. Also "old age" is not a diagnosis, some dogs live to 20. Work up each problem and treat for the treatable. If surgery is indicated then it is. You have to ask, do you want a dog, or this dog? If this dog then you have to pursue her problems to a satisfactory resolution.
It is your general practice veterinarian's job to help you prioritize your old dogs problems
and address what has to be addressed. Find someone who can do that and who will work with a specialist when required to provide the best outcome for your dog.
If you were to treat her heart disease and she lived comfortably for 18 months or 2 years, then perhaps 2 or 3 thousand dollars of medical care during that time would be a good investment. If on the other hand she will have a poor quality of life for just 2 or 3 months, then pursuit of a diagnosis and definitive treatment might not be the best for your family or for your dog. You have to take it one step at a time, in stepwise fashion.
Perhaps you need a new general practice veterinarian to help guide you. Find someone with a touch of gray and a thorough approach. Good luck!
Sincerely,
Dr G
Your post is troubling for this reason: You said ""nobody told me" about various aspects of your pet's condition and the rationale for those opinions. The primary job of a good veterinarian is to communicate to an owner what the diagnosis and treatment plan should be. Without an owners cooperation nothing good can occur for a pet, thus good clear and complete communication is key to providing good pet care.
That said, it is not unheard of that a veterinarian with one set of skills will offer a different approach to a case and perhaps overinterpret or misdiagnose based on xray images. Neither is it rare that an inexperienced veterinarian may jump to a conclusion thqat later proves to be incorrect. No malice was intended but a blind alley may have had to be backed out of. Certainly avoiding an exploratory surgery is good when possible and Im glad you were able to do so in this case. Perhaps the first veterinarian saw an air filled stomach and mistook it for a bloated stomach. Panting dogs have "aerophagia" where they swallow a lot of air that eventually is belched, but it can remotely look like a bloat and cause abdominal distension. That may be what occurred here.
Panting in and of itself is nonspecific. It may be normal (hot or anxious dog). It may mean pain or any illness interfering with oxygen delivery to tissues. Tests help sort all that out.
If xrays or ultrasound show bladder stones Im sure they are there, however, they may be an incidental finding, in other words not clinically significant and not related to the signs you have seen, or they may. Bladder stones can cause straining, discomfort, blood in urine and some pain!
Liver enlargement may be due to liver diseases or to back-pressure from a failing right heart. Since the dog has a significant murmer, an echocardiogram perfomed by a board certified internist or cardiologist is indicated.
Now to your specific questions:
1. What is the signs of heart failure in dogs? Is the panting a sign?
Heart failure is a generic term that describes the end stages of any heart condition.
In some cases weakness, coughing and fluid in the lungs may occur (left side heart failure), in other cases heart murmers and liver swelling can occur, and abdominal fluid may accumulate.The details and other signs are well beyond the scope of this forum. See a doctor and have an echocardiogram done.
2. Panting is nonspecific.
3. The bladder stones may be silent.
4. I dont know what X shape means.
5. Enlarged liver is not a diagnosis. Have her abdomen re-ultrasounded. the liver may be secondary to heart disease. Diarrhea is abnormal and should also be worked up. It may be secondary to liver disease, GI disease or just to being sick from anything.
6. Medication is given for a diagnosed problem. Without a diagnosis there can be no rational treatment. Also "old age" is not a diagnosis, some dogs live to 20. Work up each problem and treat for the treatable. If surgery is indicated then it is. You have to ask, do you want a dog, or this dog? If this dog then you have to pursue her problems to a satisfactory resolution.
It is your general practice veterinarian's job to help you prioritize your old dogs problems
and address what has to be addressed. Find someone who can do that and who will work with a specialist when required to provide the best outcome for your dog.
If you were to treat her heart disease and she lived comfortably for 18 months or 2 years, then perhaps 2 or 3 thousand dollars of medical care during that time would be a good investment. If on the other hand she will have a poor quality of life for just 2 or 3 months, then pursuit of a diagnosis and definitive treatment might not be the best for your family or for your dog. You have to take it one step at a time, in stepwise fashion.
Perhaps you need a new general practice veterinarian to help guide you. Find someone with a touch of gray and a thorough approach. Good luck!
Sincerely,
Dr G
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