Toilet Training

[iamsympatico]

We have reached the Third Stage for some time now but unable to get passed this. He will willing go to the bathroom on schedule and sit down for his time but, he will not release in the toilet and will hold on for many hours to the point where it is just too long. I have not been able to find any one who can help us. I have tried absolutely everything from an incentive, distraction and  stress reducing angle. We have also tried  to take things away to create incentive no luck any additional advise. My fear is  to be in the same place next year.


This discussion is related to Refuses to poop on the toilet.

[iamsympatico]

We had the same anxieties about death this past year. It started with in February with my Grandfather as my Grandmother has a mass and dinner on the anniversary of his death every year (Catholic - Italian). He was very scared. Why do people die, when are you going to die, how old will I live too. What can we do to never die. He gets extremely upset. We did the same conversation about heaven, however I did make it work as well as you. He know will not watch any space shows as heaven is in space or beyond space. Unfortunately it is really bad as if my husband puts anything on now to do with space he really melts down. It is so hard to have such extreme fears.
It is tought for me to comprehend as well because he really is so smart when it comes to bigger things but the little things are extremely tough.

[Sally44]

I think you are doing everything you can be doing.
I agree with you that it is not appropriate to drug a child so that they can remain in a class or school.  If that environment cannot be adapted to meet his needs then you need to look elsewhere.  Your son sounds like he is doing okay eventhough he is on the spectrum.  My son is the same.  He just isn't severe enough to even consider medication.  I know for some parents it is the only option to survive, but I still feel for them because there is no research on the long term effects these drugs will have on their mind and development.
I don't know what country you are posting from, but you could try contacting the National Autistic Society as they have educational helplines.  I would also recommend getting advice from a legal advocate that specialises in special educational law.  You might be surprised at what the State should be providing and what you will have access to if they don't.  Also parent support groups are full of people who will have all kinds of information that you will find useful.  It also gives your son a chance to socialise with other children similar to himself.
I am about to go to an Educational Tribunal myself because the local authority will not put on my son's Statement (similar to IEP in USA I think?), that he should have an enhanced resource in a mainstream school (this basically means extra help/support/services from staff with experience and expertise in autism.  Everyone who has observed/assessed him has said that he needs an enhanced resource, even the states own employees (ie. Educational Psychologist and Autism Advisory Teacher).  This is because they don't have any places left.  But according to law that is not my problem that is the States.  If they don't have any places available I am legally entitled to start looking at Private Schools and the State will have to fund their fees.  Anyway, I shall see what the outcome will be.  There is a world famous Private school near us that specialises in High Functioning Autistic and Aspergers and Speech and Communication Problems.  If I get him in there I will be doing cartwheels for a week.  So find out what your rights are!
It made me smile, you talking about how black and white their thinking can be.  It is very hard to build in any flexibility.  It is a 'one size fits all' solution to all problems.  Regarding anxieties, my son was recently concerned about dying (yes! at 7.5 years old).  The only solution I could come up with that he found acceptable was to tell him that it was true that everybody grows old and dies, but that our spirits live on forever.  Then we had to discuss about how my spirit was going to find his when he died.  This went into a very long and indepth discussion.  However he has told me that he is not afraid to die now.
Don't worry about obsessions.  He will have them regardless of what you say or do.  Don't stop him having access to things that interest him, just use them to teach him what you want him to know.

[enzymelover]

My son had trouble with toilet training in a similar way. He would sit on the toilet for an hour and not be able to "go". This problem worsened during the school year, both because he did not like to use the school bathrooms, and because if he had to go at an "inappropriate" time, the teachers would not allow it, insisting that the 20 minute recess and the 40 minute lunch break were adequate opportunities. This contributed to a severe constipation problem. (I thought it was funny that they told him to use the bathroom before he sat down to eat, since the bathroom is less crowded at that time. Don't they know how peristaltis works)?
Anyway, it took a few years to discover my son had an intestinal motility problem caused by hypothyroidism and food intolerances. It was no wonder that he couldn't "go" on the toilet, at the "appropriate" time. His body simply wasn't functioning normally.

I would suggest, if your son is really cooperating as best he can and still not getting results, you check out the possibility of a digestive function problem with a good registered nutritionist, and also a possible thyroid imbalance. I never would have dreamed this was my son's problem with this issue, but it was. Luckily, he finally got the help he needed.

Good luck

P.S.  Never dismiss the idea of a nutritional consultation with ANY problem your son may be having. The nutritionist can do IgG antibody, gastrointestinal function, amino and organic acids tests and more, and discover problems that can be corrected before they escalate to neurological and functional problems. My son's nutritionist has done a fantastic job treating his health problems.

[iamsympatico]

Thank you for the kind note. We have a copy of the story 'Everybodies Poops, by Taro Gomi' which he is not so crazy about at the moment. Also of the many video we originally borrowed from the library, then purchased is, 'I can go potty', which has a music video of just what you were saying on big kids - great video which he likes and gets his attention. He is somewhat obsessed with the pipping structure of the house, which is probably what created the whole problem in the first place as he was very aware of how large the main drain was in the basement. We have talked about how the water get recycled back into the lake as he is extremely concerned about water conservation and that we are going to run out of water in 20 years (I know it is really werd - in a way kind of funny but not so much we he has such overwhelming anxieties for such a young boy that really impedes him. I really need to research more information of the recycling process of the water, as I know this interest him however I am not sure if this would do more harm than good.
Unfortunately from the system we have not had much success I am afraid to say... Our pediatrician did give us a letter for the school. However the first things that came out of our priciples month was that she (not even having met my child by the way) was that there are many good drugs and that we may consider them as our Son may be too overwhelmed with sensory issues. I do not believe in giving a child drugs to push them  through school is the right solution! I have since put him in a small private school and am hoping for the best. He does not go to the washroom during school which is good and bad as I do not think it is heathy for him as school is long. He is a very bright child when it comes to many things so they off set some of his challenges. I am not sure if it is the right decission, although I have put a lot of effort into making sure he enjoys school as I feel that the best way to learn. We are still on a waiting list for assistance and I called again just a week and a bit ago and we are still up for next spring - summer - yeh!!! Maybe by college we will get some help! I do really enjoy him unfortunately it is the inlaws that make it such a challenge. They have no idea and have made things remarkably stressful for both our familly and our marriage. Unbelievably my sister inlaw has a degree in psycology! A little support wouldn't hurt when you are trying so hard to help your children. I write that only as a note for anyother family that maybe going through the same thing. Very fustrating.
We have enrolled him in verious activies this fall to work on the socializing. It is tough as life is very black and white for him. I trying giving him things to say but I am not always there at school. Today he informed me that he told the children two times to use there indoor voice and he had to speek to his teacher about the situation as they were not listening. The hard thing is that if I tell him he shouldn't tell on his friends he will take it for everything and if I give him only a few exclusions I may miss something. It is almost like programming which was not one of my strengths ...but I guess that is all going to change !
I did copy of social storey from a autistic website and I think I will try to find a book with more topics if there is one that exists.
Thanks again any other thoughts are welcome!

[Sally44]

Have you tried doing a drawing of what happens to the poop when it goes down the toilet.  Make it into a fun cartoon type drawing.  Sometimes it helps if they understand the 'process' of what is happening.  Tell the story from it going into the toilet to it going into the sea.  Tell him that is what happens with everybodys poop, that we all do it in the toilet and it all goes through the pipe system and the cleaning system and when it is all clean it goes into the sea.  Alot of autistic children like water and pipes.  You could even set up a pipe demonstration using something to represent the poop in the pipes!
Also start to tell him another picture story of how babies wear nappies and drink milk, but as they grow and get bigger they learn to do new things eg. walk, eat, dress themselves and poop in the toilet.  Again tell him that everyone has to learn to do these things because everyone is born a baby etc etc.
Try not to get too frustrated about it.  Alot of autistic kids wear nappies longer than other kids.  I know it is hard, but sometimes we just have to accept that they aren't going to make the grade yet.  So don't push yourself too hard.  He will learn.  For some unknown reason they tend to plateau regarding learning for some time and then suddenly they make leaps and bounds forwards and then plateau again.
I too have to remember to celebrate the successes, of which there are many, instead of always playing 'catch up' with other kids.
On the positive side of this problem, if he has autism and toiletting problems he should get more individual help in nursery/school and it may even get him access to specialist services or education.  And as resources etc are in such demand, that can only be a good thing for your child.  Don't worry, as soon as he is able to go to the toilet, there will be some other issue to concentrate on eg. socialising.  So we are all in for the long haul and not the sprint finish.  Just enjoy him.