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Learning to Value Yourself. Setting Boundaries. How?
I experience this issue but I can pretty much define my own psychiatric issues and am under treatment of course. But other people I know who are just approaching the recovery process can't and experience the same problem. I know it can't be uncommon. Everyone is aware of people who use other people. But my experience and the experience of some other people I know personally is that they put other people's concerns over their own. When I thought of myself, it is part of the depressive aspect of bipolar I experience now. I lose the sense of self defined happinness and through helping others I gain it. But I'd rather also enjoy my own life. My disability is complex. But other people I know with standard clinical depression or bipolar dedicate their lives to others and let people take advantage (in an emotional sense) and don't set boundaries. Something is lacking in their lives that comes from their depression and its good to reach out to others. But they do it at their own expense, something I've never done. Has anyone experienced this? Or known people who had this problem? What is the best way out of this? You can't say that you are doing something "wrong" as you are helping others but in the long run you know its not good for your own recovery as it will burn you out and it will set back goals that could help you as well as others.
I understand what you mean by no self-esteem. As far as the bipolar part I don't get that overconfident, conquer the world type mania either. It comes out more in the form of irritability, anxiety and insomnia. I was previously diagnosed as having depression and anxiety but the meds given weren't working for me until I was diagnosed as bipolar and prescribed lamictal.
I'm not even sure I am bipolar, I have been diagnosed differently over the last 30 years. I never really feel like I can conquer the world like someone would be in a stage of mania. I have given up on professional help altogether, because I feel like I just get over-medicated and I'm unable to feel anything at all. I also struggle with addiction. I feel as though I'm taken advantage of all of the time, I might as well have "DOORMAT" tattooed on my forehead. What it boils down to with me is I have absolutely NO self-esteem. Even though I know that, I can't seem to pick myself up and move on...sad, but true.
Sometimes I am just wondering, seem like alot of us with Bp have this "boundaries" problem. Well, it this one of the reason why at times I will fall back into my depressive cycle when there are no boundaries. I think for my whole 10 years of therapy, I still did not master the skill. Not sure whether I don't know how to master or I don't dare to master. Most likely is don't dare. Actually I always wanted to ask people...how do you all define happiness? I have been asking myself this question but can't answer.
* Thanks edmfender and Narnia41 for reply to the post, actually really glad that I happened to find this forum, when i read through some of the post..I feel that there are actually people that feel like I do...I am not alone...not that I am glad that you all have bp too...just that someone understand how I feel...at times I feel that sharing all these thoughts with my friends is like talking to them in a language that they don't understand...all they tell me is..You are thinking too much...don't think so much...from then on I stopped telling them my problem and be back the happy gal that they know....how sad...
* Thanks edmfender and Narnia41 for reply to the post, actually really glad that I happened to find this forum, when i read through some of the post..I feel that there are actually people that feel like I do...I am not alone...not that I am glad that you all have bp too...just that someone understand how I feel...at times I feel that sharing all these thoughts with my friends is like talking to them in a language that they don't understand...all they tell me is..You are thinking too much...don't think so much...from then on I stopped telling them my problem and be back the happy gal that they know....how sad...
I too seem to have problems setting bounderies, mainly with my mom. Since my husband and I are both on disability, my mom and dad help us out with money sometimes and we are buying a car from them for $50 a month. This makes me feel that I always need to say yes when asked to do something. Mom is bp too, but in denial and not on meds. I have worked on this some with my therapist, but things are going to get a lot harder starting on Saturday. My parents are taking us to Disney World and I hope we are all still talking at the end of the week! I see my therapist in a couple of hours, maybe this will be our topic of the day.
Another thing, (ramble, ramble) sometimes I think of all the people I know who seem to have their boundaries in place....they seem to have their lives sorted and don't succumb to any kind of anxiety or stress. All the more reason for us with Bipolar to start setting boundaries I think?!!
Glad you brought up this subject ILADVOCATE, now I'm off to try and practice what I preach lol
Glad you brought up this subject ILADVOCATE, now I'm off to try and practice what I preach lol
It can be very wearing trying to please people, and put on the 'mask' of being happy all the time. Unfortunately I also had a breakdown in the end before my diagnosis. It is only through alot of therapy that I've learned it's ok to say 'NO'. It didn't ever seem an option to me before, I really felt that the more I did for others the more respect they'd have for me!
I seemed (past tense!) to attract the most needy of friends, and shoulder the burden sometimes of all their problems, the more I gave of myself, the more people wanted to take. The problem was that these friends were draining me of any energy I had, so how on earth could I look after myself? I couldn't. I also have learnt not to trust anyone so easily, I did that too many times and my Psych always told me I trust others too easily and don't see the pitfalls ahead. It's the people like us you see, that seem to break under the pressure because we are givers where others can be takers.
Also I believe that if a friend doesn't accept my different ways of coping now (I spend alot more time alone or with those close to me) then they don't really have my interests at heart if it's a problem to them.
I would still go out of my way for a true friend in their hour of need, I will always have that trait in my personality, I just refuse now to allow people to 'take advantage' of me.
However as I said it's only through Therapy, and Assertion classes that I've learned these new ways of coping. As my therapist used to say 'You can't take care of anyone else unless you take care of yourself first' ...and that is so true!
It can be very liberating learning to value YOURSELF but as I said earlier it doesn't come naturally to me and I'm still learning....but it's the only way for me if I want to protect myself from illness. Sorry for the ramble!!!!
Kind regards to all on here :-)
I seemed (past tense!) to attract the most needy of friends, and shoulder the burden sometimes of all their problems, the more I gave of myself, the more people wanted to take. The problem was that these friends were draining me of any energy I had, so how on earth could I look after myself? I couldn't. I also have learnt not to trust anyone so easily, I did that too many times and my Psych always told me I trust others too easily and don't see the pitfalls ahead. It's the people like us you see, that seem to break under the pressure because we are givers where others can be takers.
Also I believe that if a friend doesn't accept my different ways of coping now (I spend alot more time alone or with those close to me) then they don't really have my interests at heart if it's a problem to them.
I would still go out of my way for a true friend in their hour of need, I will always have that trait in my personality, I just refuse now to allow people to 'take advantage' of me.
However as I said it's only through Therapy, and Assertion classes that I've learned these new ways of coping. As my therapist used to say 'You can't take care of anyone else unless you take care of yourself first' ...and that is so true!
It can be very liberating learning to value YOURSELF but as I said earlier it doesn't come naturally to me and I'm still learning....but it's the only way for me if I want to protect myself from illness. Sorry for the ramble!!!!
Kind regards to all on here :-)
Actually, when reading your post, I was reminded what my psychologist says to me..."who is driving your bus?"...your husband, your mother, your boss? and I remember replying once "I'm trying to drive my own bus but I'm terrified I'm going to cross over the yellow line past the line of oncoming traffic and into the ditch".
How's that for a commentary on "self boundries"? There are times especially during a depressive cycle where I do not feel I have the strength to identify the boundries let alone shore the boundry with a negative response to the requester. Who gave me bus keys knowing I'm in this unstable state? It's easier to roll over or hand someone else the keys. When I'm in a manic/hypomanic phase, it seems like I have my bus keys and am more than willing to take on the whole fleet of buses (until they all collide in the parking lot).
However, really liked Bulldozers 1/2 hour wait suggestion. Worked brillantly the other night. Thanks again.
How's that for a commentary on "self boundries"? There are times especially during a depressive cycle where I do not feel I have the strength to identify the boundries let alone shore the boundry with a negative response to the requester. Who gave me bus keys knowing I'm in this unstable state? It's easier to roll over or hand someone else the keys. When I'm in a manic/hypomanic phase, it seems like I have my bus keys and am more than willing to take on the whole fleet of buses (until they all collide in the parking lot).
However, really liked Bulldozers 1/2 hour wait suggestion. Worked brillantly the other night. Thanks again.
HI I am new here, it is so difficult for me to have boundaries, at times I feel that I am brought to this world to please others, that I have not right to say no or reject others. Actually personally I hate myself for always trying to please others. Alot of times, I dare not say no is because I am afraid that others will get angry with me, so I just do what they want me to do. Do you all feel this way too? I hate it when I have to act happy even when I'm not. I have been doing that for years, maybe that is why I broke down and eventually found out that I have BP. All my psychologists are telling me, you have to be yourself, you have to learn how to say no. It seem so easy for some, but to me I think it is something that I will not be able to do so. Some said that you all have learn how to say no, did people get angry with you that why you suddenly say no to them, did they feel that you have change? I am not sure if I really know how to reject people will I still be the same person that I know? Just wondering?
I think women are brought up to be people-pleasers and care-takers especially in certain cultures/eras.
That's an interesting point edmfender. Perceived gender traits have a lot to answer for.
:-)
I wonder how much gender has to do with the ability to set those boundries? Are women more predisposed to be "people pleasers" and not set appropriate boundries because traditionally that is what they have done? Or that men have been more preceived as valued and have a greater sense of self to set personal boundries and have them sanctioned or approved by those around them.
I envy those of you who have boundaries. I have none. I was stripped of any sort of dignity/personal rights in my childhood and it seems to have overflown into my adult life. I'm working on it though. It's a slow process but it does improve with time and effort.
From a completely personal perspective the mood stabilizers played no part in my "change". I chose to change at a point in my life when I had been seriously taken advantage of and had a breakdown. I did not seek medical help (although I should have done). Mood stabilizers may well control excesses of mood but they cannot control our thought processes or decision making (only in so far as stopping manic decisions, which I never had).
With family members I think a lot of it is down to compromise and making allowances. There are certain family members who are gone from my life and although I'm sad that it ended that way I am not sad that I no longer have the incredible stress associated with them being in my life.
Its good that you have been able to positively help members of your own family and they must have wanted to be helped in order for it to succeed.
It sounds as if you have developed a healthy balance and good boundaries that work for you. I have found that mine work for me, we are all so very different. The important thing is that we do set those boundaries.
With family members I think a lot of it is down to compromise and making allowances. There are certain family members who are gone from my life and although I'm sad that it ended that way I am not sad that I no longer have the incredible stress associated with them being in my life.
Its good that you have been able to positively help members of your own family and they must have wanted to be helped in order for it to succeed.
It sounds as if you have developed a healthy balance and good boundaries that work for you. I have found that mine work for me, we are all so very different. The important thing is that we do set those boundaries.
No and it never happenned that way when I was at a workplace. One thing that is essential is the answering machine and the phone with unlimited messages. If someone left 10 rants, I would delete them but then I'd call them back. If I were with a person and thought they could get difficult or confrontational I'd see them with a supervisor. If they went on for too long when I spoke to them on the phone in a tangential manner I would say someone else was on the other line. I'd help them but set boundaries.
But as for a family member I don't believe in shutting family members out of my life. It would be wrong. But the important thing is for me to make them realize why they would want help instead of getting angry at them. I explained that they had the right to their opinions and to get angry but there was a difference between angry and an agitated mixed state and I wouldn't accept something directed to me in that state whereas they had a right to be angry if I did something that they couldn't accept. But the approach I took after that was with some advocacy letters (outside of any agency) for issues I was working on. I had them participate in it and when they saw the positive results they got it made them feel better about their life and want to approach life in a more rational non emotive way but it came from them and it was a positive constructive approach but getting to a point in my life where I could even approach people in that manner myself didn't happen until my recent recovery and a working mood stabilizer is needed as part of that.
But as for a family member I don't believe in shutting family members out of my life. It would be wrong. But the important thing is for me to make them realize why they would want help instead of getting angry at them. I explained that they had the right to their opinions and to get angry but there was a difference between angry and an agitated mixed state and I wouldn't accept something directed to me in that state whereas they had a right to be angry if I did something that they couldn't accept. But the approach I took after that was with some advocacy letters (outside of any agency) for issues I was working on. I had them participate in it and when they saw the positive results they got it made them feel better about their life and want to approach life in a more rational non emotive way but it came from them and it was a positive constructive approach but getting to a point in my life where I could even approach people in that manner myself didn't happen until my recent recovery and a working mood stabilizer is needed as part of that.
Hi ILAD, you are correct that you need to keep "work colleagues/clients" as strictly that and not let them into your personal life. You need to set boundaries (if you can) within your work as an advocate, always allowing for time out for yourself that you will not veer from unless in an absolute emergency. A trick my mum taught me which has worked professionally and personally is the "half-hour rule". When someone rings you saying they are in a crisis, they are inchoherent with emotion you tell them you will call back in half an hour. You'll be surprised how many times when you ring back the crisis was nowhere near as extreme as first portrayed. This is because the mind/body cannot stay in the "crisis zone" (flight/fight) for a long period.
I used the word selfish earlier but really I mean "self preservation". Work on your own self-esteem and remind yourself that you are no less important than the next person. By all means help people out if that is your vocation but not at the expense of yourself. :-)
I used the word selfish earlier but really I mean "self preservation". Work on your own self-esteem and remind yourself that you are no less important than the next person. By all means help people out if that is your vocation but not at the expense of yourself. :-)
I've learnt the hard way...from trying too hard to please others, like BULLDOZER I also made the decision never to give away my ''power'' again. I've been ''guilty'' of trying too hard to please others, with sometimes catastrophic consequences (especially when hypomanic) and usually at the expense of the people who really need me, my family.
I've learnt to say NO and not feel the need to even justify it. Unfortunately, my circle of ''friends'' is alot smaller than it was, it's funny how people slip away when they realise you don't meet their needs anymore.
So now I make my close family and few friends my priority but most of all I try and make myself a priority too....something that I'm still working on, it isn't easy but the rewards in terms of your own mental health and stability speak for themselves.
So in a nutshell, I think it's about learning to say ''NO''...and learning to become abit selfish and value yourself. Not easy though!
I've learnt to say NO and not feel the need to even justify it. Unfortunately, my circle of ''friends'' is alot smaller than it was, it's funny how people slip away when they realise you don't meet their needs anymore.
So now I make my close family and few friends my priority but most of all I try and make myself a priority too....something that I'm still working on, it isn't easy but the rewards in terms of your own mental health and stability speak for themselves.
So in a nutshell, I think it's about learning to say ''NO''...and learning to become abit selfish and value yourself. Not easy though!
Makes sense. Feel a little bit disoriented now at the full dose of Clonidine but apparently it does have a mood stabilization effect as well as working on other issues. Its hard for me to make a division in my life because there are people I advocate for and that I can't discuss and they can get symptomatic or destructive. As long as it doesn't get confrontational I have to deal with it especially when it was a part time paid position before. Then there are people whom I know as friendsand try to help come to terms with their lives and it doesn't work and I just have to let them go. But then there are people in between. One friend of mine has severe schizoaffective and has decompensated to the point where he has a total lack of hygeine. I set boundaries to the point where I haven't seen him in years but I give him a call to see how he's doing every week and sometimes he's incoherent and I just have to say "yeah" every now and then. But basically he's a decent person at times when he's rational so as new medications come out I give his parents a call to encourage them to update his treatment. But on the other hand a friend of mine who was developmentally disabled stole money from me. There was a whole issue with his money being stolen that I can't detail and I helped put a stop to that but he did use me as he just should have told me what was wrong. But I forgave him. But when he came over to my house again and I had occassionally made a light dinner for us to be nice and he asked "what are WE having for dinner?" I realized he was always going to be manipulative and I stopped speaking to him. I can advocate for and help people in this category but I can't be their friend. Two different issues which are day and night.
I used to be a people pleaser and to a certain degree still am. However after having a few particularly soul destroying moments caused by my need to please I made a conscious decision not to let anyone have the "power" again. I decided to become a little more "selfish". I never say "yes" immediately, I allow myself time to consider what I have been asked. I then give an honest answer, not to justify myself but merely out of respect, I say "I can't do that because....
I also decided that there are very few people in my life who I truly love and who truly love me. Unconditionally. These are the people I like to please but only because it pleases me to do so but again I always take time to answer requests. My true friends have no expectations from me and I have none of them.
I also decided that there are very few people in my life who I truly love and who truly love me. Unconditionally. These are the people I like to please but only because it pleases me to do so but again I always take time to answer requests. My true friends have no expectations from me and I have none of them.
What a thought provoking question and yes...I do this all the time, over & over.
I have always been a "people pleaser". In my family of origin, that was the ONLY way that you got noticed,attention, accolades, acknowledged. It wasn't enough to enjoy music, dance, arts, literature for what it was, you had to win the competition, bring home the trophy, organize the spelling bee, be the editor of the school paper AND you had to do it independantly, exclusively and own it outright so as not to share the limelight with anyone. So after a while, you learned to be territorial about the things that you did because that was the expectation. The family mantra was "If you want it done right, you've got to do it yourself"
What that equated to, in my adult life, was there was no project, job that I wouldn't take on, even if it meant sacraficing my personal boundries of time, energy or space either in a professional or personal capacity. If a friend ( I should say acquaintance) needed her wedding catered for 300 people, I agreed to do it despite that I didn't sleep for 4 days. Another example, I was ordered on bed rest at 28 weeks gestation when pregnant with my twins. My reaction was to have my computer/files etc. moved to my house, hold supervisory meetings in my living room and travel to Munich on business 5 weeks post C section. My employer actually had to send me a letter to "cease & desist" 3 weeks before I gave birth. I suffered sever post partum depression and then started hypomanic/depressive cycling.
My need to please continues to this day in volunteerism. I have difficulty saying no at committee nominations, friends or family who need money, an ear, a shoulder, brute labour whether there is personal satisfaction, accomodation in my schedule, mood, time or energy. I find that there are times where I say yes only to be overwhelmed or underwhelmed and then bail (bale?) on the project and feel enormous guilt afterwards. And I feel that I have failed.
I'm not trying to be a martyr when I get myself in these situations. I feel compelled to contribute because I want to feel valued but perhaps I'm looking at the wrong currency. I do not know how to set the boundries so that I am limiting what I am doing. A lot of the committee work, I end up with a pile of stuff that should not be in my portfollio (as what happened in my professional career) because they know I won't refuse.
Yes, it does set back my own recovery but I lack the tools right now to say No or to set up those boundries. How do you?
I have always been a "people pleaser". In my family of origin, that was the ONLY way that you got noticed,attention, accolades, acknowledged. It wasn't enough to enjoy music, dance, arts, literature for what it was, you had to win the competition, bring home the trophy, organize the spelling bee, be the editor of the school paper AND you had to do it independantly, exclusively and own it outright so as not to share the limelight with anyone. So after a while, you learned to be territorial about the things that you did because that was the expectation. The family mantra was "If you want it done right, you've got to do it yourself"
What that equated to, in my adult life, was there was no project, job that I wouldn't take on, even if it meant sacraficing my personal boundries of time, energy or space either in a professional or personal capacity. If a friend ( I should say acquaintance) needed her wedding catered for 300 people, I agreed to do it despite that I didn't sleep for 4 days. Another example, I was ordered on bed rest at 28 weeks gestation when pregnant with my twins. My reaction was to have my computer/files etc. moved to my house, hold supervisory meetings in my living room and travel to Munich on business 5 weeks post C section. My employer actually had to send me a letter to "cease & desist" 3 weeks before I gave birth. I suffered sever post partum depression and then started hypomanic/depressive cycling.
My need to please continues to this day in volunteerism. I have difficulty saying no at committee nominations, friends or family who need money, an ear, a shoulder, brute labour whether there is personal satisfaction, accomodation in my schedule, mood, time or energy. I find that there are times where I say yes only to be overwhelmed or underwhelmed and then bail (bale?) on the project and feel enormous guilt afterwards. And I feel that I have failed.
I'm not trying to be a martyr when I get myself in these situations. I feel compelled to contribute because I want to feel valued but perhaps I'm looking at the wrong currency. I do not know how to set the boundries so that I am limiting what I am doing. A lot of the committee work, I end up with a pile of stuff that should not be in my portfollio (as what happened in my professional career) because they know I won't refuse.
Yes, it does set back my own recovery but I lack the tools right now to say No or to set up those boundries. How do you?
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