3191940 tn?1447268717

US hospitalization and death stats show that unvaccinated people suffer most

This page is updated regularly with data provided by US states, for states that report these statistics.  In what is not likely to be a surprising revelation, most of the severe and deadly infections are occurring in those who are not fully vaccinated. In fact, the vast majority of infections, period, are occurring in the unvaccinated: https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/

I've seen and heard too may people say that it doesn't matter if you get vaccinated or not, because you could still get COVID either way.  Statements like this are known as "false equivalency," made on the bad faith assumption that the two choices have equal merit/outcomes.  While it's true that vaccinated individuals *can* contract COVID and *can* get severe COVID, the level of health and life risk is not even close to equal among the two groups.  

I hope the page I shared will be of value to other members here.
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707563 tn?1626361905
Hi everyone -

A reminder that MedHelp is a medical site, and as such, an evidence-based site. It is always your right to choose a prevention or treatment method, but as a medical support and information site, it is our responsibility to provide credible resources so that our members and readers can make informed decisions.

We are also not a debate site, nor a political one. If you choose to not vaccinate, you are free to make that choice. If you'd like to debate the reasons behind that, there are loads of other places where you can. If you have questions about the vaccine, we are happy to help answer them.

Thank you.
Helpful - 0
3191940 tn?1447268717
No one ever stated the vaccine is 100% effective.  Not once, not ever.  It was always clear that breakthrough cases would exist.  Also, the efficacy rate was determined during the trials, before the Delta variant existed.  Efficacy rates have been continuously updated as information becomes available.

That chart isn't updated daily, so no, it's not going to be current every single day.  Any credible source you use is up to you.

Every life DOES matter, and the data show that your best chances of survival are had by getting vaccinated, if you are able to do so.
Helpful - 0
the title of your post is laughable. quit trying to shove this vaccine down peoples' throats and you won't get heavy responses from people like me who find it annoying. and stop acting like people don't have the right to choose what to do with their bodies or question a drug that DOESN'T and HASN'T had any long term studies done. just stop already.
No, I won't stop advocating for reducing the risk of COVID transmission.  I won't stop advocating for vaccination.  I won't stop advocating for mask wearing in enclosed spaces, and diligent personal hygiene.  I won't stop advocating for limiting close social contact, because these things all have evidence behind them, showing they reduce - not eliminate - the spread of COVID.  The title of my post is accurate related to the data presented.

I have, and will continue to, present facts and data related to COVID.  If these do not align with your beliefs, it is not anyone else's responsibility to ensure that you're not annoyed by them.  

As always, you do, of course, have a right to choose what to do with your body.  No one here or elsewhere has stated otherwise.  MedHelp is an evidence-based site.  It's important that people who are deciding have as much credible information available as possible.  
I would require vaccination for everyone who has no medical reason not to be.  The very purpose of forming societies and governments is to protect us from just these kinds of things.  But as Emily says below, this isn't a political issue.  Yes, there are breakthrough infections happening, and some of those who get them are getting serious infections.  The vast vast majority of them are not.  But underlying this is, vaccines only work if they accomplish herd immunity, which means everyone has to get them.  If too many don't get vaccinated, the virus has hosts to infect, and can mutate to a point that makes the vaccines work less well or eventually, if we continue to treat this as a political rather than a health issue, to a point where vaccines don't work at all and we're back to square one.  This was always the point.  Polio, which wasn't a political issue in the US, when I was a kid we were in fact vaccinated whether we wanted to or not, nobody asked, has become a political issue in areas of religious extremism, and those extremists have made a couple areas of the world still have polio.  Without them polio would have been eliminated from existence.  The opposition to masking and vaccination in a country where everyone has an education is just plain weird, as these things are the only ways to rid ourselves of this so we don't have to live this way anymore.  It's also not in fact a personal choice.  I keep hearing this, and it is a factual inaccuracy.  I do not choose to have anyone infect me when we have a way to prevent that, and we have two -- masking and the vaccine.  If I can make an analogy, do we all get to drive drunk now because we believe it is better for me and my family to do so?  Of course not.  The logic behind opposition to mandating vaccines and masks contradicts every other law we have that was made to protect us from others.  It's not just me, it's my neighbor, my wife, everyone I come into contact with, and therefore, morally and legally, I have no right to make the decision to infect someone else.  In the law that is either negligence or, at this point, a good argument could be made it is manslaughter or battery because all of us knows what happens when we don't protect others.  Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do.  It's not fun.  But just as you can't drive drunk, can't run a red light, can't shoot your neighbor because he's too loud and interfering with your sleep, you also can't go around infecting others or risking doing that.  It's not political, it's pure survival.  We all know how this got political and who did it, but what none of us can understand is why anyone listened to those people.  Time to get logical.  Peace.
20899328 tn?1596332780
yes, but every life matters right? every case number, hospitalization and death matters - so that same energy needs to be held across the board, and not just for unvaccinated. and honestly? as a society, we need to stop pretending like fully vaccinated people aren't going through the trauma of severe illness, hospitalizations and even worse. in my state, they report the number of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated (kind of like modern time segregation, but i won't go there) and there's a 91% death rate from unvaccinated and 9% are fully vaccinated. hospitalizations are 79% unvaccinated - 8% one dose - and 13% fully vaccinated.

let's not pretend that 9% doesn't exist, because that's what's happening right now. we're pretending, as a society, that they are so small and minuscule that it shouldn't even be shown, discussed or questioned. and people have every right to question it.

the last thing we need to do is treat this like a contest of sorts. "WELL, FALSE EQUIVALENCY BECAUSE VACCINATED PEOPLE ARE MUCH LOWER RATES" pfffffft, please. even if they are? who cares. people are dying. people are having long haul cases after being fully vaccinated. let's not focus on proving someone wrong or right and start focusing on why this is happening when we were told another story.

*i'm not debating this, so commenting back to me would be the "equivalency" of speaking to a wall right now.
Helpful - 0
side note - i just looked at that website and the numbers are wrong for my state. i will listen to the CDC and my health department's numbers instead.
Hi anxiouswhispers.  Hope you are well.  This really seems to strike a cord with you.  Sometimes I have to ask myself why when that happens to me if I have an extreme reaction to something.  There's usually more than what is on the surface. I think that those who choose not to vaccinate have a right to do so.  I believe in total control over our bodies and our health.  The only issue I see here is that this pandemic is being handled very strangely.   I am vaccinated and know that this means that I will be unlikely to have a serious consequence if I get covid.  Those in the hospital ARE just as important people and have loved ones and that isn't what this is saying. It's saying that there is misinformation out there saying that the vaccine doesn't matter because you may still get sick. Well, I *might.  But it would be beyond rare for me to end up on a ventilator because of it. That's really the point I think that is being made. There is such an odd way this pandemic is being handled right now.  As if there is a campaign to help make people NOT to want to get vaccinated when in fact, it really at this point is in their best interest. That is not saying anyone has to.  I don't believe they do. I HOPE they do though. For their own safety. And also for the selfish reason that covid mutates and will continue to do so with more and more variants until we have herd immunity.  And as the virus mutates, it could become more and more dangerous. As a society, normally, we'd worry about that. But somehow this pandemic and this vaccine has all sorts of undertones to it that I don't quite understand.  People are afraid of the vaccine or don't think they need it still. That's one thing but if it is misinformation creating that fear or complacency, that's an issue.   Is there pressure for people to get vaccinated right now?  Yes.  If someone doesn't want to, could they feel pushed and even discriminated against, perhaps.  But the information is the same. The covid deaths right now are those who are not vaccinated which means they could have been prevented. And if someone accepts the risk and doesn't vaccinate, fine. But if they do so because of misinformation, that's not fine.  These are my thoughts and I hope you don't mind my sharing them.
"This really seems to strike a cord with you.  Sometimes I have to ask myself why when that happens to me if I have an extreme reaction to something.  There's usually more than what is on the surface."

if this isn't passive aggressive then i don't know what is. holy cow...

"The covid deaths right now are those who are not vaccinated which means they could have been prevented"

so much for that misinformation speech you gave above, am i right? do you truly believe that if you put a bow on this thing by saying nobody vaccinated has passed, that it will actually come true? does it make you feel better? or is that just classic virtue signaling at its finest? you're commenting on a post that cites a source that tells you vaccinated people HAVE died (albeit being much less than unvaccinated) while claiming vaccinated people do not die. if you're going to claim something, make sure it's actually fact based and not just something to make you feel better.

this whole entire subject of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated has become clown world.
Alright.  Wish you the best.  
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