Lymph node pain in armpits and groin for 2.5 years, one axillary LN 1.6 cm

[Isadorax]

I have experienced pain in my armpits (a burning at times, in different spots) and in my groin (mostly right side but sometimes left) since about November 2019. I have been asking all of my doctors multiple times to ultrasound me and they refused to until I had a mammogram and it showed dense breast tissue and they ordered a breast ultrasound finally. This showed one 1.6 cm lymph node in right axilla only, and the report said that it appeared benign. (No great details there.) I consulted a surgeon who said we could take it out or wait 3 months and check it again so I am waiting for the moment because I am getting mixed messages and honestly some hostility from people I know who think I'm just being a hypochondriac and have been going to too many doctors and worrying too much.

I am 49 female, have had the following tests in the past 2.5 years: colonoscopy (10/21 normal), cystoscopy (twice, both normal), CT of abdomen (twice, normal), US of abdomen complete (twice, one in early 2020 and one in late 2021, both normal), pelvic ultrasound (twice, one transvaginal and one not, showed 2 fibroids on uterus April 2022), 2 mammograms (normal), EKG (normal), CBC and a lot of other bloodwork most of it was normal but one time I was having a gut infection so some were a lil elevated and I'd have to find that paperwork). I have had a root canal about 3 weeks ago for tooth that a dentist advised in late 2019 I would need a crown on, so I knew that was a problem. It was giving me terrible pain for a couple months due to a filling being too close to the nerve. Tooth upper left side.)

Had my teeth all x rayed a lot for full dental exams. Had two fillings, one root canal and bottom teeth scaled and planed with top going to be done next week.

My armpit and groin pain comes and goes. I have gone days and weeks with no pain and then days and weeks with pain that is on and off all day. I can't find what is causing it. I thought maybe sugar. I am pre diabetic. I am obese and also depressed/anxious (clinically and for decades) and VERY VERY inactive. I lay down most of the time leaning on my left elbow. The depression has worsened since the pandemic and loss of my mother in 2020. I have been extremely inactive and do not exercise at all. I see a therapist. I was on Celexa but it didn't help and I have been off it for a couple of months in prep for seeing psychiatrist who might find a new medication to help those issues.

My main concern is what is causing this pain in my armpits and groin. I have had people in my life criticizing me for being scared and concerned, telling me to "trust the doctors" and I feel emotionally decimated and invalidated.

I have been having a mild pain in my neck on left side when I move my head certain ways and my right side seems to be also doing it the past few days. The left side has been a couple of months.

I can't feel any swelling in my groin area and I asked my OBGYN to check and she didn't feel anything. FOr the armpits my GP didn't feel anything but my cardiologist could feel the right axillary one and said it felt to him about a cm (this was a month or so after the ultrasound).

I had a small pea sized node that was palpable under my right earlobe but after a few days it was no longer palpable. (It never hurt.)

I also experience itching in my armpits and groin (i think this all started with itching if I remember correctly). I have been also experiencing a more severe itch in my hands and bottom of my feet the past two weeks out of nowhere and Claritin takes it away. Very strange.

I am wondering if it is cancer, or could be an autoimmune disease or allergy or something else. I am so confused. It has been 2.5 years now and I am exhausted with not only the pain but the worry and the treatment I have received from people I know and also doctors who don't seem to take it seriously or have any kind of advice on what it could be.

My mom had myasthenia gravis and my niece has Hashimoto's. I have been tested in 2018 or 2019 for various neuro diseases and came back negative for MG, I know that. I am not sure what else I was tested for and that neuro doc moved out of state.

I have had a lot of symptoms like fasciculations under my skin all around my body (especially eyelid, face, arms, stomach and legs), numbness around my eye and mouth and forehead sometimes, tingling in hands and feet. My nerves seem to be messed up. These symptoms have been happening for a few years at least.

I am concerned about the pain being in multiple regions (both sides and above and below diaphragm) but so far  can't get any doctors to help me find out what this is from. Even the surgeon said it was unlikely to be cancer (in the axillary lymph node I guess he meant). I keep getting told "cancer doesn't present like that". If it isn't cncer, what IS it? Fibromyalgia? MS? CFS? A low grade systemic inflammation? (I so have metabolic syndrome and inflammation and had PCOS in my 20s and have insulin resistance and sleep apnea, high BP, high cholesterol.)

My first GP gave me 100 mg of Gabapentin 3x a day and it did nothing.

Any ideas and information would be appreciated. I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Thank you.

[Isadorax]

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this. Very helpful. I'm sorry I lost track of things amidst other issues that have arisen, not related to this lymph node stuff. Right now, interestingly I barely have any pain. It can go away for weeks then come back and be daily for months. Never know what it will be.

Thanks so much again and again for everything you have said here. you've put in so much of your time and effort and much more than many of my doctors. I'm so grateful for your time and answers. You've been extremely helpful!

[Ken_PA]

Hi Isadora, if you like you can post the ultrasound report here and I'll explain what it says. It is your legal right to have that report. I'm sure it contains no reason to worry about cancer.

The surgeon is wrong in implying that length alone can point to cancer. However, if you really really really want the biopsy, then go along with the surgeon. That might give you some peace of mind, when the biopsy comes back negative.

The rude doc is correct in that a node which is 2.2cm x 1cm is not-cancer. That shape, long and thin, points to not-cancer. The absolute length cannot point to cancer, but it does point out that something (inflammatory) is amiss.

Dwelling on cancer distracts from finding the *real* cause, which is almost certainly inflammatory.

[Isadorax]

Hi Ken,
I didn't get a report from the ultrasound (they didn't give me one so I have to request it) but the surgeon I saw again said that though there were now 3 nodes enlarged (he said one got smaller so I think he must mean the original one) they are all anatomically healthy looking. He said he met with the doctor at the radiologist and they went over my images and discussed me and he determined that doing a biopsy would cause more harm than good, and said I do not need surgery. He said that they do not indicate cancer and the structure and shape etc. is healthy looking. They're just big for some reason. He didn't help me on the journey of finding out why but there's that. In the time since I've seen him, interestingly my nodes have not hurt as much. I( have had a couple bouts of inguinal pain and a few armpit pain but overall it is like the once many times daily on/off pain has reduced by a good 85% and I don't even know why. It is mysterious. I have not changed my diet or anything and in fact have been stuffing my face and gained weight. I'm correcting that now.

It makes me wonder if there truly is some kind of psychological component. Not to gaslight myself, but I do wonder.

I went to the ENT for a yellow blob on my tonsil and he did the nose camera into the throat and said it is a tonsolith but it is covered with skin so it isn't easily removed plus a surgery for that he says would be very painful. I had been having a bad taste in my mouth when I yawn for the past 8 weeks and he said he doesn't thinkg it would come from that since it isn't oozing or leaking and is covered like by a membrane of tissue but I am thinking it has to be that. He said it's been there "a long time". He prescribed me Omnicef for two weeks and said I can get a CT scan of my sinuses and I said I had had some neck pain on and off and he said I can do a CT of the neck too but I found out he ordered both with and without contrast. I am worried about contrast since my egfr is 55 and creatinine is 1.1 or so. I also don't like it because about 15 years ago when I had iodine contrast for a lung scan it did set off some ectopic beats and I have a history of PVCs and it worried me though they did not last too long, just had a few when it first went in and a few more during the scan and then they waned over an hour or two. I have had jags of them in the past where I'd have an ectopic beat a few times a minute for hours and hours and sometimes more than a day. My cardio guy caught them on a Holter monitor once. I figure there's nothing that can help them but is it safe to get contrast? I read something online that said a ct of the neck should be with OR without but not BOTH. I don't want to get zapped with 150 chest xrays worth of rads, either. I had a sinus CT without contrast in 2018 or 2019 and had at least 2 other ct's to my head before that in my life and don't want to ask for trouble.

The pain in my neck I get is on the side of the tonsil stone and it isn't severe, some days it's not there at all, sometimes weeks and it's not there. I do also tend to til my head onto my hand and lean to the left a lot while online, I will do that for many hours a day. I also when ever I have a sinus migraine i do get pain down the left side of my temple back of head and into neck and shoulder. Have had it that way for 20 + years. I just don't know if I should go looking into neck problems now or not.

What do you think? Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you reading this. Your thoughts have helped me tremendously.

[Ken_PA]

Hi, Isadora. I believe your analysis. That's assuming that the specks are indeed blood, for certain.

You can websearch for--> psychological factors cystitis

E.g.--> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6040587/
[Psychosocial co-morbidities in Interstitial Cystitis...  
]
"Evidence suggests psychosocial factors, such as comorbid anxiety, depression, quality of life... accompany and intensify the illness."

That's not directly talking about bleeding. but it does say that emotions/anxiety can affect the bladder.

We know that emotions/anxiety affect the immune system. Can immune system chemicals cause bleeding? Do ducks float? Yes. The same immune cells that produce histamine also produce heparin, the famous blood thinner -- and too much blood thinning causes bleeding -- especially in mucous membranes.

It is very common that people with hyperactive immune systems and mystery problems get sent to psychiatrists. Still, relaxation can help.

Is the bleeding serious? My *guess* is 'no'. It's not good, but it's all that bad either. Just make sure you're not also bleeding in the GI tract. Vitamin K might help to prevent bleeding, it's used in making the clotting factors in the liver.

Your self observations and analysis are great assets for you, Isadora.

[Ken_PA]

"What do you think? Should I be scared out of my mind"
Nope, you should not be.

But let's take a little side excursion. Some people just can't stop their mind from going to the worst, and especially when it comes to cancer. It's not like you are deliberately *choosing* to think that. And guess what? Being high in histamine levels can lead to anxiety. So that part of it is biochemical, it's not purely psychological.

Isadora, can you maybe do the following: when the bad thoughts come, can you step back and recognize that they are not logical? It'd be sort of like weathering a storm. Your upper mind knows the storm won't wash you away, but your lower mind still has the fear and you still have to live through it. It will eventually subside, and sure it will come again and then you just weather through it again.

Or maybe think of it like watching a horror movie. You feel the fear but you know it's not real, it's a movie.

That's a thought anyway.

Your Claritin is a 'non-sedating' anit-histamine. Maybe you would do better on good old Benadryl, which can be calming.


And no, a node wouldn't be shallow and flat. Maybe it's not really something that's there, or maybe it's just a lipoma (which is not-cancer).

Btw, that muscle is the sternocleidomastoid. Maybe you can distract yourself from the worry by saying that fast 20 times :)

Have you been doing the low histamine recipes? Everything you have heard or believe about 'healthy eating' should be put aside for the short term. E.g., having avocados and spinach are bad because they are high histamine.

I would try the DAO capsules before every meal. Some people feel much better in a matter of days.


How's the fasting going?

[Ken_PA]

"As long as I don't eat I don't feel terribly hungry."
When fasting, after a while the beta Hydroxybutyrate BHB, a 'keytone body') that gets produced takes away hunger. That's one big reason that some people do the ketogenic dieting.

In ancient times, people used fasting as an anti-seizure remedy - as in epilepsy.

Fasting is also anti-inflammatory. So run with it :)

[Ken_PA]

You don't need an ultrasound to check for cancer.

But as to, "Sometimes I just fast and fast because I feel so much better somehow when I don't eat anything (is that an indicator of anything?)"
Yes, you should go with that as a regular part of life from now on. Its likely dopamine (the 'seeking' hormone) that wants you to be active. Plus, you're not taking anything in that harms you, so it's also like a purification. I think you're very lucky that you get that effect from fasting, rather than feeling ill. Very lucky.

I get the same way when I don't eat, and I'm not overweight. It's like being "on", like a wolf loping across the northern plains in the moonlight on an empty stomach.

But you should be sure to take in necessary nutrients over the long term. That's really outside my field, though. However, being low histamine should come first. And don't consume things that reduce your naturally produced DAO, such as alcohol.

Yep, you're lucky you get that feeling.

[Ken_PA]

For exercise, start slow and progress little by little. There's no need to grind yourself down. You want to show how you can do it intelligently, not show how much punishment you can take.

Have water and then a nap afterwards. Just like what the mighty lions do.  :)

[Ken_PA]

The complexity is almost endless:
"Grilled seafood had higher histamine levels than raw or boiled seafood. For meat, grilling increased the histamine level, whereas boiling decreased it. For eggs, there was not much difference in histamine level according to cooking method. Fried vegetables had higher histamine levels than raw vegetables. And fermented foods didn't show much difference in histamine level after being boiled."

Was your salmon grilled?


So here's an idea: how about looking up--> low histamine recipes

[Isadorax]

Hi again, the salmon was baked. We got it fresh from the store not frozen but I don't know how long fish is around (not long I would assume since it tends to spoil fast). We cooked it right away soon as we got it home. I didn't know about the peas. Sad. I love peas.
I don't have painful nodes in my legs, just the armpits and groin. I asked my doc about doing an US of my neck but he said "I advise to wait til you see the surgeon again". Well I'm seeing the surgeon in August and to talk about the 1.6 node in right armpit and whether to bioposy it (take it out) but I have to get an US for that anyway first I would assume but no one's ordered a second one. Sometimes it feels like I'm doing so much of the work here. Having to tell doctors what to order and when. I don't want a biopsy if I don't need one that's for sure, but I'm nervous about it all. Sigh. It's been exhausting, all of this. I am unable to walk too much without just feeling tired. out of shape and all that. I try but get discouraged and to say the least I'm depressed as all get out. I've asked doctors a million times for help but they say "lose weight" (I think this is the key to everything, no? It seems to be to them.) Just lose the weight and everything will be peachy, according to them.

[Ken_PA]

I'm not versed in the histamine-foods angle, so maybe we'll both learn at the same time. It might help by understanding *why* some foods have high levels, and for some it's because of bacteria in the food that's manufacturing histamine. E.g., fish that is super fresh probably has little - but if it's been sitting then it had time to make histamine inside. The peas are naturally high, as are all legumes, IIRC.

Let me know along the way what you learn from your own experience. Reading on websites is just a way to direct your own investigations. You have a very well ordered mind, so that's a big asset to you in this :)

Another lesson learned here might be that you react very strongly to consuming histamine, and that might explain the painful nodes in your legs. So lucky you, you had a meal which made you feel bad :)  It's lucky in that it provided a big clue. Serendipity.

----------

Btw, histamine is broken down in the gut by an enzyme called DAO. Some people buy that to take with meals.  

----------

Not having urticaria pigmentosa tends a lot to say that you don't have the worse kind of MC disorder called mastocytosis. So that's good.

The small patch of brown that you have might very well be melanin pigmentation that was created when something made MCs right there go amok and stimulate the melanocytes to make too much melanin.

[Ken_PA]

Isadora, you really really have to become expert in the histamine content of foods. Websearch for --> histamine peas

and then for salmon. Check more than one site because they can disagree.

Then we'd have to wonder about how soon is the onset of action:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7463562/
Histamine Intolerance: The Current State of the Art  2020
"20–30 min post-ingestion"

-------

Yes, that's a good insight you had about how the anti-histamine med can possibly reduce the severity of  dermographia.

Here's another sign to check in pictures: urticaria pigmentosa   brown spots/patches

Let me know for sure if you have that or not. It's important.

[Isadorax]

No, I don't have anything like the urticaria pigmentosa. I have a light brown oval shaped patch of skin on my lower belly that appeared some years ago but that's all and it doesn't do anything, it doesn't get worse or anything, just is discolored. I never had that before a few years ago. Not sure what that even is but it's one and it's about a couple inches oval so kinda biggish but very light you can't see it very well.

I have been looking at the histamine things and for foods I saw one said chicken was okay and another said it wasn't and another I think said to limit chicken. Not sure who to trust on the foods. I could buy what I need if only I knew what I needed. :(

[Ken_PA]

It's called dermatographia, lines from excessive histamine

-------------

Try this youtube: "Is Histamine Intolerance The Cause Of Your Mysterious Symptoms"

[Isadorax]

Oh, interesting, I didn't know that. I wondered why I got these lines and when I asked my friend to try it he said he didn't get any pink lines at all. Hmm. I'll check the video. Thank you!

[Isadorax]

I looked up images of dermatographia and I get pink lines but they don't seem raised at all.

[Isadorax]

I just remembered that I am on Claritin every day, though. Maybe that's making it milder. I do get these horribly itchy spots on my legs especially where I will scratch like crazy til I'm bleeding then it scabs over and takes I think a couple months to really heal. I can still see the marks from where I scratched it for weeks and weeks.

[Ken_PA]

"started getting symptoms of MG at 84, around Nov 2018 which I'm told is very odd because most people who have it get diagnosed in their 30s or so."
Let's keep in mind that it might be a misdiagnosis then.

"having bouts of nausea followed by a sick overall sensation, like a malaise... Not sure what that was at all."
Probably MCs were stirred up. Same for heat sensitivity and most everything else -- except those due to obesity. PLUS the nerve thing which needs further exploring.

"flushing... Kind of like having a "flare" ... hot sensation and break out in a light sweat... my face will be red for no reason but doesn't feel hot."
The reason is MCs and histamine, PGD2 etc.

Can you write on your sternum with your fingernail? How bad and persistent?

"Can hardly breathe in the heat..."
MCs and their leukotrienes and histamine.

"hiatial hernia and history of significant reflux"
overweight

"tons of bladder issues"
'sterile inflammation' from MCs

blood in urine?  Not sure, but MCs make heparin. Ever have easy bruising? <-- needs answer

MCs have over 100 inputs (receptors) and make maybe over 300 biochemicals (mediators).

[Isadorax]

I don't think I bruise easily. I had two IVs when I had my gut infection and one caused a huge bruise but the other arm (right) had none at all. Sometimes I will see a remnant of a bruise but not know when I got it. I do have tender points all over my body and always have been tender. My friend would poke me and it would hurt for like 15 minutes.

"That would scare me. You need a home BP monitor to see if BP also skyrockets. And look up figures for medical urgency and medical emergency, for BP. If your vision gets swimmy/piecey (tiny retina vessels), that's possibly a med emergency. Go to ER. And btw, kidneys also have tiny vessels. And a bleeding stroke is more rare than blockage strokes, but is much more deadly."
I check my BP every day twice a day and I'm on labetalol and losartan. I also get PVCs so the beta blocker is supposed to ease those (not sure really because I still get them). My sister had a stroke when she was 46 (she is 51 now). It took her about 2 months to see great recovery (walking and all again) and still has a little residual weakness in her left hand/arm. My family has crap blood vessels. Everyone it seems has had strokes and heart attacks. Only my dad's mom had skin cancer (a couple of cousins had skin cancers) and that got bad because they over radiated her in the 1960s so when it recurred it spread. Those are the only cancers I know of in the family. Blood vessels -- mom had varicose veins and diabetes, her mom had diabetes and heart attacks and strokes and still lived to 88. The men sadly fared worse and passed early (uncle at 42, uncle at 70, uncle at I think 71 or so, my dad died at 45 from a pulmonary embolism, dad's father died from a stroke, mom's dad stroke.)

I had my BP go high when I'm in a panic state so I am always trying to not get that bad. I have seen it high at like the dentist office (150s over 100) and such but not usually at home. At home usually I have it in the 110's and 70s or 120s and 80s. It does go up at times though and I'm not always aware of it but I try to keep my meds to schedule as best I can. Usually if I screw up and miss a dose or something it tends to get wonky.

My mom's MG, they thought it was a stroke at first because her tongue wouldn't work. She couldn't swallow and that got worse and worse. Her doctor tested her for MG in August 2019, she was in hospital in Oct in ICU for months and on ventilator. She had IVIG infusions that would help a lot but not last long, only a couple weeks or three. If it wasn't MG I'm not sure what else it could have been. I don't know enough about all that. It sure was strange to have it happen so late in life, though.

[Isadorax]

"Can you write on your sternum with your fingernail? How bad and persistent?"
It does leave a pink streak when I do that. it's been a couple minutes and it's there. What does it mean?

[Isadorax]

I just had some salmon and peas for dinner and my lymph node in right armpit did this thing where it felt like a hot poker was poking into it. It was like a searing burning kind of pain right where the node is. It lasted only a few seconds and then was gone. I felt around the armpit and node area but can't feel any painful spot right now. It's like it didn't like the salmon. What was that? Do reactive and inflamed nodes just do that? It was worse pain than I usually have in the armpit. All day it barely hurt, too.

[Ken_PA]

"I struggle to get my iron to normal levels."
You probably have mineral absorption problems because your duodenum is damaged... by MCs. Take vit C with iron to try to improve absorption.


"though 3rd time my arm was sore for about 4 or 5 days which was odd since the others were about a day or day and a half)"
The immune system learns, then can suddenly act like a hurricane on subsequent exposures. Especially for Type 1 Sensitivities (IgE on MCs). People who one day died from a peanut probably felt no problem from the first peanut exposures.

It's about odds. Imagine somebody who says that they once played  Russian Roulette with no problem, and therefore it's completely safe.

"third shot also did something where two days after I woke up at 2 am with my heart racing at 155 BPM"
That would scare me. You need a home BP monitor to see if BP also skyrockets. And look up figures for medical urgency and medical emergency, for BP. If your vision gets swimmy/piecey (tiny retina vessels), that's possibly a med emergency. Go to ER. And btw, kidneys also have tiny vessels. And a bleeding stroke is more rare than blockage strokes, but is much more deadly.

Or maybe your BP went very low that night and so you had reflex tachycardia. Not so worrying.

ERs are not good at all for solving mysteries, though. That's not their field.

[Ken_PA]

"I struggle to get my iron to normal levels."
Or maybe low stomach acid.

[Ken_PA]

"When I was in my early 20s I suddenly out of nowhere got pain and swelling in all of my joints, it even seemed like nodules were on my wrists."
Before or after mom's MG?


"I went to an orthopedic guy and he took x rays and did some TENS unit therapy."
That was the usual approach of treating symptoms. We want to find cause(s).

[Isadorax]

My mom died at 86 and she only started getting symptoms of MG at 84, around Nov 2018 which I'm told is very odd because most people who have it get diagnosed in their 30s or so. She was a nurse so I know a lot of medical jargon so please jargon away. What I don't know I'll look up. :)

Almost everything I've had is before her MG started. The armpit pain started after. When the armpit pain started I remember I was also having bouts of nausea followed by a sick overall sensation, like a malaise wave and some days I felt just dreadful but that lasted a few months then went away on its own. I had it only a few times since and probably once of twice in the past 1.5 years. Not sure what that was at all.

I have anemia but my mom also had that most of her life and said maybe I inherited that somehow. They found I was anemic when I was pregnant in 2008 and I struggle to get my iron to normal levels. They've never found out why I have it. I think I'm at 9 or 10 now and it just hovers around there. I went to 5 once but they didn't give me a transfusion. they tell me to take iron supplements.

Interestingly I had all three Covid shots (Pfeizer) and only had a sore arm all three times (though 3rd time my arm was sore for about 4 or 5 days which was odd since the others were about a day or day and a half) -- third shot also did something where two days after I woke up at 2 am with my heart racing at 155 BPM. It resolved itself in about an hour or two, slowing going back to normal. I had no other side effects from the shots. I also had a couple of tetanus shots in the past 4 years with no side effects other than sore arm. Is that strange?

[Ken_PA]

"Oh this does wonders for my over active brain, which of course goes straight to the idea of cancer since it's bigger than 1 cm."
Nope, that's plainly wrong. Merely looking at that one dimension is very wrong.

"gut infection" Any infection or vaccine can stir up the immune system. Any allergy likewise -- if you spent a week in the desert, you might improve just because of being away from humidity and molds and pollens.

Body fat is pro inflammatory. Exercise makes muscle produce anti-inflammatory biochemicals.

"hyper flexible" --> Ehler's Danlos Syndrome, which is highly  associated with all of this, as is CFS & Fibromyalgia and so on.

Some docs say that immune cells called "mast cells" (remember their name forever) might cause EDS. The MCs also produce histamine and other inflammatory biochemicals like prostaglandins and leukotrienes. I'm trying to not use too much jargon, but some is necessary. A necessary--> MCAS which is Mast Cell Activation Syndrome.

"When I had chicken pox at 13 it affected my CNS and I could hardly stand up at all, my back was intensely weak and affected."
Wow, that's super important. That was before your mom had MG symptoms? This is the one topic that still needs thrashing out. We have to separate real neuromuscular symptoms from mimicking, just as we separated real pain from imaginary or over-exaggerated pain.

"I was always curious why it hit me so hard like that."
Me, too. We need to find that out.

Maybe later today I'll websearch:
chicken pox nerve sequelae
chicken pox chronic complications
chicken pox post viral syndrome


"I will reread probably ten times"
That's perfect :)

"But you're here now and I feel there is hope!"
Let's make this successful. Then we'll both be justly proud, okay?

[Isadorax]

I've also had a fatty liver for 20 years or so. I'm 5 foot 2 and about 225 lbs. I got down to 190 after my mom died then I started eating crap again.

[Isadorax]

You mentioned flushing earlier and I don't get that regularly but I have had it at times in the past. Kind of like having a "flare" where I would have it on and off then it goes away for  while. I would go to the store and suddenly get this hot sensation and break out in a light sweat and it would resolve in about ten or 15 mins. Sometimes my face will be red for no reason but doesn't feel hot. Hmm. I'm very pale (you can see my veins easily) and in any great heat my face turns beet red. I have heat intolerance. Heat can make me feel nauseated. I always have a fan on even through winter. (I'm in TX so that's no fun. I can't even go out much for much of the year with the 90+ degree heat.) Can hardly breathe in the heat but can walk briskly and breathe easier in winter.

I also have a mild hiatial hernia and history of significant reflux. It even caused chest pain through my 20's and 30's. Lots of heart tests to make sure of what it was and wasn't. Had my throat and stomach imaged and an EGD in 2008 (without sedation, that was interesting.) Also have a rectocele and tons of bladder issues (frequency, urgency, discomfort -- I thought I had interstitial cystitis and maybe I do. I get flares where I have to pee every few minutes then it resolves and I'm "normal" (ha ha) for a while, maybe days or weeks and then it happens again. That's over 20 years of that and many visits to various urologists and urogynecologists who just say overactive bladder. Also after my mom died I had an issue I never did find out the cause -- I was seeing blood on the tissue after I peed and wiped. I had my bladder looked into (literally, and a ct scan as well) and they saw nothing wrong. I did have a 1mm kidney stone (and i have one stone now but they said it's not a problem). No idea what caused that bleeding and it was almost daily for 8 months then it went away on its own.

[Isadorax]

Hi Ken,

I went back to my surgeon and he says he is not worried and wants to reassure me but that he does take this seriously so he will do another ultrasound at the end of July but he doesn't want to take anything out unless it is necessary.

I have another problem that's come back and that is the blood in my urine. After my mom died, about a week after, I started seeing pink bits in my urine and when I wiped though they were never mixed with the urine itself. It was always separated from it. I saw a urologist and had a cystoscopy which was normal and a CT scan without contrast which was normal and that was back in July 2020. The urologist didn't do anything else. I had this pretty much every day for 8 months. No one could tell me WHY. Sometimes the blood was faint pink and barely perceptible and sometimes it was more reddish but always seemed to be like bits of bloody mucus. A very little amount even at its worst but disturbing to my mind because I had no answers or way to make it stop.

I rekindled an old friendship online in January 2021 and that started to turn into a romance by May. Around March I started to see less of the blood. It was pretty much gone by April and May, and it didn't come back consistently anymore. I would go months and then see one speck and then more months. So I thought it was over because I had gone for a follow up cystoscopy this year and the Urologist just kind of said he thought it was an irritation of some kind (but for 8 months????).

The romance I have had going on was intense and he just broke up with me last Monday. I immediately started thinking about the blood for some reason, like he had been keeping it at bay somehow. I started thinking it was going to come back and every time I wiped I was surprised nothing was there. Until two nights ago. I saw it again. And each time it got worse. I sent a urine sample to my urologist to check it and I'm waiting to hear back.

Is it in any way unreasonable (given how much you know of me) to say that I willed this thing into existence? I have to say I have lost 10 lbs this week, have been unable to eat (ate nothing monday, nothing tuesday, and only a piece of chicken wednesday. Then I had chicken thursday and I'm not even sure if I ate yesterday.) Have not been drinking much but I tried to get half a water in a couple times. I've been emotionally devastated. Shaking, crying, waking up over and over from sleep in a sweat. Vivid dreams. This has thrown me into a very bad despair and affects my whole body. I usually have xanax for when I am in crisis or panic but I had only one pill left and my doctor is on vacation. I was stupid to not refill it on time. I've been toughing it out this week and trying to cope. I even tried to have a bit of wine but only a few sips. (I've never been drunk so I don't know how much wine to drink to even feel "good" or what you're supposed to feel.)

I started obsessing about the blood in the urine right after this breakup happened and I felt so helpless and vulnerable. I am back where I started in a way, now trying to again find out why it happened. I've had so many things scanned and been to so many doctors. No one seems to want to help me find out what it is.
Any thoughts on this? Thank you so much!

[Isadorax]

I also researched online and only found one incident of a man who had blood in his urine due to psychological stress and once he was treated for that, it went away and didn't come back and they followed him for a year. My urologist says that stress can't cause blood in the urine, and he says dehydration can't and high blood pressure can't. I am not sure I agree with him.

I am seeking a psychiatrist for proper treatment. I went off my 10 mg of Celexa and my gp said if I want to try it at a therapeutic dose she said I have to start at 10, increase to 20 and I have to be taking at least 40 to see any difference. So taking 10 mg for years wasn't doing anything. I started my first doze of 10mg yesterday and will try to get to 40 and see how it makes me feel. I think my mind and my fear has always had particular power over me and my symptoms (I can't tell you how many times I resolved one issue only to conjure another one within hours or days). It's like I can't be without some bodily thing to fixate on.

It is just too strange to say I was not seeing any of this blood for about 16 months except for maybe a speck 4 or 5 times in passing over that time and all of a sudden boom, it is a lot more and I can see the tiny specks of pink floating in the urine in the specimen cup. It also looks a bit orange, too. No one's been able to explain it. It feels like no one cares. I'm just a head case to them. Something is visibly there, though. I'm not imagining it. But I also think that if he had not broken up with me on Monday, this would never have happened. That means my brain is somehow "causing" it.

[Ken_PA]

Here is the grand overview: your immune system is doing this. You have the genetic predisposition, plus the physical life factors and emotional experiences to exacerbate things tremendously. Realizing this is, I'd say, easy. But reversing things will be arduous. If you dedicate yourself and work ultra hard to understand and overcome this, it will be a magnificent victory.  

[Isadorax]

I sure hope so because I have been so depressed the past 2.5 years it has made it hard a lot of the time to have any energy, to WANT to get out of bed and move or eat right or lose weight. That is one thing that's the hardest to combat -- the mind. I have nightmares and bad sleep, too. I know sitting around isn't helping but then I feel pain or worry about something and I'm off stuffing my face feeling I can't change anything. Plus it's so difficult to craft up a diet and menu for what I can and can't eat. Sometimes I just fast and fast because I feel so much better somehow when I don't eat anything (is that an indicator of anything?). I don't know if my lymph nodes hurt less or the same but my stomach feels better empty and overall I just feel less bloated and blubby. If I just don't eat I feel better all over. But then I have to eat something and as soon as I eat something I want to keep eating. As long as I don't eat I don't feel terribly hungry. It is weird to be obese and not eating for great periods of time and still not losing a lot of weight. I can lose about a lb a day or so if I do 20 carbs or less on Atkins but it's very hard to maintain.

I messaged my surgeon to ask about the next US and he said he'd call but didn't ha. I've been having pain in my neck and asked GP for US and he said go wait for surgeon. I am a ping pong ball!

[Ken_PA]

"if it's the surrounding area that hurts"
That's medically possible, just as any swelling caused by injury or inflammation or otherwise can hurt.

"Could a cancer cause a node to cause referred pain without actually hurting itself?"
If it's big enough to press on something,, esp if sensitized.

"spontaneous zing"
Sounds like something pressing on a nerve.

"I had an infection in my gut for about 12 days"
That introduces the whole other huge topic, very relevant, of how gut dysbiosis can elevate systemic inflammation.


"Is it very unlikely a cancer would cause this kind of pain that can lasts days/weeks then disappear again for days/weeks over such a long time?"
Very, very unlikely. How can a body's immune system wipe out  a cancer, then let it soon grow again? Back and forth repeatedly. But not-cancer inflammation can readily do that.

"after standing"
Usually blood pressure goes down upon standing (orthostatic hypotension) in immune system cases. So it's unusual to go up. Btw, are you hyper flexible? <-- make sure to answer that


"when re-reading"
Wow, that's excellent that you read it through more than once :)  Bravo.


"(I can't tell you how much I've cried over it and spent a month basically sleeping and crying after she passed away.)"
I think that devotion is admirable, but it's got to stop along with the stress and tension and guilt. Your system can't physically take it.

"I wonder sometimes if her illness and hospitalization somehow triggered something in me."
Yes, one's immune system can be changed. The immune cells change (e.g., they 'express more receptors').

"We were always very close and I would mimic her symptoms sometimes and I'm very suggestible."
Okay, I was very much going to ask you if your MG-like symptoms might be psychosomatic. I figured I'd wait a day, when you'd realize that I was not being mindlessly critical of you :)

It's good that you are very honest. Btw, some of your docs will inevitably think you are making things up, they usually refer to a shrink in mystery immune cases.

"This makes me sound crazy"
People with highly active immune systems are often also subject to high anxiety. You're not 'crazy'. Some of your docs think you are - that is common because some of their patients are. But not you. Oh, and NEVER EVER EVER let them think you want opioids. Which you don't, but always tell them that you don't.

"I know I'm not imagining my pain"
Yep, that's why I'd mentioned about physical reasons that such a thing exists physiologically. But you probably can't convince most docs. Doctors are great at handling the things they know how to handle. They are not great at handling mystery cases.

"or the 1.6 cm lymph node"
Yes, bingo. Hard evidence. But the 1.6mm does not tend toward cancer. If you post the ultrasound report, we can go over that.

What we want is to use your analytical mind to obsessively get at what the real cause is, and not get endlessly sidetracked into thinking of cancer. You should not listen to anybody who says to just stop worrying and forget about everything - that's just dumb :)  You want your long suffering to end, not be just disregarded.


"Sorry I keep writing novels"
Oh, that's exactly what is required. To understand and make it all make sense together.

[Ken_PA]

"if it's the surrounding area that hurts"
That's medically possible, just as any swelling caused by injury or inflammation or otherwise can hurt.

"Could a cancer cause a node to cause referred pain without actually hurting itself?"
If it's big enough to press on something,, esp if sensitized.

"spontaneous zing"
Sounds like something pressing on a nerve.

"I had an infection in my gut for about 12 days"
That introduces the whole other huge topic, very relevant, of how gut dysbiosis can elevate systemic inflammation.


"Is it very unlikely a cancer would cause this kind of pain that can lasts days/weeks then disappear again for days/weeks over such a long time?"
Very, very unlikely. How can a body's immune system wipe out  a cancer, then let it soon grow again? Back and forth repeatedly. But not-cancer inflammation can readily do that.

"after standing"
Usually blood pressure goes down upon standing (orthostatic hypotension) in immune system cases. So it's unusual to go up. Btw, are you hyper flexible? <-- make sure to answer that


"when re-reading"
Wow, that's excellent that you read it through more than once :)  Bravo.


"(I can't tell you how much I've cried over it and spent a month basically sleeping and crying after she passed away.)"
I think that devotion is admirable, but it's got to stop along with the stress and tension and guilt. Your system can't physically take it.

"I wonder sometimes if her illness and hospitalization somehow triggered something in me."
Yes, one's immune system can be changed. The immune cells change (e.g., they 'express more receptors').

"We were always very close and I would mimic her symptoms sometimes and I'm very suggestible."
Okay, I was very much going to ask you if your MG-like symptoms might be psychosomatic. I figured I'd wait a day, when you'd realize that I was not being mindlessly critical of you :)

It's good that you are very honest. Btw, some of your docs will inevitably think you are making things up, they usually refer to a shrink in mystery immune cases.

"This makes me sound crazy"
People with highly active immune systems are often also subject to high anxiety. You're not 'crazy'. Some of your docs think you are - that is common because some of their patients are. But not you. Oh, and NEVER EVER EVER let them think you want opioids. Which you don't, but always tell them that you don't.

"I know I'm not imagining my pain"
Yep, that's why I'd mentioned about physical reasons that such a thing exists physiologically. But you probably can't convince most docs. Doctors are great at handling the things they know how to handle. They are not great at handling mystery cases.

"or the 1.6 cm lymph node"
Yes, bingo. Hard evidence. But the 1.6mm does not tend toward cancer. If you post the ultrasound report, we can go over that.

What we want is to use your analytical mind to obsessively get at what the real cause is, and not get endlessly sidetracked into thinking of cancer. You should not listen to anybody who says to just stop worrying and forget about everything - that's just dumb :)  You want your long suffering to end, not be just disregarded.


"Sorry I keep writing novels"
Oh, that's exactly what is required. To understand and make it all make sense together.

[Isadorax]

The node is 1.6 centimeters. Well, that was done literally while I was going through the gut infection (I was uh, how delicately to say this -- I had intense pain in the gut and motility and was basically emptying my bowel until there was just bloody mucus left. I went to two ER's that first day. It was horrible.) I don't know if a gut infection though would have increased an axillary node to 1.6 centimeters and I don't have any scans of it before that or after so there's that. I will find the report but I don't remember it being very detailed just that the doctor who reviewed said it was benign appearing. Oh this does wonders for my over active brain, which of course goes straight to the idea of cancer since it's bigger than 1 cm.

"Btw, are you hyper flexible? <-- make sure to answer that"
My knees have always hyperextended (easy when I was younger to put my hands flat on the floor in front of me while standing because I'd just bend my knees back. Have a Baker's cyst behind one knee now for many years. Maybe it came from doing that. I used to be able to put my fingertips behind each other (can't anymore). Like where I'd put the tip of the pinky behind the bottom of my ring finger and the tip of the ring finger behind the bottom of the middle finger and so on like a little chain. I can also bend the first knuckles of my right hand (not so great at this with left hand). I am not super super flexible like a contortionist or anything but in general I would say I have been more flexible than my friends. My mom said my grandfather also could hyperextend his knees so she thought it was inherited. Then again she also always told me I had "weak nerves". When I ha chicken pox at 13 it affected my CNS and I could hardly stand up at all, my back was intensely weak and affected. I could not really walk much at all. I was always curious why it hit me so hard like that.

"not get endlessly sidetracked into thinking of cancer."
I will reread everything you said (I will reread probably ten times) but this seems right now to be my biggest enemy. My brain has decided what it "must" be and it's so hard to get that thinking changed to other possibilities. But you're here now and I feel there is hope!

[Isadorax]

I am having trouble keeping the comments on this in line. I keep looking for things you've said but they're collapsed under other things.

I looked at my neck today and thought maybe because of the lighting that the right side lower neck down from my ear maybe 4 inches down or so looked a wee bit pronounced so I started feeling it and thought maybe there's a swollen lymph node there because I couldn't feel something exactly like it on the other side. Now I'm panicking about this even though the area only feels slightly like a lump but quite big and spread out so maybe it isn't actually a node at all but just another part of my neck. It doesn't hurt. It feels I guess rubbery but not hard and not like a hard rubber just bouncey like. It feels connected to the rest of my neck so I can't find any proper margins which makes me wonder if it's a node at all though it's right in the line of the neck nodes when I looked it up. I don't think it's the supraclavicular ones because it is a bit above that but not far above. Maybe it's about 3 or 3.5 inches below my ear lobe on that side following that big muscle/tendon thing in the neck. Could there be cancer in there?

I feel so weary of all this medical stuff but my groin and armpits are still hurting and I STILL have not heard back from the surgeon when I asked him a question the day I saw him and that was now a couple weeks ago at least. I am really losing confidence in the whole medical community. My doctor won't even order an US of my neck at all and says wait for the surgeon to see me again. How does anyone get taken care of when the doctors don't take anything seriously? I'm so frustrated! It is hard to work and sleep and function with all this worry on my mind. I have a family to support and think about yet doctors don't care how my anxiety is affecting my job or family or anything. It would not be a big deal to just order an US for me. The more I think about it the more I worry and think so many things like cancer. I can't get it out of my mind. I don't recall ever having anything in my neck aside from that little tiny bump under my right earlobe a couple weeks ago that went away. This, whatever this is, is quite a lot larger but it may not even be a node at all and just the way my body is right there. I can't really see anything sticking out, it was just in the light in the bathroom today I thought my already pretty fatty neck just seemed a little fattier in the skin there, nothing big bulging or anything.
What do you think? Should I be scared out of my mind because I feel like I'm starting to lose it in my head over this stuff. Thank you for listening. I am interested to know what you think.

[Isadorax]

Hi Ken,

I had a follow up ultrasound of my right axillary nodes and they said they saw 3 nodes and they didn't seem to want to give me much info except to say "everything looks good" and they didn't see any indications of cancer in the nodes. I talked with the doctor who came in to review the ultrasound and I asked about size and she said there were 3 prominent nodes and one was 2.2 cm but she said it was by 1 cm I think. I am not super sure because she was very annoyed sounding. Like she was not expecting to have to explain anything or be asked questions. She said the anatomy of the nodes looked normal and that cancer pain "doesn't come and go". I told her my surgeon had said he would biopsy if the node was over 1.6 and she started almost arguing with me that that isn't the recommendation of this that and the other governing body and their criteria.

I am waiting for my surgeon to review the report and let me know what he thinks.

Confusing.

[Ken_PA]

Hi, Isadora.
1) No, there's no reason to think of cancer here.
2) Yes, there is every reason to think of a mystery immune condition.

Cancerous nodes rarely feel painful. But reactive nodes (that's when the immune system is reacting to some real or imaginary invader) do feel pain, from the swelling they undergo. Cancerous nodes don't go up and down - imagine if they can stop having cancer inside, back and forth repeatedly -- that would be almost miraculous. But reactive nodes do go up and down, that's normal for them. Something is setting them off.

The immune biochemical histamine seems very much involved. It causes swelling. It also is the main cause of *itching*. What about skin flushing? Insomnia? Bad reactions to mold, perfume, or bee stings?

Claritin helped because it is an antihistamine. So is regular Benadryl/diphenhydramine. Try that as a topical creme when itching strikes.

Some people are extra sensitive to pain caused by immune biochemicals like 'Substance P' and bradykinin. It's surprising but true that contestants on shows like Biggest Loser actually *do* feel more pain, they're not just being whiners :)

I'm sure you understand that weight loss is essential here. And it's much better than some pill a doc might give, if there even is one. It's better to remove the overall cause than to merely treat the symptoms individually.

"I have been also experiencing a more severe itch in my hands and bottom of my feet the past two weeks out of nowhere and Claritin takes it away. Very strange."
Touching anything? Going barefoot? Yep, palms and soles would be very unusual, unless it's from contact.

"I am concerned about the pain being in multiple regions..."
Let's look at it as generalized inflammation, with flareups. Not cancer.

So then, what are the triggers? Are you aware that certain foods contain histamine? Let's start with that as a possible trigger. Please study a list of histamine foods, some are surprising. Then there are sensitivities to oxylates, salicylates, etc.

Stress also raises overall inflammation.

"doctors who don't seem to take it seriously"
Because they don't know what to do, and this doesn't seem life threatening. It is very common for people with mystery immune conditions to go *years* without answers. Very common.

"If it isn't cancer, what IS it? Fibromyalgia? MS? CFS? A low grade systemic inflammation?"
Yes :)  All are officially mysteries, btw.

"I have been having a mild pain in my neck on left side"
Probably too much bed time.

We need to get you up and about while you still can. Without a drill sergeant at hand, we have to find some lure to it for you.

"fasciculations"
We can get to that tomorrow, because that's important. False negative test results maybe?

"I feel like I'm losing my mind."
Hang in there :) We can make some good progress.

[Isadorax]

Thank you so much for answering so fast and so in depth. I wanted to add that I'm not sure the node itself hurts or if it's the surrounding area that hurts. I felt under my arm and it does feel sore/tender but also I'm not sure if I'm feeling the node or near it. Could a cancer cause a node to cause referred pain without actually hurting itself? I can't feel the node itself (not sure where to feel and nothing feels hard or lumpy to me but I really don't know what else I'm looking for. I have felt all around the armpits and groin areas.) The pain I get is like a spontaneous zing or a bit of an ache/burning and it comes and goes. Sometimes the pain is closer to my back, sometimes high up, sometimes low and toward the chest, but all around the armpit area. I have had the latest "flare" for about 2 months now with a few days in there where I didn't feel it. I had an infection in my gut for about 12 days and they gave me steroids which seemed to also relieve the armpit pains. The Claritin takes away the itching but not the pain. (I do go barefoot all the time. We also have a dog. Got her about a year ago now.) I am sensitive to perfumes, they make me cough and get a tickle in my lungs and some cause itching in my throat. I can't use them. I have not been using deodorants and I use Dove soap or Ivory. I am trying not to put anything on my body and I don't even wear makeup hardly ever (a few days a year).

I would dye my hair with deposit dye to reduce allergy risk (I am allergic to most other dyes) and when I used Manic Panic (I'd used it MANY times before) a month or so ago, both my hands started itching like crazy in the thumb webbing area (between thumb and forefinger). I had never had that happen before, that deep deep itching and so insanely bad both in the webbing on both hands. I had an episode of very mild itching on the backs of my hands when I took Vicodin about 16 or 17 years ago and that's the last time I took that.

Is it very unlikely a cancer would cause this kind of pain that can lasts days/weeks then disappear again for days/weeks over such a long time? It does seem like a really long time for nothing to have been found. (I do worry about my upper body and ask if I need an ultrasound of my head/neck or any other tests.)

My kidneys are at 59 EGFR so I try not to take Advil much if at all. I also have chronic migraines (20+ years, usually with rain), some pressure in my head when I stand up (for almost 10 years, had brain scan for that, they didn't find anything wrong and just said idiopathic intracranial hypertension. I have had tinnitus since April 1, 2021 (I remember it clearly starting after a shower) and it is pulsatile at times in left ear which was happening after standing a lot of the time for years but the ringing is there now, too.) I'm a bit of a mess. I thought maybe I had MS. SO many symptoms for so many years.

Histamine does seem to be something. We do have some mold in the apartment (in the vents and in bathroom, always trying to get rid of black mold.) I am allergic also to juniper (mountain cedar) and had very bad reactions to that in December through Feb for past 5 years or so (was not having symptoms before but I left Texas for 3 years and 3 years after I returned, it started).  I am allergic to cats so I stay away from them. I itch, cough, sneeze etc.

I was wearing a mask outside before the pandemic during cedar season and I'd have to wash my hair every time I came home and use anti allergy pillowcases and I have an air purifier in every room. Last two cedar seasons were very mild to non-existent for symptoms (I think because we all stayed home so much and less pollen got onto/into me.)

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me and read this. You're the first person in this whole thing who has been kind and gentle and thoughtful and extremely informative and gives me some HOPE. I have cried many tears over this mystery.

[Isadorax]

Oh one other thing about being sensitive to pain, I didn't think I was but I had my colonoscopy without sedation (I am phobic about not being in control, never been drunk or high ever, can't handle that) and the pain I would say was a 10 out of 10. The turns were excruciating and even the GI doc commented on how my gut is so sensitive. I forgot to mention I was diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome as well when I was 17. I kind of have Irritable Everything right now.

:) Thank you again. I am so thankful you're out there.

[Isadorax]

I thought of one more thing when re-reading what you wrote. This armpit pain started in one armpit, moved to the other then to the groin both sides but mainly the right in late 2019. My mom went into the hospital for myasthenic crisis in late October 2019. She passed away in May 2020. The pandemic sent me into a tailspin (I was already coping with extreme anxiety and I had been hospitalized for it hen I was 17 after my father passed away and I had panic attacks, derealization, depersonalization, hyperventilation etc.) I was constantly visiting my mom in the ICU over Nov, Dec of 2019, then Jan, Feb, March of 2020, she came home to be with me for 3 weeks and got pneumonia (she was still trached and on ventilator at night and feeding tube) and went back to the ICU and I was allowed to see her once before she was actively dying in May and at that time I was having so much anxiety about covid that I wouldn't leave the house not even to be with her when she died and I couldn't go to the funeral. I was emotionally destroyed by this entire thing, her illness, the pandemic, feeling I had failed her (I can't tell you how much I've cried over it and spent a month basically sleeping and crying after she passed away.) I have had so much stress I would not leave my house ever in 2020 past March but for that one visit and a few doctor visits and I looked like a spaceman I had myself so protected with stuff (masks, goggles, hair covering, the works.) I wonder sometimes if her illness and hospitalization somehow triggered something in me. We were always very close and I would mimic her symptoms sometimes and I'm very suggestible. This makes me sound crazy but I know I'm not imagining my pain or the 1.6 cm lymph node. If you have any insights or thoughts on this, I'm interested in anything you've got.

[Isadorax]

Sorry I keep writing novels.

"fasciculations"
We can get to that tomorrow, because that's important. False negative test results maybe?

Hmm. They flared up a lot for a few months and lately I have not had as many at all. For about 2 or 3 weeks I was getting a crazy twitch in my right thumb. That was some months back now. I've had essential tremor from time to time (once I got it out of nowhere and it lasted about 2 or 3 weeks then went away on its own. One time in 2005 every one of my fingertips went numb for a couple of weeks. It went away on its own. When I was in my early 20s I suddenly out of nowhere got pain and swelling in all of my joints, it even seemed like nodules were on my wrists. I went to an orthopedic guy and he took x rays and did some TENS unit therapy. I was hurting all over, all the joints and in my back. It took a month or two to go away on its own and it never came back. I am a medical mystery.)