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4105307 tn?1369531432

Cat diabetes

What is the largest safe dose of insulin for a 12 pound cat with diabetes and cushing's disease?
Best Answer
506791 tn?1439842983
I'm glad my words were of some use to you.

I looked at the glucose curve generator, unfortunately we do not use the insulin for which this is calibrated.  Hldie gets 2 1/2 units, twice a day of Prozinc, which is a human dna based, synthetic insulin, not a porcine like the Vetsulin.

My brother in law had Grave's disease, so I know how hard it can be to balance medications.

Luckily, Miss Hildie just has adult onset diabetes without further complications.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
You and I have tried finding other cases of feline cushings and it took years. I appreciate your sharing and understand. We lost a 19 year old kitty years ago to old age. He was healthy until the end. There are 2 cremation boxes and when our ashes are scattered his and Tink's will be tossed along with ours. Some are just more special than others. Keep me posted about Tuxie. He's a very lucky boy to have you as his mom. They always love you back don't they.
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11698319 tn?1420547360

I can only imagine how hard it is for both of you to deal with Tink having gone to the Bridge. I lost my Buzzy rescue kitty 15 years ago and I can still cry when I think of him or look at photos of him. He was one of 5 kittens found in a BFI container in the middle of a hot summer, when they were about 5 weeks old by a friend of mine. I took my Buzzy, and my friend took Storm and 3 others took the rest. Three of the kittens did not even survive the first week. My friend's kitty, Stormy made it to 1 year before passing. It took lots of time and meds and treatment but my Buzzy grew into a wonderful, loving sweetheart, who adored me as much as I adored him. Unfortunately at the age of 14 he developed intestinal cancer and I had to let him go. I love all my kitties but Buzzy was that "special" kitty who will always hold a piece of my heart.

I have been giving insulin for Tuxie for about 2 months..first Lantus, with no results even with dose increases, then recently switched to Levemir, which seems to give better results. I just had an oral LDDS UCCR test done to make SURE that it was pituitary based Cushing's and not adrenal and I am waiting for the results. It was actually a test I found on-line simply using urine catches over 3 days and Dexamethasone doses rather than having to be in the vet's office for 8 hours so it was much lower stress. My vet is quite interested to see the results since she has never used this one for cats. Mind you not many vets come across potential Cushing's in cats in their practise.

I take care of everything myself, which is fine since I am basically retired at this point. I can do with little sleep if need be so whatever Tuxie needs, Tuxie gets.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
Yes, you seem to understand.  I felt less alone and more hopeful with the posts I received. My husband was so close to Tink he found/finds it too hard to talk about her. She slept on his arm every night until he fell asleep. My continued interest in Tuxie may help repay the concerns expressed for her. Blessings on you for helping Tuxie through these difficult times. How long have you been giving insulin? Do you have someone else helping with his care? I'm glad your vet is working well with you.
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11698319 tn?1420547360

Thank you for the information links. I found a couple of case studies where Trilostane was used for Cushing's in a cat and the results were promising. But as you said there is so little information on cat Cushing's, I have found that since I recently changed from Lantus to Levemir Tuxie appears more alert and is even causing some "trouble" again. I guess just like people, cats don't always react the same to different meds. His glucose levels are still not under good control but I am monitoring and adjusting doses slowly every 4 or 5 days. My vet is looking into the Trilostane dosing for cats and we will probably give that a try. She is rather fascinated with this since most vets will never encounter Cushing's in a cat.

All I really care about is quality time for Tuxie. I am giving him extra Vit E and B12 and of course the bone broth and it seems to have helped him be a bit more perky, so for the present all is good.

I really appreciate your help and am so grateful that you chose to continue with this discussion. I know how hard it must be for you to go back over experiences and I am sure that it must make you miss your Tink all the more. Tink was a lucky furkid to have had such loving parents.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
No, the vet didn't have anything to say about medications. I found a few on line that claimed to be for cats, but we didn't try any. We had medications for the treatments of symptoms, but not directly for cushings. There was much more information about dogs than cats. The glucosamine and vitamins we're all that we tried and she gained a little more energy and strength. But the disease continued to make her weak, especially in her rear legs. We ordered steps for the bed that were extra deep and very sturdy to make it easier. Wish I had better answers for you. It's so sad to remember, but we will never forget how loving she was throughout the last 3 to 4 years.

The most hopeful information came from here.
http://www.animalendocrine.com/endocrine-clinic/overview-of-endocrine-diseases/.     Here's where I read "First of all, Cushing's is a rare disorder of cats, with less than 100 cats ever reported. As in dogs, most cats have the pituitary-dependent form of hyperadrenocorticism, but cortisol-secreting adrenal tumors also occur in cats with some frequency (1,3). Many of these cats develop mild diabetes secondary to insulin resistance. With treatment of the hypercortisolism, the diabetic state may be reversible in cats with Cushing's syndrome." AND
"Recently, we have also had success using medical treatment with trilostane."

You may want to check these sites.     http://www.marvistavet.com/index.html
http://www.2ndchance.info/diabetescat-insulinresistance.pdf
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

Susan Lee is a Pet Channel specialist at www.associatedcontent.com, and writes articles for various other Internet sites. For pet related questions and concerns, you can reach her at ***@****.      Where I read
"Treatment for Cushing’s disease may include the medications mitotane or Trilostane, which reduces hormone production."
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11698319 tn?1420547360


Thank you for your comment. I do use an organic apple cider vinegar to leach the bones and simmer the soup bones for at least 12 hours. I am doing another batch and will continue it tomorrow...I am afraid to leave the stove on at night...so it will end up being simmered for 24 hours in total.

I also have an organic chicken thawing in the fridge so I will be doing a rich chicken broth as well. I think I am doing more cooking for Tuxie than I would bother for myself. The bone broth is very rich in minerals and nutrients and Tuxie really enjoys it so I am happy to do this for him. Anything that helps him to be healthier works for me.
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874521 tn?1424116797
hi, I really can't be of any help to you, I'm glad 2012meme is giving you some tips...

can I just add that when you simmer the pot for bone broth add abt a tbsp of apple cider vinegar,(per 3 qts water) this leaches all the nutrients out of the bones and is very good for them. you can also use a chicken.
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11698319 tn?1420547360

I actually contacted our local university vet school and they have no data and no experience in dealing with a cat with Cushing's. Did your vet ever suggest using any of the medications commonly used to treat dogs with Cushing's? Or did you just supplement with vitamins? I made a pot of bone broth to add to Tuxie's food. It has a lot of vitamins and minerals that could be helpful to him..I hope.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
If you check my profile you will see Tink sitting up like a dog. She continued to do this even while sick. She learned to beg for her food long before  cushings. Other photos are there too, including one where the sunlight shined on her fur. She was mostly Abyssinian. All of our kitties have been rescue cats.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
I really appreciate so many of you commenting on Tink. She lives on in memory and a gold kitty charm hangs on the mirror in our motorhome. She traveled with us for years while we were full time RVers. Our other kitty was so lost for about 6 months without her. At the right time a new friend of ours, a vet, had a lost kitty that needed a home. This new young member of our family has his own lively personality and keeps the other one more active.

For Tuxie I suggest going back through these posts and checking all the recommended sites for more information. I was grateful for the concern and offers of advice from the special people at this site. Being able to talk about Tink with others who understand has been a blessing.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
A vet school is an excellent idea if you are close to one.  My regular vet was unfamiliar with cushings. It was another one who suggested the test for cushings. We also went to an animal opthalmologist about 1.5 hours away. Even researching didn't prepare us for the unpredictable health needs. Tink was a social kitty and had no problems going to the vet (other than needing a litter box at times). She loved being held and talked in whispers and would rub her head on your chin. She was happy, even if uncomfortable at times.
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11698319 tn?1420547360

Thank you for the suggestion. Since Cushing's in cats is so uncommon they may want to be involved in the treatment approach. The only thing I will not do is allow Tuxie to be treated directly by them. Being out and away from home without me for any extended period would kill him faster than the disease. Even the last time I took him out for his ultrasound, he actually peed all down my coat and pants when I went to put him in the carrier.  He is so easily stresses out so I just want to do the minimal outside testing that I can. That is why I won't look at radiation treatment or surgical removal of the adrenal glands. Besides the risks he would have to be in treatment for a minimum of a week, possibly more and there is still no guarantee of success in the end. I can't see putting him through all that..there is just no quality in it.
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152660 tn?1291755571
Have you thought about contacting a vet school?  They are usually more up to date with new research or could possibly give you contact information of someone who might be able to help more.  I have noticed the one I work with is not as up to date with food information, or the students I have spoken to aren't but they have so much other stuff going that it's probably at the bottom of the totem pole.  :)
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11698319 tn?1420547360

Thank you so much for seeing my comment and connecting me with 2012meme. I am so glad to be able to communicate me with someone who has dealt with Cushing's, since it is so uncommon and there is so little information out there for cats. Hopefully I will be able to do the best for my Tuxie and give him as much quality time as possible. Tuxie and his sister Maxie have been my babies for 14 years and have never needed much other than food and love. So now it is my turn to repay Tuxie for all the love and joy he has given me.
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874521 tn?1424116797
So glad Tuxiesmom and 2012meme were able to reach one another...that's part of what makes this site so awesome

I hope with some exchange of info you'll also be able to give Tuxie many more years with you:) .....poor baby, I so understand her fear of the Vet visits, my Opus was the same after enduring years of poking and prodding wth his heart disease, we feel so bad but do it in their best interest, if only they could know that
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874521 tn?1424116797
Just want to make a short comment that it's so good to read you two ladies also make your own cat food!! I too have been for nearly 4 years now, for 2 of my 3 cats(3rd one refuses)
Homemade diets besides being so much more economical are also so much healthier. That way we control what goes into the food and the quality of the protien
Yes Nancy, I too am a follower of cat info.org, marvellous site with solid information on many issues:)
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11698319 tn?1420547360

Thank you so much for your reply. I am so sorry that Tink finally lost her fight, but she obviously had a number of happy years because of your love and care.

My Tuxie was diagnosed only a few months ago and right from the start I knew something was wrong since he was resistant to the insulin. I have been doing homemade food for almost 8 years..grassfed beef and almost no carbs. I had it analyzed and it is better than anything I could buy, even the prescription stuff.

After 3 weeks I changed vets, since the first one only brushed off my concerns. I have done a lot of research on insulin resistance and it was at my urging that the second vet did the Cushing's testings and ultrasound, which confirmed pituitary induced Cushing's. There are so little studies with Cushing's in cats, but I have read a couple where Trilostane (Vetoryl) has been used to help control the cortisol production. This certainly isn't a cure and has some risks, but there is no way I could have the radiation therapy or adrenal gland removals done. Tuxie has always been a very skitterish cat and just freaks out when I have to take him for a vet visit. So I want to do as much home monitoring as I can to avoid stressing him any further.

I am so worried about his skin as it is already showing the thinning signs and when I do his shots he is starting to meow when I pull the skin up.

I will be asking the vet about B12 injections for him and I will ask what other supplements might be of help.

I am so grateful to have found this posting. Cushing's is so rare in cats that there is very little information. The fact that you were able to give Tink those extra years gives me hope for some extra quality time for my Tuxie. He is only 14 and I had really hoped that I would have many more years with him...but only if he has quality time.

Again I am so sorry to hear that Tink has passed, but you did a small miracle by giving her all that extra time.
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Avatar universal
One of my cats is diabetic.  I started making my own cat food when he was diagnosed because it was too expensive to feed all of my cats a prescription diet.  However, most vets will recommend a canned food that is 10% or less carbs and several of the Friskies varieties meet that criteria including most of their pates, flaked tuna and Special Diet varieties.  Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM, is a leading authority on feline nutrition, especially for those with diabetes.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes
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506791 tn?1439842983
Good to "see" you again.  You did good to give Tink those extra years.

Our Hildiekatt lost her battle this year, too.  The diabetes had gone into remission, however, she developed intestinal lymphoma and we sent her to that beautiful meadow at the foot of the rainbow in June, 2 years after her sister was sent for the same illness.
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874521 tn?1424116797
Hi again, Thx you for the very informative reply, I'm sure Tuxiesmom will find that very helpful, as will others who search the site looking for answers.

I'm so sorry little Tink lost her long battle, she put up a brave fight to stay wth you as long as she could. Wth your wonderful care and love she managed a good life for 3 yrs longer than was expected....that's fantastic!!

The only thing I guestion is yr use of friskies, while any canned food is much preferred over dry, I have never read any evidence in favor of this brand, nor have I ever seen evidence that it's low in carbs, can I ask you where you found such info?

Again Thx for your post....and RIP little Tink:(
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4105307 tn?1369531432
I forgot to mention food for Tuxie. We were advised only canned low carb food. No dry food. I found a list comparing different brands. We stayed with Friskies canned, easiest to find nearby and not overly expensive. We fed only after her shot. She easily learned the routine ... Jump up on the dryer and start eating bowl of food, gave the shot (not on the neck but a certain area on the side) mornings one side and evenings the other side, then down on the floor to finish eating. She was so good about it. I imagine Tuxie must be black with cute white markings.
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4105307 tn?1369531432
As you have probably found out, cushings is extremely rare in cats. I hope you have a good vet. Our Tink was first diagnosed with diabetes, then a while later tested for cushings. The diabetes, as I understand, is often triggered by the cushings. Either way, we had started insulin twice a day and had decided we would continue as long as she was a happy cat. Vitamins and glucosamine tablets seemed to help. We gave her FortiFlora, a powder in a packet, for diahrrea as needed. Problems from the cushings disease are unpredictable and different for each cat. This site was very helpful and you will find other owners that reached out to help and provide encouragement (lynn12358 and opus88).

Tink had all the common symptoms...enormous belly, lots of hair loss, extreme thirst and appetite, weak and thin legs, diarrhea once in a while, occasional litter box accidents. We used a Lantus Solarstar pen with human insulin and she didn't mind at all. We treated other things as they came up, growths, bulging eye, abcess in her mouth. Sedation was needed once and she barely recovered from that. We bought stairs for the bed when her legs got too weak to jump. Through it all she was a very loving pet and that is why we continued treatments. We ordered insulin and other items on line to help with expenses. Be sure to keep Karo syrup on hand just in case her blood sugar drops. We learned to do glucose curves. Her dose changed over time.  There are some sites referenced in the past conversations that might help. Unfortunately there are more options for treating dogs than cats.

Sadly, Tink let us know when she was ready to go. Tink went on to heaven Thursday, May 8, 2014 and waits for us at the Rainbow Bridge. If you don't know the story, look it up or ask and I'll send it. We miss her soft whispers and kitty kisses. We had her sweet face with us about 3 years more than would have been expected. Her ashes are in a wooden box to be scattered with ours when our time comes. I wish you and Tuxie many days of happy memories as you work to keep his life comfortable.  That special bond between you and him will always be a blessing.  If I can help please let me know.
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11698319 tn?1420547360
Thank you so much. It has been so hard to get information on Cushing's in cats and I was so hopeful to find out more from someone who actually had a Cushing's cat. I will message her and see how things are going.
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874521 tn?1424116797
hi and welcome, 2012meme hasn't been on the forum since her post in March I will give you a link to send her a private message that should go to her email so hopefully she will see it and give you a reply....good luck

http://www.medhelp.org/private_messages/new?personal_page_id=2873018&recipient_id=4105307
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