5 yr old son adhd/odd

[SHHUGA]

my son has been diagnosed with adhd but is pending further testing from our local childrens hospital, he is a regular 5 yr old boy at home with a few problems that dont seem too bad but at school he is a constant disruption to the students and staff he is hitting , pushing, tackling other children. yelling and arguing with the teachers, he hit kicked at and bit a teacher the day before yesterday, he is now suspended from school for 4 days because of his aggressive behavior. i have tried to take away his favorite things i have tried spankings i really dont know how to disipline him anymore. he seems so confused about why he is doing the things that he is doing and is really upset about not being able to go to school, he tells me that he tries to have a good day and then "something" just messes it up. he is prescribed adderall and it seems to have no effect on him. he only weighs 44lbs and cant get the dosage up'd . he needs some type of punishment but i dont want to punish him for something if he cant control it. or hasnt been taught how to control it. we have talked about what to do when he gets angry IE; counting to 10, walking away. etc...i ask why didnt you do what we discussed he says he forgot to do it. we talk EVERY morning about his behavior and anger and still by 9 or ten the teacher is calling. i dont know what to do. he is on a waiting list for further behavioral testing and conselling.

[Sandman2]

  Oh Lord,  the one thing that ADHD kids need is structure and consistency (ok, maybe thats two things).  He isn't getting either it sounds like - and not your fault.  
  When you finally start seeing the new professional - use their advice to get the others on the same page.  Even if you may not quite agree.  The point being is that it will not you saying what should be done.  It is the doctor who is expensive telling them what has to be done.  And of course it would be even better if you could also drag them down there and he could tell them in person - good luck with that!
  Also the other book I recommended by Ashley is very good.  You could also use that to say this is what professionals recommend.  That way its not coming from you.  
   Oh --- just realized you said" raising the boys", and "how to get the school to put my oldest in special ed."  How old is the oldest?  Have they done any formal testing on him?  Does he have a 504 or an IEP.    Ashley's book has a great section on the school stuff.  I do need just a bit more information before I make any suggestions about what the school can or can not do.
   And by the way, you are exactly right.  All 4 adults have to be on the same page.  This has gotta be driving you nuts!   The sad thing is that this is the time that early intervention is the most successful, and they are losing that chance.  Hopefully, showing them some professional recommendations will help.  By the way, feel free to post over on the ADHD forum and I can respond to you and not take up Shhugas posts.

[CVCoWGRL]

I read "SOS" it was a great book & I tried it for almost a year ... it seemed like it was finally going to work but, then my husband had a "great idea" and desided to let the boys put eachother in time out well that became a game to them after that.... the only other problem I had with SOS was that it said to pick only 1 minor & 1 major behavoir so that they are not in time out ALL the time well, they dont jump on the couch as much but they still do it at least 2 times a day.... anyway, Hopefull this new behavior theropist and pshyciaatrist will be able to LISTON to me and realize that I have tried it all and maybe they will have a better way of dealing with them and help me to have more calm days.  
If somehing does not change around here iether my hubby gets on board WITH ME or the kids dont start to improve I will have no choice but to leave I can't do this ALL by my self and it dont help that I have 3 other adults "raising" the boys too it would help if ALL 4 of us were on the same page on our parenting but noone of us are agreeing on how to handle them ... expessally the father in law he just goes agenst me every chance he gets b/c it IS ME how fun is that huh!!!!!    Do you have any sugestions on how to get the school to put my oldest in  special Ed .. the Meyers ccenter sent a paper to them stating he needs it for the one on one but they refuse to take him out of general classes they have him in speach every tues. for about 20 mins aday but the rest of the time he stays with the general class they have lower the bar so he has to be super bad for him to get other then green which is NOT fair for him or the others in the class he needs to learn to fallow the rules but they basically dont MAKE HIM so he wont hae a melt down (his behavior is now being seen by the school laughs at the teacher , spits at her, and laughs thinking it soooo funny... for him his next step up is he will be hitting and kicking soon ... which I told the princeable "you better NOT suspened him from school b/c I told you what was going on and what is going to starrt happening"  she seys they wont but, wait till he hurts her then the truth will come out!!!!!

[CVCoWGRL]

Yes, and i found one but thier REAL visit doesnot start for a few weeks from now ... there are 3 reasons Y kids become odd or cd  1. a cemical problem in the brain 2. a sertin kind of gene 3. environment    In our house enviorment is like 15% of it b/c I have to live with my hubby which he "has" to live with his paretns and his Father shows & tells the boys they dont have to liston to me in many other ways then just comeing out and seying dont have to liston to me ... the rest of it I am not sure which one but we shall soon find out  

[Sandman2]

    It sounds like he is getting more and more frustrated.  He doesn't realize what he is doing and the school is constantly disciplining him.  And unfortunately, if they don't have much experience in working with ADHD kids (which is not unusual) they won't have a clue what to do.  I would buy an extra copy of the book I recommended to you and give it to the teacher.  You probably are going to have to educate her (which means that you are going to have to start doing a lot of research yourself.)   I think that you really want to sit down with the teacher and maybe principal and do some problem solving.  It may be that you son could attend a shortened day for awhile.  I do think that you need to find out exactly what he is doing at school, so you will be able to make suggestions on how to help him.  I suggest that you go to school and watch him from a distance.  Do let the principal and teacher know about this.  There is a lot that the school can do to help him, but you have got to be able to identify where and when.  Sometimes just the teacher understanding that the child has ADHD and giving the child just a bit more space, learning to use silent or subtle warnings, can make a big difference.
   I am also not surprised that your family doctor has not had much success with meds with your son.  They really are not trained for this type of a case.  And the sad thing is that they really don't have the time (or maybe training) to help the parent deal with the child.  Hopefully, you will be able to make contact with a psychiatrist soon. If you have a choice, go with a pediatric psychiatrist.  Keep in touch.

[Sandman2]

      Wow, that sounds like a really, really new therapist! That's the last thing I would tell a parent if I was trying to get the parent to work with me.
       If you go buy the book, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  You will find a whole section on discipline.  All of her suggestions are very good. There is also another very good book on the use of timeouts.  Its called,  "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark.
  The thing that you need to remember is that you are trying to change a learned behavior.  It doesn't happen overnight!  In fact it will take about 3 weeks of consistent reinforcement to change.  Many times parents give up on timeouts too soon because they expect more immediate results.  The key to working with ADHD kids is structure, immediate consequences or praise, and learning how and when to pick your battles.   Hope this helps a bit.

[CVCoWGRL]

my son was at first diagnosted with the meyers center (its a childrens devlopmental hospital) of a speach problem and ODD  he started school at 4 1/2 (pre-K  middle of the year)   by Kindergarten the school claimed he had adhd  well, after doing a whole bunch of reasurch .........I found out that the meyers center  AND the school where right ..... before the research I was YELLING at the school telling them it was NOT ADHD it was ODD ..... I would tell them to take him out of general pop and put him in special ed( even his Dr at the meyers center said he needed special ed)  ;we head butted alot up until 3 weeks ago LOL   come to find out through my research a child can have just adhd but an ODD child can not JUST have ODD it is most of the time followed by ADHD   so, what you are going through sounds exactly like what I go therough exept the hitting and phisical (ODD stuff) is at the school ,... for my son its at home... so I am wanting to say ODD at school and adhd at home where as MY son its adhd at school and ODD at home ... I try to disapline but it dont work ...as far as school goes I too just talk to him b/c I dont feel like he needs to get punished well after the fact even when he laughs at the teacher or spits at her which is now strating to happen as of last week .. the teacher does not tell me until the end of the school day I dont know when he did it so i just tell him you are not to be spitting or laughing at the teacher she is YOUR BOSS while you are in school just like mommy and daddy are YOUR BOSSES at home got me .. then he'll repeat "got me"   its kinda funny but I dont show him i look reallly stearnly then say "ok thank you, go get changed and dinner will be ready soon" ....it is very diffficult and you have a 6 months waiting hang in there ... I didnt feel hopeless untill about 3 weeks ago one of the new theropists tried to tell me it wa ALL my fault he was ODD.....  basically telling me I was a horible mother.... My son has NEVER been spoiled a day in his life I say NO to EVERYTHING praticlly .... after been told that now I feel hopeless time out does not work, and  spanking .... he laughs at me he LOVES it I think he is going to grow up been one of those guys who LIKES PAIN!!!    I feel for you & I wish you well

[SHHUGA]

HE has had the problems all year but they are getting worse and more violent in nature. He is in kindergarten. He attends a charter school which his sister has attended for a few years and done great! But they don't have a special ed or much experience with this type of problem especially in kindergarten. They are now calling him a liAbility and HAVE to suspend him. He is only seeing his family physician. Until children's hospital can see him for testing. Which has a six month waiting list. I don't know what to do in the mean time. I called many psychiatrists yesterday, waiting on call backs and dealing with the disappointment that comes along with the fact that most of them work through children's hospital and follow the waiting list OR don't take his insurance. The others I'm just waiting for a call back .

[Sandman2]

       I am very glad to see you say that you, "dont want to punish him for something if he cant control it."  That is correct.  Not only that, at his age to punish him for something that happened hours earlier in school is not only a waste of time, it is extremely counter-productive.  What you can do is to reinforce a correct behavior at home so that it carries over to school.  Pick just one thing - maybe hitting or yelling - and work on that.  It will take lots of constant practice, but it will help.  Probably the best thing that you can do is to buy the book (Amazon carries it), "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.   It has a ton of things that will help you work with him, understand him, deal with the schools, etc.  
   His behaviors do sound very much like ADHD - at least in terms of him saying that "something just messes it up".  Its sad.   I do kind of wonder if he has had this problem the whole year at school or has this just recently started?  I would assume he is in kindergarten?
  I don't know what kind of a doctor he saw.  Since it was through the children's hospital (?), I would assume that the doctor would have experience with young ADHD kids.  But if the meds are a problem, it might be worth trying to find a pediatric psychiatrist as they are experts in both the medical and psychological fields.
   Finally, you definitely want to let the school and teacher know that he has been diagnosed with ADHD.  Ask about getting him into special ed or getting a 504 (the book I mentioned will explain this in more detail).  If he was in special ed. with a properly written IEP, they could not be suspending him.   If you have any more questions, I read the posts over at the ADHD forum more consistently if you want to post there.  Best wishes.