I do not think it is fair to assume your younger son is telling an accurate story and to then demonize your older son. That response is troubling on your part. I don't know why your younger son said that--- perhaps he accidentally saw the porn, perhaps he heard his brother say things. But to assume it's all true? Not sure about that. Would a therapist help? That would be my next step. And regardless, loving your older son if he has a problem is part of a mother's job. Treat him with compassion as he deserves it. And if its true . . .
Do you think your older son has been molested? Child on child sex is very often a result of molestation. The child molester often was molested themselves. And perhaps his step dad is the culprit. I say that because often we hate badly what we are. Visceral reactions are often telling of a hidden secret. That could be completely off base but gay people didn't start off by molesting their brothers. They are just attracted to the same sex. Something more is going on here.
I would seek a therapist for both boys and keep your head about you with regards to this. And people are what they are. You and your husband being upset about homosexuality will not stop someone including your son from being gay. He's too young and from what you've written, that doesn't seem like it should be where your head is at as the major concern here. And he also is sexualized with girls (in what he watches and his -girlfriend-).
I have a 12 year old boy and one older. Hang in there and stay calm.
Its hard to write a story when I had so many mixed emotions running through my mind. Its not Dad. Dad works waaayyyy too much and I talk to my boys all the time cuz you never know. Like I stated in my story when my 12yo was 5yo he looked as if he was about to perform oral on his 2yo brother when asked what he was doing he said his counsins do it. So I think I perhaps know a little of where it started from. That was a long time ago. I again had a talk with my son since the whole situation came up. I tried to be careful how I worded things. I wasnt saying he did do it or I actually accused him of it. I basically just said I had to talk to him bcuz my other son, just like you, came to me and I have to protect him, just as I would you. I basically said if you just so happened to "experiment" we dont do those things to our brothers. And "ppl" dont do those things to little kids period. I assured him i didn't accuse him of it but just in case he did do it but forgot, we now learned our lesson and were not going to do that again. He said again that he didnt do nothing like that. I told him okay. I assured him I loved him amd of coirse to come to me if anybody did anything to him. I took just him with me to the grocery store today as we shopped together I found that he was being extra nice to me, making jokes and trying to hold conversations (hes usually the quiet one and doesnt really show too much affection) so to be honest I'm not sure if he was doing that because he felt guilty or I made him happy. I know thats crazy thinking but hey I'm only human. I really do pray and hope that nothing did happen. Its just crazy I dont see whyyygy or howww my 4yo can be so vivid. Or even put the word peepee amd sucking in the same sentence. I just want to know the truth. The hate I had felt in my heart for my 12yo son is no longer there. I just feel bad and i just want to be there for him bcuz somebody else showed him wrong its not his fault. But i still feel like i failed as a parent. I wont disown him for being gay if thats what he chooses in his future. I dont think so though. It's just not how our houshold is ran. Everybody house is different. We have 5 men running around, its alot of testosterone..lol.. I do feel better as i cried allllll night long. But i still dont know the truth. Should i just leave it alone or should I seek therapy? I dont want to "fix" something thats not broken. I dont want to push something or put labels on something that maybe happened once or a long time ago or may never happened at all. ?????
In my opinion, this has nothing to do with being gay, but a lot to do with being 12 and experimenting. It is not that unusual....particularly among siblings and I speak from experience. And yes, the more you bring this up to your 4 year old, the bigger deal you make of it, the bigger deal it will become.
What is important is respect for others and knowing when to say NO and respecting that. There are books aimed at the 4 year old age group to help with saying NO. A good example is https://www.amazon.com/Said-Guide-Keeping-Private-Parts/dp/1878076493/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1878076493&pd_rd_r=H2RBV6ZXEHKYRRPKWRW3&pd_rd_w=WAGya&pd_rd_wg=AQ6QX&psc=1&refRID=H2RBV6ZXEHKYRRPKWRW3
and other book examples are given on that link.
And you have done nothing wrong! Kids experiment.
Both sexes will. And with the influence of the internet, its gotta be actually kind of tough on the kids to see all of that */?!! and not wonder about it.
Actually, if your husband had brothers, he might have some experience with this. So it might be something you could bring up to him? But, if you think he would over react - then probably not? But, as I earlier said....I highly doubt that this is any sign of being gay.
What you can do is to make sure your 12 year old knows that you depend on him to watch and protect your family. Give him responsibilities appropriate to his age.
Oh, specialmom had a good point. It is possible that you eldest has a friend that has put a few ideas into his head.
And, if you are really having trouble dealing with all of this, then get some therapy for yourself. You just might need some help in understanding this from a different perspective, and how to deal with not only your emotions, but your kids actions. Because, ya, you got a lot of males running around. I really do like the way you responded to your 12 year old in the post after specialmom's reply!
Perhaps in a very non judgemental way include the 8 year old in the reading of the book I mentioned above. And then since these books need to be read many times and practiced, get the 12 year old involved.
I hope this helps. Being a 72 year old male who has spent a lifetime working with kids - I may be coming at this from a different way. But, I think I have some valid points. Best wishes.
Sigh......I wasnt going to comment since you got such great comments/advice from other parents. but, I believe your son did do it. I myself got molested when I was younger for 12 whole years by my father and noone cared to notice and when they did turned a blind eye to it. I also has sex with my brother as a child. I'm saying all of this to say that 4 years old's dont just make up stuff like that out of thin air its time people stop taking kids for liars all the time. Your 12 year old did do it, like your 4 year old said. ....and please do not expect your 12 year old to every admit to that....every...why would he? He is of the age to know it is very wrong. Years ago when he was 5 years old when you walked in on him attempting to suck your 2 year old's pee pee, thats when you should have digged more and done more to nip it in the bud. Stopping your kids from going over to his cousins house isnt going to stop the problem because your 5 year old at the time was exposed to it and a door is opened in him sexually. Its like a stream, which starts small and in time grows into a bigger river and then into the sea. He might had only seen the act of oral sex or had it done to him or he did it to his cousins. At 5 he would have told you everything if you had asked....they done keep anything much at that age, but now he's 12 and he wont speak much. My other concern is your 8 year old, cause if he did it to your 12 year old he would have done it to the 8 year old too, they are closer in age. But he too wont say anything either at that age, he wouldn't out his brother. Dont let anyone make you feel guilty for believing your 4 year old mam, you sounded like you started to doubt him, you are mother of them both and if your 4 year old tells you something with that much details, he must have gotten it from somewhere.......thank God for the candidness of that age group or you would have never known.
Love and pray for your 12 year old, its not his fault he just needs help with something he was exposed to and is still probably working out and he is probably wondering himself if he is gay. Thats a lot of stress for a 12 year old. He might not be, but his exposure to it will steer him there.
......but always put strict moral boundaries so they know what you stand for. The age difference is what makes it so bad, 12 and 4....or if it was last year it was 11 and 3......that is molestation not exploration.
but like i said, pray for him and help him......i would have been a molester myself if i didnt have strong values placed in me by my mother and spiritual guidance and lots of prayers.
It's not your sons responsibility to set examples for your other children, it's your responsibility to set examples. The parents responsibility.
Striking children is abuse, and will never, ever correct a situation. Based on the things you're saying in this single paragraph, I suspect there's more abuse coming from you toward your children. And possibly your husband as well.
It's very possible the oldest son, or ANY of the children, were exposed to sexual abuse, and now at least one if them is passing it on. That behavior is EXTREEEEMELY common in child sexual abuse victims.
My recommendation is therapy for the entire family. Children AND parents.
He's testing the limits as well as experimenting in sex with the only "partners" with whom he feels both "comfortable" and "non-threatening" to his personal views of his own masculinity.
You didn't "go wrong" anywhere, and you certainly haven't failed as a parent (it is normal to feel overwhelmed by your children from time to time while they're growing into the adults they will be) - he did what most boys his own age are doing or have already started doing long before you caught your 12-year-old "in flagrante delicto". Make sure your husband is out of the house and sit down with your 12-year-old and ASK him tactfully and as NON-JUDGEMENTALLY as you can what is going on in his life. Quietly tell him that it was not the right thing to do to involve his younger brothers in his sexual experimentation - AND THAT'S ALL THIS WAS - THIS TIME! Also, tell you do expect him to be an example to his younger brothers as they get older.
If you accuse him outright of being a homosexual, you're going to make him even more secretive about doing "things" like this than he was before. And, at twelve, he may not know whether or not he's "gay" - this may be just sexual experimentation - after all, you said he'd being at videos of girls on the Internet.
Please seek help. You are confusing religious beliefs with the real world and are upset because no one is living up to YOUR expectations.
You need help. Not your sons.
I know I'm late, but I have advice.
First of all, I'm the third eldest of 10 children and I take care of my younger siblings alot (I was also a daycare worker until coronavirus). I'm not going to say they're exact ages, but I have experience with children around the ages you said they were.
Second, your children were probably exposed from their cousins, and it just spread through to the younger ones. Or if you're letting them walk around the store alone (or just letting them go alone in general) they could've been exposed there. Which leads to number two: kids around the age of four lie commonly. Now I'm not saying that they're liars and you shouldn't believe anything they say, but if they're exposed to that kind of thing, even if they just saw it happen or heard it, they like to make up stories when they remember or are reminded. I had a friend taken to court because the kid he was babysitting said he looked at his peepee when he was taking a shower (my friend, not the kid). Also, I have worked with kids around that age and when they learned to not let anyone touch their peepee they started immediately saying things like "Gorgie pig (a cartoon character) touched my peepee!" "So and so (I asked their dad and it's apparently their imaginary friend cat) touched my peepee when I was taking a nap!" "Yeah, he touched my peepee when I was eating!" I believed them at first and so (instead of putting ideas in their head) I was like "What did he do?" and they answered with two completely different and physically impossible answeres. Long story short, he was probably exposed and started a story based on what he knew.
Third: Like you said the kind of language he was using is very common in boys his age. And, believe it or not, the things he was searching are becoming common. He was probably curious about those things. As for playing with his peepee: I haven't met a single boy who hasn't done that, even at a later age. He may have done it in front of his siblings because he felt comfortable with them and they weren't strangers, or because he wasn't taught otherwise. For the porn: how many times have you told him that was wrong? If he isn't taught that something is wrong, you shouldn't punish him for it (this goes for him playing with his peepee, too). Make sure you tell him it's wrong and explain why (and tell him if it's based on your opinion or if its fact). Only a few more things: Please, please, do not hate your son for being gay, especially since you don't even know if it's true or not. Criticizing it will just make him more secretive. I doubt you can tell from the age of 12 anyway. A lot of children that I've seen that age change their sexuality a lot and aren't certain until a few years later. If he does come out as gay, look at it from his eyes. He doesn't think he's he's done anything wrong, he just prefers a specific gender, and your'e disowning him for it. If you strongly disapprove, you don't have to support it, just don't treat him differently for it. Also, if you want to find out what your husband would do, ask him as casually as you can. Just say something like "I keep hearing things about homosexuals. What would you do if one of our children were gay?" The way I found out what my parents thought was asking them what they thought about homosexuality with a poker face. I also didn't tell them my opinion first so they wouldn't change it based on that. One last thing: You can possibly get the truth from your oldest. Ask him about it, but act like you're on his side, even if you're not. Study how he reacts carefully. You can look up plenty of tips.
Sorry, this was a lot longer than I wanted. Congrats if you read this far! Hope I helped!