Covid Home kit vs Kaiser Testing

[Cardinals110]

Hello Community,

I have some confusion, my parents (no symptoms, they dont see no one and have left the house) since April. They decided to take a saliva test, the one that gets mailed home then dropped off to a location. When they got their results, my mom detected but my dad not detected. They got worried and 2 days later went to Kaiser per their Dr, to retest. They just got results and both negative. Has this happen to anyone? Also should I be worried for my folks? Thank you!

[copyman]

Forgot to post this interesting peer review where there are benefits of treating the elderly in nursing homes with D3. There are many studies & reviews like this.  A simple harmless vitamin that is dirt cheap.  Can't hurt to take it to prevent & possibly treat? But again have to decide for yourself. Do your own research, Knowledge is power!

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/new-study-found-80-percent-of-covid-19-patients-were-vitamin-d-deficient#Vitamin-D-and-COVID-19-recovery

One excerpt from article:

Vitamin D and COVID-19 recovery
“One approach is to identify and treat vitamin D deficiency, especially in high-risk individuals such as the elderly, patients with comorbidities, and nursing home residents, who are the main target population for the COVID-19,” said study co-author José L. Hernández, PhD, of the University of Cantabria in Santander, Spain.

He said people at high risk for COVID-19 — older adults, those with underlying conditions, and people in nursing homes — can be treated with vitamin D.

“Vitamin D treatment should be recommended in COVID-19 patients with low levels of vitamin D circulating in the blood since this approach might have beneficial effects in both the musculoskeletal and the immune system,” Hernández said in a statement.

[copyman]

here is just one example from a top doctor website regarding D3 & covid. This confirms the importance of D3 & covid. there are pleanty more doctor & scientists reviews online. 80% of covid patients are low in D3. Those are good enough odds for me to take it.

"https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/study-finds-over-80-percent-of-covid19-patients-have-vitamin-d-deficiency"

guitar rox, sounds like you have a good doctor knowing the importance of D3, especially when it comes to Covid.

As far as doctors getting kick backs (maybe a poor choice of words) it's not like the old days with trips, concerts, etc. after FDA stopped it. But I have 2 nephews in the Pharm business. They bring food to doctors offices in order to see the doctor for 5 mins a month and few times a year have lavish dinners where my nephews have to "briefly" speak about their drug. This is what I meant by kick backs. This is enough incentive for docs to write more scripts! sad but true.

[mkh9]

What type of test is the mail in tests? I believe they probably use PCR (Molecular test) at Kaiser as it is  a very sensitive and specific test. At home tests may be an ELISA, test which is not as sensitive. However, as mentioned above,  I would trust the PCR test . The only reason that would not be accurate is either a blatant mix up (which happens but not that often), or the swab collection wasn't good. The swab collection is usually the biggest problem.
mkh9

[Paxiled]

Again, this isn't what the emergency room docs are reporting on the news.  They are reporting tests need to be repeated.  It could be because viral load hasn't reached testing levels yet.  Could be a bad test.  They really don't know why, they just know when someone has symptoms of covid assume it is whether the test is positive or not and eventually it will be.

[copyman]

Like I said ONLY my opinion and this will be the last respond to you. Your are not a doctor either and entitled to your opinion as well.  

No I don't know more than doctors on front lines but I do know doctors will hand you a piece of paper that you are positive and send you on your way with NOTHING, NO hope. Most Doctors don't believe in supplements. Just within the last several years  they started to test for D3 when it was known for years D3 was very important to overall health. They would much rather write you a prescription and get their kick back from the pharm companies. I'll say again 5,000 IU's is necessary for "most" to get to a healthy level than reduce to 2, 0000-3,000 IU's.

Each person has to make their own decisions. I can only tell you what kept 5 people I know, including myself from having severe symptoms and ending up on a vent in hospital!

[Sara_MHModerator]

Just a reminder that we do not recommend dosing amounts here as that is between an individual and their healthcare provider.  We mostly just share our own experiences and no one member is an expert over another.  

[GuitarRox]

Funny you should say that, my doctor JUST recommended vitamin D3 for me!  The supplement world is full of opinions and a lot of misleading literature. There are no true experts because it is a highly unregulated industry.  Although, doctors do not get kick backs from pharmaceutical companies.  That part is untrue.  

From what I have read, those who have mild, moderate to severe reactions unless they have a pre existing risk factor is pretty random as to who will have what.  Not had covid yet.  Don't want it.  

[copyman]

Moderator: I just read my first post and I did recommend a dosage amount. Sorry about that. Should of been "this is what I take" as I know every one is different.

[Paxiled]

Actually, copyman is right, docs do receive value from pharmaceutical companies.  This is true.  It's not in the form of kickbacks, it's much more subtle than that, such as conferences that just happen to take place free in such obvious places for medical conferences such as Aruba and the like.  Or free samples.  Or just lots of free stuff.  Taken out to lunch.  It doesn't take much if you repeat it over and over, it adds up.  Virtually every physician and dentist is at least in part being paid by their suppliers.  Now, that was also true for me when I managed health food stores.  I got a lot of free samples and T shirts, but of course the money wasn't there to send me to Aruba.  Bummer.  When the FDA tried to change its rules on conflict of interest, it found it couldn't find enough experts to put on its review panels because virtually everyone was somehow paid by the pharmaceutical industry.  So not kickbacks, but definitely they are being paid.  And it's also true they are hostile to supplements because it's competition to them.  The FDA is also hostile to supplements.  But Vitamin D isn't one of the things they are hostile to anymore, virtually every doc is now recommending supplementation with it.  Of course, originally, because docs are so ignorant in this area they were giving people synthetic D, which we can't absorb.  That's why the doses were so high originally.  Now they all know to prescribe D3.  Which is why the officially recommended dose -- remember, there are officially recommended dosages out there, not ones we're making up here -- is a lot lower than what was suggested.  So to be clear, I never meant to suggest in any way copyman should stop doing what he's doing if it's working.  My only issue was to be careful what we recommend to others, because a high dose of something might not be as safe for them.  Peace, all.

[Paxiled]

And let me add, I have been supplementing with D3 for years, as has my wife, per our doctors' recommendation.  This is an old story.

[copyman]

Hey pax, good points you make.  I wanted to add when the FDA change the rules Pharm co's always find a way around it. Basically only thing that changed was there are no more novelties like pens, etc  advertising the drugs being given out. Other than that business as usual. Heck, I was golfing with one of my nephews and overheard his conversation with a doctor where he asked the doctor if he could write 2 more scripts that month so my nephew could get a bonus. I told my nephew this was wrong and he told me this is normal procedure. That really woke me up to how bad the whole Pharm thing is. Really sad but just add it to how screwed up this world is!

Take care.

[copyman]

Although the Covid tests are fairly accurate I would still always retest. Especially the rapid tests. I've heard of many pos & neg tests being wrong. Heck they are so screwed up here in NJ with many urgent cares just doing covid tests. You make appointment, go at that time and wait in car, they call you and tell you to come to side door, swab you and tell you to wait in car for 20 mins for result, call you in 20 mins and tell you to come to door for the paper with results. So impersonal you feel like a leper.
I even had a friend that waited  outside for over 2 hours and they never called him so he left angry. Next morning he gets a call he was positive! Problem was he never got the test!
I think with everyone trying to make money on this "new" disease with rapid tests there will be plenty of mistakes.

If you want 100% true Covid test results get a PCR blood test. This will not only tell if Pos / Neg it will also show the viral load.

Anyway to answer your question I would rely on your parents 2nd test and they are fine. If you never had Covid test yourself for the "antibodies", you may of had Covid and didn't even know it. The antibody test is a blood drawer and very accurate. If you test Pos for the antibodies you should be able to visit your parents without worrying about giving it to them. Also make sure they are taking 5000 IU's of D3 & Zinc everyday as a preventive measure. I believe D3 is the most important thing to prevent or after you get it to lessen the severity.
I will be posting a cocktail of supplements that has work for me and family members after we got Covid.

[copyman]

Just to be clear 5000 IU's of the D3 not the Zinc! Just the normal dose on bottle for zinc

[Paxiled]

I'm not sure a regular zinc supplement has any immune system effect, really.  Be careful about supplementing with zinc if you take multiple supplements, because it is toxic in large doses.  But the zinc that helps the immune system is either taken sublingually or injected, not just a normal mineral supplement.  And it's only to be used for short-term situations in those forms to prevent toxicity.  D3 at that dose can also be a problem, especially if you're out in the sun regularly and don't need to supplement.  1000 is probably the most that is safe to take every day unless a doc has said to take more for a short period of time.  What you might do when you're sick is a lot different than what you should do when you're trying to prevent getting sick.  As for testing, none of them are 100% accurate.  The most revealing interview I've seen was from an emergency room doc who said they test 4 times before they're sure, and that's with the most reliable PCR tests.  Sometimes it's too soon for the viral load to rise to a level that gets detected.  Sometimes the test is from a company that makes bad tests.  Sometimes stuff just happens.  The antibody tests are even more inaccurate, because the FDA in the beginning approved everything and a lot of them turned out to be completely bogus.  They did take another look but the cat was out of the bag and hard to reel all of them back in.  So you do need to test more than once if you had a contact that was a likely exposure.  The saliva tests are not very accurate.  Sometimes the inaccuracy isn't the test's fault, it's the way it's done or processed, but that doesn't matter to us.  

[copyman]

I can only tell you what has worked for my family members and me personally when we got infected with Covid. It is my "opinion only". We all took 50 mg zinc, 5000 IU's of D3 which is NOT harmful, NAC (respiratory support), & garlic extract. If you start this regiment at first symptoms it "should" lessen severity. Provided no other serious comorbidity.  

Most people are low in D3 and need at least 5000 IU's to get to recommended level. There has been data that shows 80% of people that end up in hospital with Covid are low in D3. That alone is good enough for me to take D3 but I have been taking 5,000 IU's for more than 3 years to maintain  40-60 ng/ml level. Heck I know some people that take 10,000 IU's to get to healthy level.  

Sorry to disagree but the PCR antibody test done with blood draw is very accurate. Can't even compare a rapid test to a blood draw PCR test! I've had many PCR tests for other viruses and even one that measured down to 2 virons!

Again this is just my opinion and none of the supplements I suggested are harmful in any way. Better than being told you are positive and nothing they can do for you. Please do your own research and make your own decision.

Best of luck

[Paxiled]

It's okay to say you have an opinion, but having one and posting recommendations to others takes it away from just being your private opinion and turns it into a public instruction.  You are stating something as fact that is not fact, and therefore not really stating an opinion, right?  That amount of D isn't at all necessary to get what is necessary.  The official recommendation I believe is for 800IU for someone who doesn't get out in the sun enough and is testing low.  That can translate to 1000.  Nobody needs 5000 unless they are not absorbing the D because of a liver problem or other problem absorbing fats.  I did say that what might help when you're sick is different than what one should do to prevent getting sick, so it's okay by me that you chose to do what you did.  You were sick.  But you're recommending it to people who aren't.  And yes, it can be harmful, and again, no, you don't need that much to get up to normal level.  D is pretty easy for most people to get, you just have to go out in peak sunlight without covering yourself with clothing and for almost everyone that'll do it.  Problem is, we don't do that anymore, as we are indoors most of the time working or otherwise, and we have been told by the medical community to cover up in peak sun to avoid skin cancer.  So yeah, we've turned ourselves into D deprived people, but no, we don't need that much.  This isn't a matter of opinion.  I'm also not sure how you'd know most people are low in D, as most people don't report that to anyone.  As for garlic, it has no effect at all on viruses, so while it's a great supplement for certain things such as helping along with a host of other things to keep cholesterol levels even and to fight fungus or bacterial problems, it just doesn't fight viruses.  There are herbs that do, though the effect isn't super strong, but that's not one of them.  As for saying they are not harmful in any way, again, untrue.  Zinc is toxic in large doses, and if you're duplicating sources of it you can get that without knowing it.  Too much D can be a problem.  Too much of anything that is fat soluble can be a problem.  Again, I'm perfectly fine with you doing this for yourself, and I'm glad you believe it worked.  Belief is a strong emotion and when we're sick we need belief.  But belief isn't fact.  A lot of people take mega doses of nutrients, and for most, it's probably not harming them, but that's no consolation for those who are harmed.  Better to just take an amount the body can actually absorb and utilize than give it so much it has to just flush it out because it can't use it.  No problem for the final time you doing this, just take more care in what you suggest to others.  Peace.

[Paxiled]

Oh, and as for the testing, I guess you know more than the doctors who are on the front lines fighting this virus, because they are reporting lots and lots of inaccurate results.  

[Paxiled]

I guess I should add a specific problem with too much D taken for a long period of time just to show one aspect.  Vitamin D potentiates calcium.  But it doesn't equally potentiate magnesium.  If calcium grows too much it breaks the electrical balance it has with magnesium, which can lead to osteoporosis and other bone problems.  I didn't really want to get into details, folks are better served by doing their own homework once an issue is raised here, but again, just as using too much dairy gives you too much calcium at the expense of magnesium, so does taking too much D.  Just one example of my caution on this.  Peace.