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13-year-old boy carrying pellet gun shot dead by police in California
Police in Santa Rosa say they thought the replica firearm the teenager was carrying as he walked to a friend's house was real
Hundreds of people marched through the northern Californian town of Santa Rosa on Wednesday night to demand justice for the death of a 13-year-old boy shot by police while carrying a pellet gun to his friend’s house.
Andy Lopez was killed the day after a 12-year-old boy shot dead a maths teacher and himself at a school in the neighbouring state of Nevada. Two Santa Rosa sheriff’s deputies said they opened fire after repeatedly asking Andy to drop the replica assault rifle, which they believed to be real. The teenager was declared dead at the scene on Tuesday.
According to the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office, the deputies were driving by when they spotted the teenager walking “with what appeared to be some type of rifle”. Lopez had his back to the officers, who did not realise he was a boy. They called for backup and, they said, ordered him twice to drop the gun. The teenager was around 20-30ft away when he turned towards them. “He was holding the weapon in his left hand,” said Lt Paul Henry of Santa Rosa Police. “He began to turn toward his right in the direction of the deputy, and he moved the gun toward the deputy, and the deputy’s mindset was that he was fearful he would be shot.”
One eyewitness recounted the incident to the news station KGO-TV. “He pulled over to the kid walking and he just opened the door and shot him, three shots,” Ismael Mondragon said.
The boy’s father, Rodrigo Lopez, told reporters his son had borrowed the replica AK-47 from a friend, and was walking to the other boy’s home to return it. “It’s not right what they did to my son,” Mr Lopez said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/13yearold-boy-carrying-pellet-gun-shot-dead-by-police-in-california-8900696.html
Hundreds of people marched through the northern Californian town of Santa Rosa on Wednesday night to demand justice for the death of a 13-year-old boy shot by police while carrying a pellet gun to his friend’s house.
Andy Lopez was killed the day after a 12-year-old boy shot dead a maths teacher and himself at a school in the neighbouring state of Nevada. Two Santa Rosa sheriff’s deputies said they opened fire after repeatedly asking Andy to drop the replica assault rifle, which they believed to be real. The teenager was declared dead at the scene on Tuesday.
According to the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office, the deputies were driving by when they spotted the teenager walking “with what appeared to be some type of rifle”. Lopez had his back to the officers, who did not realise he was a boy. They called for backup and, they said, ordered him twice to drop the gun. The teenager was around 20-30ft away when he turned towards them. “He was holding the weapon in his left hand,” said Lt Paul Henry of Santa Rosa Police. “He began to turn toward his right in the direction of the deputy, and he moved the gun toward the deputy, and the deputy’s mindset was that he was fearful he would be shot.”
One eyewitness recounted the incident to the news station KGO-TV. “He pulled over to the kid walking and he just opened the door and shot him, three shots,” Ismael Mondragon said.
The boy’s father, Rodrigo Lopez, told reporters his son had borrowed the replica AK-47 from a friend, and was walking to the other boy’s home to return it. “It’s not right what they did to my son,” Mr Lopez said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/13yearold-boy-carrying-pellet-gun-shot-dead-by-police-in-california-8900696.html
"He was holding the weapon in his left hand. He began to turn toward his right in the direction of the deputy, and in so doing he moved the gun toward the deputy, and the deputy’s mindset was that he was fearful he would be shot,” Lt Paul Henry of Santa Rosa police said. "
There will be no further questions.....
There will be no further questions.....
While I agree that the boy (13 is really still a child) was wrong and *not* smart to be carrying those toy guns and that it does lessen the cirime so to speak, of the cops since they likely went into that training mode with shots of adrenaline, I think we can all agree that the police overreacted and do bear some responsibility for that.
The consequences? I have no idea, retraining,therapy etc.
I do not jump to the conclusion that these are bad cops but they made a serious mistake they will carry all their lives. It would benefit society and future officers to be better prepared for such possible scenarios.
The consequences? I have no idea, retraining,therapy etc.
I do not jump to the conclusion that these are bad cops but they made a serious mistake they will carry all their lives. It would benefit society and future officers to be better prepared for such possible scenarios.
“He was holding the weapon in his left hand. He began to turn toward his right in the direction of the deputy, and in so doing he moved the gun toward the deputy, and the deputy’s mindset was that he was fearful he would be shot,” Lt Paul Henry of Santa Rosa police said.
But the boy’s father, Rodrigo Lopez said the shooting made no sense.
Officers in the city of Santa Rosa say they opened fire after Andy Lopez refused orders to drop the rifle which they believed to be real.
“My son lost his life. He’s not alive any more just because of the mistake of somebody.”
The replica gun had belonged to a friend, he said.
The sheriff’s office said a plastic handgun had also been found in the boy’s waistband.
Witness Brian Zastrow told the Santa Rosa Press Democrat he heard seven shots.
“First, I heard a single siren and within seconds I heard seven shots go off, sounded like a nail gun,” he said.
One man who saw the events unfold said the shooting was over in an instant.
“He pulled over to the kid walking and he just opened the door and shot him, three shots,” Ismael Mondragon told KGO-TV.
Police Lt Dennis O’Leary said the deputies had been placed on administrative leave pend
Read more: http://www.bellenews.com/2013/10/24/world/us-news/andy-lopez-13-year-old-boy-carrying-replica-assault-rifle-shot-dead-by-santa-rosa-police/#ixzz2jX1DZmgL
But the boy’s father, Rodrigo Lopez said the shooting made no sense.
Officers in the city of Santa Rosa say they opened fire after Andy Lopez refused orders to drop the rifle which they believed to be real.
“My son lost his life. He’s not alive any more just because of the mistake of somebody.”
The replica gun had belonged to a friend, he said.
The sheriff’s office said a plastic handgun had also been found in the boy’s waistband.
Witness Brian Zastrow told the Santa Rosa Press Democrat he heard seven shots.
“First, I heard a single siren and within seconds I heard seven shots go off, sounded like a nail gun,” he said.
One man who saw the events unfold said the shooting was over in an instant.
“He pulled over to the kid walking and he just opened the door and shot him, three shots,” Ismael Mondragon told KGO-TV.
Police Lt Dennis O’Leary said the deputies had been placed on administrative leave pend
Read more: http://www.bellenews.com/2013/10/24/world/us-news/andy-lopez-13-year-old-boy-carrying-replica-assault-rifle-shot-dead-by-santa-rosa-police/#ixzz2jX1DZmgL
Okay, sorry Glass, my point was that I had boys, tried to keep them from playing with toy guns and found out it wasn't possible.
Brice, How can you say he didn't listen to the cops when all accounts say he was turning to do just that when he was shot down dead. He was killed within 10 seconds of the time they stopped the car. In fact the one deputy was still in the car, it happened so fast.
Check out this one for more on the kid killing cop:
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/10/31/man-says-sonoma-deputy-who-shot-boy-pointed-gun-at-him-during-traffic-stop/
Brice, How can you say he didn't listen to the cops when all accounts say he was turning to do just that when he was shot down dead. He was killed within 10 seconds of the time they stopped the car. In fact the one deputy was still in the car, it happened so fast.
Check out this one for more on the kid killing cop:
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/10/31/man-says-sonoma-deputy-who-shot-boy-pointed-gun-at-him-during-traffic-stop/
So wait a second, are you saying that the next time a cop sees someone walking down the street with a gun, its no big deal? The cop has no right to question this individual? You mentioned above about a scenario that you were in... did you listen to the cop or did you just do your own thing? Did you point the gun at the cop?
The kid did commit a crime as soon as he didn't listen to directives.
And as for the war vet comment. You are aware that a lot of vets get hired on with PD's and SO's everywhere and way more often than not, they turn out to be model cops?
Yeah, this could have been PTSD and it could have been that the kid didn't pay any attention to a cop. That is kind of common these days.
The kid did commit a crime as soon as he didn't listen to directives.
And as for the war vet comment. You are aware that a lot of vets get hired on with PD's and SO's everywhere and way more often than not, they turn out to be model cops?
Yeah, this could have been PTSD and it could have been that the kid didn't pay any attention to a cop. That is kind of common these days.
"BTW: If I'm not mistaken my friend, you have girls ?? I had both."
I don't understand your point or even if that was directed to me, but I to have both.
In the State of California, it is illegal to sell or loan a BB gun to a Minor. If the childs parents knew he loaned the gun to the kid that got killed, don't be surprised if charges are brought against them.
I don't understand your point or even if that was directed to me, but I to have both.
In the State of California, it is illegal to sell or loan a BB gun to a Minor. If the childs parents knew he loaned the gun to the kid that got killed, don't be surprised if charges are brought against them.
If toy guns were all bright colored and looked like Spaceranger ray guns there wouldn't be a problem.
And I beg to differ about who buys what for kids, especially when that kid is 13.
I had carried a toy rifle in Golden Gate park. It belonged to my son's friend. And a cop did stop and talked with me. We laughed and they day went on.
However all this is moot.
Cops should not shoot first and ask questions later.
And even if it was a real gun and he was an adult, what if he'd just purchased it and was walking home ?? A crime was not being committed.
I've seen real guns for sale at garage sales.
The kid had the toy gun in his left hand. The cop called out, and he turned to the right. The cops shot him dead~ all within 10 seconds.The kid was probably turning to see why or if they were talking to him.
AND the cop was an ex- Iraqi war vet. Could have been PTS.
BTW: If I'm not mistaken my friend, you have girls ?? I had both.
And I beg to differ about who buys what for kids, especially when that kid is 13.
I had carried a toy rifle in Golden Gate park. It belonged to my son's friend. And a cop did stop and talked with me. We laughed and they day went on.
However all this is moot.
Cops should not shoot first and ask questions later.
And even if it was a real gun and he was an adult, what if he'd just purchased it and was walking home ?? A crime was not being committed.
I've seen real guns for sale at garage sales.
The kid had the toy gun in his left hand. The cop called out, and he turned to the right. The cops shot him dead~ all within 10 seconds.The kid was probably turning to see why or if they were talking to him.
AND the cop was an ex- Iraqi war vet. Could have been PTS.
BTW: If I'm not mistaken my friend, you have girls ?? I had both.
"Talk to the manufacturers about that."
It's not the Manufacturers that are buying them for their kids. That would be their Parents.
It's not the Manufacturers that are buying them for their kids. That would be their Parents.
I'm not okay with anyone having an AK47 but they do. In fact there was this group running around a couple of years ago wanting to carry firearms into Starbucks and such.
This morning's radio talk show said he was walking down the street to a nearby field where the local kids often use their BB guns.
The cop has been quoted as saying he can't remember if he identified himself as a cop or not.
If this cop lived in the neighborhood or maybe even in the same town, he'd know that was where the kids shot their bbguns. In fact, if he lived in the neighborhood, he might even know these kids.
Glass~ This was a 13 year old boy with a BB gun. I agree they shouldn't look like assault weapons. Talk to the manufacturers about that.
This morning's radio talk show said he was walking down the street to a nearby field where the local kids often use their BB guns.
The cop has been quoted as saying he can't remember if he identified himself as a cop or not.
If this cop lived in the neighborhood or maybe even in the same town, he'd know that was where the kids shot their bbguns. In fact, if he lived in the neighborhood, he might even know these kids.
Glass~ This was a 13 year old boy with a BB gun. I agree they shouldn't look like assault weapons. Talk to the manufacturers about that.
Wait, are you saying that you are okay with a kid walking around with an AK47? When you say the words "in a field" I think it puts my above case more into perspective. "In a field" to me conjures up the idea of witnessing this from afar. That being the case, nobody could tell if that was a real gun or not.
If this kid was not walking around with something that looked like an AK, my guess is he'd be eating cereal and watching cartoon this morning.
If this kid was not walking around with something that looked like an AK, my guess is he'd be eating cereal and watching cartoon this morning.
“So where were the adults?”
I guess they are out buying their kids replicas of Assault Weapons so they act shocked and innocent when it causes the Death of a Child.
I guess they are out buying their kids replicas of Assault Weapons so they act shocked and innocent when it causes the Death of a Child.
I know that all reports say he was walking through an empty field. When all reports claim the same thing, I do tend to believe them.
So, yes other than the fact I wasn't there to eyewitness the kid walking along, II do know the kid was walking through an empty field.
This happened about an hour or so from where I live and the local news has been all over it.
So, yes other than the fact I wasn't there to eyewitness the kid walking along, II do know the kid was walking through an empty field.
This happened about an hour or so from where I live and the local news has been all over it.
Thanks for the link teko. As I assumed, that gun looks very much like the big bad assault weapons everyone is a afraid of. It looks almost identical to an AK 47, one of the models that strikes fear in the hearts of everyone who knows nothing about guns.
This shooting could also have been avoided other ways as well. I listed some of them above, but they are no good to some people. As real and rational as they are, they are discounted.
This cop may very well have been wrong... but there is a guarantee in this. If this kid had not been walking down the street with what looks like an AK 47, he never would have drawn any attention to himself. (That is an undeniable fact.)
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ak47-e1363724603451.png&imgrefurl=http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/19/no-one-needs-an-ak-47-either/&h=825&w=1920&sz=1372&tbnid=ytZi-dwTeYwM
I hope that link works.... can you tell the difference???
This shooting could also have been avoided other ways as well. I listed some of them above, but they are no good to some people. As real and rational as they are, they are discounted.
This cop may very well have been wrong... but there is a guarantee in this. If this kid had not been walking down the street with what looks like an AK 47, he never would have drawn any attention to himself. (That is an undeniable fact.)
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ak47-e1363724603451.png&imgrefurl=http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/19/no-one-needs-an-ak-47-either/&h=825&w=1920&sz=1372&tbnid=ytZi-dwTeYwM
I hope that link works.... can you tell the difference???
You don't know what happened... you have no idea what that kid was doing or not doing. Do you know how much havoc can happen in ten seconds? You know the semi automatic weapons you are afraid of? The one that this kid was carrying a replica of?
Its probably something like the one used in the movie theater shooting that had you so bothered.... 10 seconds, and almost anyone can send 25 to 30 rounds down range. If that would have happened, you would have been outraged.
Its probably something like the one used in the movie theater shooting that had you so bothered.... 10 seconds, and almost anyone can send 25 to 30 rounds down range. If that would have happened, you would have been outraged.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10/31/nra-blocked-law-that-could-have-prevented-polic/196673
A 13 year old boy carrying a toy gun was shot by the police who stopped BEHIND him, within 10 seconds of stopping.
The police had the protection of the vehicle. They didn't need to shoot to kill. A popular kid, a good student, member of the band and the community is dead because of the militarized reaction of this cop.
Follow directions ? What directions was he given ? Did he even hear the cop who were behind him ? Perhaps that is why he turned to face them, as in, "Oh, are you talking to me ???"
The police had the protection of the vehicle. They didn't need to shoot to kill. A popular kid, a good student, member of the band and the community is dead because of the militarized reaction of this cop.
Follow directions ? What directions was he given ? Did he even hear the cop who were behind him ? Perhaps that is why he turned to face them, as in, "Oh, are you talking to me ???"
Teko, there are 13 year olds all over the country that comply with cops orders and don't get killed. I can tell you that at 13 years old, when I was told to hit the ground face down and had a gun pointed at me, I found the ground.
13 year olds are old enough to follow directions. The over whelming majority do and that is why the overwhelming majority of 13 year olds grow into adults.
13 year olds are old enough to follow directions. The over whelming majority do and that is why the overwhelming majority of 13 year olds grow into adults.
He was 13 Brice. 13
So where were the adults?
So where were the adults?
Why can't the cops and media just talk people out of carrying guns and committing shootings? No guns would ever be needed then and the unicorns and pixie dust could settle on us all and we'd live rainbow dreams forever....
Police Departments hire hundreds of military vets. The over whelming majority of them are incredible law enforcement officers. (We have about a dozen on our small local force.)
A "firearm expert" cannot tell the difference between some of these toy guns and the real ones. I would bet that this kid turned around and dragged the muzzle of this gun across the cops.... Go point your bb gun at a cop and see what happens... please, then get back to me with first hand information.... oh, and make sure you are not listening to directives. That will add more insight. Better yet, does your community allow "ride alongs"? Go for a few "ride alongs".
You are not innocent if you are not following directions. In order for a cop to be able to determine if an area, person or situation is approachable, they offer directives in order to secure the area. If one neglects these directives, the situation climbs a rung on the ladder and sometimes this happens really, really fast... like if someone points a gun at a cop. It is not a cops job to sit there and take a bullet to determine if a gun is real or not. It is fully that cops job to inject himself/herself into any given situation and try to neutralize the situation.
I'm not blaming the kid, but if he would have dropped to the ground and more or less surrendered, he would not have been shot. If these cops shot the kid while he was on the ground and unarmed, you've got a case.
Police Departments hire hundreds of military vets. The over whelming majority of them are incredible law enforcement officers. (We have about a dozen on our small local force.)
A "firearm expert" cannot tell the difference between some of these toy guns and the real ones. I would bet that this kid turned around and dragged the muzzle of this gun across the cops.... Go point your bb gun at a cop and see what happens... please, then get back to me with first hand information.... oh, and make sure you are not listening to directives. That will add more insight. Better yet, does your community allow "ride alongs"? Go for a few "ride alongs".
You are not innocent if you are not following directions. In order for a cop to be able to determine if an area, person or situation is approachable, they offer directives in order to secure the area. If one neglects these directives, the situation climbs a rung on the ladder and sometimes this happens really, really fast... like if someone points a gun at a cop. It is not a cops job to sit there and take a bullet to determine if a gun is real or not. It is fully that cops job to inject himself/herself into any given situation and try to neutralize the situation.
I'm not blaming the kid, but if he would have dropped to the ground and more or less surrendered, he would not have been shot. If these cops shot the kid while he was on the ground and unarmed, you've got a case.
All I know for sure is it seems for the norm than a rarity that innocent people are dying at the hands of our police. And frankly, I think it needs addressed. It is NOT okay! I will repeat that, IT IS NOT okay! And Im tired of making excuses for it to continue.
The police car stopped behind the kid 10 seconds of the police car stopping, a 13 year old boy was dead.
Um, gee el, I missed you too. Sorry if I wasn't clear or didn't explain what I heard on the local radio concerning an eyewitness report. Here is what I do know and what I found online.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sonoma-County-Deputy-Who-Killed-Andy-Lopez-13-IDd-as-Erick-Gelhause-229588421.html
The Sonoma County sheriff's deputy who fired the shots that killed a 13-year-old boy carrying a replica assault rifle last week is a firearms expert, Iraq War veteran, and a regular contributor to magazines and blogs, where in one article, he wrote about needing to have a "mean gene" to stay alive in the "kill zone."
The Santa Rosa Press Democrat first reported the name of the deputy as Erick Gelhaus, 48, which was confirmed to NBC Bay Area on Monday by Assistant Sheriff Lorenzo Dueñas. In a November 2008 SWAT Magazine article titled "Ambush Reaction in the Kill Zone," (PDF) Gelhaus wrote that in order to stay alive, you must take action and have a necessary "mean gene."
"If you cannot turn on the "Mean Gene" for yourself, who will?" Gelhaus wrote in a training article to teach law enforcement not to get killed while encountering an ambush.
**********************************************************************
Why is a military guy patrolling our streets with an attitude like you have to have mean gene ?? This was a neighborhood not a war zone !!!!
Um, gee el, I missed you too. Sorry if I wasn't clear or didn't explain what I heard on the local radio concerning an eyewitness report. Here is what I do know and what I found online.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sonoma-County-Deputy-Who-Killed-Andy-Lopez-13-IDd-as-Erick-Gelhause-229588421.html
The Sonoma County sheriff's deputy who fired the shots that killed a 13-year-old boy carrying a replica assault rifle last week is a firearms expert, Iraq War veteran, and a regular contributor to magazines and blogs, where in one article, he wrote about needing to have a "mean gene" to stay alive in the "kill zone."
The Santa Rosa Press Democrat first reported the name of the deputy as Erick Gelhaus, 48, which was confirmed to NBC Bay Area on Monday by Assistant Sheriff Lorenzo Dueñas. In a November 2008 SWAT Magazine article titled "Ambush Reaction in the Kill Zone," (PDF) Gelhaus wrote that in order to stay alive, you must take action and have a necessary "mean gene."
"If you cannot turn on the "Mean Gene" for yourself, who will?" Gelhaus wrote in a training article to teach law enforcement not to get killed while encountering an ambush.
**********************************************************************
Why is a military guy patrolling our streets with an attitude like you have to have mean gene ?? This was a neighborhood not a war zone !!!!
"Why hasn't anyone said... "The stupid kid shouldn't have been walking around with a freaking GUN in his hands, fake or not"? "
I think I alluded to that above. From a distance, you'd be hard pressed to discern some of the "toy guns" from "real guns".
Until I hear a report that the cops just drove up and opened fire, I am going to go with what was reported. The cops showed up, drew their weapons (because someone had a gun), shouted directives, the kid supposedly made a move with the gun and was consequently shot.
Has anyone here besides me ever have a gun pointed at you?
I think I alluded to that above. From a distance, you'd be hard pressed to discern some of the "toy guns" from "real guns".
Until I hear a report that the cops just drove up and opened fire, I am going to go with what was reported. The cops showed up, drew their weapons (because someone had a gun), shouted directives, the kid supposedly made a move with the gun and was consequently shot.
Has anyone here besides me ever have a gun pointed at you?
BTW, I think that it is bs that they couldn't try to shoot a kid in such a way as to wound him rather than kill him. The mindset of police officers that everyone is a criminal first and innocent last makes them A holes to deal with (know a few). I get it, part of their work is to protect themselves but yeah, I could see a 13 year old stand there like a deer in headlights with police when he doesn't even get what they are upset at. He KNOWS it is a toy and maybe didn't even think it would be mistaken for something else. I think if you yelled stand down to a kid who has a plastic gun that they might not put it together that you are saying ditch the toy! That actually DOES make sense to me.
Can we all just agree that this is SAD?
The kid is dead because he was walking down the street with a semi-automatic weapon.
If it'd been real, and he'd started shooting people, and managed to kill someone, there would be OUTRAGE regarding the lack of police presence.
The kid is neither wrong nor right.
The police are neither wrong nor right.
Things aren't ALWAYS black & white. Sometimes, things are just in the GREY area, and need to stay there. This is one of those things.
Tragic? Yes.
Avoidable? Yes.
Sad? Yes.
Time for finger-pointing? No.
Shoot to kill. Shoot to disable. Shoot to wound. Shoot to tickle. Whatever.
Why hasn't anyone said... "The stupid kid shouldn't have been walking around with a freaking GUN in his hands, fake or not"?
The kid is dead because he was walking down the street with a semi-automatic weapon.
If it'd been real, and he'd started shooting people, and managed to kill someone, there would be OUTRAGE regarding the lack of police presence.
The kid is neither wrong nor right.
The police are neither wrong nor right.
Things aren't ALWAYS black & white. Sometimes, things are just in the GREY area, and need to stay there. This is one of those things.
Tragic? Yes.
Avoidable? Yes.
Sad? Yes.
Time for finger-pointing? No.
Shoot to kill. Shoot to disable. Shoot to wound. Shoot to tickle. Whatever.
Why hasn't anyone said... "The stupid kid shouldn't have been walking around with a freaking GUN in his hands, fake or not"?
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