Aa
Thoughts on if the baby is mine?
So I had unprotected sex with a friend in December when I was in LA. The 4th to be exact. I find out that she is pregnant but she says it's not mine, but it's her BF's that she had be having issues with (yes I know, silly me, I prob didn't help).
But anyway, after early scans and stuff she has been given a due date of August 30. I know they aren't perfect but every online calculator pinpoints pretty much that she conceived literally around when we had sex, or a few days after. She is adamant it's not mine and I don't want to push it cause I'll lose her important friendship.
I don't want to destroy a friendship, or even her relationship. I guess I just have some natural curiosity over if it is mine. If I found out it was I'm not to sure how that would pan out. Like I'm not fighting for her or anything, although she would be and amazing partner and mother.
The whole question is just riding my mind. Even if she had sex in that period with the BF this just seems far to close to call. What do you think?
But anyway, after early scans and stuff she has been given a due date of August 30. I know they aren't perfect but every online calculator pinpoints pretty much that she conceived literally around when we had sex, or a few days after. She is adamant it's not mine and I don't want to push it cause I'll lose her important friendship.
I don't want to destroy a friendship, or even her relationship. I guess I just have some natural curiosity over if it is mine. If I found out it was I'm not to sure how that would pan out. Like I'm not fighting for her or anything, although she would be and amazing partner and mother.
The whole question is just riding my mind. Even if she had sex in that period with the BF this just seems far to close to call. What do you think?
So I think you mentioned earlier she lives in California- Lets say hypothetically she doesn't work at all, and you earn 40k a year. If this was the case your child support payment would about $726 a month. Im not sure about CA, but in my state you have to pay 50% of any healthcare and 50% of childcare costs on top of that. And, it can actually be even worse than that.
Lets say she really really hates you and lets say she has a good lawyer. They can also do something called imputing income, which means they can hold you liable for money you don't actually earn. Lets say you used to earn 50K, but a few months ago you either quit your job or got fired for whatever reason. You have a new job now, and maybe you're much happier than you were with the old job but this job only pays 35K. If it can be argued that you voluntarily switched to the lower paying job, they can still use 50k to calculate what you owe even though now you earn much less. Imputed income can get pretty scary.
I know someone who picked up a ton of overtime after he broke up with his gf, he was depressed and didnt want alone time and his job had a project he volunteered for where he started putting in 80 hours a week and was making a ton of money (40 hours plus 40 hours of time and half) Then he found out they can consider his 80 hour a week pay his normal pay, which means his childsupport payment would actually have exceeded his normal 40 hour a week paycheck and he could be forced to continue working 80 hours a week until the kid turns 18. (Or go to jail for failure to pay child support) Luckily his ex wasn't out for blood, but the legislation is pretty tough on people who actually work for a living due to efforts to crack down on deadbeat dads back in the 80's and 90's.
There are some states where something like 20% of their prison populations are made up of people who won't (or most likely can't) make their child support payments.
Also, you should know that even if the girl does not want child support money from you, there are other ways you can get hammered by this. Another friend of , just got hit with a support order out of another state (GA) for a girl he didn't even know he knocked up on a one night stand when he visited atlanta 5 years ago. This girl did not take him to court, she didn't want any money from him. She never told him he was the dad and decided to raise the child on her own.
But at some point later she had to apply for welfare. The government made her name the suspected father of the child in order to collect benefits and then the department of revenue tracked him down, dna tested him, and forced him to payback the benefits she got from the government plus child support. He earns $20 per hour working retail and his payment is $900 a month now for a kid hat lives 500 miles away whom hes never met and didn't even know existed. Its really no joke.
I'm just giving you worst case scenarios, not saying any of this will happen to you. But please talk to an attorney about your options if she will not agree to be reasonable and allow you to make sure its not your kid.
Lets say she really really hates you and lets say she has a good lawyer. They can also do something called imputing income, which means they can hold you liable for money you don't actually earn. Lets say you used to earn 50K, but a few months ago you either quit your job or got fired for whatever reason. You have a new job now, and maybe you're much happier than you were with the old job but this job only pays 35K. If it can be argued that you voluntarily switched to the lower paying job, they can still use 50k to calculate what you owe even though now you earn much less. Imputed income can get pretty scary.
I know someone who picked up a ton of overtime after he broke up with his gf, he was depressed and didnt want alone time and his job had a project he volunteered for where he started putting in 80 hours a week and was making a ton of money (40 hours plus 40 hours of time and half) Then he found out they can consider his 80 hour a week pay his normal pay, which means his childsupport payment would actually have exceeded his normal 40 hour a week paycheck and he could be forced to continue working 80 hours a week until the kid turns 18. (Or go to jail for failure to pay child support) Luckily his ex wasn't out for blood, but the legislation is pretty tough on people who actually work for a living due to efforts to crack down on deadbeat dads back in the 80's and 90's.
There are some states where something like 20% of their prison populations are made up of people who won't (or most likely can't) make their child support payments.
Also, you should know that even if the girl does not want child support money from you, there are other ways you can get hammered by this. Another friend of , just got hit with a support order out of another state (GA) for a girl he didn't even know he knocked up on a one night stand when he visited atlanta 5 years ago. This girl did not take him to court, she didn't want any money from him. She never told him he was the dad and decided to raise the child on her own.
But at some point later she had to apply for welfare. The government made her name the suspected father of the child in order to collect benefits and then the department of revenue tracked him down, dna tested him, and forced him to payback the benefits she got from the government plus child support. He earns $20 per hour working retail and his payment is $900 a month now for a kid hat lives 500 miles away whom hes never met and didn't even know existed. Its really no joke.
I'm just giving you worst case scenarios, not saying any of this will happen to you. But please talk to an attorney about your options if she will not agree to be reasonable and allow you to make sure its not your kid.
You need to speak to attorney in the state that the woman who is potentially carrying your child lives in immediately.
Here's why-
Let's say it is your child. And she raises it with the boyfriend. And they break up. And she can't afford to take care of the kid by herself. Lets say the kid is 8 years old and you've never met. She can file against you for child support. You will be forced to submit to a paternity test, and if it is positive you will owe her approximately 35% of your income until the child is 18. Plus day care, plus medical expenses. In fact, depending on the state you may be found liable backdated to the day of the child's birth. You will be giving someone all of your money for a child you have no relationship with. If she wants to she can pick up and move to china with the kid and theres nothing you can do about it, but you still have to pay.
How to avoid it?
File a paternity suit against her as soon as the child is born asking for full or partial custody. She will be forced to DNA test the child. If its yours, its likely you may get 50% or more, they don't really favor the mother anymore for custody as long as you have been significantly involved in the child's life from the beginning. If you win youll owe her very little, or she will owe you. If you lose, well then you're in the same situation as you would be above, but you still get visitation rights (yes she will be forced to send the kid to you for the summer from china if you want it) and at least you have a relationship with the kid you are paying for. You're paying for something that benefits you and not for a kid somewhere you've never met and who believes someone else is daddy.
How well do you know this woman? Do you trust her? I just want to you to be aware of what she can legally do to you if you are wrong. Do not stick your head under the rug about this, even if she will not admit right now that it may be your child. She can change her mind at any time if it is yours and you are responsible for it.
Here's why-
Let's say it is your child. And she raises it with the boyfriend. And they break up. And she can't afford to take care of the kid by herself. Lets say the kid is 8 years old and you've never met. She can file against you for child support. You will be forced to submit to a paternity test, and if it is positive you will owe her approximately 35% of your income until the child is 18. Plus day care, plus medical expenses. In fact, depending on the state you may be found liable backdated to the day of the child's birth. You will be giving someone all of your money for a child you have no relationship with. If she wants to she can pick up and move to china with the kid and theres nothing you can do about it, but you still have to pay.
How to avoid it?
File a paternity suit against her as soon as the child is born asking for full or partial custody. She will be forced to DNA test the child. If its yours, its likely you may get 50% or more, they don't really favor the mother anymore for custody as long as you have been significantly involved in the child's life from the beginning. If you win youll owe her very little, or she will owe you. If you lose, well then you're in the same situation as you would be above, but you still get visitation rights (yes she will be forced to send the kid to you for the summer from china if you want it) and at least you have a relationship with the kid you are paying for. You're paying for something that benefits you and not for a kid somewhere you've never met and who believes someone else is daddy.
How well do you know this woman? Do you trust her? I just want to you to be aware of what she can legally do to you if you are wrong. Do not stick your head under the rug about this, even if she will not admit right now that it may be your child. She can change her mind at any time if it is yours and you are responsible for it.
2 Comments
Hi, Anomaly, the o.p, is friends with this girl and his strongest card for getting a DNA test from her right now (before the baby comes) is the friendly approach. He can use the legal approach if that goes poorly, but he has several months before he would need to come on hard with the legal approach.
Interesting, it had occurred to me, but I didn't realise the payment could get so high.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Do you have the exact date of her first scan that provided the due date of August 30?
7 Comments
Jan 13 I think it was, so just under 8 weeks I think it was
It is rather unusual for a woman to be this certain of who the father is if only a few days separate the sex in question from the sex she feels produced the baby. So, the question becomes again, does she in fact know something that you don't?
Have you double-checked all the dates against the actual doctor reports -- the date of the sex; the assertion of being "just under 8 weeks" on January 13; the due date? It's sometimes easy to make a mistake in this kind of recital of facts. Even the woman herself will write in here and then come back after a week or so and say "I checked the actual ultrasound report and it said --" [then name a different date]. How do you know the numbers and dates you are using are correct?
I am asking because the way you tell the story, it is a bit surprising she would be this sure. Therefore you need to rule out having a wrong piece of information in the data you are using. Such a wrong piece could come from either misunderstanding, mis-hearing, or mistaken inference or calculation.
If you don't have access to the doctor's reports, can you get access to them, or to a pretty verbatim description of them from someone who is actually reading them and not saying what they say from memory?
Have you double-checked all the dates against the actual doctor reports -- the date of the sex; the assertion of being "just under 8 weeks" on January 13; the due date? It's sometimes easy to make a mistake in this kind of recital of facts. Even the woman herself will write in here and then come back after a week or so and say "I checked the actual ultrasound report and it said --" [then name a different date]. How do you know the numbers and dates you are using are correct?
I am asking because the way you tell the story, it is a bit surprising she would be this sure. Therefore you need to rule out having a wrong piece of information in the data you are using. Such a wrong piece could come from either misunderstanding, mis-hearing, or mistaken inference or calculation.
If you don't have access to the doctor's reports, can you get access to them, or to a pretty verbatim description of them from someone who is actually reading them and not saying what they say from memory?
It's almost not even a few days. You almost couldn't Ben more exact looking at the numbers. Like I know everyone is diff, but facts in front are compelling for the time being. We met for dinner when I was back in LA on Jan 18 and she said they told her that was to be her 8 week mark when she had the scan on Jan 13. A mutual friend also told me this too. That and August 30, plus our date of sex, too close for me. Even if she had sex with her BF in those days too.
I did initially discount it as a close call at the start, but as I learnt more about it all (the first two weeks of "pregnancy" after the last period etc) and was getting info from her best friend and her and hearing it several times over, I'm certain I'm not getting this wrong.
I've tried to point it out and got shut down. She said her last period was late October, and that means it can't be mine. Again, this doesn't work out. She would at least be 2-3 weeks ahead, And due much earlier in August.
I'm surprised too that she is quick to discount even the possibility, even if it were much smaller. I know her, and her knowing I was suspicious/curious, she would have looked closer and seen what I'm on about. If she didn't know from the start. My guess is like you said, she just wants to believe it's not mine, likely to avoid that awkward conversation with the BF if she told him and the family etc. if it went public it would initially cause some chaos for me. Either way, I'd want to be a supportive biological father to the baby. Or at the very least, us to know, and the baby later in life. Family medical history can be important.
And hey, if it's proven not mine, well at least we know and that forevermore burning question will be gone.
I did initially discount it as a close call at the start, but as I learnt more about it all (the first two weeks of "pregnancy" after the last period etc) and was getting info from her best friend and her and hearing it several times over, I'm certain I'm not getting this wrong.
I've tried to point it out and got shut down. She said her last period was late October, and that means it can't be mine. Again, this doesn't work out. She would at least be 2-3 weeks ahead, And due much earlier in August.
I'm surprised too that she is quick to discount even the possibility, even if it were much smaller. I know her, and her knowing I was suspicious/curious, she would have looked closer and seen what I'm on about. If she didn't know from the start. My guess is like you said, she just wants to believe it's not mine, likely to avoid that awkward conversation with the BF if she told him and the family etc. if it went public it would initially cause some chaos for me. Either way, I'd want to be a supportive biological father to the baby. Or at the very least, us to know, and the baby later in life. Family medical history can be important.
And hey, if it's proven not mine, well at least we know and that forevermore burning question will be gone.
It sounds silly but I actually remember about 2 weeks before we actually had sex we were actually discussing getting together for a night. However she said she couldn't right then because it was "kinda that time of the month". I've avoided mentioning this because she would get more annoyed at me at the moment. Again surprised she is forgetting this.
As you can tell, it's eating away at me, and all rather compelling. Who knows, maybe the 12 week scan will change all the dates completely. But to be really certain you would thing it would have to be almost a 2 week change, which would be a fair bit at this early stage I would think. I'm the friendly friend at the moment, and between her and her best friend, I'll find out a fair amount.
Maybe she might eventually talk to me at some stage in the next few months. I don't know. Especially if her BF got flakey again. But To his credit, I hear he's been ok lately even with the news of a baby.
As you can tell, it's eating away at me, and all rather compelling. Who knows, maybe the 12 week scan will change all the dates completely. But to be really certain you would thing it would have to be almost a 2 week change, which would be a fair bit at this early stage I would think. I'm the friendly friend at the moment, and between her and her best friend, I'll find out a fair amount.
Maybe she might eventually talk to me at some stage in the next few months. I don't know. Especially if her BF got flakey again. But To his credit, I hear he's been ok lately even with the news of a baby.
A possibility for why she is so sure is that she might not know what '8 weeks pregnant' means when a doctor says it. A lot of women assume it is from the presumed conception date. (It's logical to assume this. The idea that doctors count two extra weeks in the front is very hard to grasp. It happens all the time in the DNA/Paternity forum that a woman who heard her doctor say "6 weeks pregnant," will be very astonished to learn that this doesn't mean she conceived 6 weeks ago. And this happens even when they have been given a due date. In fact, they often write in only after they can't figure out why their due date doesn't line up with how sure they are of what the "weeks pregnant" means.) Unless you see what the ultrasound report actually says, I wouldn't take anyone's word for the "weeks pregnant," because it is a number so often misunderstood.
The problem is that she seems to have gotten a due date from an ultrasound (which ultrasound was early enough to only have two or three days' margin for error) that suggests conception on the 7th. (You can call that an exact match to the 4th, and claim it couldn't have been more exact, but it is not. I don't see it as exact unless you are assuming the ultrasound's margin for error means it must be the 7th, and that is kind of a reach.) But anyway, it's close. If she was sleeping with her boyfriend in the same time period, depending on exactly when the sex was with her boyfriend, he does have a higher chance than you of being the dad, but this doesn't rule you out at all thanks to the long life of sperm.
Why do you think this is a matter that would "go public?" Are either of you well known? And why would that cause chaos for you, are you married or engaged? If you would have a strong public consequence (let's call this the Prince Harry and the Showgirl scenaro), you will need to get your legal and PR ducks in a row and be ready. Even Prince Harry would be able to manage this if he had a good plan -- Prince Albert had an illegitimate daughter in California that only hit the papers after he denied her, and once he acknowledged her, the press was no longer interested.
If by "going public," you were just being dramatic because you would have to tell your parents (let's call this the Prince Worried Drama-King scenario), that's less serious, though I can see you might not feel that way. Getting someone pregnant might not have been in your life plan right now, but people's life plans can be impacted by the unexpected and life does go on, and it doesn't turn everything upside-down.
Certainly if you are engaged or married, you behaved badly and at the very least are going to have some talking to do, and your wife or fiance would be within her rights to be furious. But you haven't mentioned you are married, so I assume not. And you sound more interested in the woman who is pregnant than you should for a married or engaged guy anyway, so it might be time to give your erstwhile partner the chance to understand your interest and make some informed decisions.
What I do advise is that you look into getting a prenatal DNA test from Ravgen or the DDC, and offer it as an option to your pregnant friend, with you paying for it. If you tell her breezily that it's just a blood draw from her arm at a local lab, and it would matter to you a lot so you could write off the possibility, she might go for it, especially if you point out her due date indicates conception was on the 7th.
The problem is that she seems to have gotten a due date from an ultrasound (which ultrasound was early enough to only have two or three days' margin for error) that suggests conception on the 7th. (You can call that an exact match to the 4th, and claim it couldn't have been more exact, but it is not. I don't see it as exact unless you are assuming the ultrasound's margin for error means it must be the 7th, and that is kind of a reach.) But anyway, it's close. If she was sleeping with her boyfriend in the same time period, depending on exactly when the sex was with her boyfriend, he does have a higher chance than you of being the dad, but this doesn't rule you out at all thanks to the long life of sperm.
Why do you think this is a matter that would "go public?" Are either of you well known? And why would that cause chaos for you, are you married or engaged? If you would have a strong public consequence (let's call this the Prince Harry and the Showgirl scenaro), you will need to get your legal and PR ducks in a row and be ready. Even Prince Harry would be able to manage this if he had a good plan -- Prince Albert had an illegitimate daughter in California that only hit the papers after he denied her, and once he acknowledged her, the press was no longer interested.
If by "going public," you were just being dramatic because you would have to tell your parents (let's call this the Prince Worried Drama-King scenario), that's less serious, though I can see you might not feel that way. Getting someone pregnant might not have been in your life plan right now, but people's life plans can be impacted by the unexpected and life does go on, and it doesn't turn everything upside-down.
Certainly if you are engaged or married, you behaved badly and at the very least are going to have some talking to do, and your wife or fiance would be within her rights to be furious. But you haven't mentioned you are married, so I assume not. And you sound more interested in the woman who is pregnant than you should for a married or engaged guy anyway, so it might be time to give your erstwhile partner the chance to understand your interest and make some informed decisions.
What I do advise is that you look into getting a prenatal DNA test from Ravgen or the DDC, and offer it as an option to your pregnant friend, with you paying for it. If you tell her breezily that it's just a blood draw from her arm at a local lab, and it would matter to you a lot so you could write off the possibility, she might go for it, especially if you point out her due date indicates conception was on the 7th.
I'm not engaged or married :) I was dating someone who has become a little more serious now. She may not be the happiest that this happened in the early days of us dating if she worked it out. Plus they know each other and she knows we are friends, but has never liked her at all. I think it would also just be the unexpected shock for people on my side knowing I've been the other guy in something like this, and made her pregnant.
Ok yeah As you said, not exact, but very nearly, and far too close for her to be "adamant" at least it's not mine. To me even the margin of error falling the other side is still close enough to even a possibility.
I plan on maybe, and painfully, sitting on it for a little bit. And see if she may perhaps come to me if further scans stay the same etc and she perhaps realises or admits it's pretty darn close. Otherwise a friendly approach again may be necessary once she is more settled into pregnancy life. I have considered maybe coming clean with my concerns to her best friend. She is a very level headed person, and while shocked I know will listen. She was very involved with her sisters pregnancy so I would imagine will see the quandary quickly.
I'm not fighting or wanting to be with her, that's her decision. Anything like that is secondary to the baby in my mind if it was in fact mine. It sounds bad but even if the news was between us, and not the bf and they continued in their relationship, at least an answer could initially be settled and paternal issues be investigated.
Perhaps I'm just a silent sperm donor.
Yes DNA has been considered, but I need to get her to first accept even the slight possibility I guess
Ok yeah As you said, not exact, but very nearly, and far too close for her to be "adamant" at least it's not mine. To me even the margin of error falling the other side is still close enough to even a possibility.
I plan on maybe, and painfully, sitting on it for a little bit. And see if she may perhaps come to me if further scans stay the same etc and she perhaps realises or admits it's pretty darn close. Otherwise a friendly approach again may be necessary once she is more settled into pregnancy life. I have considered maybe coming clean with my concerns to her best friend. She is a very level headed person, and while shocked I know will listen. She was very involved with her sisters pregnancy so I would imagine will see the quandary quickly.
I'm not fighting or wanting to be with her, that's her decision. Anything like that is secondary to the baby in my mind if it was in fact mine. It sounds bad but even if the news was between us, and not the bf and they continued in their relationship, at least an answer could initially be settled and paternal issues be investigated.
Perhaps I'm just a silent sperm donor.
Yes DNA has been considered, but I need to get her to first accept even the slight possibility I guess
Hi, SoUSoC, I sent you a private message just now. Look for it in your messages inbox.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You are talking about the December that just went by, is that correct? (In other words, as of now she is in her 10th week or so?) How early were the "early scans?"
I am a little surprised she would be "adamant" that the baby is not from the sex with you. The fact that she insists (instead of leaving the question more open) suggests that either she doesn't know what a doctor means when he says "You are 10 weeks pregnant," and thinks it means that is when she conceived, or that she really, really, really wants the baby to be from her boyfriend to the point that her mind rejects all other possibilities. (This might be a fair thing to think, if you used protection. Did you?)
I guess there are some more far-fetched possibilities, such as if she had her IUD removed a few days after sex with you, or used some esoteric method of female birth control with you that had worn off by a few days later. Did she take the morning-after pill after the sex with you?
Anyway, I think most women who are pregnant and aren't sure who the dad is will let fairness rule and will at least give the guy a chance to get a DNA test. Keep the lines of communication open with her and look for an opportunity to discuss this again.
I am a little surprised she would be "adamant" that the baby is not from the sex with you. The fact that she insists (instead of leaving the question more open) suggests that either she doesn't know what a doctor means when he says "You are 10 weeks pregnant," and thinks it means that is when she conceived, or that she really, really, really wants the baby to be from her boyfriend to the point that her mind rejects all other possibilities. (This might be a fair thing to think, if you used protection. Did you?)
I guess there are some more far-fetched possibilities, such as if she had her IUD removed a few days after sex with you, or used some esoteric method of female birth control with you that had worn off by a few days later. Did she take the morning-after pill after the sex with you?
Anyway, I think most women who are pregnant and aren't sure who the dad is will let fairness rule and will at least give the guy a chance to get a DNA test. Keep the lines of communication open with her and look for an opportunity to discuss this again.
1 Comments
Yeah there was no protection. Things kinda just got the better of us. I did ask after and she said she was on the normal pill and she said yes... Possible but I guess she only knows. Yeah I've thought the same thing about her just rejecting the possibility. Probably not so much as in being horrified it's mine, but more for the fact there would be the total scandal that would ensue for all of us and friends and family, If it was public of course. She thought she was initially further along but the first scan where it was dated at 8 weeks and given the due date. 12 weeks very shortly. As far as I know the early dating scans are pretty accurate. I often wonder about if I'm like this now, how curious and to be honest completely torn with the lack of knowledge when it's born. The Bf has similar features to me so it won't t be an obvious giveaway. We don't communicate as often now, mainly cos I feel I need to give her space to focus on her new life, but she is important enough in my life not to lose so we still have conversations but it's just general chatter and me just having general friendly curiosity over her pregnancy as I've put the dates question to bed for now.
To me a 1 or 2 week period of uncertainty would be close enough to warrant a double check. But pretty much a bullseye for the dates. Doesn't sit with me, but I really can't do much. But yes, perhaps I might raise it again one day. Such a horrible secret to keep to myself too
To me a 1 or 2 week period of uncertainty would be close enough to warrant a double check. But pretty much a bullseye for the dates. Doesn't sit with me, but I really can't do much. But yes, perhaps I might raise it again one day. Such a horrible secret to keep to myself too
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