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Avatar universal

Dog retaining fluid, now his brother doing the same

We have 2 golden retreiver males, 7 1/2 years old.  Previously in good health.

The week before christmas we noticed Jake had got a lot heavier looking around his abdomen.  Took him to the vets, and they did a scan, concluded it was fluid.  They also recommended an x ray so they could look at liver, etc.  This showed up a darkness on the liver.  Blood tests done and all clear.  They concluded that the darkness on the liver was either chronic liver disease, or more likely a tumour.  Dog is otherwise in good health, fitness and in good spirit.

They prescribed some reparitory drugs for the liver - Hepotosyl - and diuretics to reduced the fluid.  The course of diuretics worked however after another month the fluid build up came back, so hes now on diuretics permanently to keep the fluid off, along with the Hepotosyl.

Now, the problem is, the other dog - Jasper - from the same litter originally has now started swelling up.  We took him to the vets today, they checked and again its fluid build up.

They now think its more likely to be chronic liver disease caused by their genetics, hence they both have the same problem.  This doesnt seem very likely to us.  We spoke to the lady we got the dogs from and the father is still living, age 12, and the mother is still living, age 10.  No other pups from them have any issues.

Have you any thoughts on this?  We are loathe to have one of them operated on to examine the liver and likewise we are now unsure of the benefit of having them both on Hepotosyl which, along with the diuretics is very expensive?
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462827 tn?1333168952
This doesn't make sense to me....Originally stated was bloodwork was all clear on first dog.....Are you sure? Did you get a copy & check it yourself???

Bloodwork would have shown Elevated Liver enzymes either one or both....There would have been a hint of Liver Problems on the panel, of the liver being damaged!

The panel would have also shown Platelet count And/or Anemia....Unsure about Clotting times....

What strikes me as odd is if the blood panel was all clear, why/how did they suddenly select to scan the Liver & for what reason???

Cushings Disease comes to mind as does Heart Failure (Which could be Hereditary), but 2 at the same time is rather unusual...

I'm wondering if they are being poisoned???? However, again that would have shown on the bloodwork....

What are you feeding these two????
Helpful - 0
675347 tn?1365460645
COMMUNITY LEADER
Get the vet to check a blood sample for:
Abnormal platelet count.
Abnormal blood clotting times.
Anemia.
Helpful - 0
675347 tn?1365460645
COMMUNITY LEADER
No I wouldn't like to say this. I am not a vet, and couldn't possibly give advice about stopping a medication prescribed.

But I only meant that IF Hemangiosarcoma WAS diagnosed, then Hepatosyl may not be very helpful.

Re: what Margot said -you have a point, Margot. It would be weird coincidence for BOTH dogs to develop Hemangiosarcoma at exactly the same time. So it may well not be that at all. Even though the tendency to develop Hemangiosarcoma can be inherited genetically.

So all the vet can see is this 'darkness' on one side of the liver....
This is tricky, as fluid....cancerous tissue....and also fat! -shows up as very dark on an ultrasound.
A Hemangiosarcoma tumour will usually show up as a dark, defined area, with very tiny 'pock-marks' in it....almost unnoticeable to us, but a red flag to a trained eye.
Helpful - 0
974371 tn?1424653129
Well, still reading up on this when I get a few minutes.  I never heard of Hepotosyl either and a search led me to information of it being used in the UK.  Checked your profile to see that is where you are.  Seems it is a nutritional supplement used in dogs, cats and horses.  Not sure of the cost but, if you continue it, you might be able to order it over the Internet for a cheaper price.

I assume the blood work included liver and kidney function tests? Have they been checked for parasites?  Did the Vet suggest a liver biopsy?  Did they do blood work on Jasper?  No signs of heart problems?

What a dilemma.  

Helpful - 0
974371 tn?1424653129
Is this coincidence or just odd??  
What food are you feeding?
Anything toxic around, even plants inside or outside?
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks for your response Margot

The breeder is saying they have heard no other reports back from buyers regarding issues with other pups in that litter or from that pair and other litters.

Not sure where we go or how we treat this.  As you say, we could spend a lot of time and money chasing after an "answer" for either not to get a conclusive one or for it not to resolve the situation anyway.

Dont know where that puts us with longevity of the dogs.  They are both otherwise very happy and energetic dogs, they just seem to retain fluid.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks for your response.

I said xray, when really i meant ultrasound scan.  That was on jake.  It showed up a darkness on one side of the liver.

The vets concluded that this was most likely a tumour on the liver, but that now seems very unlikely.

Would it be your belief that we are wasting our money on the Hepotosyl?
Helpful - 0
974371 tn?1424653129
It is late night here and I am just seeing this.  Maybe I will have time tomorrow to look a couple of things up.
Not discounting what ginger is saying, as that may be the case.

Yes, it is odd that both dogs would be displaying the same symptoms at about the same time.  

Having bred dogs for some years and having some understanding of genetics, yes, it is certainly possible it could be genetic.  

I don't know if the person you got the dogs from has both the sire and dam.  How many other pups were there and has she actually checked on their health status since this came up with your dogs?  Mom and Dad may be fine but the combination of the two could have been the root of a genetic disorder.  One or both may have a recessive gene that does not necessarily cause any issues in all pups in all breedings.  One would have to study and know the dig's in past generations to try to determine this.  That is putting it simply.  I traveled this long road years ago in one line of my dogs.  So, the answer may not be a simple one.

Helpful - 0
675347 tn?1365460645
COMMUNITY LEADER
Yes, I do have a suggestion although it may not sound very positive.

Ask the vet to run an ultrasound scan on both dogs to check liver and spleen, to eliminate the possibility of Hemangiosarcoma tumours. If that is the case, none of those medicines are going to do any good at all.

If they are discovered, surgery may help. I have also heard of supplements and alternative treatments which can sometimes give dogs more time with this. Please do post back if you get the chance, because I would like to know the outcome.
Helpful - 0
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675347 tn?1365460645
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