Magnesium Def

[SARAHKC0123]

I have recently seen alot of chatter about Fibro patients being deficient in Magnesium. What do you know about this and what blood test can I have to detect this if I have it. I have had FM for over 10yrs now and have tried every medication out there and nothing has seem to work that much, except vioxx which they unfortunately took off the market b/c of a couple of heart attacks. I would have gladly taken the risk. I have been a Pharmcy Tech for over 20yrs now, so I know everything that is out there, but please feel free if offer any suggestions or ask any questions and I don't believe in HIPPA laws, so feel free to share whatever and ask whatever! lol

[LazyMoose]

Regaurdless of the form you take, If its being absorbed you should actually be able to feel it as your muscles will relax. If not, your not getting enough or that type just is not working. When it works its very, very obvious too the user. The KAL brand of mag glycinate and taurate is known for the highest bioavailability in tablet forms of mag. Most that use it are pleasently surprised, as it works very well.

[TheLightSeeker]

Blood magnesium is constant as there's a default mechanism PLUS  it only represents 1% of the total magnesium in the body.
Approx. 50% is in the bones and the rest in the cells.( Source"National Institute of Health)
Therefore any blood testing will not return accurate results.
It is one of the larger medical controversies, as the majority of people have
a significant magnesium deficiency,  potentially leading to
numerous conditions. Most forms of  oral supplementation are very inefficient, as Mg bioavailability is very low.
That is why transdermal delivery is one of the prefered methods to supplement. Transdermal Magnesium Oil 50% dilution (MgCl2/H2O)
has worked well for everyone that I have recommended to.
Cheers,
Niko

[LazyMoose]

Correction -should have read "I have tried many magnesium forms"

[LazyMoose]

Ihave tried many oxide forms for hoshimoto muscle pain. ecept transdermal types.

tablets: Mag oxide a laxitive- no pain reliefe.
Mag citrate - works OK but speeds up digestion a little too much.
Mag glycinate - horse pills, very calming and soothing for muscles, helps sleep, KAL brand
Mag tuarate- similar to above but have B6 in it too, by KAL

Powder- CALM - similar results to mag glycinate

Never thought of the body becoming dependent on mag suppliments, Oh well- I know I'll be on it for life anyway since it works.

Standardmag blood test is not very accurate. The best test is called RBC red blood cell magnesium test , quest labs is very common for MD's, they offer this test.

[mel11965]

so what brand or form do you take that helped you the best?

[TheLightSeeker]

Their careers are on the line, as they risk having their licenses revoked, or severely  reprimanded when treating  Lyme Disease patients PROPERLY!
Those are the potential consequences when breaking protocol established
by the Infectious Disease Society of America, which dictates the (controversial) treatment procedure (what a blow to thousands of LD sufferers).
It is becoming a huge challenge to find an LLMD (Lyme Literate Medical Doctor) anywhere these days.
Here in Canada we have NONE! The last one in Ontario probably got axed
by the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario a few months ago,
as his office does not take calls anymore !
Power,Profits and Politics before Patients. It's a sad situation.
Thanks for allowing me to rant.
Niko

[Ricobord]

Lyme Disease definitely causes magnesium deficiency, and often Vit D and Vit B12 shortages as well.  As all of the symptoms of Fibromyalgia are also on the list for Lyme Disease, magnesium deficiency or any symptom not usually associated with Fibromyalgia might mean it's worth doing research into Lyme Disease.

There is a lot of controversy in the medical community over Lyme with some doctors (especially Infect Dis. and Rheum) saying that blood tests are always accurate and Lyme cam be cured in 2-4 weeks in all cases.  There is another camp, usually associated with ILADS who say that some people with Lyme test negative (e.g. people on immune suppressing steroids, different strains of the disease, etc) and late stage disease usually requires many months of treatment to cure. These docs will treat until you're well, or unless permanent damage can be confirmed.

It can't hurt to check it out... Lyme is usually curable.  Fibro is not.

[TheLightSeeker]

Why  do your doctors recommend magnesium oxide?
At a 4% absorption rate one cannot replenish Magnesium fast enough
to remedy any deficiencies with MgO.
And any amounts above the recommended WILL cause a serious laxative effect.
Do your homework and you will find that transdermal MgCl2 supplementation is superior.
Cheers,
Nick

[sara12345]

I have been given very different information from a neurologist, endocrinologist and internal medicine physicians than what I read above.  They all recommended magnesium oxide because it gets absorbed more slowly which is better.  However, it is more likely to give you diarrhea, although I struggle with constipation.  The magnesium oxide that I saw was much more expensive, but the one doctor said to talk to the pharmacist about an OTC one that says the magnesium is slow release.

[pen_thief]

Natural Calm is a great oral supplement and Ancient Minerals or Swanson Magnesium Chloride spray is a great transdermal method - you really need the transdermal if you're highly deficient. Most people are already deficient but it seems to be worse in people with neurological/heart problems.

Further reading: The Magnesium Miracle, Dr. Carolyn Dean.
(An amazing book!)

[acker]

i've found bioceuticals 'ultramuscleze' (elemental magnesium) helpful in many ways.
before bed is fine too.
you can barely take too much (probably cause it gets pricey!)
also, an epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) bath is helpful too. chuck a couple of
handfuls of the crystals in bathwater and have a good soak. footbath ok too.
even well people probably need to supplement Mg intake, as a lot of growing soils are deficient in Mg so it doesn't show up sufficiently in our fresh foods.
get Epsom salts from pharmacy or supermarket.
good luck

[TheLightSeeker]

I would suggest that you  discuss this with your doctor further.
Prolonged use of magnesium citrate can lead to dependence. Patients who use this as medication for very long period of time may lose the ability to have a bowel movement after stopping treatment with magnesium citrate, as this supplement, which contains the naturally-occurring mineral magnesium, works by inducing stool production (by increasing the amount of water present within the digestive tract).
Dependency could be an issue, often overlooked.
Perhaps your Dr. has a reason for this. You should find out, though.
Transdermal delivery is by far the best, most efficient and safest method.
Magnederm should be a safe option, albeit much more expensive.
(compared to "magnesium oil", see above post to Sarah on May 22 )
Any questions on this or anything else  regarding  CFS,
please post again.
Blessings,
Nikodicreta
  

[jpaul119]

I deal with chronic fatigue and use magnesium.  I have used slow mag (magneisum chloride) magnesium citrate and magnederm which is a gel.  I am going to stick with the citrate and gel as prescribed by my doctor for now.  But i do get an energy bost from it.

[TheLightSeeker]

Sorry about  the typo on the second line: should be MgCl .
The chloride part of  this salt, when separated in the body, is used in the production of
gastric acid, as needed.

[TheLightSeeker]

Hey Sarah.

By far, the best form for magnesium is MgCl (Magnesium Chloride).
Price is irrelevant if it doesn't work, right?. So you pay a bit more for the McCl flakes,
and then you make Magnesium oil. I do a 50/50 dilution with boiled distilled water,
transfer to a spray bottle when cool (that's magnesium oil as it leaves a smooth greasy feeling on the skin) and rub all over your body. Leave on for 30' and then shower.
2-3 times weekly.
Note:  Test on a small area of your skin first-if too strong dilute further.
Your skin absorbs what it needs over time and there are no diarrhea issues.
Mg is used in over 300 processes and functions in the body.
Over 80% of people in western societies are Mg deficient.
The body requires high levels of Mg to perform well. It takes 56 molecules of Mg to process
just one molecule of glucose. Also vital for cardiovascular health and very specific to
heart rhythm regulation.
  Please read my earlier posts from today as you may find the information helpful, regarding your fibro condition.
Should you have any questions you may message me directly.
Blessings to all,
Nikodicreta

[FurballsMom]

I believe Wonko is correct.  I also experience one other benefit of supplementing magnesium for a couple of other reasons.  It helps migraines and it helps people with digestive troubles.  I think only people who already have diarrhea problems struggle supplementing magnesium.

I had been told when I had renal failure a few years ago not to use magnesium 'til the tests came back normal again.  Thankfully, this no longer applies.  So, yes, there is a magnesium deficiency test.

Wonko, what is your take on magnesium in the citrate and malate forms?  I just looked at the current form of magnesium I have.  Drats!  I don't know how I ended up getting oxide, because I know that's not the best form.  When I use this one up, I will get a better form.  It kind of sounds like it wouldn't hurt to up the intake of this form of magnesium, since it's hit and miss with oxide and I'm having symptoms that indicate some deficiency in magnesium.  

IBS-C benefits from taking enough magnesium, and constipation aggravates migraine issues, so it's a vicious cycle when there isn't enough.

I had to mention IBS-C, since many in this forum have some issues with IBS.  Not everyone will have IBS-D.  Both fluctuations in IBS hurt like mad, though.

[wonko]

I have found that supplementing magnesium helps somewhat with my leg muscle cramps and twitching.  I don't know the underlying physiological reasons for why Mg helps with this, but it has been my experience and was suggested by my doctor for the purpose of helping with muscle pain that has been mostly in my calves.

Not all magnesium supplements are the same:

Mag oxide is used in all but the best supplements because it is dirt cheap.  It is also not very bio-available.   The body's absorption and use of it is a little hit and miss.

The best forms of magnesium are other salts like:

mag orotate
mag taurate
mag arginate
mag glycinate
mag succinate

Of course, check with your doctor before adding this or any supplement.

I don't know much about tests for Mg deficiency, either.  I do know that my doctor told me that if you take too much, you will know because you may get the runs.  So I don't think there is a big danger in taking too much.