Risk of HIV

[GordBub]

Hi Everyone,

I will be posting in the anxiety forum at some point as well as here. I had protected vaginal sex and unprotected oral (both ways) with an escort. Now convinced I have HIV, obviously the same as so many stories it seems. I have a long term partner and just feel that this will almost be my punishment.

I have read everything on the internet, I understand on this forum and the health board forum members categorically say oral is not a risk. I have read the studies on serodiscordant couples with no new transmissions, also read a lot of Dr. HHH, Hook and Cummings thoughts on the matter. I am still a little un easy with the notion of someone saying it is no risk. But what gives me confidence is that from all my searching I am still to find one case of a male contracting from cunnilingus. I have read reports of a female or male contraction from giving a another male oral sex, but I guess as everyone says that they are just that, reports.

I know i have done very similar sexual things in the past, when I was younger, single and having 'fun' as they say and I never worried one bit and would never ever have thought of getting HIV tested for this sex act. I mean I honestly don't know if I know anyone that would or has. My brother thinks I am clinically insane for the anxiety I am going through over this.

I guess I just want it said to me even though I know the answer will most likely be the same:

1) Is giving oral to a woman a risk? ( I have concocted a story where by she was newly infected, high viral load and I had some random inflammation in my throat and viola it is an inevitability.)

2) Surely with the huge number of posts I have read with people worrying the same thing I someone would have come back as +. I mean a lot of the time these posts just die or the person with worries never responds, this could mean they got a + result and jut never returned...? Have we ever seen one of these oral cases become positive here?

4) I have small moments of no worry and just try to forget, and part of me thinks I could do this if the situation is a no risk one, but then I just believe that would be so irresponsible of me to maybe pass this on to others, but as I say I have done things similar in the past and not worried and carried on with my life. Would this be irresponsible?

5) I have a mild sore throat and am now at day 13. I had a DUO test taken yesterday and will get another at day 28, also Gonorrhea and Chlamedyia. I know to early but surely the DUO test has some kind of percentage success even this early?

Thanks greatly for any replies, the escort has told me she is clean and was obviously quite offended that I have asked her and she does not understand my worry due to condom use. I would have noticed a split surely?

[GordBub]

Thank you for the answers everyone.

I was in bad state yesterday and the day before. I feel better, I know that I will most likely have to get tested again at 28days for my own peace of mind. Right now thinking of all those people who do perform that sexual act and do not worry, obviously quite rightly so, makes me very sad that I cannot do the same thing but also scared that if I did I would be very irresponsible. Whether right or wrong.

And just to clarify in this situation I am only testing for HIV, not for any clinical reason, just for peace of mind? I could, if I had a stronger mental fortitude, accept what i did and walk away, knowing I was not at any real risk.

Again, I do appreciate all your time, especially considering how many times you must have read and heard this same situation!

[SmithBr]

I know well what it is, with me it happened in August 2017, it was and it is being difficult, I also had / 100% sure to have contracted, feeling horrible, everywhere I see "signs" that do not let me forget and that Sometimes I wake up crying desperately, every day I wake up thinking about it, I do not sleep right, when I wake up I do a self examination of my body looking for symptoms, I gained 30 kilos, we are in the same boat, I am joining forces and testing, for epirito peace and I do not want to forget this episode so that I will never make the same mistake again. The best for you, my friend. thanks for your post that made several questions answered and thanks to all who reply, without this forum I would have gone crazy!

[AnxiousNoMore]

Testing for HIV after oral sex is a waste of time. Your problem is anxiety, not disease. Anxiety is mental illness and it is painful, so you should see a therapist to help resolve this irrational fear that you have created by ignoring the biology science and making up your own science despite not having any medical training.

[Chima7]

Do you understand the concept of a theoretical risk? There are unlimited theoretical risks that we all take every day but yet we're still here and still breathing. Theoretically, a meteor could come crashing through your house and kill you, but you don't live in fear of that every day, do you? Theoretically, you could slip and fall, slamming your head in the shower and die, but that doesn't stop you from showering. Theoretically, you could get in a car accident at any time anywhere but that doesn't stop you from driving? There are unlimited other theoretical risks that don't even enter your mind and you don't live in a plastic bubble (which theoretically could suffocate you), so why would you be so hyper focused on this one particular theoretical risk, which is no different than all of the other unlimited theoretical risks that exist in the human experience?

[GordBub]

Yeah I am aware of that. Irrationality I guess? Anxiety? Guilt from what I have done knowing that HIV diagnosis from this will change my life as I know it? Crazy I know. I don't worry about any of the things you mentioned, health however, I worry a lot.

Also it is hard accepting the 'theoretical risk' statement as I differentiate 'theoretical' and 'low'. Although maybe I do not understand theoretical then. Many websites you read state 'low' or 'negligible' risk. Quantifying these statements is hard, especially in an anxious mind.

I mean I wish more than anything I could go back to my old younger self and not even think about this risk as presenting any kind of relevance, as I know many many people around the world do. Chances are if I were single right now, I wouldn't be giving this a second thought, I would never have typed into google 'oral and HIV', this quite clearly shows guilt is the biggest protagonist at play here. However my irrational mind has fixed the fact I must have HIV due to the 'low'/'theoretical'/'negligible' risk given.

Looking at it another way I do try and rationalise. I mean I can search the internet and find people that believe and try to prove certain things are 'real'. Such as flat earthers. I literally believe, 100% believe those people are wrong. However if I used irrational thought processes over this I am sure I could believe it. Unfortunately there is no clinical test for that!

Ok why don't for example sites call kissing low risk when surely kissing is also a 'theoretical' risk. I mean two people can exchange blood kissing? Surely this is the same as oral, yet kissing seems to totally ruled out on pretty much all sites, yet oral still is 'theoretical' and 'low'. This is what my mind grabs onto, and I don't let it go.

[CurfewX]

If ONE person has ever been suspected to have contracted HIV in a particular manner, it's no longer a theoretical risk.  But a 0.0001% chance of anything is still a statistically insignificant risk.

No one in science or medicine is going to put anything at 0% risk.  That's just not how it works, in the same way that no test for any disease is 100% accurate.  99.99% is the highest I've seen.  It allows for errors and freak accidents.

Look at it this way - Iceland has no known mosquitoes.  However, no one will tell you there are absolutely zero mosquitoes, and that there is a 100% chance that you cannot get malaria after visiting Iceland.  Does anyone even think about getting malaria in Iceland? Do people test for malaria after visiting Iceland? NO.  If they did, it would be irrational and obsessive.

At this point it is abundantly clear that your problem is not HIV.  It is guilt and obsession over your act.  If you aren't able to overcome this by yourself, professional counseling is in order so that you can live your life free of irrational thoughts.

[GordBub]

I understand.

I have had counselling before, which helps. The main thing for me is when I am not busy, such as at the moment work wise, my mind creates chaos, literal chaos.

I am constantly checking bodily functions for something wrong, I think my newly acquired small love handles are ascites, which they clearly are not. I do understand my issues, but trying to separate what is my anxiety issue from something which is not I find very hard. Yes sure this HIV worry is mainly anxiety right now, but I always believe that this time is the last time it will be my anxiety, much like the boy that cried wolf.

I understand all answers given will be the same regarding HIV until I test. It is still an interesting topic of conversation, just not when you believe you have contracted a life altering illness.

Can I ask, and I do have a good idea of this due to my extensive trawling, but, how many posts do you think you have seen much like this one in regards to oral and HIV, and how many of those have come back + or have you guys been wrong about?

Thanks all for humouring me,

[Chima7]

I've been coming to this site for probably 10 years and I've Never seen anyone with your same type of exposure come back and say they tested positive. But I have seen countless infinite anxiety and guilt ridden people with the same exposure as yours test repeatedly negative and argue with us about how the tests are wrong because they're so convinced they have HIV. Tests for HIV are among one of the most accurate in terms of any lab testing out there for any disease under the sun. So all of these countless numbers of people are being totally illogical and 100% wrong and their focus should be on finding a therapist to get over their phobia instead of obsessing about a disease that they were never exposed to in the first place and for which their repeated tests have proved over and over again that they don't have.

[CurfewX]

^^What Chima said.  I've been around for 6 years, and have read thousands of posts - possibly tens of thousands by now.  Only 2 people have returned in that time, positive for HIV, and both of those people had well-known, high risk exposures (unprotected intercourse).

[diver58]

First of all, I am not convinced that you have HIV because of obvious reasons. :)

Secondly,,,, status of the escort was unknown, and there is a strong possibility that she is not infected (because escorts or others in this profession love their lives too) .So with this starting assumption, your risk drops down very significantly.

Performing oral sex on a woman,, Let us take it this way. Vaginal fluids are infectious, no doubt. But on the other hand, when some of the vaginal fluid comes into our mouth, it first meets with our saliva, before contacting any mucus membrane there. It is Nature's blessing that our saliva contains several enzymes, capable of inactivating the virus instantly.

So here your overall risk reaches to a negligible level, that means a risk of theoretical or academic nature, without a single case reported and documented.

Coming to your questions now

1. No it is not a risk, no matter how many "what ifs" you bring to the table
2. If you visit credible websites like CDC (normally take a conservative approach), they rank cunnilingus as a "negligible" or very low risk. And interpretation of such risk has already been mentioned
3. It is very good that you think that way and care for others also. As far as we are concerned, your risk is non-existent so there is no harm in continuing your normal matrimonial relationship. However only for your peace of mind, if you are willing to get tested before resumption of your relationship with your spouse, you may do so by repeating the duo test after another 2 weeks. This is not needed clinically though
4. Day 13 Negative Duo test gives you reassurance and we are sure, your 28 days test will not be different from what you got, because you were never exposed

[GordBub]

Hi Diver,

I like your name, I am also a diver!

Thank you for the reply.

I am trying my best to get over this anxiety and move on from this. I am still awaiting my result of the first DUO test even though it will most likely only tell me my HIV status before this incident which I am sure was negative. (This will be my 4th HIV test in the last couple of years due to anxiety)

I guess one of the points I am trying to come to terms with is this theoretical risk. I have been thinking like this to ease my fears. ' The majority of people know to practice safe sex, condoms. If this theoretical risk was real and HIV were to be transmitted through oral there would surely be further reports and cases of this as in these cases oral would be the only means of transmission.' I also believe that many people wouldn't get tested for such an event, my friends and brother have all re-assured me that they would not be even thinking of HIV after such an event. Now my friends and brother are really no different from your average young male, so by that statistic there would be many many more people living with HIV and passing it onto others unknowingly from oral sex over the years. Heck I mean I have done this many many times over the years and never been tested after, and when I would meet new partners and become sure I was safe and practice unprotected sex I wouldn't think **** I did cunnilingus this one time, I probably have HIV.  I also believe that while yes Escorts maybe at more risk due to the number of people they interact with, they are careful about every meeting, where as your average promiscuos young person would most likely not be so careful with every meet up.

I know I am thinking maybe too much into this but please humour me.

Also with the creation of dating apps like tinder, now more than ever oral sex happens on a regular basis with people that do not know each others history. Yes many use a condom for penetrative sex but oral is seen as safe by many people in regards to HIV. And I guess that thinking is correct.

It is a crazy thing, this thought process and anxiety. When I mention this to people or talk to my close friends, I can see pure disbelief written on their face at my anxieties.

I guess I just have it in my I head, I am that ONE guy who will be able to categorically say, I got it from oral.

Thanks,

[diver58]

Delighted to learn that you are also a diver.

On a lighter note, you are not going to get your name registered in the Guinness Book of World Record by reporting the first man ever on the planet, acquiring HIV from unprotected oral alone. :)

Though transmission of HIV is not a game of numbers and probabilities, however just to dilute your anxiety, let me run some mathematics for you

Assume HIV + population in escorts belonging to a developed country is 0.5% and probability of getting HIV from oral sex alone is 1:50,000. So the cumulative risk comes out to be 1 out of 10 million. (1 x 0.5/(50,000 x 100). A probability even lower than some one getting hit by lightening.

Having said that, it is a fact that there is no documented or reported case of HIV from oral exposure alone in the history of HIV, spread over 4 decades.