high cholesterol

[joep1980]

Hi I am 35 (83kg lean)& lead an active lifestyle with plenty of walking & weight training.Diet wise I eat a large amount of vegetables (organic where possible),avocados,bananas & melon, eggs (mostly organic), plenty of nuts, lots of oily fish, some chicken & red meat about 1/week& have been using a lot of coconut oil to cook most of the beg & fish I eat. I also eat organic potatoes/squash cooked in CC oil or avocado oil after my training sessions.Also have occasional rice/oats.
Did a cholesterol test using the Mission 3-1 meter and results were very high. Total 319mg/dl, HD 100,Tri 86, LD 184. My BP is always excellent & CRP 0.2mg/L. Did have a root canal 7months ago followed by 6months of digestive issues which happen a week after taking a course of antibiotics. Is it likely to high a diet in protein/cholesterol & digestive issues giving these high readings? thanks

[erijon]

Well how are you! it seems like forever since we last traded messages to discuss these issues. Hope you are well, are you still riding?

To your point, let's remember how plant sterols work. On a molecular level they resemble LDL molecules so they get absorbed as such in the small intestine which blocks the absorption of LDL. The research I read would suggest that only 10% of our total cholesterol is affected by diet  (cholesterol absorbed by the small intestine) so if someone has a TC over 300 they could conceivably see a best case reduction of say 30 mml by affecting that 10%. A reduction of 30 mml would still not bring a TC reading within guidelines. So using plant sterols could lower LDL by 15% but still fall short. I'm sure there will be outliers that will see better results, but the meta-analysis including almost 240K participants over periods up to 15 years show that the majority of the participants with high TC and LDL are due to genetics and will not be altered to a high degree by die alone. I can send you the link, it is very interesting and convincing enough for the FDA here in the states to drop it's warning about dietary cholesterol, that's a major shift.

Send me a note and let me know what's up and maybe we can discuss this more off forum as to keep this one on topic. I've been away more than here for the past year or so due to work, now I'm back and just getting up to speed again.

[is_something_wrong]

I forgot to say: All medical treatment (including medications) is free here, so there's probably a political motive behind the guidelines (to save money).

[is_something_wrong]

Your (very interesting to read) post was a bit unclear; do you refer to 10% of cholesterol can be affected by cholesterol intake, or by diet as a whole?

Some reports say that ingestion of 2-3 grams of plant sterols (which block cholesterol uptake) can lower cholesterol by 10%. So that makes sense, if that's what you mean. Regarding 10% as a whole, if I'm eating a low carb diet high in saturated fat (which I don't tolerate) - in addition to getting a lot of palpitations, my cholesterol can be 7 mmol/l. On a diet low in saturated fat and high in fruits and vegetables, I can get as low as 4,5 mmol/l.

My cardiologist told me that if I were a US citizen I would have been treated with statins. However, high cholesterol is so common in Norway that guidelines for treatment are different. As long as the blood pressure is fine and you're not diabetic and you don't smoke (all of those three apply to me) they tend to wait until you get CAD before treatment is initiated. It's completely ridiculous in my opinion.

Hope you are doing fine, by the way. Long time no see

[skydnsr]

I'm guessing that the removal of your post was probably about the tone of it.  There was a bit of bashing in it, to be honest.  I think you will find that disagreements are fine here, if done politely.  This forum is a bit different from some, in that aspect.

[ed34]

I agree, I was told years ago that diet accounted for 20% of cholesterol and yet I was eating hardly anything. 10% sounds far more realistic. You can change the levels of HDL and Trigs to a greater extent with diet, but LDL is a thing with the Liver.

[erijon]

First off, I have not even suggested meds, I'm not sure where that comes from. The only point I'm making is based on the most recent information released. Based on recent studies it has been determined that our diets only account for 10% of our lipid levels therefore someone who needs to drop their lipids by 30% won't get there with changes in diet alone. This is a simple assumption as their current diet is already influencing their lipids. If it is indeed true that their dietary choices are already driving the 10% affected by diet, they will not be able to reach their goal of 30% by diet alone.

So, what can be done. Exercise promotes the natural creation of HDL which will help eliminate LDL. Also, losing weight promotes more HDL, this is where diet can have an impact. Also, eat foods high in omega 3's as you state nuts and fish. Certain fats, Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fat, found in olive, peanut and canola oils tend to improve HDL's anti-inflammatory abilities.

But to say one can lower their cholesterol by simply cutting cholesterol out of their diet is an incorrect statement. To he OP's point, no a diet high in cholesterol is not likely to be causing their high LDL levels, that was the point I was addressing.

[Circa49]

I think the readers can see your response is to a post of mine that no longer exists.   I did not remove my own post.  
Apparently someone complained.   My post had a alternative view to some of your prior statements.

Now, you state as fact that  "diet has been proven to make up less than 10% of lipids in the blood stream"

It would therefore seem impossible that a individual could lower their Total Cholesterol from 225 to less than 165 using diet alone.

Medhelp is run in coordination with the Cleveland Clinic.
I find it odd that  you hold such narrow views on cholesterol lowering,  when Dr. Mladen Golubic, MD, PhD, Medical Director of the Cleveland Clinic's Center for Lifestyle Medicine fully believes that much more cholesterol lowering can be accomplished via diet.
No, he is not adverse to the use of meds to help.  but he hardly casts the limits you seem to place on diet as a very strong tool for those patients who are motivated..

Patients should not be given the impression that diet cannot make significant changes in cholesterol.   Not in everyone,  but clearly in many who are highly motivated.  Lets not make it sound like the facts are otherwise,  thus giving no incentive for those who ,might try.
Not every patient needs to rush directly to meds.
Lets not limit how much a individual can do for himself via lifestyle by telling him it just won't work.

I say that as a person who has done both a very large change in diet, but one who also chooses to take a statin for additional benefits.

[erijon]

You need to stay current, here you go;

http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015-scientific-report/PDFs/Scientific-Report-of-the-2015-Dietary-Guidelines-Advisory-Committee.pdf

The dietary warnings on cholesterol have been lifted as diet has been prove to make up less than 10% of lipids in the blood stream, it's more about your body and how it makes and uses cholesterol.

Certainly a healthy diet is always better, but has now been proven that high cholesterol can not be controlled by diet alone.

[erijon]

Actually, your diet most likely has very little to do with your lipids. The FDA has recently dropped the warning about dietary cholesterol. The problem is more about how much LDL your body makes and how well it recycles or eliminates excess LDL. That's why it is important to work with a doctor as you can't lower it with dietary changes alone.

[skydnsr]

Your ratios are good, though.  I'm not even sure if your current levels are a health threat, but if my TC was 319, I'd be uncomfortable with the idea of that, just like you are.  Some people have more of a genetic propensity to respond to saturated fat with increases in blood cholesterol than other people do.  You may simply be one of those individuals who are sensitive to saturated fat.  Getting rid of the coconut oil may be enough of a change that you can keep on eating your current level of meat and dairy.

[ed34]

I agree, especially if it's the synthetic variety in packets.

[skydnsr]

Coconut oil, as a saturated fat, can drive up LDL for some people.  I would try eliminating the coconut oil and retest.