Episodic PVCs and exercise....

[IMFletcher]

I have read many posts regarding episodic PVCs...I have been suffering from PVCs for years, but only experiencing long lasting episodes with higher frequency of PVCs for the last few months...The odd PVC is manageable, but the runs of PVCs every few beats for hours at a time are very hard to cope with. These episodes seem to hit me out of the blue...sitting, standing, sleeping...morning, noon or night!! The sensation is alarming, and I can feel them through my whole upper body, especially in my chest and throat...Has anyone who suffers from longer lasting episodic PVCs ever tried to exercise during an episode? Does this sound a little crazy?? My PVCs seem to usually occur when my heart rate is lower...I have had occasional incidence after working out, or the odd PVC while running or biking, but they usually happen at rest. I am wondering if getting the heart rate up may jolt the system into "resetting" itself, and break the episode...Any thoughts?? If the PVCs are actually benign, then I can only assume there is NO risk to exercise during an episode??

[erijon]

I've been on a long run of bad days with my PVC's, several months actually. When mine get to a point that I've had enough, I'll go work out and mine will be completely gone. I need to get up to about 120 BPM to get them to stop, but once they're gone I usually get a few hours of relief. I'll get a few more transitional PVC's while I'm warming up, but then I'm good to go.

Jon

[goingcrazy1029]

Not sure about the correlation but up until the Christmas holidays, I was walking (that is my exercise) frequently and my PVCs were more sporadic. Then the snow and cold weather came. My PVCs increased to almost daily and many episodes a day. Then between the weather and feeling horrible, I didn't exercise. Just came back from Disney where I walked about 30+ miles during a 5 day period. I had one bad night but other than that I felt pretty good. Unfortunately, I am back in the cold and miserable weather but I am going to make every attempt to get my butt out there walking ASAP.

[beanhead2010]

I don't know about any risk while exercise. But for me when I began exercising my Pvcs almost completely disappeared. So now that I'm pregnant and have stopped working out they are back with a vengeance.So as soon as I pop this little man out I'm starting working out again.

[PVCS_GONE]

At around age 60 pvcs started (~5% to 10% of beats) - noticed b vit seemed to increase/strengthen them. Tried mag, fish oil, many Chinese herbal formulas - all made the pvcs stronger.
Then tried taurine, l-arginine, l-carnitine (500 g of each/day - 200 lb male). pvcs decreased after 2 weeks, gone after 4 weeks. Can now take b vit supps  - no problem unless I stop the tarine, l-a, l-c.

[PVCS_GONE]

Had a problem with PVCs during exercise for months. Had 500+ during 4 hours of xc skiing while wearing a Holter. Then I read about rice contaminated with arsenic and things clicked - problem started when I began eating a lot of organic brown rice - ~5 cups of flour, gbars with brown rice syrup and hot rice mush for 2 or 3 breakfasts per week.
I stopped the rice and took an over the counter heavy metal cleanse and in 3 days NO MORE PVCS!
Hope this helps.

[PVCS_GONE]

Had a problem with PVCs during exercise for months. Had 500+ during 4 hours of xc skiing while wearing a Holter. Then I read about rice contaminated with arsenic and things clicked - problem started when I began eating a lot of organic brown rice - ~5 cups of flour, gbars with brown rice syrup and hot rice mush for 2 or 3 breakfasts per week.
I stopped the rice and took an over the counter heavy metal cleanse and in 3 days NO MORE PVCS!
Hope this helps.

[Mom2four85]

I did find what I was looking for with one of your questions.

When our heart rates are low, we tend to feel pvc's more because of the early beat not giving the heart enough time to fill adequately =)

[Mom2four85]

I've fainted since I was 9 and started having arrhythmia's around the same time, but I can't remember exactly the time frame, but fainting was the primary thing esp with exertion or exercise.  

Dr's checked me out and I was told it was for attention when I was younger, then later as an adult, they said it was no big deal as long as I didn't faint on a daily basis - it was all stress related or I was exaggerating the symptoms.  

So when this happened in 2009, I started questioning what did they miss? what is there that was normal and then suddenly malignant? does your heart really do that? I can't even imagine that happened - somewhere they've missed some crucial piece of the puzzle and dismissed symptoms...what and why?

I've asked questions after questions hoping to find answers so others don't go through what I have, all I've come up with is more questions.....If I didn't have the test results in front of me, I would question what I'm going through lol it seems impossible but it happens and there are no answers.

what's interesting is, my echo shows no structural problems and my ef was perfect at 55-60% yet a few short weeks after, my ef was 40%, my dr's were quite amazed that I had polymorphic VT and said they did not have any warning from my tests - I think it's coined - cardiologists worst nightmare

[curmudgen]

Reading between the lines I sense that you are searching for a reason for your palpitations even though you have no coronary heart disease - been there and done that.  Sometimes we have to accept that for no reason out-of-the-blue we get episodes of PVC's.  Yes a slower heart rate allows PVC's to occur more frequently and increasing your heart rate discourages them from occurring. That doesn't change the fact that for some unknown reason they occur.  I have decided that I must trust my doctors and accept the fact I have benign episodes of PVC's.  Sorry if I am preaching to the choir.

[IMFletcher]

Interesting. I am sure many would agree that your situation is somewhat alarming, as it puts a benign diagnosis into question. Were you experiencing the additional symptoms (fainting, dizziness etc) on a regular basis? was that the primary issue?? I am trying to understand how doctors would know that there is something potentially more serious going on... most PVC sufferers aren't referred for an EP Study. I think everyone on this site shares the same dark concern that the doctors have missed something, as in your case. Fortunately you caught it. I am sure it is rare that this happens, but concerning none the less...

[Mom2four85]

=) that's why I started the other thread; ...sorry for the rambling

exercise pvc's and patients being scared of exercise is kind of on base with some of your questions/concerns in some of your posts; especially since I've been told different things....I tried to answer some of them like these:

"Has anyone who suffers from longer lasting episodic PVCs ever tried to exercise during an episode?  
My PVCs seem to usually occur when my heart rate is lower...I have had occasional incidence after working out, or the odd PVC while running or biking, but they usually happen at rest.
I am wondering if getting the heart rate up may jolt the system into "resetting" itself, and break the episode...Any thoughts??
If the PVCs are actually benign, then I can only assume there is NO risk to exercise during an episode??"

my treatment was an ablation which didn't work, meds - only Inderal works for me and a defibrillator in case my heart stops again.  

My polymorphic vt and cardiomyopathy did not show up until I had an EP Study and then a cardiac cath 3 days after, until that time I was told I had no structural heart problems and benign pvc's :P

[IMFletcher]

Sorry for my sloppy post - typed very quickly..."accept" not "except". "likely" not "like".

[IMFletcher]

I agree we need a doctor to update us on the incidence of malignant arrhythmias....when are we supposed to worry??? I have had a full cardiac assessment, and they captured my PVCs during an episode...diagnosed as benign...I never have experienced shortness of breath or chest pain, or any real "symptoms", just flip flopping sensations when the PVCs strike...I am trying not to second guess my diagnosis, and except that the PVCs are benign, and not a malignant arrhythmia...My primary focus on this thread was to discern if anyone has tried exercise as a cure for episodic PVCs...I would imagine that if an arrhythmia was malignant, there would like be some presenting symptoms beyond just PVCs?? I would also hope/expect that having all the cardiac tests would show the problem? But, what do I know?!?! Thanks for your comments, btw - what is your treatment?

[Mom2four85]

I think it's a very small amount if you look at the rates of all arrhythmia sufferers - I'm too lazy to do the math lol 1 out of a million; 5 million or 10 million arrhythmia sufferers; I'll have to find the exact numbers.

according to the NCBI http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2913541 About 5 percent of arrhythmias are serious, life threatening, malignant arrhythmias (MA) and is regularly associated with organic heart diseases and the most common MA is normally VT -sustained VT

Most people feel pvc's when the HR is low, while many do not feel them when the HR raises and exercise actually helps some - it has something to do with the hr being low, I'm still looking for that thread where the MH dr explains it - feeling them when hr's are low is a very normal common thing.

I had pvc's constantly... from April 2007 until August 2009 day in day, not a minute went by that I didn't have them every other beat or 3rd beat...over 50,000+ pvc's daily...what a PAIN...I've had Bradycardia, Tachycardia, PVC's, VT, NSVT, VFib, couplets triplets salvos', PAC's, PSVT all caught on tests & monitors and dr's have no clue why.

I know what you mean about doctors....before I fell and broke my foot in June 2009 many dr's told me nothing was wrong - even though I had complained of fainting, dizziness, shortness of breath, chest pain, pvc's, palpitations.  I was exercising and they didn't really interfere with my daily activities so they didn't care....pvc's showed up on my Ekg's and they said - it's all in your head and stress related; relieve your stress levels; luckily I went to a new primary when I broke my foot or I would have died.

I'm one of the rare ones who had no structural heart problems (check my test results in my journal), Echocardiogram on July 6, 2009 said I had no structural heart problems, yet on Aug 26, 2009 I went in for an EP Study and was dx with malignant arrhythmia's... so it can happen =)

[IMFletcher]

Looks like we have a lot of similarities including our age. I just had a full series of cardiac tests, as mentioned above. How was your condition diagnosed? I am not completely familiar with Afib...have you been instructed NOT to get your heart rate too elevated? What are the treatment options??

[IMFletcher]

Interesting posts. Despite the low percentage, I must admit the thought of 1-5% of PVC's being "malignant" is concerning...If you have had all the cardiac testing - graded stress tests, ecg, echo, blood work, chest x-ray etc, and given the all clear, then I hope that rules out the possibility of PVCs falling in the dangerous range...The general sense I get from reading and speaking with doctors is that "in the absence of any heart disease or structural problems, PVCs are benign"...My issue is that I feel the PVCs where many others don't. I get episodes lasting for hours where the PVC's occur every few beats...thankfully, the ECG at the hospital picked them up...I thought I had the smoking gun, but the doctors seemed completely uninterested in the result...All tests, and doctor consultations have resulted in the same diagnosis...Benign PVCs...I find they are most common during periods where my pulse is below 90 bpm....although I do feel the odd PVC before, during or after running...My theory is that if I can get my heart rate up, during an episode, possibly the PVCs will subside or stop al together...Seems like a few have tried this, and had some success...

[Mom2four85]

here's some info I did find and also the recovery pvc thread was back in Sept 2010 and somewhere recently in the expert forum the dr did explain why we tend to feel pvc's when resting or our heart rates are lower (still looking for that link)

The NCBI article says this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2390697/

Although exercise-associated ventricular arrhythmias are frequently observed during exercise testing, their prognostic significance remains uncertain; however exercise PVCs correlated with tachycardia.  

here's the full publication I found; not sure what else there was but I couldn't find anything:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18227372

Resting PVCs, age, and systolic blood pressure were key predictors of both exercise and recovery PVCs.  I don't see median age ranges listed and again I think the Significance of exercise and recovery PVCs unclear as is pointed out in the article

the conclusion was interesting: CONCLUSION: In our heart failure-free population, recovery PVCs;  but not exercise pvc's were associated with increased mortality and augmented established risk markers.

I really do believe from all the research and reading that arrhythmia's can contribute to weak hearts as we age and CAD and the proof is in many studies and why there's an almost doubled propensity-adjusted mortality rate as we age, it's important as we age to exercise to keep our hearts strong.  

Sounds a lot more simple than life really is :P

[Mom2four85]

there was a discussion about exercise and pvc's in the heart disease forum last year; it's probably way buried but there was some great info in there (i'll see if I can find it) and a post in the HR forum in the past few months about exercise induced pvc's.

there's been much debate about it and studies are questionable about pvc's during exercise and recovery; I've questioned this alot because on top of having runs of pvc's and VT sometimes at high rates like 190's I've fainted since I was 9 with exertion & exercise and i still don't know the cause

I've always exercised; walking, running - even long distance running in school; did weight training and cycling my entire life until I was 42 and my LV function decreased and EF went down then I was dx with cardiomyopathy.  

I had a treadmill stress test that showed the dr my quirky whacked out heart and what it does when I exercise...bp won't go up, hr goes up but I have NSVT runs and pvc's couplets, triplets then my bp/hr drop and I faint :P

btw, 95-99% of pvc's are benign; there is that 1-5% chance to have malignant pvc's...very very rare but it does happen - mine are malignant arrhythmia's - polymorhpic ventricular tachycardia and I was dx with it and no structural heart problems...after I was dx and my ef went down I developed cardiomyopathy

[tazgymuk]

I've been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. The funny thich i didhing is i don't get an elevated heart beat , just flutter in the chest. I've had, ECG'S, Echoes. X rays, bloods. 24 hour tape and traed mill test. I'm 40, prior to this i use to workout 6 times a week, 3 times a week a 4.4k run in 20 mins the 5 three mins round on the bag. The other days weights. I was told to stay clear of the gym, which i did for a you.month. Now i've returned back for about 4 weeks, plenty of weights, no runnig=ng or boxing. I've been tyold strenoud activity would result in me fainting. Can anybody clarify this for me please as i'm confused after reading the above, thank

[Wes2175]

My PVC's are hardly ever present during exercise... however every once in a while I'll get hit by one or two while running. The scary thing is they are very pronounced, like I'm kicked by a mule (along with a sort of electrical charge shooting down my chest). This has happened a number of times and really worried me because of the intensity of the sensation. I usually try to walk it off but often feel lousy for hours later. One of the many weird things that sometimes happens.

[erijon]

That's too funny, I have been known to hit the exercise bike at 2:00 AM before so I could make them stop and get some sleep. I was having a bad morning so I headed out to the fitness center and did a few hard miles on the treadmill. I have a few extra PVC's as I transitioned my heart rate but then they were gone, so nice.

I sometimes wonder afterwards if they are really gone or for some reason I can't feel them as much as before I exercise. I check my pulse afterwards so I can feel  one sometimes, but hate to start looking for them. I sometimes think I just don't tend to feel them as much after I work out but they are still there.

[curmudgen]

The PVC's are bad enough during the day.  I can't imagine being awakened by them.  I just can not figure out what makes them episodic.  I get them from about 11 am to early evening.  Some days none at all  and on other days, oh well you've been there.  Even though all my tests come back completely normal I really don't feel like exercising during an episode.  Usually I do a lot of walking, but so far this winter the snow and ice have curtailed that activity.  

[jkfrench]

Ha!  I have gotten up in the middle of the night and did sit ups and it actually worked!
Fortunatelly it doesn't seem to happen to me much at night.  Maybe because I run around 5:30 and don't have problems after that.  Mine seem to kick in around early morning and then go for a few hours with maybe a 30 minute break, then again for a few hours.

[IMFletcher]

Thanks for your reply. I run or bike daily, so I may very well give running a shot next time I have an episode. I sympathize that it must take a significant amount of mental toughness to convince yourself to run while your heart is flip flopping...BUT, getting the pulse up, and having a good workout sounds like it may wipe out the problem...if so, it is a win-win proposition...work out, and eliminate a bad episode of PVCs!...the only problem is - what happens when it hits you in the middle of the night?!?