PVC runs?

[Fran71]

Hi all, this question is for Connie and anyone who has experienced PVC runs. Sorry, this is the latest interest with me...LOL.

Lately I get these strange PVCs where I feel not just 1 strong beat in my chest, but 2 or 3. I assume these are couplets or triplets, but if they were, I would be getting them all day, and I think it's kind of unlikely since my holters never showed 1 single PVC run, not even a couplet. They might be bigeminy, but I think I could recognize begeminy. I'll tell my cardio eventually. I know they are benign, but my question is: those of you who have PVC runs, can you actually count the number of premature beats from what you feel in your chest? I can clearly feel them, they're very strong. I read that extra beats can hardly be felt, and the thumb in our chest is actually the stronger but normal beat.

Any input?

Thanks!!!

Fran

[Momto3]

Please tell your Dad your friends on the forum wish him the very best!!

Did you know you could set up a profile on MedHelp?  If you have a profile, your screen name will be in blue. Beside other special features, members that have profiles can email messages via the forum.  If you decide to create a profile (it's entirely optional), you can be as discreet or as telling as you like.  

Remember, tell your Dad we're rooting for him!!

[Fran71]

That's so weird, Connie! Why did the values go down only right before surgery? HMMM I guess we'll never know. Great fruit helped!

I feel better with my PVCs. Coincidentally, my father had an angiogram which showed he must undergo bypass surgery!! He'll have it next week. So now my worries are shifted toward that...Let's hope for the best.

Thanks

Fran

[Momto3]

That's great news!

I never tried the supplements.  My blood counts for mag and potassium were always normal UNTIL two days before the ablation!!  Can you believe that?  The blood tests were part of the pre-procedure workup.  So like two days before the ablation, my doctor called and suggests I eat cantaloupe and bananas and anything else high in potassium.  I could not believe it!  I never had low potassium...how ironic.  She said they would recheck my blood counts on the morning of the procedure before going ahead with the procedure.  The fruit worked great and it was off to the lab for me : )

Keep us posted!!

[Fran71]

Hey guys! My cardio already replied to my mail where I told him I now feel some different, longer  PVCs. He said it's all normal, many people without symptoms have even triplets and the like, and only told me to get regular ECGs. He also suggested I try magnesium and potassium supplements. I'll try, no harm in that.

OK, so now I feel relieved!

Thanks everyone for your support about this

Fran

[Fran71]

I have no idea where to get it...I'll try to find out!
I have nothing against natural remedies. I just feel that when my tachy and PVCs get wild a BB is the only solution for now.

[Barbmag]

Where do you buy this tea? I have never heard of that kind and I drink several diff herbal teas from the Health Food Store....Yogi, etc and I have Calm in my pantry. I also take a cal/mag supplement but in spite of taking supplements, I still get PVC's and other palps. I am anxious to try the Oatstraw tea!!

[Fran71]

Thanks so much for your wisdom and also for the tip! I did try magnesium supplements and they didn't decrease my tachy and PVCs. I also tried other natural remedies, but never tried oatstraw tea! I could certainly give it a shot.

Thanks

Fran

[Fran71]

Thanks so much, Artaud!
I bet you were very frightened...Thank god it was nothing. So weird about your ECGs showing a heart attack that never occurred...

I did email my cardio, if he doesn't reply I'll call him eventually. The difference between what you and Connie said about PVC runs and the way these strange beats feel is that mine seem to be slower than yours. I can clearly count them by the pounding in my chest, and even when I take my pulse they feel strong. So maybe it's just my heart adjusting to a single PVC...
My holters never caught PACs, but I was at the ER one time and the ECG there recorded PACs as well. So yes, maybe I'm getting runs of PACs, or maybe both PVCs and PACs, and their combinationy feels weird.
My cardio said that developing PACs was not a bad thing. He said it showed that there is nothing wrong specifically with my heart, and that I don't have a heart problem.

Anyway I'll let him know, just to be safe, and follow his advice. But I don't think I may be having anything worse than very short runs, as they're not longer than 1 second.

Let's hope for the best! I loved your greeting..."best of health and rhythm" to everyone!

Fran

[Artaud]

Hi,

Really, they happen so fast that I don't think I could get my fingers to my other wrist in time to see if I can feel them as individual beats. It's just a brief flurry of activity. Very rapid. As I said, in my case, my Cardiologist said that they were insignificant.

You should consult with your Cardiologist, perhaps you could be given a loop event monitor. Hearts can do some strange things. Whether or not any rhythm for any person indicates that his/her heart is developing more problems needs assessed by the Cardiologist. But, over the years I have suffered through many really weird stuff, and I'm still here.

My wife and I, driving to Pittsburgh from Martinsburg West Virginia, were about half way here, everything is going great, the birds are singing, the windows open, not a care in the world. Suddenly, my heart goes nuts, no discernable pattern. I'm coughing and coughing, trying to break the pattern and return the rhythm to normal, but no luck. I thought I was a goner, pulling to the side of the highway to stop, when suddenly, the rhythm returned to normal. Like nothing I ever felt before or since, so I go to a nearby Hospital Emergency Room, I believe in Berkeley Springs West Virginia. Mind you, I am in a normal rhythm now, just shaking like a leaf from the fear. I am taken back to the room for examination, and they hook me up to the EKG. I notice their sullen faces, and now I am really concerned. I ask them about the EKG, and they said they saw something abnormal on it. They phoned the Internist that I was seeing at the time, send the EKG to him, and he says that the EKG is just like my others, and for them to give me an extra Inderal that day (the medication I was using at the time) and send me on my way. They looked dumbfounded, but did as they were instructed.

It turns out that every EKG that I have done, on machines that Automatically Interpret the results, said that I have had a Heart Attack (actually it says that there is indication of an old inferior MI of some sort). I have seen Cardiologists for years, they say that the result is from the way my heart lies in my chest, in relation to the leads, and the readings generated by the EKG are not relevant. My wife works for my Cardiologist, and he has turned off the Automatic Interpretation Feature on the machine they use in the office. If he is not in the office when an EKG is done, the results are faxed to him and he makes a personal interpretation.

Also, I have experience what I thought was Ventricular Tachycardia, oh my, I did not like that at all. So I was given a 30 Day Loop Event Monitor, I catch the rascal on the monitor, phone it in to the Technical Center, and in an almost bored tone the woman says “oh, you had a little PSVT there”. It happened a few more times, but their lack of reactive responses on the issue quieted my mind, and I stopped getting them.

Reading a response by a Doctor on this forum, the Doctor told the forum member that several PACs in a row could give the feeling of the rapid heart rate the woman described. I’m also wondering if you could be experiencing very brief runs of PSVT? As I said, I would get periodic and very brief runs of PSVT.

Like someone said, don’t focus too much on the issue. Keep in touch with your Cardiologist, and see if he/she thinks a Loop Event Monitor would be helpful.

Best of Health and Rhythm.

[klanac]

You can get it at a Health Food Store. Also take 500 mg of Taurine in the am and pm. Taurine is the most important and abundant free amino acid in your heart and contributes to your heart muscles contractibility and regulation of its rhythm. Can you get Brewer's Yeast? The heart needs a lot of B vitamins and this is full of them.

[bonnytiz]

Hi, thanks Artaud and Fran for those explanations, they are very clear, Ive never really understand exactly what is going on, dont like the sound of the runs, they sound horrid, luckily mine are PVCs,thousands of them but benign, the b/blockers are helping though.
Klanac, never heard of Oat straw tea dont know whether its available here in UK, I will have to check it out. Thanks.I have tried taking magnesium as my consultant recommended it and it worked at first but isnt doing anything now so I have stopped it.
Thanks everyone

[klanac]

I have had these off and on all of my life and I am 68 yrs. old. Don't sit and listen in to them or they will drive you crazy. Here is the thing that worked wonders for me. In the evening before  you go to bed drink a cup of oatstraw tea with a tsp. or two of Natural Calm powdered magnesium mixed in. Add the mag. slowly after the teabag and hot water are in the cup or it will foam way up and over. I was getting bad palpitations,etc. and once I started on this everything stopped and I feel great.  I read in a book by Susan Weed that Oatstraw tea will make the disturbances in your heartrate such as palpitations & tachycardia diminish or disappear. It did for me. The magnesium helps also for this problem.

[Fran71]

Artaud, I was re-reading your post. You say you can feel the runs in your chest. This sounds like my PVCs. If you have a triplet, for instance, can you count the 3 extrabeats? I can, if that's what they are. If I am progressing from isolated to complex PVCs, do you think that means my heart is getting worse?

[Fran71]

Hi and thanks to both!

It's funny but my strange PVCs don't fit either in bigeminy or in the runs category then...I mean, they don't seem to fit LOL.
I do think they're not bigeminy because I don't feel any compensatory pause, but the fact is, I can clearly count them from the way my chest pounds, usually just 2 or 3. If I feel my pulse, I feel my HR increase for 2 or 3 beats, then go back to normal. But the beats in my pulse are not weaker, as it should be if they were PVCs.

All very strange! Anyway, I've decided to email my cardio just to let him know.

I've been having these strange beats very frequently. I find it hard to believe that all of my isolated PVCs have suddenly turned into couplets or triplets! But I really don't think they are bigeminy. Maybe they are PACs?? Oh this is so confusing!

Thanks for trying to explain :-).

Fran

[Momto3]

Hi Fran!

I agree with Artaud's comments.  For me, he's right on the money.  There is a very distinguishable difference between how a run and bigeminy feel.  When I'm in bigeminy, I can count the beats.There is a very clear pattern.  If I were to try and take my pulse, it would feel as though it were around 40.  But, the doctor explained the whole premature beat and compensatory pause thing and now I know that in reality, my pulse is approx. double what I can feel.  It's the quiet beat before the compensatory that is very hard to pick up.  I was at the CC and a doctor checked my pulse, which I thought was around 40...he came up with 78!  

As for runs, I am not able to count the beats.  It is more like how many seconds it lasts.  It is like my heart is tumbling over itself.  Think of a bowl of jello that is not quite set.  You know how it is jiggly?  Well, that sort of describes how my heart feels during a quick run.  It lasts a few seconds and then everything goes back to normal.  It is very fast beats that get all jumbled together.

Hope that helps.  

Ciao
Connie

[Artaud]

Hi,

Runs are very different than Bigeminy, and if you have had the displeasure of experiencing both (at different times) you would know the difference without doubt.

When I thought I was having Bigeminy, strictly by the feeling in my chest, and the results eventually were observed on an EKG, I was told that it was Trigeminy. Finding it difficult to believe that their diagnosis was correct (which it was) I occasionally began to take my pulse at the wrist whenever I could feel the arrhythma. Lo and behold, it was Trigeminy, as I could clearly feel two normal beats and a PVC, repeating of course for several seconds to a half hour or so.

Bigeminy, by taking your pulse, you will feel a normal beat and a PVC then a normal beat then a PVC, etc.

Runs, on the other hand, at least in my case, just produce a series of bangs in my chest, without any apparent normal beat in between. The ventricle is repeatedly contracting without a normal beat in-between. It's quite different than Bigeminy.

Strumming your fingers on the table may give you some idea of how quickly a run may progress. Start with your little finger and progress towards the index finger, doing it very quickly.

With normal PVCs, rather than think of them as extra, think of them as premature. People seldom feel the premature beat, but they do feel the harder than normal beat that occurs after what is referred to as a compensatory pause. They feel this harder than normal beat because the heart filled with more blood than normal during the pause, and when the next contraction occurs, the ventricles ejecting this additional volume causes the thumping sensation.

From online medical sites I found the following definition of Compensatory Pause: "A pause immediately following a premature complex that is longer than the interval between two normally conducted beats, allowing the rhythm to proceed, without any alteration of cycle length, around the premature complex. In essence, the pause compensates for the short interval preceding the premature complex and allows the rate to proceed on schedule".

So, if you had Bigeminy, a PVC would be followed by a Compensatory Pause followed by a normal beat. This is quite a lot of time, relatively. On the other hand, Couplets or more represent sequential activation of the ventricles, something that is remarkably different in feeling from Bigeminy.

Having called my Doctor after experiencing a few couplets one morning, I found him to be quite irritated with me. He told me (that in my case at the time), that, knowing the results of my recent testing, the couplets were meaningless. I was not too pleased with his attitude, as he went on to tell me that he has patients with serious problems to take care of. Not a nice bedside manner. (figuratively).

My wife works for him, and he shortly phoned back and moderated his original attitude somewhat. My wife says that he has a quick temper, but is thorough, as he will ruminate about a patient while in his office, then come out and say "we had better run this test just to be sure that nothing is wrong". She says that he has discovered problems with patients that have nothing to do with their heart, just by their symptoms, and has successfully helped them through things that their Family Doctors have missed.

Anyway, if you or anyone in this forum, or their family or friends, ever feel threatened by pains in the chest, sweating, dizziness, odd rhythms, etc. ALWAYS call your Doctor to get advice, or go to the Emergency Room. (This is for everyone, not directed in your direction ;-)

Be well.