Want to cut out atenolol

[zagnuttt4]

Hey guys, I am 30, male, never had any PVC issues until about 3 years ago.  Doc put me on atenolol 50mg about 7 months ago.  It helps a 'little' for PVC , but I fear it's causing other problems.  I get tired very easily and am always tired, lightheaded, and just foggy headed and out of it.  My feet seem to always be cold, and my hands and feet go numb and asleep very easily now. My resting heart rate is very low and I feel this is contributing.  I want to taper off this drug, but have been on for 7 months.  What is the beat way?  

[easysqueeze]

I am surprised that a Dr would feel the need to put you on a BP med for 140/85.   The goal for most BP management is to get readings below 140/90.  Meaning 139/89 is generally acceptable.   Exercise and diet should have been the first line of attempting to reduce what does not seem like an urgent situation requiring medication.   Were there other symptoms like anxiety or panic attack that perhaps the Dr was attempting to use Atenolol to resolve?   In any case, if any particular med is not producing desired results, it's best to gradually reduce dosage towards coming off such.   Yes, abrupt withdrawal of a Beta blocker is not advisable. However, you can start reducing dosage and monitor things.   You need to be involved in your health decision by keeping notes and reading credible materials so you can be an advocate for your own self while working with your Dr.   Remember, Drs have hundreds of patients to see weekly and they can't keep up with every patient meticulously.    

[Alfosauruz]

My History: 1995: (I was 170 pounds) In France, they put a Holter on my arm during 24 hours. They found nothing abnormal about my blood-presure: Went to live in the USA (Massachusetts): There, "some" doctor D. began to annoy the **** out of me with a H.-B.P. of 140/85. I abade the authority of this big man of Sciences & I took various anti-blood pressure meds. After a three years taking these products, I began to feel chronic fatigue & gained a lotg of weight. It' s been tern years I have been taking all sorts of anti-blood-pressure meds; Now I am sick, gained 50 pounds, am chronically exhausted all the time, can't lose weight, became pre-diabetic, got some rhumatoid troubles (discal herniation & abdomçinal syndrom similar to Krohn disease's one), can' t stop Atenolol 50, neither Cotareg 120/ 165 mg, nor Loxen 50 mg, risking severe cerebral vascular accident or worse if I dare stop any of those three poisons.  What' s more is that my high blood-pressure is still at 190/60 listening to those criminals ! Thanks  for killing people, "Doctor Roberts !" ... I had no idea I was a communist ! Now I know everybody would become one. If nobody would radicalize before having been victims of Medicine enactions like this one, now I understand that some would have some reasons to just want to fight these doctors, in order for Humanity to survive. Alfie

[zagnuttt4]

Hi Madge;  

It's interesting that you mention that.  I have thought about this in the past and have wondered if my tap water here is missing minerals.  I've experimented with going long periods of time drinking my coffee (and also just water) from pure tap water and also other times using bottled water.  At work, I drink a lot of actual coffee made from tap water, but usually don't drink any tap water straight from the tap.  Even though my blood tests always show my calcium and magnesium at 'normal' levels, I still take a magnesium supplement on most days.  It does seem like the magnesium helps a bit, but maybe I should try calcium as well?  I'm also not quite sure which form of magnesium or dosage would be best for me.  Right now I am taking 500mg of Magnesium Oxide per day.. I usually chew up the tablet before I drink it down, hopefully increasing absorption by at least a small amount.  Nonetheless..  I've been unable, as of yet in any case, to eliminate the atenolol.  I'm starting my weaning process OVER again, this time cutting down slower to see how that goes.  I'm really having a hard time getting off the drug, and at the same time, actually taking the drug is adding to many of my side effects.  It makes me super tired, very lethergic and sleepy all of the time, plus I get exerted (is that a word) very easily.  

[Madge270]

My doctor asked whether we had reverse osmosis water at home. We do, because of a large cattle farm in the area.  We had traces of herbicides and other not so good things in our well water and now have a separate reverse osmosis water system for drinking and cooking water plus rinsing foods. It's very pure...so much so that many of the minerals are gone...such as magnesium, calcium...you get the picture.  Doctor suggested a low dose combo of calcium, magnesium, and D3, plus a multivitamin with minerals. My PVCs have been cut dramatically.  I only mention this because some drinking water is highly filtered and alot of the minerals are gone.

[zagnuttt4]

I am definitely going to try the natural sea salt.  I never even gave thought to the regular salt being refined.  I'm going to get some tomorrow!

[mzak69]

Regular salt has been refined and most of the natural minerals removed. Try the natural sea salt. Drink a few glasses of water every day and a dab of the sea salt with it. It's cheap, and I do see a difference.

Wouldn't it be funny if the cure to these PVCs is more water/salt? Let me know if it helps you.

[DeltaDawn23]

I have taken Atenolol for years, in 1/4 doses (of a 25 mg. tablet, up to 2 tablets) and monitoring my bp and heart rate at home.  If my bp goes down too far, I  delay the next dose.  I have Afib and runs of tachycardia. Atenolol is much better for me than the Toprol XR I was on originally.  My cardio says Atenolol does not pass the blood brain barrier, so it would produce fewer symptoms.I cannot imagine being on the higher doses you're talking about.  My blood pressure and heart rate would drop like a stone.  All the things mentioned earlier, more sleep, less stress, no caffeine, etc. should help.  Good luck  

[zagnuttt4]

Mzak69:

it's actually funny that you mention that!  the other day, just for kicks, I tried upping my sodium intake by mixing salt into water a few times through the day and drinking it like that.  I did feel a bit better by the time evening came around.

[curmudgen]

I agree with you that keeping hydrated and adding a dab of salt works...my PVC's seem to have disappeared as well after increasing my water/salt intake.  There is no question that for some of us our PVC's are due to subtle electrolyte imbalances and electrically sensitive heart cells...

[mzak69]

Here's something you haven't heard of; The water cure and Celtic sea salt. Google it.

I too am dealing with PVCs and I am drinking more water along with a dab of sea salt a few times a day. I can't tell you for sure if it's working, but I do feel better and have had less PVCs.

Another thing I noticed when I have bouts of PVCs; drinking a glass of orange juice seems to help. It could be the potassium.

I sincerely think the source of these PVCs is an imbalance of electrolytes (potassium, magnesium, calcium, sodium). You may have to experiment with some supplements (ask your dr first) and see if it makes a difference for you. Good luck.  

[Cgd1]

Great! Glad to hear that things are going well for you. Blood pressure looks like it is keeping pretty stable. Please keep me posted. Sorry for the delay in my response. I have been out of sorts for a week or two. I have been having some bad runs with my pvc's. The doctor has referred me to an EP because I am having what could be runs of v-tach. They just haven't caught any on a monitor yet. This is totally unrelated to weaning off of the atenolol...btw. I was having these runs before I ever started weaning off of the atenolol. Keep up the fight. I look forward to hearing from you.

[zagnuttt4]

Finally got a home BP monitor!  Resting pulse is 51.  BP average is 122/90. Still on approximately 40MG per day (right now) of atenolol.  Starting tomorrow AM I'm going to cut down to 25 mg / day for 1 week.  Will post BP statistics along the way as a form of log for weaning off.  

[zagnuttt4]

The funny part is, when I discussed the tapering-off process with my cardiologist, he acted as if nothing bad would happen if I just quit cold turkey.  There's no way I would even consider doing that!  I've noticed negative side effects even cutting down from 50 mg per day to 30 or 40 over the course of a couple of weeks.  I sometimes break it up even more throughout the day, taking a very small piece about 4 times per day that equals out to about 40 mg.  It seems to work well that way for at least easing the PVC's a little bit, however, it still produces the negative side effects that I'm used to experiencing on this drug.  I am hoping to just slowly wean down to nothing.

[Cgd1]

By the way...make sure you talk to your doctor about tapering off. There can be some nasty side effects. I wouldn't just go off of it without the doctors permission. Beta blockers are very touchy meds.

[Cgd1]

Thank you for the well wishes. I hope things work out for you as well. When I say 1/4 of a pill I do mean 12.5mg...sorry...:-). I have 2 bp monitors (a wrist cuff and arm cuff). Look around at your local stores for deals and eventually one will go on sale. That is how I got mine without paying alot. It is a good idea to your monitor to your doctor to make sure it is calibrated correctly though. Sometimes the store bought monitors aren't accurate. At first, the Atenolol seemed to control my PVCs, but it gradually stopped working for me. At first, my pulse was ok also. But, over time, my pulse started getting lower and lower. It could have to do with the fact that I now have left ventricular hypertrophy or enlargement of my left ventricle. I'm not sure honestly why it started working differently. High blood pressure is considered 140/90 or higher. A one time reading of 90 is not bad, but if you continue to get high readings it would not be good. So, I would definitely try to get a home monitor just to keep an eye on things. Best of luck and please keep posting about how things are going during the weaning process.

[zagnuttt4]

I meant to say my BP at the cardio was 120/90  !!

[zagnuttt4]

Hi Cgd1;  

Wow, I hope things even out for you.  That was basically my goal as well.  At one point, the doc had me on 100 MG per day!  I weaned down to 50 and stayed at that level for about 4 or 5 months, but I could not stand the side effects anymore.  So, I have slowly weaned down to about 40 mg per day.  My resting pulse is still very low, sometimes also hitting the 40's just like you.  When you say 1/4 pill, you are basically taking 12.5 mg at that time, correct?  Also, how do you take your blood pressure without actually going to the doc?  I wish I could take mine at home, then I would be able to better and more granularly track my progress. As far as PVC control, have you found that ANY dose of the atenolol actually helps the PVC's?  I feel like it just suppresses the intensity of the PVC's, but again, I'm not sure if the side effects are worth it.  My BP at the cardio was 172/90...  I've never seen the bottom number that high for me before, but I don't know what is 'high' or not.

[Cgd1]

I am currently trying to wean my dose of Atenolol from 50mg to 25mg daily. My cardiologist suggested that I do so since my resting pulse rate was reaching the 40s at times. I have a very sensitive system so my reactions may not be true of everyone. But, I had to start taking 1/4 of the pill 3 times daily. I have been doing that for about 2 weeks now. At first I was extremely jittery and anxious, but things seemed like they were evening out a little last week. So, I decided to try to wait 12 hours between my first 1/4 pill and my second. I have been having some bad reactions. My pulse jumps well over 100 upon standing and my bp is reaching 167/100 at times. Mty cardiologist told me not to worry unless it got to 170/110, although he prescribed 2.5mg of Norvasc which I am reluctant to take. I am a real worry wart. Anyhow, this is where I am currently at. I am right now trying to make it 12 hours before my next dose. My current resting pulse is around 85-90. My bp is on the high side at around 144/100. I am bound and determined to stick this out. Btw, I have PVCs, sinus arrhythmia, sinus bradycardia, and sinus tachycardia. I am 35 years old. I have been on atenolol for about 5 years. I would love to hear how things go with you. I am certain it won't be as hard since you just have PVCs. :-) Good luck!

[zagnuttt4]

just an update, I'm going to try and document my next two weeks as I attempt to wean off atenolol. Currently at about 40mg per day.  

[zagnuttt4]

I saw the cardiologist today and just wanted to post a quick update.  My resting pulse at the doc averaged out to be 56, average BP was 120/90.  Isn't that bottom number kind of high?  I explained my atenolol concerns to the doc and he said there may be a couple of ways to wean off, although all of his options were much more abrupt than what we've been discussing.  Basically, he said I could either quit cold turkey with minimal rebound (which I am totally NOT going to try), or he said I could go from 50 down to nothing in a course of about a week.  I still don't think this is conservative enough based on our discussions here.  I'm thinking about starting off by taking 25 mg right before bed, and about 12 mg in the morning for about a week.  After that, i'm thinking about cutting out the morning dose altogether, leaving a single 25 mg dose at night before bed and staying like that for about a week.  Then slowly cutting down on that single dose over the course of about another 2 weeks until I'm down to nothing.  I would also like to take my BP each and every day multiple times, but I'm not sure the easiest way to approach this.  How expensive and/or involved would it be for me to obtain the equipment and expertise to take my own BP each day at home?  I would also like to ideally see my resting pulse up above 60 again, not because I think a higher pulse rate is better for extending my life, but rather because I don't want to feel like a zombie all day anymore!   What do you all think?

[zagnuttt4]

Thank you Ida and Upbeat, the encourgement really does help.  I'm normally a very positive person but these PVC's have really had me down in the dumps, well, and the atenolol side effects too!  I've never even heard of the older betablocker you speak of, but, I could certainly ask the cardiologist about it and see what he thinks.  

[upbeat63333]

Ida22's list is very good, I might add that supplementing with magnesium can be helpful for some folks. And slow, DEEP breathing seems to help me. Maybe that mimics exercise because you are taking in more oxygen?

Also, I just wanted to send encouragement to you to keep positive. I used to post to this forum several times a day for months and months and months. There are a lot of good people here with good information, and lots of support.

I've had high frequency pvcs since age 18.

The pvcs just kept increasing every couple of years. By age 45 they were up to 28,000+/- a day. I tried atenolol, propanolol and another I can't remember.

Finally I saw an EP and had my mind set on getting an ablation. But he said he would never consider an ablation for a benign condition and recommended an older beta-blocker called sectral (aceabutelol). I was skeptical, but it worked.

Not only did it bring down the pvcs to 200 to 500/day, but I didn't get all the side effects like I did with the other BBs, the same side effects you are experiencing.

The EP recommended 200mg to 400mg which seems high compared to the others, so I was scarred to take it. But it is the lowest dose possible for this drug.

I initially divided the capsule in half, to 100mg to get used to it. While he said it would have no effect at that amount, I did it anyway. And I took it at night, so that if it did cause me to be tired, then I'd have a better sleep.

Ask about tapering from atenolol, ask if another beta-blocker like aceabutelol might benefit you with less side-effects, and try to follow Ida22's list.

Good luck!

[Ida22]

My doctor has suggested that I should try atenolol. I don't think that I going to try this drug. Before I tried selo-zok (another betablocker). I had a lot of side-effects; fatigue, freezing, headache, cold hands and feets, blue nails. It felt as I was in another world, I couldn't focus. In daytime my pulse was 30 bpm. then I didn't know that its a kind of low heartrate. It really sounds like atenolol has the same effects as selo-zok...

You can find a lot of tips to reduce PVC's:
- stay away from caffiene, sugar and other stimulants like nicotin.
- some say that magnesium will help, but ask you doctor about this: in some cases it can make things worse.
- Omega 3 seems to help somebody.
- Dark chocolate with no added sugar also helps some people.
- potassium (you get potassium from bananas).
- quite drinking alcohol or reduce the consumption.
- if your out of shape then exercise can be helpful.
- get enough sleep.
- reduce stress
- eat regular, keep your bloodsugar stabile through the day.
- Take multivitamins
- stay hydrated

Im sure you can find a lot more on the internet. you just need to try to see if anything  helps you. we are all different. Ask your cardiologist if he got any advices. I'm sure that he speaks with alot of people with pvc's, so he must have heard something... :)

I really hope that you'll get some energy. Its terrible to feel exhausted all the time.

good luck!

[zagnuttt4]

Thank you all for the well-wishes regarding my upcoming appointment on Wednesday - I am certainly going to ask about the proper schedule for weaning off of this drug.  I agree that most of these side effects are directly related to the atenolol.  I guess what I would really like to do is get to the source of these PVC's, but I'm beginning to fear that I will always have them.  I was at Mayo clinic once already for them and actually thought about going back again.  They told me the same thing that every other doc so far has told me:  PVC's are normal, some people are more prone to them, minimize trigger factors and learn to live with them.  Sometimes it seems almost impossible to believe that this is a benign problem, especially when I go days and sometimes weeks at a time in complete trigeminy and sometimes even a week in a row of bigeminy.  I've never had a stress test, but i have had multiple EKG's, Holter, Event monitors, and an Echo.  Everything on every test so far has been normal, except for the PVC's.  I would love to hear anybody's suggestions on how to minimize them, or at least anything that you've found to minimize them.  I am willing to try nearly anything at this point.  Literally the only time I don't have them is during exercise, which I don't get nearly enough of.  Admittedly, though, the atenolol is depleting my energy.  I can relate to Jannie411 in the above post;  I am also exhausted by the end of the day, although I could easily fall asleep most any time.  On the weekends, my wife gets mad at me because I fall asleep instantly in the middle of the day,nearly almost every weekend.  Sounds like every husband's dream (lol!), but I just want my energy back!   Does anybody have any tricks or tips or 'home remedies' that they've used to combat PVC?