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How do we reverse bone density loss and grow it back?
Is there such a way to do so? I understand how to try and avoid it with the supplements but what about growing it back if it is a concern? My main concern comes from my last lab where my Crosslaps: 1.26 ng/mL which may suggest I'm with Osteoperosis. This came on suddenly.
I have had yearly DEXA scans while on my clinical trial for Vemlidy but the doctor has not shared those scans with me for probably 5 years and last time I asked, I got all my labs EXCEPT this last year where they told me those results take longer to get (after almost 2 1/2 weeks). I know this is on me to follow up with them more, and I have another one scheduled in October, but I definitely want to understand if I am losing bone density these past few years and will be asking for the results more.
My bigger concern is now with this medication causing tons of bone density loss, as much has been happening with my jaw, cheeks, TMJ joint and neck this past year and a half.. all of which need surgery. I've already started with a tooth removal, but I'm concerned the surgeries I need will not work if bone density loss is there, especially if it requires bones to grow and fuse in the surgery.
Anyway, figured I'd ask some advice here in case someone has any. Hope everyone is well! :)
I have had yearly DEXA scans while on my clinical trial for Vemlidy but the doctor has not shared those scans with me for probably 5 years and last time I asked, I got all my labs EXCEPT this last year where they told me those results take longer to get (after almost 2 1/2 weeks). I know this is on me to follow up with them more, and I have another one scheduled in October, but I definitely want to understand if I am losing bone density these past few years and will be asking for the results more.
My bigger concern is now with this medication causing tons of bone density loss, as much has been happening with my jaw, cheeks, TMJ joint and neck this past year and a half.. all of which need surgery. I've already started with a tooth removal, but I'm concerned the surgeries I need will not work if bone density loss is there, especially if it requires bones to grow and fuse in the surgery.
Anyway, figured I'd ask some advice here in case someone has any. Hope everyone is well! :)
So I got my last DEXA scan back, though I'm a little unclear why so much seems left off the report. I'll share what I can here:
L FemurNeck BMD = 0.926, BMC = 4.6, Area = 5.00, TScore = -1.1, ZScore = -0.7
L Femur Shaft BMD = 1.155, BMC = 17.8, Area = 15.38, TScore = NA, ZScore = NA
L FemurTotal BMD = 0.960, BMC = 31.8, Area = 5.00, TScore = -1.0, ZScore = -0.7
L FemurTotalAdequate BMD = 0.960, BMC = 31.8, Area = 33.08, TScore = NA, ZScore = NA
L FemurTrochanter BMD = 9.4, BMC = 9.4, Area = 12.70, TScore = -1.7, ZScore = -1.6
L FemurWards BMD = 0.691, BMC = 1.9, Area = 2.78, TScore = -2.1, ZScore = -1.5
That was all that was shared with me. Keep in mind, I'm on TAF
L FemurNeck BMD = 0.926, BMC = 4.6, Area = 5.00, TScore = -1.1, ZScore = -0.7
L Femur Shaft BMD = 1.155, BMC = 17.8, Area = 15.38, TScore = NA, ZScore = NA
L FemurTotal BMD = 0.960, BMC = 31.8, Area = 5.00, TScore = -1.0, ZScore = -0.7
L FemurTotalAdequate BMD = 0.960, BMC = 31.8, Area = 33.08, TScore = NA, ZScore = NA
L FemurTrochanter BMD = 9.4, BMC = 9.4, Area = 12.70, TScore = -1.7, ZScore = -1.6
L FemurWards BMD = 0.691, BMC = 1.9, Area = 2.78, TScore = -2.1, ZScore = -1.5
That was all that was shared with me. Keep in mind, I'm on TAF
12 Comments
-1.5 is considered normal after 45yo but i dont like losing bone mass, bone mass will get worse and worse as you age and is a loop between weakened bones and inflammation of close tissues feeding more aging itself
on the other hand tenofovir is more potent on hbsag lowering, especially when it is less than 800iu/ml and also more potent on hcc prevention
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333792754_Switching_from_Entecavir_to_Tenofovir_alafenamide_versus_maintaining_Entecavir_for_chronic_hepatitis_B
Switching from Entecavir to Tenofovir alafenamide versus maintaining Entecavir for chronic hepatitis B
Switching from Entecavir to Tenofovir alafenamide versus maintaining Entecavir for chronic hepatitis B
Hey Stef,
Sorry to hear about you experiencing bone loss symptoms. I am sure this is reversible and you will beat this too.
I wonder why you have chosen ETV over TAF? you don't really trust TAF?
I am also curious to know what is the mechanism that TF causes bone loss? I remember we were thinking the bone loss is not caused by TF directly but because of vitamin D deficiency and we were thinking if we increase our vitamin D levels, we should not worry about the bone loss. Seems like this is not the case then...
I was listening to this podcast and found it interesting..
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/the-best-10-minute-a-day-workout/
This guy, John Jaquish, is talking about how to massively increase your bone density and your muscle with just 10 minutes a day. He has invented a device called Xbar (X3bar.com )which is basically a variable resistance device and claims that using this device, he has been able to reverse his mother's bone loss. Not sure how valid is his claim. Anyone has any experience with this?
Sorry to hear about you experiencing bone loss symptoms. I am sure this is reversible and you will beat this too.
I wonder why you have chosen ETV over TAF? you don't really trust TAF?
I am also curious to know what is the mechanism that TF causes bone loss? I remember we were thinking the bone loss is not caused by TF directly but because of vitamin D deficiency and we were thinking if we increase our vitamin D levels, we should not worry about the bone loss. Seems like this is not the case then...
I was listening to this podcast and found it interesting..
https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/the-best-10-minute-a-day-workout/
This guy, John Jaquish, is talking about how to massively increase your bone density and your muscle with just 10 minutes a day. He has invented a device called Xbar (X3bar.com )which is basically a variable resistance device and claims that using this device, he has been able to reverse his mother's bone loss. Not sure how valid is his claim. Anyone has any experience with this?
Hi Aydin1358, humeral head osteonecrosis has been confirmed, it is very rare so tenofovir is probably the cause together with the trauma, i read a study about tenofovir bone loss, tdf boosts resorption and slow down building new bones, it was a quick read so i may miss something.aft was not available at my hospital but i prefer entecavir 1mg anyway
if anyone has osteonecrosis in the future Teriparatide has shown case reports of disease reversal.all other treatments just stop progression
Well, I did my DEXA and my doctor told me the following. They have not provided me the numerical results of t or z score:
I am 41 years old male and have been taking TDF since 2012. What do you guys think? I should switch to TAF now? and should I also supplement calcium?
Today’s DEXA justifies labelling the patient as having Bone Density low
for chronological age BMD (based on the Z score result(s) for the lumbar
spine.
Due to age, unable to use the patient Questionnaire and the FRAX web site
to calculate the 10 year risk for any major osteoporotic fracture and the
10 year risk for a hip fracture.
The patient is not a clear candidate for prescription drug therapy for low
bone mass based on today’s results and the current NOF Treatment
Guidelines. However, the guidelines do not apply to men under age 50.
Consider evaluation for secondary causes of low bone density for
chronological age.
Recommend optimizing Calcium and Vitamin D intake. Consider repeat DEXA in
2 years. If comparisons are needed, recommend repeating the DEXA on the
same machine in the future.
I am 41 years old male and have been taking TDF since 2012. What do you guys think? I should switch to TAF now? and should I also supplement calcium?
Today’s DEXA justifies labelling the patient as having Bone Density low
for chronological age BMD (based on the Z score result(s) for the lumbar
spine.
Due to age, unable to use the patient Questionnaire and the FRAX web site
to calculate the 10 year risk for any major osteoporotic fracture and the
10 year risk for a hip fracture.
The patient is not a clear candidate for prescription drug therapy for low
bone mass based on today’s results and the current NOF Treatment
Guidelines. However, the guidelines do not apply to men under age 50.
Consider evaluation for secondary causes of low bone density for
chronological age.
Recommend optimizing Calcium and Vitamin D intake. Consider repeat DEXA in
2 years. If comparisons are needed, recommend repeating the DEXA on the
same machine in the future.
after 45yo they consider it normal to have osteopenia but if you have osteopenia already at 41yo tdf is not a good choice.you should have tscore to understand how you are
update, a doctor/researcher checked my case and said bones are healing/no inflammation and that the small area of osteonecrosis on humeral head will make no trouble.he said teriparatide not needed in my case the bone already healed itself and will continue to heal, he suggested another mri by 3 months to confirm and physical therapy to strengthen muscle loss.next year i will recheck dexa but i m sure i will recover bone loss due to tenofovir, studies show recovery after 6-12 months after stopping tdf or switching to taf
Hi Stef,
I am glad to hear that and happy for you. fingers crossed!
My doctor told me I have osteoporosis at my spine and I switched to taf since last week.
What should we do regarding optimizing vitamin D and calcium? Should we start eating a lot of foods containing calcium in addition to our daily intake of 10,000 iu vitamin D3. Before I diagnosed with osteoporosis, I was trying to avoid calcium containing food and even with that my recent blood levels are:
Vitamn D3: 86 ng/ml
Calcimu: 9.4 mg/dl
PARATHYROID HORMONE, INTACT: 29 pg/mL
So it seems even though I was not taking calcium too much, my blood level calcium levels are good.
Any suggestions regarding calcium intake with food or in supplement form, in addition to vitamin D3?
Thanks
I am glad to hear that and happy for you. fingers crossed!
My doctor told me I have osteoporosis at my spine and I switched to taf since last week.
What should we do regarding optimizing vitamin D and calcium? Should we start eating a lot of foods containing calcium in addition to our daily intake of 10,000 iu vitamin D3. Before I diagnosed with osteoporosis, I was trying to avoid calcium containing food and even with that my recent blood levels are:
Vitamn D3: 86 ng/ml
Calcimu: 9.4 mg/dl
PARATHYROID HORMONE, INTACT: 29 pg/mL
So it seems even though I was not taking calcium too much, my blood level calcium levels are good.
Any suggestions regarding calcium intake with food or in supplement form, in addition to vitamin D3?
Thanks
i also eat no dairies but researcher told me the best source is organic vegetables (i eat a lot of them) so not important in my case.he said to keep supplements like vit D and K2 but i'll keep calcium supplements as well.i take vit d to keep my levels around 100ng/ml, vit k2 mk4 45mg with meals (vit k2 mk7 had less effect on my mother's osteoporosis so i kept mk4 although more expensive and i take also mk7 from bone restore calcium supplements from lifextension).calcium blood levels don t say too much because body keep it in balance but a value around 10mg/dl would be good)
chia seeds are a super source for calcium and nutrients, they are good added to salads
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/11-proven-health-benefits-of-chia-seeds
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/11-proven-health-benefits-of-chia-seeds
update: nerixia, the bisphosphonate that i m using, should fix bone density to +3-4 by 1 year.plus prostaphane sulforophane and butyrate should max out treatment response.of course calcium and vitamin d are mandatory otherwise none of these will work especially nerixia.they don t treat bone loss at -1/-1.5 but i think this is big mistake because you can easily and totally reverse bone loss, i suggest all those on tdf to supplement at least to prevent bone loss
3 Comments
Sounds great. Keep me posted please how it goes please as I've got clients with Osteopenia and if it can help then that'll be great.
it will take sometime to recheck by dexa scan because i dont like xrays exposure often.if i find the new ultrasound machines i ll be able to recheck by 6 months
i switched to entecavir 1mg because my last mri showed possible osteonecrosis of humerl head.i'll soon repeat that with 3 tesla mri at a better center to be sure plus my bone oedema has not recovered yet, only improved by 7 months.this is so bad that it is best to leave tdf totally and my bones are now much more important than liver
i had a bone oedema on my shoulder after a swimming trauma and i strongly suspect bone loss due to 10.6 years of tdf.i m going to check dexa scan soon, is this cross laps test very reliable?i used vit d3 and k2 mk7 and now mk4 too for prevention and i'm now using prostaphane (only active sulforaphane available on the market) 40mg daily, on mice studies it made a 20% bone density gain in 5 weeks.for bone oedema i'm using IM nerixia (which works for both bone oedema and osteop).i did notice my back is very straight now and only good effects from it, no sides except injection is very painful, it should be only 8 injections and another 8 if mri shows oedema is still there
10 Comments
i haven t yet studied all drugs for osteoporosis but i think they do work today although they are weak and that supplements are needed too because bisphosphonate build up bone density but not bone quality.dexa is also very outdated because it can t measure bone quality but new ultrasound scan machines are not easy to find and traveling to find one is not the best choice now
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6676208/pdf/etm-18-03-1661.pdf
luckily italy has the most advanced doctors in the bones filed so i started checking latest conferences on this subject, a very good doctor and personalized treatments are the most important chioces.they say drugs, life style, supplements, food quality diet and early intervention are very important and you can reverse it by early intervention while advanced osteoporosis with fractures is not reversible
luckily italy has the most advanced doctors in the bones filed so i started checking latest conferences on this subject, a very good doctor and personalized treatments are the most important chioces.they say drugs, life style, supplements, food quality diet and early intervention are very important and you can reverse it by early intervention while advanced osteoporosis with fractures is not reversible
Hi Stef hope your well.
Isn't there enough sulforaphane in foods? In its synthesised form is it absorbable?
On the trial as I'm no longer on treatment they told me I can supplement with anything I want.
I'm thinking after my next visit when I do DAXA scan then I can try PROSTAPHANE ( I'll need to lok into i a little further first) and then judge the bone density from there 6mths later . In all fairness with TAF my bone density didn't decrease it improved slightly but then again I was doing alot resistance based exercise aswell,
Isn't there enough sulforaphane in foods? In its synthesised form is it absorbable?
On the trial as I'm no longer on treatment they told me I can supplement with anything I want.
I'm thinking after my next visit when I do DAXA scan then I can try PROSTAPHANE ( I'll need to lok into i a little further first) and then judge the bone density from there 6mths later . In all fairness with TAF my bone density didn't decrease it improved slightly but then again I was doing alot resistance based exercise aswell,
Isn't there enough sulforaphane in foods? In its synthesised form is it absorbable? no, it gets formed only when breaking uncooked broccoli sprouts, the only way to make enough is explained by rhonda patrick, too complicated.most pills have very little precursor and quantities not even stable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19QFaV9Lj5I
rhonda video
rhonda video
if i find decreased bone density i ll have to switch to taf, i m just worried my low hbsag might go up....i have seen no studies on hbsag and taf, too difficult to say if it might be better or worse on my hbsag
got my bone scan and there is bone density loss, osteopenia around -1.5.this worries me a lot because i take vit d3 and vit k2 mk4/mk7, i also make antiaging protocols and my latest dna methylation clock is 40yo while being 49yo chronologically (my cells were 40yo 2 years ago and hope they re even younger now).so any guy with zero prevention and older might get much more damage from tdf.i called hospital but they say TAF is not available.....
it is not severe bone loss so treatment is not recommended, only vit d3 and calcium supplements...actually my diet was very poor as regards calcium and i hope to reverse this by adding calcium and sulforophane
Sorry to hear about the osteopenia bro the hospital not having TAF available did they say when it might become available ?
In terms of making the osteopinia static Resistance based training is the "go to" things but is not possible at present with your shoulder (at least for upper body for now).
What about using a re-bounder/ trampoline? For about 15mins per day?
As that wouldn't do your bones any harm and done correctly won't put pressure on the shoulder whilst its healing. Also NASA had I research paper about "G Force " that can create lymphatic pump which helps with immune boosting it could offer a dual benefit to 2 things you need you've got nothing to lose by trying I guess
In terms of making the osteopinia static Resistance based training is the "go to" things but is not possible at present with your shoulder (at least for upper body for now).
What about using a re-bounder/ trampoline? For about 15mins per day?
As that wouldn't do your bones any harm and done correctly won't put pressure on the shoulder whilst its healing. Also NASA had I research paper about "G Force " that can create lymphatic pump which helps with immune boosting it could offer a dual benefit to 2 things you need you've got nothing to lose by trying I guess
I've actually got the last two DEXA scans coming over to me as well, because I want to see what it looks like for me then will compare with the next one. I am actually trying to figure out a test result on my current lap tests:
COLLAGEN T1 CROSSLAPS
CrossLaps - 1.26 ng/mL and the range is usually 0.09-0.63 ng/mL
I asked the doctor about this and he said it is a research tool and not clinically significant to my care. Anyone have any clue on this one? Is it a bone marker of some sort?
COLLAGEN T1 CROSSLAPS
CrossLaps - 1.26 ng/mL and the range is usually 0.09-0.63 ng/mL
I asked the doctor about this and he said it is a research tool and not clinically significant to my care. Anyone have any clue on this one? Is it a bone marker of some sort?
Bro the only test result I didn't get back from my last visit was my DEXA SCAN and after chasing I started laughing and saying "you lot have lost my bone scan" then their saying no no its just bit of a back log. I think I've been told a bit of B.S
Ok I supplemented with Vitamin D3 for that very reason I do notice even now injuries can take a little longer to heal but then we are never getting older.
I'm sure when I looked it up before osteopenia can be reversable but not always.
Trampolining is a good option alongside weight bearing exercise. If anything else springs to mind i'll share it with you buddy.
Ok I supplemented with Vitamin D3 for that very reason I do notice even now injuries can take a little longer to heal but then we are never getting older.
I'm sure when I looked it up before osteopenia can be reversable but not always.
Trampolining is a good option alongside weight bearing exercise. If anything else springs to mind i'll share it with you buddy.
4 Comments
That is too funny that they would not share with you as well. I swear, I think they know it's causing bone density loss and want to hide it from the patients. I may go directly to the radiology place myself to get these reports instead of the doctor. I'd love to see what 2015-2019 looked like for me and then compare it to what I have done in 2020 here. I'll let you guys know for more as well. As you saw, my D3 was way too high. While I am not taking a direct supplement right now, I am getting enough from the sun and through the probiotics I am taking so I don't want to overdue it. That reminds me I should check my Vitamin D3 again soon just to see what was reduced since they asked me to stop taking the supplements.
Some times they make it up as they go along lol. Like they pay you for time off work but told me "nope your only getting paid for your travel" But in all fairness I am functionally cured so I'm not complaining and the level of testing we are privilege to have we are lucky to have Gilead in our corner
So I again asked for my results for the last two DEXA scans. I contacted the radiology place I went to and they told me they sent it off to my doctor and they have it. I contacted the doctor's office and I was told there was a problem with the file at the clinic they use for the DEXA, they do not have the results and are unsure of what the real problem is but promise to have some answers for me by this time next week at the latest, and hopefully have my results by then too.
Do you believe them?
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