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HepTech Products
Hello to all
I am new to the forum, although I have followed many threads. I have been told that my liver is moving towards or is in cirrhosis. This is not documented by a biopsy or any other scan, only blood work? I am going to consult with another prominent liver specialist this week.
I am considering trying the Hep Tech products and was wondering if any of you have any direct experience with these products. Many of the supplements that I have been taking for years, are the same as what is in the Hep Tech protocol. I noticed that the Milk Thistle is less than half of what I am taking ( Ultra Thistle). Many things that I take now are not part of this program. Is it true that the esteemed, elusive "HR" has joined the research team there?
All responses, the good, the bad and the ugly are welcome!!!
thanks.....delta_b
I am new to the forum, although I have followed many threads. I have been told that my liver is moving towards or is in cirrhosis. This is not documented by a biopsy or any other scan, only blood work? I am going to consult with another prominent liver specialist this week.
I am considering trying the Hep Tech products and was wondering if any of you have any direct experience with these products. Many of the supplements that I have been taking for years, are the same as what is in the Hep Tech protocol. I noticed that the Milk Thistle is less than half of what I am taking ( Ultra Thistle). Many things that I take now are not part of this program. Is it true that the esteemed, elusive "HR" has joined the research team there?
All responses, the good, the bad and the ugly are welcome!!!
thanks.....delta_b
My understanding is Heptech is preparing for a Human phase 3 clinical trial, and is now available in 11 countries...
Does anyone have any more information, or has anyone used it long term?
Does anyone have any more information, or has anyone used it long term?
Good on getting a genetic test.
For the cost of it I don't see why not get a fibrosure as well, a blood test, but if the doctor is really competent they may be able to approximate/ triangulate your staging from your labs and examinations. My point is that the test is cheap and fast and may offer one more assessment of your staging; same would go with a fibroscan, if available.
Most people do not end up with severe permanent side effects, but they do occur to small numbers who treat with interferon and riba.
I am waiting to treat myself, and so I understand the desire of stalling of the treatments if possible. In your case however you need to firmly keep in mind that your treatment window is finite, the alternative therapies are promising but do not have a lot of proof.....such as trials provide that you can bank on. Current therapies do have a reasonable amount of proof you can hang your hat on.
Having said that..... if you are going to try Hep tech products you are doing them under the supervision of a doctor and with lab tests, you are doing it the way that it should be done.
Further..... you will hear people tell you that they will not cure you, but if one is able to improve the state of ones health, improve LFTs or reduce fibrosis or other labs scores, (stefano reported improved fibroscan test scores) then it is possible that with improvement, even if one treated after 6 months that one could have a better chance at success with TX; call it pre-treating. If you see vital changes in your health in 6 months and in your labs or other aspects and your doctor agrees, perhaps you can forestall treatment longer.
I was under the impression that they had done some trials. If so there may be some proof of what the treatments do/ don't do. I'm sure that if you can come up with any data your doctor would be interested and certainly I would as well.
best,
willy
For the cost of it I don't see why not get a fibrosure as well, a blood test, but if the doctor is really competent they may be able to approximate/ triangulate your staging from your labs and examinations. My point is that the test is cheap and fast and may offer one more assessment of your staging; same would go with a fibroscan, if available.
Most people do not end up with severe permanent side effects, but they do occur to small numbers who treat with interferon and riba.
I am waiting to treat myself, and so I understand the desire of stalling of the treatments if possible. In your case however you need to firmly keep in mind that your treatment window is finite, the alternative therapies are promising but do not have a lot of proof.....such as trials provide that you can bank on. Current therapies do have a reasonable amount of proof you can hang your hat on.
Having said that..... if you are going to try Hep tech products you are doing them under the supervision of a doctor and with lab tests, you are doing it the way that it should be done.
Further..... you will hear people tell you that they will not cure you, but if one is able to improve the state of ones health, improve LFTs or reduce fibrosis or other labs scores, (stefano reported improved fibroscan test scores) then it is possible that with improvement, even if one treated after 6 months that one could have a better chance at success with TX; call it pre-treating. If you see vital changes in your health in 6 months and in your labs or other aspects and your doctor agrees, perhaps you can forestall treatment longer.
I was under the impression that they had done some trials. If so there may be some proof of what the treatments do/ don't do. I'm sure that if you can come up with any data your doctor would be interested and certainly I would as well.
best,
willy
All the supplements I took did not stop my liver from failing. It may have slowed the progression but I kind of doubt it.
When first diagnosed with decompensated cirrhosis, the doctor told my husband I had 5 years. 4 1/2 years later, I had my transplant.
Concerning the scary stuff about long term side effects:
it's a difficult topic. Yes, there is a possibility. The vast majority of people do not have them, nor do they post on line, saying, " guess what I did tx 3 years ago and have no problems!" They go on with their lives.
When cirrhosis develops further, you have little chance of success with treatment.
Personally, I think that since the supplements cannot stop the hep C, the best you can hope for is not progressing further.
How can your liver regenerate when hep c continues to attack it ?
Take it slow and easy.
Wishing you the best of luck.
When first diagnosed with decompensated cirrhosis, the doctor told my husband I had 5 years. 4 1/2 years later, I had my transplant.
Concerning the scary stuff about long term side effects:
it's a difficult topic. Yes, there is a possibility. The vast majority of people do not have them, nor do they post on line, saying, " guess what I did tx 3 years ago and have no problems!" They go on with their lives.
When cirrhosis develops further, you have little chance of success with treatment.
Personally, I think that since the supplements cannot stop the hep C, the best you can hope for is not progressing further.
How can your liver regenerate when hep c continues to attack it ?
Take it slow and easy.
Wishing you the best of luck.
I know, just saw another Dr yesterday who is the transplant director at one of the leading hospitals where I live. He concluded that I am in very early stages of cirrhosis. Although he said that I look great and my labs look great , he urged me to consider treating and wants me to get the 1L28b geno test. I agreed to that.
After being on this forum, I am terrified to start treatment..It would be worth it to be somewhat debilitated while treating, but it wouldn't be if I ended up with permanent side effects.
We are all different and these are tough decisions..I love you all for being so brave and concerned with each other. I just feel so good right now...and I am committed to taking everything single thing and doing everything else to support my liver...
thanks for caring and I truly hope that you continue to stay well..the Dr said the exact same thing that you are saying..I am going to continue with the supplements for the next 6 months and then get re tested, etc.
The Dr also said that he hopes that I prove him wrong in regards to the HepTech stuff....
After being on this forum, I am terrified to start treatment..It would be worth it to be somewhat debilitated while treating, but it wouldn't be if I ended up with permanent side effects.
We are all different and these are tough decisions..I love you all for being so brave and concerned with each other. I just feel so good right now...and I am committed to taking everything single thing and doing everything else to support my liver...
thanks for caring and I truly hope that you continue to stay well..the Dr said the exact same thing that you are saying..I am going to continue with the supplements for the next 6 months and then get re tested, etc.
The Dr also said that he hopes that I prove him wrong in regards to the HepTech stuff....
FYI: When diagnosed with hep C, I had decompensated cirrhosis.
I did interferon treatment and relapsed. I took many supplements, and I read hepcresarchers info which supported what I was doing.
My condition worsened, because of the hep C.
Then I had a transplant.
Last summer my biopsy showed the virus progressing towards stage 2.
I just completed treatment. Doing it while in a much healthier state, was also much easier. I'm undetected and happy.
I firmly believe the only reason treatment failed for me the first time was because I was already so sick.
If you have cirrhosis, you really should not wait. The supplements will help but as long as you still have hep C, you are fighting a losing battle.
But, as they say, it's your life.
Good luck.
OH
I did interferon treatment and relapsed. I took many supplements, and I read hepcresarchers info which supported what I was doing.
My condition worsened, because of the hep C.
Then I had a transplant.
Last summer my biopsy showed the virus progressing towards stage 2.
I just completed treatment. Doing it while in a much healthier state, was also much easier. I'm undetected and happy.
I firmly believe the only reason treatment failed for me the first time was because I was already so sick.
If you have cirrhosis, you really should not wait. The supplements will help but as long as you still have hep C, you are fighting a losing battle.
But, as they say, it's your life.
Good luck.
OH
(you wrote);
1) " Frankly, until the next generation of drug therapy is available, ie., non-interferon, I would be satisfied to be able to begin the process of reversing the fibrosis/cirrhosis.
2) My understanding is that you can live with the virus and be relatively healthy as long as your liver doesn't become de-compensated.
3) Alternatively, one could get rid of the virus and be permanently debilitated in other ways, or even worse, start treatment and have to stop and be sick indefinitely. "
============================
I am happy to provide you with the information but I want to caution you, I have not seen large scale results, studies, articles and so I do not indeed know that HepTech products will work for you. If they do not and if indeed you are near cirrhosis you are nearing a critical window of time to treat with existing and known effective treatments.
What concerns me is some of your statements seem based upon wishful thinking or possibly incorrect beliefs. That is not the way you should move forward.
I support people waiting for better treatments....... IF they can. If you are near cirrhosis you may not be wise in indulging in exploring alternative therapies. you may only have so many false steps before you have problems..... irreversible problems, perhaps. (1) unless and until there are studies which prove reversal of fibrosis you cannot treat this as a "given", rather you should assume that you can't reverse it unless there is abundant proof.
I also do not agree with the second (2) highlighted line. It may be true that some people do not have classic symptoms, that HCV may be a "silent" disease, but that does not mean that various types of damage are not occuring. I am sorry to say that there are many types of damage which may occur without manifesting symptoms. It is when they are bad enough you get the symptoms, but then the damage is done. Do not confuse the absence of symptoms with the absence of damage.
-------It could be that even with reversal of fibrosis or staging that damage could still accrue if one is still infected.
The thing with damage from current treatment is that it is not a given, a guarantee. I believe that 1-5% are injured by it in serious ways, some people have benign damage, acceptable considering they are free of the virus, some people are undamaged and many people actually feel better than they have felt in decades. Damage is not a given and basing avoidance of TX based upon that fear or expectation is not based in fact.
I often hear that damage is not lineal with HCV. Some people do very well, some do not. I believe that answers you have been given in this thread are based upon known facts, proven procedures and care for your outcome.
I am interested in the HT program for a number of reasons. If it *could* stall or reverse damage it would be a great thing, either for people with HCV or who have treated been cured and wish to speed recovery or aid in reversing fibrosis/damage. I just have not seen a lot of proof yet that the program will do it, but I welcome seeing it.
I just wanted to comment on a few things in your reply and perhaps to respond in a way which might also represent a few others opinions or concerns about the path.
I have a friend with a MELD score and only so-so odds at getting a TP, and so I have interest, an open mind, and hope that something may be done that.....while not a cure..... may buy some time. There are many people who may have little time and poor prospects that a program like this could help......if it works. ; ) (and I don't know that answer)
best wishes,
willy
1) " Frankly, until the next generation of drug therapy is available, ie., non-interferon, I would be satisfied to be able to begin the process of reversing the fibrosis/cirrhosis.
2) My understanding is that you can live with the virus and be relatively healthy as long as your liver doesn't become de-compensated.
3) Alternatively, one could get rid of the virus and be permanently debilitated in other ways, or even worse, start treatment and have to stop and be sick indefinitely. "
============================
I am happy to provide you with the information but I want to caution you, I have not seen large scale results, studies, articles and so I do not indeed know that HepTech products will work for you. If they do not and if indeed you are near cirrhosis you are nearing a critical window of time to treat with existing and known effective treatments.
What concerns me is some of your statements seem based upon wishful thinking or possibly incorrect beliefs. That is not the way you should move forward.
I support people waiting for better treatments....... IF they can. If you are near cirrhosis you may not be wise in indulging in exploring alternative therapies. you may only have so many false steps before you have problems..... irreversible problems, perhaps. (1) unless and until there are studies which prove reversal of fibrosis you cannot treat this as a "given", rather you should assume that you can't reverse it unless there is abundant proof.
I also do not agree with the second (2) highlighted line. It may be true that some people do not have classic symptoms, that HCV may be a "silent" disease, but that does not mean that various types of damage are not occuring. I am sorry to say that there are many types of damage which may occur without manifesting symptoms. It is when they are bad enough you get the symptoms, but then the damage is done. Do not confuse the absence of symptoms with the absence of damage.
-------It could be that even with reversal of fibrosis or staging that damage could still accrue if one is still infected.
The thing with damage from current treatment is that it is not a given, a guarantee. I believe that 1-5% are injured by it in serious ways, some people have benign damage, acceptable considering they are free of the virus, some people are undamaged and many people actually feel better than they have felt in decades. Damage is not a given and basing avoidance of TX based upon that fear or expectation is not based in fact.
I often hear that damage is not lineal with HCV. Some people do very well, some do not. I believe that answers you have been given in this thread are based upon known facts, proven procedures and care for your outcome.
I am interested in the HT program for a number of reasons. If it *could* stall or reverse damage it would be a great thing, either for people with HCV or who have treated been cured and wish to speed recovery or aid in reversing fibrosis/damage. I just have not seen a lot of proof yet that the program will do it, but I welcome seeing it.
I just wanted to comment on a few things in your reply and perhaps to respond in a way which might also represent a few others opinions or concerns about the path.
I have a friend with a MELD score and only so-so odds at getting a TP, and so I have interest, an open mind, and hope that something may be done that.....while not a cure..... may buy some time. There are many people who may have little time and poor prospects that a program like this could help......if it works. ; ) (and I don't know that answer)
best wishes,
willy
Hi I wanted to say that you are right, the virus is insidious, I did not know I had it until I was in the beginning phase of cirrhosis. My blood work looked great, it was my liver that was not so hot
Best wishes to you
Dee
Best wishes to you
Dee
Thanks Willy. I am going to try to connect with Stefano.
My geno is 1b, never was a good candidate for therapy. Very aware of new drug combos.
My Dr is a hepatologist and a researcher . Now I am going to consult with the director of the Liver Transplant Program, I wanted another opinion and another Dr on board. He is a friend of a friend, etc, have spoken to him on the phone and think that he is level headed and smart and most importantly, not an alarmist!
I will keep you and the "collective you" informed of my journey.
Although I feel healthy, I know how insidious this virus is..the whole thing is a crap shoot! Frankly, until the next generation of drug therapy is available, ie., non-interferon, I would be satisfied to be able to begin the process of reversing the fibrosis/cirrhosis.
My understanding is that you can live with the virus and be relatively healthy as long as your liver doesn't become de-compensated.
Alternatively, one could get rid of the virus and be permanently debilitated in other ways, or even worse, start treatment and have to stop and be sick indefinitely.
This forum is a hot bed of passionate opinions. Based on real life fact and experiences, yet fraught with paradox.
Thanks to all of you for being here......
My geno is 1b, never was a good candidate for therapy. Very aware of new drug combos.
My Dr is a hepatologist and a researcher . Now I am going to consult with the director of the Liver Transplant Program, I wanted another opinion and another Dr on board. He is a friend of a friend, etc, have spoken to him on the phone and think that he is level headed and smart and most importantly, not an alarmist!
I will keep you and the "collective you" informed of my journey.
Although I feel healthy, I know how insidious this virus is..the whole thing is a crap shoot! Frankly, until the next generation of drug therapy is available, ie., non-interferon, I would be satisfied to be able to begin the process of reversing the fibrosis/cirrhosis.
My understanding is that you can live with the virus and be relatively healthy as long as your liver doesn't become de-compensated.
Alternatively, one could get rid of the virus and be permanently debilitated in other ways, or even worse, start treatment and have to stop and be sick indefinitely.
This forum is a hot bed of passionate opinions. Based on real life fact and experiences, yet fraught with paradox.
Thanks to all of you for being here......
Well, to give yousome hope, I was given a blood test last october, called a FibroSure test, and was told I had cirrhosis. So I RAN and got a Biopsy, and it showed I only had stage 2 fibrosis (cirrhosis is stage 4...decompensated cirrhosis is stage 5)..so I rushed inot treatment! So, get a biopsy asap, and if it is at stage 2, 3, or 4, get treatment quickly, there is new meds approved last May, if you are geno type 1, more chance of cure for you
I agree with the other posters except to say that Hep Tech is an excellent product and does not harm your liver, actually supports it. You have seen the documentation if you are considering it.
However, DO NOT USE IT instead of or during treatment. It will not stop the virus. If you do have cirrhosis, after TX when the virus is gone, it is an excellent product to help regress fibrosis. See the Hep B forum and talk to Stefano.
It will not stop the virus,It will not stop the virus.If you use it instead of doing TX you will end up harming your liver, because the virus continues to replicate.
Good luck to you and remember no substitute for the drugs that we must take to kill the beast.
However, DO NOT USE IT instead of or during treatment. It will not stop the virus. If you do have cirrhosis, after TX when the virus is gone, it is an excellent product to help regress fibrosis. See the Hep B forum and talk to Stefano.
It will not stop the virus,It will not stop the virus.If you use it instead of doing TX you will end up harming your liver, because the virus continues to replicate.
Good luck to you and remember no substitute for the drugs that we must take to kill the beast.
Cirrhosis can not be diagnosed using only blood tests. Some patients with early cirrhosis have normal blood levels even though they are cirrhotic. Go to a hepatologist that knows who to diagnose you properly.
The good news is you still have time.
The bad news is if you waste your time taking this products your liver disease will progress. It could progress to a point when you are no longer treat you hepatitis C and will need a liver transplant.
The ugly, is dealing with End-Stage Liver Disease.
None of these product will stop the progression of your liver disease. Unless you rid yourself of hepatitis C by treating with the drugs that have shown to be 75% + effective you are risking becoming disabled and in need of a liver transplant.
A resent clinical trial showed that there was no different in progression of fibrosis whether one took milkthistle (silymarin) or not. Also some of the supplements or vitamins you are taking could be toxic to your liver if you do have cirrhosis.
Get educated and talk to a hepatologist before you waste your time and money and they will confirm what we are saying. Find out if you have cirrhosis. It is important to know that you are approaching possible liver failure sometime in the future.
Good luck!
Hector
The good news is you still have time.
The bad news is if you waste your time taking this products your liver disease will progress. It could progress to a point when you are no longer treat you hepatitis C and will need a liver transplant.
The ugly, is dealing with End-Stage Liver Disease.
None of these product will stop the progression of your liver disease. Unless you rid yourself of hepatitis C by treating with the drugs that have shown to be 75% + effective you are risking becoming disabled and in need of a liver transplant.
A resent clinical trial showed that there was no different in progression of fibrosis whether one took milkthistle (silymarin) or not. Also some of the supplements or vitamins you are taking could be toxic to your liver if you do have cirrhosis.
Get educated and talk to a hepatologist before you waste your time and money and they will confirm what we are saying. Find out if you have cirrhosis. It is important to know that you are approaching possible liver failure sometime in the future.
Good luck!
Hector
You need to do treatment before you move into cirrhosis. Hopefully the liver spec will get you started. Good luck
None of these products will rid you of hep C.
When I was sick with decompensated cirrhosis I took a number of different supplement prescribed to me by an herbalist who is an MD.
She made it clear that they could help with my symptoms and my side effects during treatment but no herbs or supplements would cure me of the virus. I can not say whether they helped or not.
She advised me to begin interferon tx, and I did, seeing her as well.
You may want to have your vit D levels checked.
Good luck with your upcoming appointment.
When I was sick with decompensated cirrhosis I took a number of different supplement prescribed to me by an herbalist who is an MD.
She made it clear that they could help with my symptoms and my side effects during treatment but no herbs or supplements would cure me of the virus. I can not say whether they helped or not.
She advised me to begin interferon tx, and I did, seeing her as well.
You may want to have your vit D levels checked.
Good luck with your upcoming appointment.
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There is a fellow with Hep B at med help who also seems very informed who used Heptech products; Stefano
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/255109/HR-protocol?personal_page_id=349738
He has about 6500 posts here and 144 "best answers", (which I think one can take with a grain of salt), but he is one of the go to people for info on hep B @ medhelp. He has used heptech products and seems pleased with them.
=======================================
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/255109/HR-protocol?personal_page_id=349738
by stef2011, Sep 13, 2011
"didnt update for a while, when things are very good you forget about disease.....liver cirrhosis regression is almost complete now:
fibrosis at may 2011 6.3kpa, not relevant
histology, small nodules less than 2cm still present, will see if reabsorbed by end of the year all the rest normal"
all this thanks to heptch antioxidant therapy, diet "
==========================================
Hepatitis Technologies is associated with a person whom most know here as "hepatitis researcher" and who is very informed about Hep C and is also well known for inventing one of the ultrasensitive PCRs used in testing viral loads. If he is on board with Hepatitis Technologies, I don't think one can or should routinely dismiss the company.
My understanding is that stefano had improvements using the compounds and that Evangeline's cirrhotic husband also had improvements from using the formulations.
In both cases, however I think the patients did not have much choice; Stefano has hep B which if I understand it correctly is difficult to clear, and Ev's hubby Joe was a meld score patient and multiple time treatment failure.
Hep C is currently quite treatable and if you are nearing cirrhosis it could be dangerous indeed waiting much longer. There is a point at which one cannot treat without risking decompensation, also the virus is more difficult to treat, and so it becomes kind of a triple whammy; higher risk, longer treatment and lower success rate.
best,
Willy