Aa
Overweight (high BMI) and Treating...
I'm 1 month post treatment with SOC.
What is so wrong about people with a high BMI being encouraged to try treatment? If it doesn't work by 4 or 12 weeks they can just stop the way any other treater can stop. Why can't we be encouraged too? The reason I'm putting this out there is because I don't feel that there is a whole lot of support for the individuals who have a high BMI and are thinking of treating. In fact I've seen them discouraged!
What is so wrong about people with a high BMI being encouraged to try treatment? If it doesn't work by 4 or 12 weeks they can just stop the way any other treater can stop. Why can't we be encouraged too? The reason I'm putting this out there is because I don't feel that there is a whole lot of support for the individuals who have a high BMI and are thinking of treating. In fact I've seen them discouraged!
correction, we need to eliminate the LDL (low density fats) so that our bodies will burn their owns stored of it up...but keep the healthy lipids..(HDL) (high density lipos) up
sheesh...this happens everytime I start rattling stuff off late at night...sorry.
sheesh...this happens everytime I start rattling stuff off late at night...sorry.
nope, you got that right...stuff gets more convoluted the more we look into it for sure.
But to recap just so folks know where I'm going with this, weight loss to get down to our correct BMI is a good thing.. GOOD.
Losing too fast is what's not good.
A pound of calories is roughly 3000 calories
a stick of butter roughly 800 calories,
a 8 oz steak contains roughly 1/2 oz. of fat.
a persons calorie intake must not exceed their body requirements in order for stored fat to get burned.
so
let's say you tried to loose a pound a week. Reasonable.
that would be a 52 lb loss in one year. Is it doable? yes, is it safe, yes BUT you need to realize you STILL WOULD an HDL requirement, meaning you need to get some good fats, i.e. olive oil, fish oil, etc into your diet each day.
what you need to do is eliminate HDL type fats, so that your stored HDL..body fat will be burned as fuel.
You also need to restrict calories to an amount beneath what your body requires or else sugars, starched, non fat items, will nevertheless turn into stored fat.
you would need to recognize that that would mean you would need to shave 400 calories off each days requirements so that your body will use YOUR steak fat!!
when we don't loose weight it means we are storing too efficiantly, or we are eating as much fat or other calories as we need....otherwise the body will convert fat.
My figures show if I cut my meat consumption to 3x a wwk, 5 oz servings only, and cut deserts to 1 per week, I should be able to burn about half a stick of MY BUTTER off my cute tush everyday!!
Not bad!1 But what folks shouldn't do is crash diet, because A. this can destroy the gall bladder, and B. it can create so much peroxidase in the liver that HCC becomes far more likely. (folks in countries where dairy and meat are not consummed have almost no HCC, unlike in the USA where it is the 7th biggest killer.)
One thing however, LIVER patients do not all have functioning pituitary or thyroids.
GET them both checked. (IGF-1 test, and TSH test)
A rat with diminished pit function will have 3 times the BMI on the same calorie count and activity regime as a rat with normal HGH function.
Half the HCV patients tested in one study had abnormally low pituitary function, meaning try as we might, the body simply will not burn fat. So it's important to make sure your glands are working.
But to recap just so folks know where I'm going with this, weight loss to get down to our correct BMI is a good thing.. GOOD.
Losing too fast is what's not good.
A pound of calories is roughly 3000 calories
a stick of butter roughly 800 calories,
a 8 oz steak contains roughly 1/2 oz. of fat.
a persons calorie intake must not exceed their body requirements in order for stored fat to get burned.
so
let's say you tried to loose a pound a week. Reasonable.
that would be a 52 lb loss in one year. Is it doable? yes, is it safe, yes BUT you need to realize you STILL WOULD an HDL requirement, meaning you need to get some good fats, i.e. olive oil, fish oil, etc into your diet each day.
what you need to do is eliminate HDL type fats, so that your stored HDL..body fat will be burned as fuel.
You also need to restrict calories to an amount beneath what your body requires or else sugars, starched, non fat items, will nevertheless turn into stored fat.
you would need to recognize that that would mean you would need to shave 400 calories off each days requirements so that your body will use YOUR steak fat!!
when we don't loose weight it means we are storing too efficiantly, or we are eating as much fat or other calories as we need....otherwise the body will convert fat.
My figures show if I cut my meat consumption to 3x a wwk, 5 oz servings only, and cut deserts to 1 per week, I should be able to burn about half a stick of MY BUTTER off my cute tush everyday!!
Not bad!1 But what folks shouldn't do is crash diet, because A. this can destroy the gall bladder, and B. it can create so much peroxidase in the liver that HCC becomes far more likely. (folks in countries where dairy and meat are not consummed have almost no HCC, unlike in the USA where it is the 7th biggest killer.)
One thing however, LIVER patients do not all have functioning pituitary or thyroids.
GET them both checked. (IGF-1 test, and TSH test)
A rat with diminished pit function will have 3 times the BMI on the same calorie count and activity regime as a rat with normal HGH function.
Half the HCV patients tested in one study had abnormally low pituitary function, meaning try as we might, the body simply will not burn fat. So it's important to make sure your glands are working.
Nothing makes sense does it? Many people lose weight fast on
tx along with muscle . Now we are hearing on this very forum that it can
cause HCC....splendid !!
tx along with muscle . Now we are hearing on this very forum that it can
cause HCC....splendid !!
*Sigh* my biggest problem should ever be that I loose weight too fast. Or I win too much money in the lotto.
Seriously it's something I don't think will ever be that much of a problem ;)
Although technically we do lose a ton of weight really fast on treatment - I wonder if that is enough? It's kind of getting me paranoid now. Take the tx to kill the disease so we don't get HCC but...loose 20 pounds in 3 months and get HCC anyway? I didn't want to say that outloud but it's concerning me. That would just be my wonderful luck!
Seriously it's something I don't think will ever be that much of a problem ;)
Although technically we do lose a ton of weight really fast on treatment - I wonder if that is enough? It's kind of getting me paranoid now. Take the tx to kill the disease so we don't get HCC but...loose 20 pounds in 3 months and get HCC anyway? I didn't want to say that outloud but it's concerning me. That would just be my wonderful luck!
Great discussion! I'm a bit too tired to respond at any length tonight but will do so when I have more time/energy. Kathy - I've learned a lot from you. I think you have more knowledge/ability that you admit! :>) I'm glad that you, MB, C24Angel, NY, Rocker & Goof are having this discussion. It is important. And, as I said, I, for one, am learning a lot.
"Tubular?" Oh man. Haven't heard that in ages! Brings back memories of big hair, blue eye shadow, and leggings. lol!
Going to bed earlier tonight. Why do I have the feeling I'm going to dream about bacon cheeseburgers? Thanks guys.
"Tubular?" Oh man. Haven't heard that in ages! Brings back memories of big hair, blue eye shadow, and leggings. lol!
Going to bed earlier tonight. Why do I have the feeling I'm going to dream about bacon cheeseburgers? Thanks guys.
Dang Merry. All that fat talk made sense. It also made me hunger for a cheeseburger.
Kathy,
thanks for the encouragement so much, I know you will do well with your treatment because you have such a good attitude and also you are not afraid to ask the hard questions, or recieve all the answers. Actually reading all the posts I think everyone was trying to encourage you albeit in their own ways, it just takes time sometimes for folks to see that and not read too much into what others are saying,
we all know it's a tough uphill battle when so many things to change get thrown in the mix at once...but it's really no different than hearing that our ateries are clogged, or we a prediebetic, or any number of other things...so many conditions are either helped to be cured or even cured and reversed by dealing with the weight issue that we cannot just not talk about it. We do that only to our own detrement.
I can tell you it's a heartbreak to go through 2 years of chemo and relaspe because I did. If losing another 50 lbs could have helped that, well I shall never know, but I did remove 40 lbs prior to treating...couldn't do more than that in the 6 month time slot I was given between diagnosis and commencement of tx.
People do need info to be well informed. One theory I've heard as to the WHY the liver may do worse with more fat is that the virus hides in fat, and meds don't penetrate fat cells as readily as other types...just a couple more theories among many.
Angel and NY girl...well live and learn ladies. Actually that research has been around for about 30 years now. It's called free radical formation and it's cheif cause (besides the daily couple dozen xrays we get living on this planet) is from the oxidation of fat. When fat is burned it uses oxygen to be burned same as your car needs oxygen to be mixed with it's gas (a form of fat/oil) before it can burn.
This conversion to usable fuel produces a by product known as a free radical, nasty buggers known to have influence on the cells near them wherein they rupture and/or mutate healthy cells, and hence cause aberrant cell diviision, and while the healthy immune system scrubs these outlaw overgrowing cells cancerous or sick cells from our bodies each day if we overwhelm the system it can cause more cancer cells to form than the body can eliminate, especially if the liver is already compromised to boot.
Bottom line is every day your body makes tons of cancer cells, but normally the lymphatic system removes them.
I taught anatomy and nutrition at college in the 70's and this research was known even then.
So why is weight loss an issue? Because the biggest cause of free radicals in the diet, well one of them, (nitrates and other things hurt too) but the biggest dietary cause is saturated fat. Particularly aggregeous is animal fat...meat sources etc....it is solid and sticky by nature, and hard to burn and it produces the most free radicals, many more than vegetable sources of oil. THAT is why doctors have been saying for years to switch to veggie oils for many years, because of all the research.
Well, say you go veggie...out of the woods...yes and no...out of the woods until you go to lose weight...then all that animal fat on US....yes WE are animals, goes into circulation as it is getting burned....and suddenly it's like we are eating a steak every day...iy is steak tartar ala child4angel, or broiled NY girl, or merrybe Wellington, but it is steak none the less...and if you diet correctly, it is VERY high fat and low muscle ratio.....so at that point, while dieting, we produce more free radicals you see.
Now since the liver is at higher risk anyway what with fibrosis and HCv, and especially with iron overload already causing too much oxidation in many, it makes sense to lose weight OF COURSE, but it makes sense to do it more slowly and sensibly than some folks advocate in order to avoid the dreaded HCC getting the upper hand...in my opinion.
I insisted on a slow steady weight decline and regular iron checks (which this forum clued me into) while going through this process and my hepatologist had NO proplemo with my approach once I rattled off what little I remembered from my teaching days.
I suppose if one was young and still relatively healthy and in stage 1 or 2 than a quicker weight loss might be appropo...but I was stage 3-4 and with high iron I would never have considered that approach worth the risk. I was able to lower my iron 250 pts. lose half the weight I wanted to, so it is a reasonable approach. After all, the "cure" is supposed to do more good than harm.
mb
thanks for the encouragement so much, I know you will do well with your treatment because you have such a good attitude and also you are not afraid to ask the hard questions, or recieve all the answers. Actually reading all the posts I think everyone was trying to encourage you albeit in their own ways, it just takes time sometimes for folks to see that and not read too much into what others are saying,
we all know it's a tough uphill battle when so many things to change get thrown in the mix at once...but it's really no different than hearing that our ateries are clogged, or we a prediebetic, or any number of other things...so many conditions are either helped to be cured or even cured and reversed by dealing with the weight issue that we cannot just not talk about it. We do that only to our own detrement.
I can tell you it's a heartbreak to go through 2 years of chemo and relaspe because I did. If losing another 50 lbs could have helped that, well I shall never know, but I did remove 40 lbs prior to treating...couldn't do more than that in the 6 month time slot I was given between diagnosis and commencement of tx.
People do need info to be well informed. One theory I've heard as to the WHY the liver may do worse with more fat is that the virus hides in fat, and meds don't penetrate fat cells as readily as other types...just a couple more theories among many.
Angel and NY girl...well live and learn ladies. Actually that research has been around for about 30 years now. It's called free radical formation and it's cheif cause (besides the daily couple dozen xrays we get living on this planet) is from the oxidation of fat. When fat is burned it uses oxygen to be burned same as your car needs oxygen to be mixed with it's gas (a form of fat/oil) before it can burn.
This conversion to usable fuel produces a by product known as a free radical, nasty buggers known to have influence on the cells near them wherein they rupture and/or mutate healthy cells, and hence cause aberrant cell diviision, and while the healthy immune system scrubs these outlaw overgrowing cells cancerous or sick cells from our bodies each day if we overwhelm the system it can cause more cancer cells to form than the body can eliminate, especially if the liver is already compromised to boot.
Bottom line is every day your body makes tons of cancer cells, but normally the lymphatic system removes them.
I taught anatomy and nutrition at college in the 70's and this research was known even then.
So why is weight loss an issue? Because the biggest cause of free radicals in the diet, well one of them, (nitrates and other things hurt too) but the biggest dietary cause is saturated fat. Particularly aggregeous is animal fat...meat sources etc....it is solid and sticky by nature, and hard to burn and it produces the most free radicals, many more than vegetable sources of oil. THAT is why doctors have been saying for years to switch to veggie oils for many years, because of all the research.
Well, say you go veggie...out of the woods...yes and no...out of the woods until you go to lose weight...then all that animal fat on US....yes WE are animals, goes into circulation as it is getting burned....and suddenly it's like we are eating a steak every day...iy is steak tartar ala child4angel, or broiled NY girl, or merrybe Wellington, but it is steak none the less...and if you diet correctly, it is VERY high fat and low muscle ratio.....so at that point, while dieting, we produce more free radicals you see.
Now since the liver is at higher risk anyway what with fibrosis and HCv, and especially with iron overload already causing too much oxidation in many, it makes sense to lose weight OF COURSE, but it makes sense to do it more slowly and sensibly than some folks advocate in order to avoid the dreaded HCC getting the upper hand...in my opinion.
I insisted on a slow steady weight decline and regular iron checks (which this forum clued me into) while going through this process and my hepatologist had NO proplemo with my approach once I rattled off what little I remembered from my teaching days.
I suppose if one was young and still relatively healthy and in stage 1 or 2 than a quicker weight loss might be appropo...but I was stage 3-4 and with high iron I would never have considered that approach worth the risk. I was able to lower my iron 250 pts. lose half the weight I wanted to, so it is a reasonable approach. After all, the "cure" is supposed to do more good than harm.
mb
Gotta admit I never heard losing weight too fast could do anything about causing HCC either. It doesn't seem to make sense to me much - how much weight would you have to lose that fast? I'd be afraid to discourage anybody from doing their best to lose weight if they needed to. Maybe I just never heard that before?
The important thing in losing weight and trying to remove fat from the liver is not to try to do it too quickly. Not only does this increase the risk of hepatic cancer,
I've never heard this before, losing weight too fast can
increase hepatic cancer? doubt it, hepatic cancer can cause
a person to lose weight.
Two types of cancer affect the liver:
Primary cancer first begins in the liver and may spread to other organs. The most common primary cancer is hepatocellular carcinoma.
Metastasized cancer of the liver comes originally from another part of the body. Cancer cells can easily travel from another affected organ to the liver because of the role the liver plays in filtering the blood. The most common cancers that spread to the liver are from the colon, pancreas, stomach, lung, and breast.
The average person diagnosed with liver cancer is over 60 years old. In Canada, about 1,800 people are diagnosed every year with liver cancer, and well over half of them are men.
Causes of Liver Cancer
The causes of liver cancer still aren't known, but some risk factors have been identified. They include:
chronic hepatitis B and C infection
cirrhosis of the liver
diabetes mellitus
exposure to toxins, such as certain types of fungi (aflatoxin), vinyl chloride, anabolic steroids, and arsenic
smoking
I've never heard this before, losing weight too fast can
increase hepatic cancer? doubt it, hepatic cancer can cause
a person to lose weight.
Two types of cancer affect the liver:
Primary cancer first begins in the liver and may spread to other organs. The most common primary cancer is hepatocellular carcinoma.
Metastasized cancer of the liver comes originally from another part of the body. Cancer cells can easily travel from another affected organ to the liver because of the role the liver plays in filtering the blood. The most common cancers that spread to the liver are from the colon, pancreas, stomach, lung, and breast.
The average person diagnosed with liver cancer is over 60 years old. In Canada, about 1,800 people are diagnosed every year with liver cancer, and well over half of them are men.
Causes of Liver Cancer
The causes of liver cancer still aren't known, but some risk factors have been identified. They include:
chronic hepatitis B and C infection
cirrhosis of the liver
diabetes mellitus
exposure to toxins, such as certain types of fungi (aflatoxin), vinyl chloride, anabolic steroids, and arsenic
smoking
What a surprise to see this thread brought up again! After over a year of trying to get someone on this forum to actually say what you've said:
"Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else." When I tried to say something similar to this I felt I was insulted, denigrated and dismissed.
I'm sorry MerryB that you have tried so long and hard to get your points across on this forum. You have wonderful information to impart and, as I've experienced, certain individuals try their best to block it.
I certainly don't have the knowledge and ability to impart the information both of you have so I will thank you both for sharing it.
If I do attain SVR in a couple of months I will jump for joy. If I don't I'll wait until the new and improved drugs are available and do it all over again.
Thank you again.
Kathy
"Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else." When I tried to say something similar to this I felt I was insulted, denigrated and dismissed.
I'm sorry MerryB that you have tried so long and hard to get your points across on this forum. You have wonderful information to impart and, as I've experienced, certain individuals try their best to block it.
I certainly don't have the knowledge and ability to impart the information both of you have so I will thank you both for sharing it.
If I do attain SVR in a couple of months I will jump for joy. If I don't I'll wait until the new and improved drugs are available and do it all over again.
Thank you again.
Kathy
you are correct, although not all overweight people have fatty liver, it depends on their diet, their consumption of fats and what types, alcohol consumption as well as other health issues such as diabetes.
The liver stores and releases fat every day, all day, and so some fat in the liver is normal. The first line of defense needs to be to replace saturated and hydrogenated fats with good healthy fats in the diet. These do less damage and in some ways reverse damage already done, and are burned easier, and don't clog arteries.
The important thing in losing weight and trying to remove fat from the liver is not to try to do it too quickly. Not only does this increase the risk of hepatic cancer, but it also can do a number on your gall bladder, which can happen anyway in weight loss but is more likely in those going on crash diets. A good rule of thumb is to keep weight loss to no more than 2 lbs per week. The gall bladder must release its bile into the system in order not to form stones etc. and it only releases in the presense of fats. Ergo a no fat diet in NOT good for us.
mb
The liver stores and releases fat every day, all day, and so some fat in the liver is normal. The first line of defense needs to be to replace saturated and hydrogenated fats with good healthy fats in the diet. These do less damage and in some ways reverse damage already done, and are burned easier, and don't clog arteries.
The important thing in losing weight and trying to remove fat from the liver is not to try to do it too quickly. Not only does this increase the risk of hepatic cancer, but it also can do a number on your gall bladder, which can happen anyway in weight loss but is more likely in those going on crash diets. A good rule of thumb is to keep weight loss to no more than 2 lbs per week. The gall bladder must release its bile into the system in order not to form stones etc. and it only releases in the presense of fats. Ergo a no fat diet in NOT good for us.
mb
If you are obese,odds are your liver will be "fatty" also,not good for TX.Data is out there proving this in studies.The Tx drugs do a better job at eliminating the virus with the liver not fatty.
Happy NY back!! ditto and then some!
you are right on the money. perfect.
now the question of treating or not should NOT revolve around size, obviously.
it's just that size does effect outcome. A known item.
what I don't get is why they told me THAT, but not how to fix that, not one suggestion.
It was a total uphill battle to get my hormones checked, resolve the IR issues etc etc.
My doc thought I was A. nuts, or B. obbsessive. C. wrong.
truth was A. I had endocrine dysfuction (several glands shut down, as HCV can cause this it baffles me why they don't check.)
B. I diagnoses 4 dieases before the specialist did, and was right, they were wrong.
C. even the much disputed IR connection is proven. Dr. Flochart and others have proven insulin cancels out interferon, and so both disease progression AND outcome during treatment are effected by high HOMA scores.
Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else.
You know what, I ran this by both my liver docs...why don't you guys have an endocrinologist on board for each HCV patient, knowing what we now know...
I got blank stares off into the distance.
think about it....every aides patient has various other apecialists on board...guys to watch their skin, their hearts, etc etc etc...
you'd think they'd at least consider endos in light of all the recent studies connecting this disease not just to liver failure but to endocrine failure as well!!
One more way people get large from this disease is that when the fatique is operative activity takes a nose dive, and that leads to weight gain.
Another aspect is that depression is a result of these systems being sluggish, and that leads to more weight.
the best way to overcome all this is to get the treatments needed and we can't get those treatments until we stop thinking we are healthy, and admit that maybe some things are not right!!
I know, I was a whirling dirvish for years, and kept telling myself I was basically healthy in spite of many indicators quite the opposite. When I finally asked for testing my doctor argued NONE of what I suggested could be possible, and yet EVERY test proves I had 60, 50, and in one case only 20% of normal gland function.
Because HCV takes the system down so slowly many folks will just attribute changes in weight, activity level etc. to age and so forth.
Yet as God is my witness HCV is taking out endocrine functions, including the pancreas which is part of the endocrine system and all this is part of why weight gain is going on.
I've been saying this the whole 2 years I've been on this forum.
By the way, NIH estimates for worldwide HCV cases within 10 years now approaches
1 Billion people. How's that for an epidemic.
BTW, what do you think about the weight loss issue. I mean, if one is stage 3-4 and doesn't have NASH, shouldn't one weigh the pro's and cons, i.e. oxidative stress vs. lower weight? I've been paring down very slowly due to my concern about this but have never seen a real discussion about it. It makes sense to lose, but we have to be aware of HCC and not sc.rew the pooch in the process by building up too many free radicals common in weight loss right? That's why continuing with healthy fresh oils is so important.
mb
you are right on the money. perfect.
now the question of treating or not should NOT revolve around size, obviously.
it's just that size does effect outcome. A known item.
what I don't get is why they told me THAT, but not how to fix that, not one suggestion.
It was a total uphill battle to get my hormones checked, resolve the IR issues etc etc.
My doc thought I was A. nuts, or B. obbsessive. C. wrong.
truth was A. I had endocrine dysfuction (several glands shut down, as HCV can cause this it baffles me why they don't check.)
B. I diagnoses 4 dieases before the specialist did, and was right, they were wrong.
C. even the much disputed IR connection is proven. Dr. Flochart and others have proven insulin cancels out interferon, and so both disease progression AND outcome during treatment are effected by high HOMA scores.
Bottom line is, sure a large person should treat, although we are so close to the PI's coming on line I'd advise any stage 1 or 2 person to wait for them)
sure large people got large by different modalities.
the main issue is should she treat, and should she do anything else.
You know what, I ran this by both my liver docs...why don't you guys have an endocrinologist on board for each HCV patient, knowing what we now know...
I got blank stares off into the distance.
think about it....every aides patient has various other apecialists on board...guys to watch their skin, their hearts, etc etc etc...
you'd think they'd at least consider endos in light of all the recent studies connecting this disease not just to liver failure but to endocrine failure as well!!
One more way people get large from this disease is that when the fatique is operative activity takes a nose dive, and that leads to weight gain.
Another aspect is that depression is a result of these systems being sluggish, and that leads to more weight.
the best way to overcome all this is to get the treatments needed and we can't get those treatments until we stop thinking we are healthy, and admit that maybe some things are not right!!
I know, I was a whirling dirvish for years, and kept telling myself I was basically healthy in spite of many indicators quite the opposite. When I finally asked for testing my doctor argued NONE of what I suggested could be possible, and yet EVERY test proves I had 60, 50, and in one case only 20% of normal gland function.
Because HCV takes the system down so slowly many folks will just attribute changes in weight, activity level etc. to age and so forth.
Yet as God is my witness HCV is taking out endocrine functions, including the pancreas which is part of the endocrine system and all this is part of why weight gain is going on.
I've been saying this the whole 2 years I've been on this forum.
By the way, NIH estimates for worldwide HCV cases within 10 years now approaches
1 Billion people. How's that for an epidemic.
BTW, what do you think about the weight loss issue. I mean, if one is stage 3-4 and doesn't have NASH, shouldn't one weigh the pro's and cons, i.e. oxidative stress vs. lower weight? I've been paring down very slowly due to my concern about this but have never seen a real discussion about it. It makes sense to lose, but we have to be aware of HCC and not sc.rew the pooch in the process by building up too many free radicals common in weight loss right? That's why continuing with healthy fresh oils is so important.
mb
I'm rewording the last point for clarification:
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor nutrition (meaning vitamin, mineral, and fluid intake) and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
(I'm a case example of how sleep-deprivation can affect cognitive health.)
Good night!
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor nutrition (meaning vitamin, mineral, and fluid intake) and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
(I'm a case example of how sleep-deprivation can affect cognitive health.)
Good night!
Okay, first - Happy New Year.
Yes, the thread did become emotional. Emotions are an important part of this process. The initial question of this thread involved emotionally laden content. Sometimes we have to be sensitive to, acknowledge, and respond to the emotions - sit with them for just a bit - rather than ignore them or try to rationalize them away. The thread was moving in other directions prior to that process occurring. The result = emotional snowball. That being said, let's now move on the some rational facts, as you suggest:
Fact: We agree that high BMI is typically associated with higher health risks.
Fact: The majority of people in the U.S. are overweight (Centers for Disease Control and the Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: Body weight is the result of a combination of genetic, metabolic, behavioral, environmental, cultural, and socioeconomic influences (Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: According to the National Institute of Health, many people think that individuals who are considered obese are gluttonous, lazy, or both. This is not true. As a result, people who are considered obese often face prejudice or discrimination. Feelings of rejection, shame, or depression may occur. Making blanket over-simplified statements about losing weight (when a weight problem is often a very complex problem) are not only not helpful, but can also contribute to the problem. Therefore, a little sensitivity and understanding from people, especially those who are not obese, could go a long way.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should have their hormone levels checked. Endocrine gland dysfunction may play a larger role in obesity and/or HCV tx outcomes than previously thought.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor diet and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
How's that, MerryBe?
Yes, the thread did become emotional. Emotions are an important part of this process. The initial question of this thread involved emotionally laden content. Sometimes we have to be sensitive to, acknowledge, and respond to the emotions - sit with them for just a bit - rather than ignore them or try to rationalize them away. The thread was moving in other directions prior to that process occurring. The result = emotional snowball. That being said, let's now move on the some rational facts, as you suggest:
Fact: We agree that high BMI is typically associated with higher health risks.
Fact: The majority of people in the U.S. are overweight (Centers for Disease Control and the Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: Body weight is the result of a combination of genetic, metabolic, behavioral, environmental, cultural, and socioeconomic influences (Office of the Surgeon General).
Fact: According to the National Institute of Health, many people think that individuals who are considered obese are gluttonous, lazy, or both. This is not true. As a result, people who are considered obese often face prejudice or discrimination. Feelings of rejection, shame, or depression may occur. Making blanket over-simplified statements about losing weight (when a weight problem is often a very complex problem) are not only not helpful, but can also contribute to the problem. Therefore, a little sensitivity and understanding from people, especially those who are not obese, could go a long way.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should have their hormone levels checked. Endocrine gland dysfunction may play a larger role in obesity and/or HCV tx outcomes than previously thought.
Fact: People with high BMI and/or HCV should also monitor diet and sleep. Dysfunction in these areas also play a large role in the immune response/obesity connection.
How's that, MerryBe?
you are correct in that there are a few healthy overweight people, but consider this, no matter who you are, no matter what your genetics, the greater the volume of body the greater the volume of blood needed to pump through it and the harder and faster every heart must pump. It is univerally accepted now that higher heart rates equal lower life spans so eve if choleserol and blood pressure etc are fine, it's only a matter of time before joints, hearts, etc etc etc break down. Those are just a few well known and well established medical facts.
My point in all this is each person needs to evaluate what the issues are. We all come to the table(pardon the pun) of ill health with a variety of issues. Some are genetic, some are emotional, some are the result of the disease or some other exposure.
Weight of course, causes rather emotional reposnses from people, how well I know.
I'm trying to remove the meotion from such conversations and stick to the facts so that people can get healthier if that is their desire.
Since discovering that my IGF was 30-45.......(normal was 150-190 for my age)
I have corrected for the deficiency with Humatrope. Since then I have been able to lose weight like a normal person when I apply myself. What a revelation!!
Since half the people with HCV have some sort of endrocrine deficiency you think they'd all be clamoring to know more about this connection.
Especially when you consider that either hypo or hyper thyroid can harm the heart, low HGH can accerate liver death, high BMI or IR can effect treatment outcome.etc etc etc
Why some folks don't want to explore these concepts rationally vs. emotionally only God knows...but I figure if a person asks a question..............
they should be able to benefit from all points of view.
mb
My point in all this is each person needs to evaluate what the issues are. We all come to the table(pardon the pun) of ill health with a variety of issues. Some are genetic, some are emotional, some are the result of the disease or some other exposure.
Weight of course, causes rather emotional reposnses from people, how well I know.
I'm trying to remove the meotion from such conversations and stick to the facts so that people can get healthier if that is their desire.
Since discovering that my IGF was 30-45.......(normal was 150-190 for my age)
I have corrected for the deficiency with Humatrope. Since then I have been able to lose weight like a normal person when I apply myself. What a revelation!!
Since half the people with HCV have some sort of endrocrine deficiency you think they'd all be clamoring to know more about this connection.
Especially when you consider that either hypo or hyper thyroid can harm the heart, low HGH can accerate liver death, high BMI or IR can effect treatment outcome.etc etc etc
Why some folks don't want to explore these concepts rationally vs. emotionally only God knows...but I figure if a person asks a question..............
they should be able to benefit from all points of view.
mb
Can I say this to encourage anyone with a few extra pounds on board (High BMI) I really don't like seeing any discrimination, like I said in another thread I started Tx at 253 pounds but 33 weeks later I'm 170 pounds & I'm going to do my absolute best to never regain that excess weight because everything feels better now... Good luck to you all ....
"You may want to read my thread in here on HGH, or search pubmed for connections between hcv, endocrine dysfunction and high BMI."
I don't mean to sound disrespectful or "yes, but" your comments, but I have done PLENTY of reading and research in that area and have also read numerous threads here. Trust me when I tell you I'm not lacking of knowledge in this area. I'm not a medical expert, but far from being uneducated in this area. That being said, I understand where you're coming from in that everyone, esp someone w/high bmi, should be checked out for such conditions. Without a doubt that is an excellent recommendation. I was primarily referring to an implied assumption from some people that people w/high bmi are unhealthy, which isn't accurate. My objections, often, have to do with the language that's being used when it implies an absolute fact in which there is no room to disagree. And I also wasn't referring to eating disorders. But by all means, I stress this again, people w/high bmi should certainly have a thorough medical workup for the issues you mentioned. That is a really good point that you made.
I don't mean to sound disrespectful or "yes, but" your comments, but I have done PLENTY of reading and research in that area and have also read numerous threads here. Trust me when I tell you I'm not lacking of knowledge in this area. I'm not a medical expert, but far from being uneducated in this area. That being said, I understand where you're coming from in that everyone, esp someone w/high bmi, should be checked out for such conditions. Without a doubt that is an excellent recommendation. I was primarily referring to an implied assumption from some people that people w/high bmi are unhealthy, which isn't accurate. My objections, often, have to do with the language that's being used when it implies an absolute fact in which there is no room to disagree. And I also wasn't referring to eating disorders. But by all means, I stress this again, people w/high bmi should certainly have a thorough medical workup for the issues you mentioned. That is a really good point that you made.
Kathy
I never had a high BMI until I took Interferon the first time in 1994 and ended up with much less energy than I had prior to taking the treatment.
The people that are giving you a hard time, have never had a hard time with their weight. I didn't read all the comments, but it's been my experence that the strong pick on the weak only because they can, and if something were to go wrong with their treatment, making them take a turn for the worst, then were told that they couldn't take the treatment!!! You would never hear the end of their of their screeming.
I try to exercise and eat good food, but I can't seem to even budge off my weight, maybe some day the worm will turn for us.
Sandbur
I never had a high BMI until I took Interferon the first time in 1994 and ended up with much less energy than I had prior to taking the treatment.
The people that are giving you a hard time, have never had a hard time with their weight. I didn't read all the comments, but it's been my experence that the strong pick on the weak only because they can, and if something were to go wrong with their treatment, making them take a turn for the worst, then were told that they couldn't take the treatment!!! You would never hear the end of their of their screeming.
I try to exercise and eat good food, but I can't seem to even budge off my weight, maybe some day the worm will turn for us.
Sandbur
nobody's assuming what she has anything, only that she may. What I said was she may have a metabolic syndrome of some sort. Perhaps IR, perhaps thyroid, perhaps pituitary, to name but a few.
The assumption I do not make is that everyone with a high BMI has an eating disorder.
Often times it is chemistry not emotional or over eating that creates a high BMI.
How do I know this, because this is what I had. On 1200 calories weighing and measuring every drop of oil and morsel every day for a year I lost no weight due to these deficiencies. My doctor argued vociferously that I did not have these syndromes, but proper testing at our local teaching hospital proved I did have exactly what I had diagnosed myself as having.
Item: hcv people have a much higher rate of thyroid disease than the general public.
They also have far far more pituiatry dysfunction, they also have far more pre-diebetes AKA Insulin resistance.
The current research is showing that HCV itself is slowing the endocrine system to a crawl and hence creating metabolic syndromes.
All I am suggesting, is that she be checked for such things so that she does not have to endure years of starvation diets with little result. In order to lose the weight and give herself a better chance at treatment it would be advantageous to make sure the systems that effect whether calories are burned or stored are working as they should be.
You may want to read my thread in here on HGH, or search pubmed for connections between hcv, endocrine dysfunction and high BMI.
mb
The assumption I do not make is that everyone with a high BMI has an eating disorder.
Often times it is chemistry not emotional or over eating that creates a high BMI.
How do I know this, because this is what I had. On 1200 calories weighing and measuring every drop of oil and morsel every day for a year I lost no weight due to these deficiencies. My doctor argued vociferously that I did not have these syndromes, but proper testing at our local teaching hospital proved I did have exactly what I had diagnosed myself as having.
Item: hcv people have a much higher rate of thyroid disease than the general public.
They also have far far more pituiatry dysfunction, they also have far more pre-diebetes AKA Insulin resistance.
The current research is showing that HCV itself is slowing the endocrine system to a crawl and hence creating metabolic syndromes.
All I am suggesting, is that she be checked for such things so that she does not have to endure years of starvation diets with little result. In order to lose the weight and give herself a better chance at treatment it would be advantageous to make sure the systems that effect whether calories are burned or stored are working as they should be.
You may want to read my thread in here on HGH, or search pubmed for connections between hcv, endocrine dysfunction and high BMI.
mb
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