Aa
Symptom questions
Hey there!
I asked this on Terri’s forum/website early last week and am just waiting on her response-
So wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts here :)
I have two questions- the first being that I know genital HSV can present atypically- but if the genitals are just sore to touch WITHOUT any sores present, would that be considered an OB? I have been having persistent burning upon urination and on my genital skin (I am female) and had a full exam by my OBGYN and no sores or lesions were found. There was also no BV, yeast, or trich found. I am just trying to determine if burning/itching and pain in the absence of
sores or lesions are considered HSV symptoms? Do the sores themselves CAUSE the burning and soreness if related to HSV?
Also, Have you ever seen a primary OB of either HSV-1 or HSV-2 manifest in hives? I recall an instance where I had a potential exposure- caught some kind of flu like illness- and also got hives that would not go away with Benadryl.
I also seem to get a annual rash in the warmer months on my thighs that is prickly and hot to touch- it does not go away with cool compresses – it takes several weeks to fade away and often looks purple as it fades.
Do either of these things sound like they could be related to herpes?
Thank you very much!
Mya
I asked this on Terri’s forum/website early last week and am just waiting on her response-
So wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts here :)
I have two questions- the first being that I know genital HSV can present atypically- but if the genitals are just sore to touch WITHOUT any sores present, would that be considered an OB? I have been having persistent burning upon urination and on my genital skin (I am female) and had a full exam by my OBGYN and no sores or lesions were found. There was also no BV, yeast, or trich found. I am just trying to determine if burning/itching and pain in the absence of
sores or lesions are considered HSV symptoms? Do the sores themselves CAUSE the burning and soreness if related to HSV?
Also, Have you ever seen a primary OB of either HSV-1 or HSV-2 manifest in hives? I recall an instance where I had a potential exposure- caught some kind of flu like illness- and also got hives that would not go away with Benadryl.
I also seem to get a annual rash in the warmer months on my thighs that is prickly and hot to touch- it does not go away with cool compresses – it takes several weeks to fade away and often looks purple as it fades.
Do either of these things sound like they could be related to herpes?
Thank you very much!
Mya
COMMUNITY LEADER
Okay, so first, the whole "atypical herpes" thing is greatly exaggerated online. Far and away, people either get blisters (sometimes paper cut sores), or no symptoms at all.
You don't mention how long this has been happening, so that makes it harder for me to help. For example, a herpes outbreak, even a primary, wouldn't last longer than 2-3 weeks at its worst. It would also be gradually getting better.
Was there anything that preceded your symptoms? Had you had sex recently? Protected or unprotected? Received oral sex? Did you get tested for STDs like gonorrhea and chlamydia, if you had a risk?
I'm glad you got tested for BV, yeast and trich. I'd have guessed BV first.
Have you changed laundry detergent, body wash/soap, bought new underwear, toilet paper, etc. - anything that touches your vagina/labia/vulva - is anything new? Did your laundry detergent change formulas - does it say "new and improved" on it?
Do you use a scented feminine wash, or a feminine wash at all? Do you douche? Douching is really bad for you, unless your doctor directs you to do it after a medical procedure. We never need scented anything, nor do our genitals ever need to smell like flowers or rainforests. Those can also cause reactions, and upset the very delicate pH balance.
Have you started eating or drinking anything new? Any new juices/sports drinks/sodas/carbonated drinks, especially? Maybe there is something in those that is causing your urine to have a lot of acid, and when it hits your skin, it's hurting it. Is it burning inside when you urinate, or just when it hits the skin? Did they test you for a UTI?
Usually, the burning with urination with herpes is from the sores itself. The acid in your urine hitting the sores causes pain. Without sores present, it doesn't hurt.
Your annual winter rash doesn't sound like herpes. Maybe you start wearing tights or heavy leggings or something with wool or whatnot that your thighs do not like lol. Has a doctor ever seen it?
Herpes doesn't cause hives itself, though some people can get hives from having a viral infection or other illness.
It sounds like you have super sensitive skin. I understand that one personally. I have to use dye- and scent-free laundry detergent, my soaps and cleansers (body and face) are all "gentle" or "for sensitive skin", etc. I can't use toilet paper that has any print or scent to it.
There is a condition called vulvodynia - literally, pain of the vulva. I don't know if that's what you have, or if you meet the criteria for the diagnosis. You can google it and see if it fits. Without knowing how long it's been, exposures, etc., I can't say much about this except let you know it exists.
You don't mention how long this has been happening, so that makes it harder for me to help. For example, a herpes outbreak, even a primary, wouldn't last longer than 2-3 weeks at its worst. It would also be gradually getting better.
Was there anything that preceded your symptoms? Had you had sex recently? Protected or unprotected? Received oral sex? Did you get tested for STDs like gonorrhea and chlamydia, if you had a risk?
I'm glad you got tested for BV, yeast and trich. I'd have guessed BV first.
Have you changed laundry detergent, body wash/soap, bought new underwear, toilet paper, etc. - anything that touches your vagina/labia/vulva - is anything new? Did your laundry detergent change formulas - does it say "new and improved" on it?
Do you use a scented feminine wash, or a feminine wash at all? Do you douche? Douching is really bad for you, unless your doctor directs you to do it after a medical procedure. We never need scented anything, nor do our genitals ever need to smell like flowers or rainforests. Those can also cause reactions, and upset the very delicate pH balance.
Have you started eating or drinking anything new? Any new juices/sports drinks/sodas/carbonated drinks, especially? Maybe there is something in those that is causing your urine to have a lot of acid, and when it hits your skin, it's hurting it. Is it burning inside when you urinate, or just when it hits the skin? Did they test you for a UTI?
Usually, the burning with urination with herpes is from the sores itself. The acid in your urine hitting the sores causes pain. Without sores present, it doesn't hurt.
Your annual winter rash doesn't sound like herpes. Maybe you start wearing tights or heavy leggings or something with wool or whatnot that your thighs do not like lol. Has a doctor ever seen it?
Herpes doesn't cause hives itself, though some people can get hives from having a viral infection or other illness.
It sounds like you have super sensitive skin. I understand that one personally. I have to use dye- and scent-free laundry detergent, my soaps and cleansers (body and face) are all "gentle" or "for sensitive skin", etc. I can't use toilet paper that has any print or scent to it.
There is a condition called vulvodynia - literally, pain of the vulva. I don't know if that's what you have, or if you meet the criteria for the diagnosis. You can google it and see if it fits. Without knowing how long it's been, exposures, etc., I can't say much about this except let you know it exists.
18 Comments
Jess- thank you so much for your timely and through response- you are genuinely appreciated :)
So they did not test me for a UTI, which made sense as I did not have any frequent need to urinate or what I felt to be other UTI symptoms (I’ve had them before and isn’t being female a blast?)
I do have sensitive skin for sure- so much so that I actually only use scent free detergent- and only water on my “cash and prizes” haha. I try not to exacerbate an already sensitive area. The only thing I can think of that I had done to “trigger” all of this was wear non cotton underwear- which happened to cause a good deal of moisture down yonder…and the next day I had a seriously painful patch of skin that hurt to touch. It only lasted a few days, and I had no lesions or sores present that I could see. I’ve noticed when there is too much moisture present- I end up “sore” down there- I wonder if it’s due to chapping. I don’t feel like I’m in a high risk situation, as I am in a monogamous relationship for the last 5 years - the potential exposure I am referring to was from one night (the literal only night in my entire life where I blacked out) and have no memory of what happened- just prior to this relationship- is what’s causing my concern. The timing of the flu like illness and hives (7 days after) and the recurring summer rash (I was seen for, and the MD had no real ideas what it was but did not mention herpes at all) has me worried due to that.
I was tested at Planned Parenthood in 2014 via IGG and was negative for both HSV-1 & HSV-2, so I had a baseline prior to that at least.
I’m sorry for the novel! Lol but just wanted to answer your questions. Thank you again!
So they did not test me for a UTI, which made sense as I did not have any frequent need to urinate or what I felt to be other UTI symptoms (I’ve had them before and isn’t being female a blast?)
I do have sensitive skin for sure- so much so that I actually only use scent free detergent- and only water on my “cash and prizes” haha. I try not to exacerbate an already sensitive area. The only thing I can think of that I had done to “trigger” all of this was wear non cotton underwear- which happened to cause a good deal of moisture down yonder…and the next day I had a seriously painful patch of skin that hurt to touch. It only lasted a few days, and I had no lesions or sores present that I could see. I’ve noticed when there is too much moisture present- I end up “sore” down there- I wonder if it’s due to chapping. I don’t feel like I’m in a high risk situation, as I am in a monogamous relationship for the last 5 years - the potential exposure I am referring to was from one night (the literal only night in my entire life where I blacked out) and have no memory of what happened- just prior to this relationship- is what’s causing my concern. The timing of the flu like illness and hives (7 days after) and the recurring summer rash (I was seen for, and the MD had no real ideas what it was but did not mention herpes at all) has me worried due to that.
I was tested at Planned Parenthood in 2014 via IGG and was negative for both HSV-1 & HSV-2, so I had a baseline prior to that at least.
I’m sorry for the novel! Lol but just wanted to answer your questions. Thank you again!
I also have internal hemmerhoids, and what seems like non stop itchy in both front and back genital areas lately. I always seem to experience excessive warmth and mild burning with urination as well, which I’ve just literally always ignored - and now I’m wondering if that’s been a herpes symptom all along.
Oh do I feel you. The non-cotton underwear can be a nightmare, and water only is fine - that's all you need.
I'm not a doctor, but I've had a UTI with only burning. Unless you are self-paying, or have lousy insurance, and are trying to save money, it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't at least do an in-office dipstick test to rule that out, or look for blood in your urine. You can buy at home UTI test kits - might be worth at least ruling it out.
You can always get a type specific IgG test again. LetsGetChecked.com is a place you can get it done on your own, or go to Planned Parenthood, your doctor - whatever works for you. It's been more than enough time that the IgG would be accurate.
Yes, it's a thrill a minute being a woman, and playing the "what's causing my vaginal discomfort" game.
It really doesn't sound like herpes, but I understand the worry, so why not just test and answer your questions on it?
I'm not a doctor, but I've had a UTI with only burning. Unless you are self-paying, or have lousy insurance, and are trying to save money, it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't at least do an in-office dipstick test to rule that out, or look for blood in your urine. You can buy at home UTI test kits - might be worth at least ruling it out.
You can always get a type specific IgG test again. LetsGetChecked.com is a place you can get it done on your own, or go to Planned Parenthood, your doctor - whatever works for you. It's been more than enough time that the IgG would be accurate.
Yes, it's a thrill a minute being a woman, and playing the "what's causing my vaginal discomfort" game.
It really doesn't sound like herpes, but I understand the worry, so why not just test and answer your questions on it?
Thank you Jess- you’re the best. Take good care of yourself!
Thanks :) You too!
Jess~
Is the percentage of people who actually have HSV2 with no true OB high? I know folks either have OBs or they don’t the majority of the time- but do a lot of people not show symptoms? Thank you so much again!
Is the percentage of people who actually have HSV2 with no true OB high? I know folks either have OBs or they don’t the majority of the time- but do a lot of people not show symptoms? Thank you so much again!
Well, we don't really know that. At one time, we thought most were asymptomatic, then we realized that at least 50% of those who tested positive on the hsv2 IgG with an index value under 3.5 were false positives (and some who have higher values and are asymptomatic).
So, it's still a good number, but at one time they thought it was as many as 70-80% who are asymptomatic. Now, we don't really know.
However, you're symptomatic of something. We do know that there really isn't much of a thing called "atypical herpes". It's a term that gets thrown around a lot, but constant symptoms are not herpes.
About 6 months or so ago, I was having a ton of symptoms - itching, rawness, burning, etc. It felt like I was having constant herpes outbreaks, but I had no sores. I finally decided to stop using toilet paper and started using wipes - scent-free, dye-free wipes, and it's gone. Since you're sensitive to a lot of other things, maybe that's it. I've since talked to other women on other sites who had the same thing.
I don't know if toilet papers have changed formulas, or if we are changing, but I'm older and never had issues with toilet paper, so just consider it.
Have you considered testing again?
So, it's still a good number, but at one time they thought it was as many as 70-80% who are asymptomatic. Now, we don't really know.
However, you're symptomatic of something. We do know that there really isn't much of a thing called "atypical herpes". It's a term that gets thrown around a lot, but constant symptoms are not herpes.
About 6 months or so ago, I was having a ton of symptoms - itching, rawness, burning, etc. It felt like I was having constant herpes outbreaks, but I had no sores. I finally decided to stop using toilet paper and started using wipes - scent-free, dye-free wipes, and it's gone. Since you're sensitive to a lot of other things, maybe that's it. I've since talked to other women on other sites who had the same thing.
I don't know if toilet papers have changed formulas, or if we are changing, but I'm older and never had issues with toilet paper, so just consider it.
Have you considered testing again?
You’re the sweetest. Thank you for getting back so quickly! Ironically I did the same thing some time ago with the scent free wipes, but it made my skin even more raw due to the excess moisture never getting fully removed. I 100% have considered testing again, but I’m struggling with the possibility of false positives vs my actual risk. It’s so hard not having adequate memory of the night- and if I did end up testing positive, and I was negative prior, it would mean I did do something I greatly regret after all. I think that’s the main motivator for me not to, fear. Now I know realistically that my partner has never tested- so if i did somehow come back with a positive, it could have come from him as well- but I think my guilt would just kill me and drastically change our situation (including for my son). I did tell him ALL of this - and he’s such a good guy he’s sticking around- he knows I’m beyond an honest person, so this is wildly out of character. Most people would have dropped this by now if they didn’t even know for sure/think they HAD sex to begin with. My conscience is just REAL- so I never really let it go, and I attribute every little issue I have to “potential” infection- and making my partner suffer unduly. I know all of this just means I should test - I’m just beyond anxious about false positives. My OBGYN keeps saying it’s “statistically very unlikely to have HSV2 without a lesion” but I feel like that’s not necessarily true.
False positives are real, and common enough that your fears are valid. I get it. There are ways to confirm or disprove positive tests, though.
It makes sense that you don't want anything confirmed about that night. Have you ever gotten counseling about that? It concerns me that you are so hard on yourself about it when it sounds like you wouldn't have been able to consent. I'm happy your partner is so understanding, but it sounds like there's good reason for him to be.
"My OBGYN keeps saying it’s “statistically very unlikely to have HSV2 without a lesion” but I feel like that’s not necessarily true." - she's right, in a sense. Lots of people are asymptomatic. You aren't asymptomatic. It is statistically very unlikely for you to have pain from herpes without having an outbreak. You've probably read about post-herpetic neuralgia. This is nerve pain associated with herpes. This happens BECAUSE of an outbreak. Without an outbreak, the nerve pain doesn't happen.
I'm sorry the wipes made things worse. Having a vagina is just not much fun sometimes.
So what happens next for you? Maybe your GYN can do a PCR swab of the area and see if it detects any herpes. This is a really sensitive swab, and you don't need to have an outbreak to have herpes detected. If you're having symptoms - the pain/burning - it might detect something.
It makes sense that you don't want anything confirmed about that night. Have you ever gotten counseling about that? It concerns me that you are so hard on yourself about it when it sounds like you wouldn't have been able to consent. I'm happy your partner is so understanding, but it sounds like there's good reason for him to be.
"My OBGYN keeps saying it’s “statistically very unlikely to have HSV2 without a lesion” but I feel like that’s not necessarily true." - she's right, in a sense. Lots of people are asymptomatic. You aren't asymptomatic. It is statistically very unlikely for you to have pain from herpes without having an outbreak. You've probably read about post-herpetic neuralgia. This is nerve pain associated with herpes. This happens BECAUSE of an outbreak. Without an outbreak, the nerve pain doesn't happen.
I'm sorry the wipes made things worse. Having a vagina is just not much fun sometimes.
So what happens next for you? Maybe your GYN can do a PCR swab of the area and see if it detects any herpes. This is a really sensitive swab, and you don't need to have an outbreak to have herpes detected. If you're having symptoms - the pain/burning - it might detect something.
Jess thank you for taking so much time to respond to me- it means more than you know. I think I’m going to bite the bullet and just get retested via the IGG. It’s not the virus that scares me or causes my anxiety- it’s what it ultimately means happened (if that makes sense). I keep reminding myself that I don’t even KNOW that anything happened for sure, know the other persons status at all, and that even if something did happen- and the other person did have HSV, the odds of a one time encounter/transmission are low. I definitely can’t go on the way I have been though- this anxiety is beyond unhealthy. I need to just know, so I can move forward with whatever the outcome is. I’m much more worried I’ve possibly given it to my long term partner than about myself- that’s where 99% of the anxiety is coming from. Thank you for being so wonderful.
I understand totally. There's a lot riding on this.
I just really hope you aren't blaming yourself, and consider counseling.
A word of caution - there are false positives on the hsv2 IgG test. If you get between a 1.10 and a 3.5, it could be a false positive. We can cross that bridge when we get there. (Yes, we - I'll help walk you through it.)
Hang in there, and be kind to yourself. :)
I just really hope you aren't blaming yourself, and consider counseling.
A word of caution - there are false positives on the hsv2 IgG test. If you get between a 1.10 and a 3.5, it could be a false positive. We can cross that bridge when we get there. (Yes, we - I'll help walk you through it.)
Hang in there, and be kind to yourself. :)
Jess- thank you for being so compassionate. It’s meant more than you know. I’ve run into a road block with IGG testing- my regular OBGYN & local Planned Parenthood are both insistent that without a lesion present ever- herpes is too unlikely to test for - so the blood work hasn’t been ordered. The toughest part is, I know I can order a WB through Terri but I don’t have the money for jr right now- I was just out of work (unpaid) for 2 weeks due to getting COVID over Christmas. On top of it I’ve been still experiencing itching, a vibrating sensation in my vaginal area, and very painful legs (which I know can be attributed to long term COVID effects) - I also know that none of those things without the presence of sores- really indicates herpes (at least I think- please correct me if I’m wrong ). I’m just at such a roadblock with testing- it’s making me crazy. Everyone I talk to is insistent that “no sores = no herpes”
Oh I'm sorry you got COVID - I hope you weren't too sick.
You can get a blood test yourself through LetsGetChecked.com - lets of people here have used them, they use reliable tests, and they run specials all the time.
https://www.letsgetchecked.com/home-herpes-test/
Right now, it's 30% off two tests, and 20% of all tests - https://www.letsgetchecked.com/articles/offers-and-discounts/
It's still a lot - around $100, but it's a lot cheaper than the WB, and a good place to start. There are other places, but I've found they give the best report - they give index values, not just a positive or negative, which some do and is an absolute waste of money, and don't cut it off and say ">5.0", for example, which is also a waste of money. A 5.2 result is quite different than a 23.4, and it's important to know that.
Hang in there, okay?
You can get a blood test yourself through LetsGetChecked.com - lets of people here have used them, they use reliable tests, and they run specials all the time.
https://www.letsgetchecked.com/home-herpes-test/
Right now, it's 30% off two tests, and 20% of all tests - https://www.letsgetchecked.com/articles/offers-and-discounts/
It's still a lot - around $100, but it's a lot cheaper than the WB, and a good place to start. There are other places, but I've found they give the best report - they give index values, not just a positive or negative, which some do and is an absolute waste of money, and don't cut it off and say ">5.0", for example, which is also a waste of money. A 5.2 result is quite different than a 23.4, and it's important to know that.
Hang in there, okay?
You’re an Angel. Thank you Jess. I’m so paranoid- I keep thinking everything is herpes. Do you think all of these things compiled, minus lesions, sound like it?
I don't, but I also think that you need to test to be able to move beyond it, and I totally understand that. I am dumbfounded that no clinician will offer you that.
I've had herpes for 18 years. My worst outbreaks have never lasted longer than a couple of weeks, and then everything goes back to normal. Herpes symptoms wouldn't last so long with nothing changing. I think you have something happening, but we just don't know what.
If you get a false positive, we'll work through that. It's a risk, without a doubt, but there's a really good chance it will just be negative, too.
Have a good weekend, and try to do something fun, safely of course. You've had a lot on your plate.
I've had herpes for 18 years. My worst outbreaks have never lasted longer than a couple of weeks, and then everything goes back to normal. Herpes symptoms wouldn't last so long with nothing changing. I think you have something happening, but we just don't know what.
If you get a false positive, we'll work through that. It's a risk, without a doubt, but there's a really good chance it will just be negative, too.
Have a good weekend, and try to do something fun, safely of course. You've had a lot on your plate.
Have a wonderful weekend <3 thank you for everything. Sincerely.
Hey Jess<3
I have an IGG scheduled Wednesday (finally).
Do you happen to know how likely both partners being asymptomatic, but actually positive, is? I know I’m not officially (and likely am not at all positive for HSV-2- as even if there was intercourse that night, and even if the other person DID have HSV, it would still be low odds- I just don’t know how low) but as you know my only concern is my long term partner- which is why I’ve been so sick about this. Thank you so much!
I have an IGG scheduled Wednesday (finally).
Do you happen to know how likely both partners being asymptomatic, but actually positive, is? I know I’m not officially (and likely am not at all positive for HSV-2- as even if there was intercourse that night, and even if the other person DID have HSV, it would still be low odds- I just don’t know how low) but as you know my only concern is my long term partner- which is why I’ve been so sick about this. Thank you so much!
I don't have odds for that, and we don't truly know how many people are asymptomatic. We used to think it was a lot, until we realized that the hsv2 IgG had a lot of false positives.
Are you trying to guess the odds of both you and your partner being asymptomatic? That would be possible, but I'd guess the chances are low. The odds are better that you wouldn't transmit it - if you have it (again - unlikely), the chances of a male getting it from you in a long term, monogamous relationship while just avoiding sex during an outbreak is only 4% a year.
Even if something happened that night, the chances of you getting anything are very low, as you know.
I'm glad you are getting tested. I know it's scary as hell, but you need to know this. Super proud of you. <3
Are you trying to guess the odds of both you and your partner being asymptomatic? That would be possible, but I'd guess the chances are low. The odds are better that you wouldn't transmit it - if you have it (again - unlikely), the chances of a male getting it from you in a long term, monogamous relationship while just avoiding sex during an outbreak is only 4% a year.
Even if something happened that night, the chances of you getting anything are very low, as you know.
I'm glad you are getting tested. I know it's scary as hell, but you need to know this. Super proud of you. <3
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
