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Is B12 or MPV levels related to lymphoma?
I am mostly over my concern of my nodes however there are a few recurrent things popping up in my routine bloodwork. My WBC count is typically flagged as low (cutoff is 4.5 I am 3.6-4.1 usually) although that has been that way a long time. My MPV however only started flagging low when the nodes popped up (I did yearly blood screening through parents work) anywhere from 8.9-9.1 with the cutoff being 9.4 for low end. Also once my BUN/creatinine ratio was ever so slightly low but both the individual levels were normal so I’m not very worried about that.
I guess I just know they say both WBC and MPV have to do with bone marrow and am curious about any potnetial connections. I often have low vitamin D if that could be related?
I guess I just know they say both WBC and MPV have to do with bone marrow and am curious about any potnetial connections. I often have low vitamin D if that could be related?
COMMUNITY LEADER
"or is short axis the ‘shortest’ axis of 0.30 cm?"
No, saying the 'short axis' is just convention of referring to the width, not the length and also not the height.
Looking at a ship from above, the length is bow to stern, the width is starboard to port, the height is vertical height up and down.
I suppose there can be a very rare exception, as always.
No, saying the 'short axis' is just convention of referring to the width, not the length and also not the height.
Looking at a ship from above, the length is bow to stern, the width is starboard to port, the height is vertical height up and down.
I suppose there can be a very rare exception, as always.
COMMUNITY LEADER
"I’m more likely to have other fibrotic tendencies"
Yes, that is an astute observation. Everyone makes fibrosis when needed, but some people over react and make too much or make it too readily - as an immune over reaction. We can say that fibrocytes (cells) are part of the immune system. The fibrocytes (troops) get summoned to an area by other immune cells (commanders) exuding chemical signals, and they transform themselves and start making the fibrosis (mostly collagen) because of successive chemical signals.
Some immune systems over react, some under react, as most everything is on a bell curve.
So maybe yours over reacts. EXCEPT if that extra virulent virus you had also provoked extra fibrosis. But then again, the other people who had that same virus would have had fibrotic nodes also. Have you by chance asked them to examine themselves? Though maybe because of not being extra lean, they wouldn't be able to palpate any even if present.
Yes, that is an astute observation. Everyone makes fibrosis when needed, but some people over react and make too much or make it too readily - as an immune over reaction. We can say that fibrocytes (cells) are part of the immune system. The fibrocytes (troops) get summoned to an area by other immune cells (commanders) exuding chemical signals, and they transform themselves and start making the fibrosis (mostly collagen) because of successive chemical signals.
Some immune systems over react, some under react, as most everything is on a bell curve.
So maybe yours over reacts. EXCEPT if that extra virulent virus you had also provoked extra fibrosis. But then again, the other people who had that same virus would have had fibrotic nodes also. Have you by chance asked them to examine themselves? Though maybe because of not being extra lean, they wouldn't be able to palpate any even if present.
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I got hit harder than most of the others and the doctor was starting to wonder if mine wasn’t transforming into a a walking pneumonia case (I was outside in the cold the first couple days of it) while we all needed antibiotics I didn’t get them until the second week, everyone else I know personally got them in the first week (docs in our area had seen the trend going around) so mine had much more time to take hold. Still like you say I am much leaner than most.
However does that one node measurement mean the short axis is over a CM or is short axis the ‘shortest’ axis of 0.30 cm? I’m just confused on where that falls and what is being measured.
However does that one node measurement mean the short axis is over a CM or is short axis the ‘shortest’ axis of 0.30 cm? I’m just confused on where that falls and what is being measured.
COMMUNITY LEADER
"but my pcp, and the other 2 ENT’s said they feel they went fibrotic after my bad chest cold"
I'd go along with that, too. It's not uncommon, which is different than being common.
Permanent? Probably, but who in medicine has tried to reduce that, since it's not a big deal per se?
But what is a big deal is e.g. pulmonary fibrosis. There apparently are anti-fibrotic drugs, most of which are tyrosine kinase inhibitors if I remember correctly - effectively a specific type of anti inflammatory.
I'd go along with that, too. It's not uncommon, which is different than being common.
Permanent? Probably, but who in medicine has tried to reduce that, since it's not a big deal per se?
But what is a big deal is e.g. pulmonary fibrosis. There apparently are anti-fibrotic drugs, most of which are tyrosine kinase inhibitors if I remember correctly - effectively a specific type of anti inflammatory.
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So does that mean that having a node go fibrotic means I’m more likely to have other fibrotic tendencies or just you’re giving a parallel? To some extent don’t all our bodies have fibrotic tendencies when it comes to injury?
COMMUNITY LEADER
"...credence to the theory of a tooth deal"
Probably yes. You can find illustrations of lymph vessels and see if they line up. Whatever was causing the big node to react, isn't doing that so much anymore. Maybe the fibrosis is all that's remaining. You might remember that I'd been saying that a biopsy would see not only fibrosis but also inflammatory cells - if the pathologist is told to look for everything not just cancer cells.
That's a big congratulations for the size reduction. It also had been nicely oval.
"I feel like it may be skewed because men rarely have thyroid issues meaning few get an US on the neck and many could have it who don’t [know it]"
Bravo! That is some good higher order thinking.
I'll give a parallel. Many many people over 45 yrs have a 'slipped disc' that causes no symptoms. Then one day, they have back pain, get a scan and are told "There is the source of your pain!" Or, as you have discovered, many people have a mildly positive ANA. Prevalence statistics can be misleading.
Another is how an enlarged Virchow's node (above collarbone) is supposedly highly suggestive of an inner cancer. But of all those who have come through here with a Virchow's, no one had a cancer.
Probably yes. You can find illustrations of lymph vessels and see if they line up. Whatever was causing the big node to react, isn't doing that so much anymore. Maybe the fibrosis is all that's remaining. You might remember that I'd been saying that a biopsy would see not only fibrosis but also inflammatory cells - if the pathologist is told to look for everything not just cancer cells.
That's a big congratulations for the size reduction. It also had been nicely oval.
"I feel like it may be skewed because men rarely have thyroid issues meaning few get an US on the neck and many could have it who don’t [know it]"
Bravo! That is some good higher order thinking.
I'll give a parallel. Many many people over 45 yrs have a 'slipped disc' that causes no symptoms. Then one day, they have back pain, get a scan and are told "There is the source of your pain!" Or, as you have discovered, many people have a mildly positive ANA. Prevalence statistics can be misleading.
Another is how an enlarged Virchow's node (above collarbone) is supposedly highly suggestive of an inner cancer. But of all those who have come through here with a Virchow's, no one had a cancer.
COMMUNITY LEADER
"prominence of going by the specific lab?"
Because their procedures might be a little different, so their numeric results don't go precisely with other labs. Any lab might use a 'kit' that comes from various manufacturers.
"now is MPV worrying given the kidney function levels are normal?"
Nope, I think it'd be the opposite - worrisome only with bad kidneys. Plus it's not very low.
Btw, normal levels in tests often get established just something like this: 95% of healthy people have a level in the "normal" range, so they designate that as normal. Some people will inevitably be normal and healthy but will fall outside the "normal" range somewhat anyway.
"Even hematology said they don’t even really use MPV unless someone is anemic to see what kind of anemia they have. Is that generally true?"
Yes, the MPV can help distinguish why platelets are low: whether from destruction (high MPV) or lack of production (low MPV).
"They did still look at the number and didn’t care and they even said WBC can be low in healthy people??"
Yep.
"Like almost a sign of health in certain cases??"
Oh yes, having lowish WBC is very enviable over the decades, as it tends against diseases of chronic inflammation like heart disease and cancer. That's *if* there is no pathological reason for low WBC. Which you don't seem to have. And *if* there are not a lot of resulting infections, which you don't have.
It's possible you are the healthiest person around, except for the little matter of those slightly enlarged nodes.
Northern European ancestry might mean genetics that are adapted to low vit D. So being low might not be detrimental to you as an individual, though it's bad in general for the population. That's just a guess. I'd still take some D3 though; even 20,000 IU as a large dose once a week or two is okay - rather than daily lower amounts.
Because their procedures might be a little different, so their numeric results don't go precisely with other labs. Any lab might use a 'kit' that comes from various manufacturers.
"now is MPV worrying given the kidney function levels are normal?"
Nope, I think it'd be the opposite - worrisome only with bad kidneys. Plus it's not very low.
Btw, normal levels in tests often get established just something like this: 95% of healthy people have a level in the "normal" range, so they designate that as normal. Some people will inevitably be normal and healthy but will fall outside the "normal" range somewhat anyway.
"Even hematology said they don’t even really use MPV unless someone is anemic to see what kind of anemia they have. Is that generally true?"
Yes, the MPV can help distinguish why platelets are low: whether from destruction (high MPV) or lack of production (low MPV).
"They did still look at the number and didn’t care and they even said WBC can be low in healthy people??"
Yep.
"Like almost a sign of health in certain cases??"
Oh yes, having lowish WBC is very enviable over the decades, as it tends against diseases of chronic inflammation like heart disease and cancer. That's *if* there is no pathological reason for low WBC. Which you don't seem to have. And *if* there are not a lot of resulting infections, which you don't have.
It's possible you are the healthiest person around, except for the little matter of those slightly enlarged nodes.
Northern European ancestry might mean genetics that are adapted to low vit D. So being low might not be detrimental to you as an individual, though it's bad in general for the population. That's just a guess. I'd still take some D3 though; even 20,000 IU as a large dose once a week or two is okay - rather than daily lower amounts.
1 Comments
So I got a couple very BIG things to bring up. On review of old ultrasound notes it shows a submandiblar lymph node on the left side at a size of 2.4 by 1.2 by .8cm this was from an ultrasound over a year ago. From what I understand that node is now down to 1.7cm the ones I feel the notes say are ‘shotty’ and along the posterior cervical left chain. However this does give credence to the theory of a tooth deal doesnt it? The largest was under the jaw starting along the left side going down.
Another note is the thyroid cyst. It hasn’t changed in a year on ultrasound but it is a complex cyst. I am a little worried as they say in men a thyroid cyst is a one in three chance of cancer but I would imagine no growth is a good sign on that front too? They weren’t worried because it’s 5 by 4 by 4mm so it is very small. I guess I just have to wonder about that one in three statistic, I feel like it may be skewed because men rearely have thyroid issues meaning few get an US on the neck and many could have it who don’t but I appreciate your thoughts if you have the time.
Another note is the thyroid cyst. It hasn’t changed in a year on ultrasound but it is a complex cyst. I am a little worried as they say in men a thyroid cyst is a one in three chance of cancer but I would imagine no growth is a good sign on that front too? They weren’t worried because it’s 5 by 4 by 4mm so it is very small. I guess I just have to wonder about that one in three statistic, I feel like it may be skewed because men rearely have thyroid issues meaning few get an US on the neck and many could have it who don’t but I appreciate your thoughts if you have the time.
COMMUNITY LEADER
So then, if the nodes are only on one side?
Here's something that strikes me as curious, regarding cervical nodes. If a person gets a cat scratch on one hand, their neck nodes might react. Yet the lymph system does not move from the hand to the neck. It rather goes up the arm, then over to the chest and into the venous circulation near the heart. The neck is not downstream of the hand, yet cat scratch fever is known for enlarged neck nodes.
The point is that it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't jive with the whole downstream theory of nodes - yet it happens. So, anything is possible.
That said, the tooth theory is still the best one at hand, at this point.
Here's something that strikes me as curious, regarding cervical nodes. If a person gets a cat scratch on one hand, their neck nodes might react. Yet the lymph system does not move from the hand to the neck. It rather goes up the arm, then over to the chest and into the venous circulation near the heart. The neck is not downstream of the hand, yet cat scratch fever is known for enlarged neck nodes.
The point is that it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't jive with the whole downstream theory of nodes - yet it happens. So, anything is possible.
That said, the tooth theory is still the best one at hand, at this point.
1 Comments
Again all my doctors for the most part think my nodes are scarred, or fibrotic. I guess nodes occasionally remain permanently enlarged?
I should mention the palpable ones feel almost textbook to what the medical journals describe healthy ones to be ; rubbery, not hard or fixed (although two feel stuck together) mobile and some pea sized and some bean sized. The only oddity is that they are only felt along one chain. I can feel one in my left armpit but again it’s pea sized and to be honest may always have been there, I didn’t start searching for more until the neck nodes. It’s been a year and five months and an ultrasound last week showed no growth. Largest node 1.7 cm by .7cm
Hematology told me unless I had said anything they wouldn’t have even mentioned the palpable ones because to them they felt normal. One of the ENT’s said the same, saying he thought I can feel them due to my light weight. (Hopefully thos doesn’t mean they don’t take my concerns seriously) but my pcp, and the other 2 ENT’s said they feel they went fibrotic after my bad chest cold. They made it sound like that isn’t that uncommon? I haven’t heard that complaint from many but I guess I don’t bring up their lymph nodes much either.
I should mention the palpable ones feel almost textbook to what the medical journals describe healthy ones to be ; rubbery, not hard or fixed (although two feel stuck together) mobile and some pea sized and some bean sized. The only oddity is that they are only felt along one chain. I can feel one in my left armpit but again it’s pea sized and to be honest may always have been there, I didn’t start searching for more until the neck nodes. It’s been a year and five months and an ultrasound last week showed no growth. Largest node 1.7 cm by .7cm
Hematology told me unless I had said anything they wouldn’t have even mentioned the palpable ones because to them they felt normal. One of the ENT’s said the same, saying he thought I can feel them due to my light weight. (Hopefully thos doesn’t mean they don’t take my concerns seriously) but my pcp, and the other 2 ENT’s said they feel they went fibrotic after my bad chest cold. They made it sound like that isn’t that uncommon? I haven’t heard that complaint from many but I guess I don’t bring up their lymph nodes much either.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You do have to go only by the range that the lab provides, not a general range. There is, btw, a wide variety of lab-specific ranges for ANA tests - just to illustrate the point.
Well, if the vit D is very low I'd take a D3 supplement. It can't hurt. Then again, maybe your system actually wants low vit D, but there's no way to know that for sure. Is your ancestry from Northern Europe? Since you say the term 'ginger', I'm guessing British.
Interesting about your sed rate. Let's see... as I recall, elevated sed rate depends on increased overall antibodies and fibrinogen. They make for the formation of RBCs into rouleaux, like stacks of roulette chips, and so those formations settle more quickly. Yet you don't have that situation. Yes, a high sed rate level AFAIK might be 50s and higher.
So whatever is happening in the nodes seems to be very localized. That might bring us back to the tooth, exuding something at the root which makes its way to the nodes. I forget though: if you have nodes both sides? Then that goes against this theory.
Well, if the vit D is very low I'd take a D3 supplement. It can't hurt. Then again, maybe your system actually wants low vit D, but there's no way to know that for sure. Is your ancestry from Northern Europe? Since you say the term 'ginger', I'm guessing British.
Interesting about your sed rate. Let's see... as I recall, elevated sed rate depends on increased overall antibodies and fibrinogen. They make for the formation of RBCs into rouleaux, like stacks of roulette chips, and so those formations settle more quickly. Yet you don't have that situation. Yes, a high sed rate level AFAIK might be 50s and higher.
So whatever is happening in the nodes seems to be very localized. That might bring us back to the tooth, exuding something at the root which makes its way to the nodes. I forget though: if you have nodes both sides? Then that goes against this theory.
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If you don’t mind me asking, what is the prominence of going by the specific lab? The nodes are only on one side. Posterior cervical as well as the front chain along the jugular, now is MPV worrying given the kidney function levels are normal? Again the range for this lab is 9.4-12.4 I was 9.3, then 8.9 then 9.1 over the course of the year. Doctor said since my platelets are normal he’s not concerned at all. Even hematology said they don’t even really use MPV unless someone is anemic to see what kind of anemia they have. Is that generally true? (They did still look at the number and didn’t care and they even said WBC can be low in healthy people?? Like almost a sign of health in certain cases??)
I am of pretty much pure European decent yes, a lot of German and a few others mixed in.
I am of pretty much pure European decent yes, a lot of German and a few others mixed in.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I've seen a lot of people with inflammatory conditions that have low vitamin D. Vit D is anti-inflammatory. I don't think, though, that a person needs high (aka optimal) levels, it's just that very low is bad.
To make it from the sun, you need Mg, which is not particularly prevalent in food.
To make it from the sun, you need Mg, which is not particularly prevalent in food.
2 Comments
I am very very pale. Just naturally. A dermatologist once told me my skin type is like one above a ginger’s. I can’t tan for the life of me and they told me it is strongly accepted that people who don’t tan well actually have a harder time making vitamin D. On top of that I live in a very cold state where a good 7/8 months of the year we are bundled up. They said vitamin D deficiency is incredibly common here.
I should mention too that my sedimentation levels were checked for inflammatory issues and I think it was like 8, the normal range is 1-15 I believe. The doc said in most inflammatory conditions the number is much higher than 15 though.
COMMUNITY LEADER
If a low MPV were caused by lymphoma, then you'd expect the platelet count to also be low (because of marrow suppression).
Platelets start out bigger then get smaller as time goes by; so if new ones aren't being put into circulation, then the average size decreases.
There's something about chronic kidney disease causing low MP but with normal platelet count. But I don't know the mechanism.
Platelets start out bigger then get smaller as time goes by; so if new ones aren't being put into circulation, then the average size decreases.
There's something about chronic kidney disease causing low MP but with normal platelet count. But I don't know the mechanism.
1 Comments
I should mention my office uses a 9.4-12.4 normal range while I’ve seen others use 8.1-11.1 so I would still be normal to that range on MPV. Kidney functions all are good on bloods.
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