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CD57/Lyme co-infections
Just wanted to see if anyone knows if co-infections such as bartonella, parvovirus, cytomegalovirus, and HHV6 could cause low CD57 counts. Mine is at 59 after only two years of Lyme. Also, is it true that bartonella could cause bi-polar disorder?
Regarding CD57. Started at 29. Very lyme/Bart symptomatic. Took antibiotics 2 yrs. Felt better. 6mos ago CD57 at 98. I said hooray! Well currently, feeling good but CD57 at 48. May have yeast or Bact Vag. Seems like somebody who posted that it shows improved score post treatment is correct. However, it could (like in my case) drop again -- meaning HAD chronic lyme and still dealing with lowered immune. What are other people's thoughts?
Just for the record, My CD57 went up from 20 something into the 40's after 5 months ABX. And I feel slightly better after 3 months of herxing.
I was on simple herbals 6 months before ABX, so I dont know what my base line CD57 origionaly was.
I was on simple herbals 6 months before ABX, so I dont know what my base line CD57 origionaly was.
Unfortunately the 6 weeks of abx won't do it. You need months/years of abx or herbals in a row.
There is Lyme in every state but finding a true Lyme literate Doctor is not easy.
I tried finding a cardiologist because I got congestive heart failure from the co-infection, Bartonella. The woman Dr actually laughed and yelled at me. I got up and walked out.
I decided I am going to keep a copy of my IgeneX tests that says I am CDC positive for Lyme and 3 other co-infections with me in my purse from now on.
There is Lyme in every state but finding a true Lyme literate Doctor is not easy.
I tried finding a cardiologist because I got congestive heart failure from the co-infection, Bartonella. The woman Dr actually laughed and yelled at me. I got up and walked out.
I decided I am going to keep a copy of my IgeneX tests that says I am CDC positive for Lyme and 3 other co-infections with me in my purse from now on.
Yes, Florida is a tough place to find a good doc for this these days, even though ILADS says that 1 in 6 ticks now carry Lyme here in the sunshine state. I must have seen 10 doctors who said there is no Lyme in Florida before I was passed a note by a nurse who had a friend who was properly treated. At least I was able to educate and treat myself the last two years, since the only other knowledgeable doctor I've seen here was good enough to give me an on the spot clinical diagnosis with the erythema migrans, and set me on a course of antibiotics to try to kill it at the start. I did not even know what Lyme was at that point, but HE said that he heard it was on the rise here in Florida, and this is the first bull's eye he has actually seen himself. Unfortunately, the 6 week course at the start was not able to kill it off, because I've gotten the signature rash back in the same spot 5 times since then, each time making sure I got prescribed some antibiotics from SOMEBODY, and treating myself with herbals and supplements in between.
Thank you. Yes, its a sign of your immune system and how it's doing. My LLMD and I are working on increasing mine.
I think you have lyme also with the bulleseye rash. I am glad you found a good LLMD in central Fl. I live on the west coast of Fl and found a good one but I know many others have problems finding good ones from my Fl support groups.
I think you have lyme also with the bulleseye rash. I am glad you found a good LLMD in central Fl. I live on the west coast of Fl and found a good one but I know many others have problems finding good ones from my Fl support groups.
So, there are multiple infections that could cause CD-57 to be low. I'm still pretty sure I have Lyme though, because of the bull's eye rash. Hopefully they'll find a way to raise that count of only 8, because it does seem pretty vital to your overall health, no matter what the cause.
You asked about Bartonella causing bi-polar and the answer is yes it could. I know 2 people who became bi-polar from Bart's. Several people became OCD and I became depressed and full of anxiety because of it.
My Doctor uses the CD-57. Mine doesn't go up and down. It has been very low and I am still very sick.
It's just that so much has been written about it lately that Burascano now leactures to use CD-4.
Something interesting, my fiancé has been in the hospital 5 months with 2 different strains of MRSA. Now that the MRSA is gone the Dr is waiting for his CD-57 to get to 60 before letting Him come home. 6 more points to go.
It's just that so much has been written about it lately that Burascano now leactures to use CD-4.
Something interesting, my fiancé has been in the hospital 5 months with 2 different strains of MRSA. Now that the MRSA is gone the Dr is waiting for his CD-57 to get to 60 before letting Him come home. 6 more points to go.
The one good Lyme literate doctor that I found in the Central Florida area, a member of ILADS, thinks that the CD-57 can be a good marker for the progression of Lyme, but some people have multiple disorders or infections that can cause it to remain low.
" I find way too much conflicting information. I quit doing much research as I am getting information overload. "
That's where critical thinking or scientific skepticism comes into play.
If those hard for you, then this is a good opportunity to develop an ease with them.
Here is a good site that explains how to evaluate information found on the Internet. I know it's a lot of words to sift through but just take it slow, bit by bit.
http://guides.library.jhu.edu/content.php?pid=198142&sid=1657518
Try using Google Scholar. I just plugged in CD57 Lyme and got this page:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=CD57+Lyme&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C38&as_sdtp=
I don't see where the study performed for the CD57 was replicated except there was another study that denied the efficacy of it. See what you think.
A very short version, when using white-bread google (the one most people use) is to look for domains ending in .edu or .gov. That doesn't guarantee everything there is true (look what the CDC.gov page says about Lyme) but it's a lot better than a site selling something---- either a product or a bias.
That's where critical thinking or scientific skepticism comes into play.
If those hard for you, then this is a good opportunity to develop an ease with them.
Here is a good site that explains how to evaluate information found on the Internet. I know it's a lot of words to sift through but just take it slow, bit by bit.
http://guides.library.jhu.edu/content.php?pid=198142&sid=1657518
Try using Google Scholar. I just plugged in CD57 Lyme and got this page:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=CD57+Lyme&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C38&as_sdtp=
I don't see where the study performed for the CD57 was replicated except there was another study that denied the efficacy of it. See what you think.
A very short version, when using white-bread google (the one most people use) is to look for domains ending in .edu or .gov. That doesn't guarantee everything there is true (look what the CDC.gov page says about Lyme) but it's a lot better than a site selling something---- either a product or a bias.
"Google IS your friend". I find way too much conflicting information. I quit doing much research as I am getting information overload. And that is no fun, particularly when I'm getting so much conflicting information. Makes me wanna rip my hair out! I am basically going by my own personal situation more than anyone else's. There is no reason mine should be so low. As I said, the rest of my immune system checks out fine even though I am so sick. Hmm... But I completely understand what you are saying. My doctor said the same thing. I will just have to see what MY CD57 count does.
You can employ critical thinking or scientific skepticism and not rely on opinions from forum members.
PubMed is a good resource but heavy reading and the need for learning a 'new language' is imperative. :)
In the case of the CD57 tests and it's validity I simply could not find a good reason for why there were normal results from (MANY) people who were VERY sick and low results for (MANY) people who felt fine but were infected with Lyme.
I would welcome a scientific reason for that conundrum that would hold true for all (or certainly a large percentage) people. The number of people used in the studies for the CD57 were fairly small and I don't think it's ever been replicated, but I'd have to check on that using the Internet. :)
Google IS your friend.
PubMed is a good resource but heavy reading and the need for learning a 'new language' is imperative. :)
In the case of the CD57 tests and it's validity I simply could not find a good reason for why there were normal results from (MANY) people who were VERY sick and low results for (MANY) people who felt fine but were infected with Lyme.
I would welcome a scientific reason for that conundrum that would hold true for all (or certainly a large percentage) people. The number of people used in the studies for the CD57 were fairly small and I don't think it's ever been replicated, but I'd have to check on that using the Internet. :)
Google IS your friend.
I don't know what to believe, that's the problem. I'm just confused I guess. Maybe it's meaningless in some and not so much others?? I don't know.
Yeah, but I still have mixed feelings about the CD57 count. So far I have had a normal CD4, a normal CD56, normal IgG subclass, and everything else has came back completely normal. But I have the lowest CD57 count that the doctor has ever seen (It began at a 5 and now I'm at an 8), so I just cannot help but think it must have some sort of meaning behind it. It certainly matches the way that I feel, that's for sure.
But I'm still tagging along. Just not 110% convinced that it is a completely meaningless test.
But I'm still tagging along. Just not 110% convinced that it is a completely meaningless test.
LOL
Anyone wanting to know what I think about the CD57 can do a search here.
I think it's time for Ephedra to take up the baton for the CD57 and other issues. She's coming right along. :)
Anyone wanting to know what I think about the CD57 can do a search here.
I think it's time for Ephedra to take up the baton for the CD57 and other issues. She's coming right along. :)
I don't know anything about STARI, but I read somewhere (and I cannot recall where) that an allergic reaction to a tick bite can produce the same classical bulls eye rash. Not sure how common that is, but just saying.
It sounds as if maybe your body is possibly doing a better job at fighting the infection mojogal. As you know, your body produces antibodies in response to the infection. Maybe you had the other coinfection all along, but your body was not fighting it well enough to provoke an antibody response and therefore a positive result.
Wonder where Cave76 is in this lovely conversation about the CD57 count!
It sounds as if maybe your body is possibly doing a better job at fighting the infection mojogal. As you know, your body produces antibodies in response to the infection. Maybe you had the other coinfection all along, but your body was not fighting it well enough to provoke an antibody response and therefore a positive result.
Wonder where Cave76 is in this lovely conversation about the CD57 count!
Yes after 2 years on abx I am at an 8. I switched to a natural doctor's protocol. Frustrating.
Dr Burascano who is the "grandfather" of Lyme is the one who is now saying CD-4 is the one but as you see, you aren't feeling good and your CD4 is fine so those tests aren't very reliable.
I got my tests done at IgeneX again to find out how I was doing. I found another co-infection and I am now CDC positive and more positive bands on the western blot.
Dr Burascano who is the "grandfather" of Lyme is the one who is now saying CD-4 is the one but as you see, you aren't feeling good and your CD4 is fine so those tests aren't very reliable.
I got my tests done at IgeneX again to find out how I was doing. I found another co-infection and I am now CDC positive and more positive bands on the western blot.
I was given a clinical diagnosis of Lyme because of the classic bull's eye rash, but I heard there is another illness that is known to cause this, STARI, or Southern Tick Associated Rash Illness, which has symptoms similar but not as severe as Lyme, maybe a new version of borreliosis. My fatigue, joint pains, and insomnia can get pretty bad at times though, and I've gone through 5 four to six weeks courses of antibiotics the past 2 years. Anyone know anything about STARI?
The CD57 count was once believed to be an indicator of progress, but no so much any more.
I had this same conversation with my LLMD. She said that it does not make a lot of sense. Some people may be doing well and their numbers never budge. Some can be quite ill and have numbers in the 300's.
It is a good initial test, just to see where one stands as Lyme is known to suppress CD57 counts. However, it is never to be used alone in a diagnoses.
A CD57 count of 59 is not that bad. Mold exposure can lower CD57 counts too.
I had this same conversation with my LLMD. She said that it does not make a lot of sense. Some people may be doing well and their numbers never budge. Some can be quite ill and have numbers in the 300's.
It is a good initial test, just to see where one stands as Lyme is known to suppress CD57 counts. However, it is never to be used alone in a diagnoses.
A CD57 count of 59 is not that bad. Mold exposure can lower CD57 counts too.
I heard the CD57 count should be at least 200 before being taken off antibiotics for Lyme. Is it possible if the count isn't raising after prolonged AB treatment that a different combo of AB's should be considered, possibly IV rocephin with flagyl?
Really? When did they start using CD4 counts for TBIs? I had no idea. My CD57 was extremely low. It began at a 5, yet my CD4 was fine!
Your CD57 is only 8 after two years of treatment?
Your CD57 is only 8 after two years of treatment?
The CD-57 use to be considered a great test to check how you are doing but then came people feeling great but having low CD-57 or vice versa.
Now CD-4 are being used. My CD-57 is 8 after 2 years of treatment.
My CD-4 was bad too.
Now CD-4 are being used. My CD-57 is 8 after 2 years of treatment.
My CD-4 was bad too.
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