Aa
Its the Fall so here I am....
Hi again, guys.
I have been on the boards on and off for the past 4-5 years. I’ve described a bit about my symptoms and what I’ve been going through in other posts. In a nutshell, have been having MS-like symptoms on and off for the past 4 years. It started 4 years ago—in October—and have had several “relapses,” if you will, which all, coincidentally, seem to really flare up in the fall. I will have on and off tingling through the year, but the major "episodes" if you will that really knock me out are seemingly every fall (though last year I dont think I had an isue).
My symptoms this time are very much like the other times they occurred (both last year and the year before) – tingling in all 4 extremities, achyness in my extremities, fatigue, dizziness, and on occasion nausea. This is exactly what happened to me last November-- I was bedridden for 3 days (with tingles) and all my lab results were totally normal- B-12, Sjorgen's, yada yada. I'm currently on day 4 of this.
My concern is that I never really had a full spinal, and it's hard to put to bed when I feel . Since I last posted, I did have a negative C-Spine and Lumbar Spine, but my doctor didn't order the T-Spine. Very frustrating. He had some reason he spouted out at the time, but now that I'm feeling yucky again, I really wish he had done it. Can you all share with me what symptoms would go with T-spine only lesions? Again, I have tingling in arms and legs-- so my concern is that the leg stuff might be missed without the T-spine
As a refresher, 2 separate brain MRIs over a 2-3 year. One MRI was on a 3T and the other a 1.5T. The C-spine and lumbar MRI were done on a 1.5. I know for sure the brain was done with MS protocol. Not sure about the spine, but the only thing that showed was some disc bulging.
I know some of you felt the all 4 extremity symptoms were a red flag for MS, but I am struggling with putting it entirely to bed, though I'd like to. If the T-spine mainly just causes symptoms in the mid-section, I would be less concerned he didn't order it, as my issues are very extremity focused.
Thanks again everyone.
I have been on the boards on and off for the past 4-5 years. I’ve described a bit about my symptoms and what I’ve been going through in other posts. In a nutshell, have been having MS-like symptoms on and off for the past 4 years. It started 4 years ago—in October—and have had several “relapses,” if you will, which all, coincidentally, seem to really flare up in the fall. I will have on and off tingling through the year, but the major "episodes" if you will that really knock me out are seemingly every fall (though last year I dont think I had an isue).
My symptoms this time are very much like the other times they occurred (both last year and the year before) – tingling in all 4 extremities, achyness in my extremities, fatigue, dizziness, and on occasion nausea. This is exactly what happened to me last November-- I was bedridden for 3 days (with tingles) and all my lab results were totally normal- B-12, Sjorgen's, yada yada. I'm currently on day 4 of this.
My concern is that I never really had a full spinal, and it's hard to put to bed when I feel . Since I last posted, I did have a negative C-Spine and Lumbar Spine, but my doctor didn't order the T-Spine. Very frustrating. He had some reason he spouted out at the time, but now that I'm feeling yucky again, I really wish he had done it. Can you all share with me what symptoms would go with T-spine only lesions? Again, I have tingling in arms and legs-- so my concern is that the leg stuff might be missed without the T-spine
As a refresher, 2 separate brain MRIs over a 2-3 year. One MRI was on a 3T and the other a 1.5T. The C-spine and lumbar MRI were done on a 1.5. I know for sure the brain was done with MS protocol. Not sure about the spine, but the only thing that showed was some disc bulging.
I know some of you felt the all 4 extremity symptoms were a red flag for MS, but I am struggling with putting it entirely to bed, though I'd like to. If the T-spine mainly just causes symptoms in the mid-section, I would be less concerned he didn't order it, as my issues are very extremity focused.
Thanks again everyone.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi again Lauren,
I really think your more likely dealing with a seasonal related trigger,the Fall season being the right time of year to set it off. Migraines actually do have an association with the Fall season and your combination of symptoms (including all peripheral limb tingling) are commonly related to migraines, so seasonal migraine is an idea to consider.....
Generally the higher the spinal cord lesions or spinal cord damage the more problems occur below it, a T-spine lesion is unlikely to explain all the symptoms you experience, it's also bilaterally both upper and lower neurons so it would have to be high enough and large enough to cut off the cord and bilaterally effect arms and legs, i really don't think a T-spine cord lesion(s) or structural issue would account for it, there's still the Fall season connection you have too.
"...The cervical cord innervates the deltoids (C4), biceps (C4-5), wrist extensors (C6), triceps (C7), wrist extensors (C8), and hand muscles (C8-T1).
The Thoracic Cord. The thoracic vertebral segments are defined by those that have a rib. These vertebral segments are also very special because they form the back wall of the pulmonary cavity and the ribs. The spinal roots form the intercostal (between the ribs) nerves that run on the bottom side of the ribs and connect to the intercostal muscles and associated dermatomes.
The Lumbosacral Cord. The lumbosacral vertebra form the remainder of the segments below the vertebrae of the thorax. The lumbosacral spinal cord, however, starts at about T9 and continues only to L2. It contains most of the segments that innervate the hip and legs, as well as the buttocks and anal regions."
http://www.travisroyfoundation.org/sci/resources/spinal-cord-injury-levels-classification/
"In the thoracic spine, unlike the lumbar or cervical spine, the anatomy is somewhat different and that changes the way the mechanics of the spine are responsible for the injury or the pain that comes from that region. So, the thoracic spine is different because it has the rib cage. The rib cage provides rigidity and reduces motion. Now, because of that, the injury to that region is quite different than it is for higher-mobile regions, such as cervical spine or lumbar spine.
That's why the disc herniations that are common in the lumbar and cervical spine are not as common. In fact, they are very uncommon in the thoracic spine. So, the more common causes of upper back pain is caused by either a joint dysfunction or the muscle and connective tissue irritation."
http://www.spine-health.com/video/causes-upper-back-pain-video
A potential rational behind your neuro not running the T-spine is that disc issues are very uncommon in this location, and it's true that 'all peripherals' are one of the MS red flags, it's more commonly related to the peripheral nervous system than the central which is MS. Bilateral is uncommon in MS though it does happen if the lesion is big enough to cut the cord like TM lesions do, bilaterally upper and lower limbs are honestly less like to be caused by a neurological condition like MS.
Hope that helps........JJ
I really think your more likely dealing with a seasonal related trigger,the Fall season being the right time of year to set it off. Migraines actually do have an association with the Fall season and your combination of symptoms (including all peripheral limb tingling) are commonly related to migraines, so seasonal migraine is an idea to consider.....
Generally the higher the spinal cord lesions or spinal cord damage the more problems occur below it, a T-spine lesion is unlikely to explain all the symptoms you experience, it's also bilaterally both upper and lower neurons so it would have to be high enough and large enough to cut off the cord and bilaterally effect arms and legs, i really don't think a T-spine cord lesion(s) or structural issue would account for it, there's still the Fall season connection you have too.
"...The cervical cord innervates the deltoids (C4), biceps (C4-5), wrist extensors (C6), triceps (C7), wrist extensors (C8), and hand muscles (C8-T1).
The Thoracic Cord. The thoracic vertebral segments are defined by those that have a rib. These vertebral segments are also very special because they form the back wall of the pulmonary cavity and the ribs. The spinal roots form the intercostal (between the ribs) nerves that run on the bottom side of the ribs and connect to the intercostal muscles and associated dermatomes.
The Lumbosacral Cord. The lumbosacral vertebra form the remainder of the segments below the vertebrae of the thorax. The lumbosacral spinal cord, however, starts at about T9 and continues only to L2. It contains most of the segments that innervate the hip and legs, as well as the buttocks and anal regions."
http://www.travisroyfoundation.org/sci/resources/spinal-cord-injury-levels-classification/
"In the thoracic spine, unlike the lumbar or cervical spine, the anatomy is somewhat different and that changes the way the mechanics of the spine are responsible for the injury or the pain that comes from that region. So, the thoracic spine is different because it has the rib cage. The rib cage provides rigidity and reduces motion. Now, because of that, the injury to that region is quite different than it is for higher-mobile regions, such as cervical spine or lumbar spine.
That's why the disc herniations that are common in the lumbar and cervical spine are not as common. In fact, they are very uncommon in the thoracic spine. So, the more common causes of upper back pain is caused by either a joint dysfunction or the muscle and connective tissue irritation."
http://www.spine-health.com/video/causes-upper-back-pain-video
A potential rational behind your neuro not running the T-spine is that disc issues are very uncommon in this location, and it's true that 'all peripherals' are one of the MS red flags, it's more commonly related to the peripheral nervous system than the central which is MS. Bilateral is uncommon in MS though it does happen if the lesion is big enough to cut the cord like TM lesions do, bilaterally upper and lower limbs are honestly less like to be caused by a neurological condition like MS.
Hope that helps........JJ
1 Comments
Thanks so much supermum. I always appreciate you. I am beginning to wonder if it might be Lupus. About a year ago, I developed melasma on my cheeks that perhaps could resemble the lupus butterfly rash, though it's brown and not red. I have an appointment with my GP on Thursday and I am going to talk through all of this with him. I'm glad you don't think the T-Spine would account for the symptoms, as thats the only thing I've yet to test.
I agree...there definitely does seem to be a Fall connection. I know with certain conditions, like fibro, RA, and lupus, there can be a seasonal aspect...I think I read that all of those are more likely when the days are shorter. I don't think I've ever had a problem in the summer. Clearly the answer is that I just need to move to HI! ;)
I agree...there definitely does seem to be a Fall connection. I know with certain conditions, like fibro, RA, and lupus, there can be a seasonal aspect...I think I read that all of those are more likely when the days are shorter. I don't think I've ever had a problem in the summer. Clearly the answer is that I just need to move to HI! ;)
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