urine testing

[BubbaJohn]

iT LOOKS LIKE All of us that are using Fentenyl as a pain reliever should all be driving nice expensive cars because we are all making a ton of money selling out patches to everyone.

Hell I can't stop them from sending me too many hydrocoden but I guess it is ok that I use as much as I want of that drug.  Is there anyone else on this list that is using the VA as a source for their medications, I am wondering if they are watching this because of the cost of the medication.

[Tuckamore]

Melissa,

No need to apologize. We are all entitled to our opinions and you said absolutely nothing wrong.  I am sorry if I indicated otherwise...honest.

Your point about education oneself is right on.  It is imperative that we do that with everything. In this day and age of computer technology information is at your fingertips and should be utilized before undergoing treatments, surgery or even swallow a pill. Of course that information should be in addition to a detailed discussion with your physician.  I thank you for bringing that fact up.

~Tuck

[melissaky]

My main point was that he educate himself first .I am sorry if my post was unclear .I was merely sharing what I had heard about it .I may have been a little too fervent against the Suboxone and for that I apologize. Bubba John will have to make that choice for himself .It is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff sometimes with these drugs .I was going on what I had read and my friend's personal experiences .Both of you called me on it and rightly so .I will use better judgement in the future when I answer these posts.I appreciate both of your replies to me and wish you and Bubba John the best .Thanks,  Melissa

[el_em_en_oh]

Well said Tuck. I couldn't agree more.

~When taken correctly & as prescribed~ is the key to taking Suboxone. Your friend that said that Suboxone "was the worst withdrawal he ever had" hit the nail on the head. I have known people to w/d more easily from heroin & alcohol, than from Suboxone.

When administered in a controlled environment and under strict supervision, Suboxone can be extremely useful/helpful in opiate withdrawl, but when prescribed willy-nilly and just handed to an addict as a 'cure' for their opiate addiction (and left to them to administer to themselves, unsupervised), it can be more addictive than the opiates themselves.

Tuck hit the correct note in saying that "If there is a way to abuse it, they will find it. However that does not mean that chronic pain patients should not take this or that opiate". Suboxone, as with any narcotic, is abuseable(sp?), but taken correctly, can be helpful.

My 2 cents...

LMNO

[Tuckamore]

Melissa,

I promise you that you will hear that this or that drug is the worst drug to withdraw from, all depending on the individuals experience and their systems. When used correctly and for what it was intended to be used for, Suboxone can be effective.

But you are very correct that one should educate themselves before they take anything. I mean anything. Know what you are putting in your system, weight the pros and cons.

Unfortunately most narcotics are being used for recreational purposes by all kinds of ppl, kids or not. If there is a way to abuse it, they will find it. However that does not mean that chronic pain patients should not take this or that opiate. I don't know a narcotic that is not addictive, including suboxone.

We are always thankful for any heads up. So thank you for sharing your thoughts. They are always appreciated.

~Tuck

[melissaky]

Hi Bubba John ! I wanted to welcome you as well and tell you how sorry i am that you have had to go through this. I hope you are not talking about Suboxin( spelling may be wrong) .I have read in numerous places about this drug being given to get people off of opiates only to cause even worse withdrawal than the opiates .One of my friends said it was the worst withdrawal he ever had .I know this is being used a lot anymore to get people off of opiates.I just want you to be careful to not go from the frying pan into the fire .Also ,I have read that this drug is addictive too.A lot of the young kids are using it recreationally .I just want you to educate yourself before you get involved with it.I hope everything works out good for you .Please keep posting and let us know how everything goes .Take care , Melissa

[Tuckamore]

Hello Again Bubba John, (Love your screen name. It makes me smile.)

Is the drug Suboxone maybe?

I am so sorry that you fell. Thank goodness that nothing is broken.

Yes you have reached the heights of insult!! I am trying to make sense out of your most recent physician's rationale. What type of a physician did you last see? A GP, neurologist or what? How educated is she in PM?

First of all according to all I have read and all I have been told, a diuretic will not wash drugs out of your system. If it did every illegally user certainly be looking for them before a drug screen.

If you still are applying the patch as you always have I cannot imagine that you are going through a withdrawal. If you have not decreased your narcotic intake it seems far fetched to me. Somebody help me with this one!!!

I too am sick to death of taking narcotics and all the garbage that goes with it. But I don't fool myself for more than a minute. I could not tolerate the pain without this pills. It's a fact of life for me.

I don't know your pain levels or the source of your pain. If you think you can function to some extent of normal without narcotics than of course I would encourage you to give the no narcotic route a try.

It takes time to get through the withdrawals and it is no walk in the park but after some time (everyone is different with the time period) you should know your true pain level. In my opinion, then and only then will you know where you are and if your life is worse or better with or without pain managment. I've done it and I would rather deal with all the garbage of pain management than to lay on the couch and hope to die before that pain drives me completely crazy. I have come to the conclusion that untreated chronic pain won't kill you, it only makes you wish you were dead. That's my thought for the day! :)

So if you think you would like to try the road without narcotics that I encourage you to give it a try. It is possible that you can make it and than your results will be far different than mine.  

I don't know if the name of the drug you were looking for is Suboxone or not. Ppl on Suboxone have had many different experiences. Suboxone was never intended to be used for pain management. However in some cases physicians are using in in that manner. Suboxone sites continue to say this: "Patients with a clinical need for pain management should not be transferred to a suboxone regimen, even if they are physically dependent on opioids. The neurological changes associated with physical dependence on opioids are predictable and well understood. These changes appear to correct themselves within a period of weeks after opioid use stops."

Please continue to share your thoughts and progress with us. I hope you are having a better day and I will look forward to hearing from you soon.

~Tuck

[BubbaJohn]

Ok now for the height of insult.  Besides all of the issues I have been having with the VA. The doctor who initiated the drug test has left the VA.  It seems he had too many complaints against him.  He He.
but we move forward.  On this past Sunday I fell.  Nothing broken, but I took a pretty bad hit.  By Tuesday I wasn't feeling any better and since I had my second patch on since the fall. ( I am back to changing my patch every 48 hours.) I went to see my new Doctor at the VA to see if there was anything I should get checked.  Well I can out of this appointment with about the strangest diagnosis I have ever had.  This new doctor thinks I am suffering from some form of With drawl from my patch.  She think I have been wearing this patch at this dosage for so long that I am like a heroine addict going through with drawl.  I have the shakes, hot and cold spells (real bad) and very high levels of confusion, enough to wonder if I have early stages of autism or something. I ache all over, I am very emotional and I am sick all the time.  She thinks that I am not getting enough of the stuff and if the high dosage of diuretics is washing some of out of my system that makes it even worse.  She wants me to go to my pain doctor  see what he thinks and possibly get my dosage raised so I don't have these problem.  I am thinking that since my doctor runs another program which is for the removal of addicts from their drugs, I may ask him to put me in that program.  It is like the old methedone programs but with this new drug you don't get addicted.  I don't know the name of it.  If any one can help me out with this information I would appreciate it.  
Please let me know what you think.  Personally If I have to like like this, I think I would rather live with the pain.  Hell I've got it now anyway.

Bubba John

[RunningMom]

I'm so sorry about the fail UA test.  Most of us here have to go through the urine screenings.  

I have heard of these tests giving out false readings and it scares me to death.  I don't take fentanyl, but I am on opioid therapy.  I take my medicine exactly as directed to a T.  I've only been tested once and I'm sure I will be due for another test soon.

I have heard the tests that are sent out to a lab and more extensive then the ones taken and read at the pain clinic.  

I wish you the best of luck and please update us on how you are doing.  

[Tuckamore]

I think everyone that is subject to routine urine drug screening feels similarly to  the way you do. regardless if they are a vet or not. This does not seem to be limited to you....if that makes you feel any better.

The actual statics on the accuracy of the urine drug screening tests are frightening regardless of what opiate you are being prescribed.  There are some conclusive studies that say the error rate is as high as 70%. Doesn't that say if you haven't failed one you will?  Anyone who has failed a drug screen when they were taking their opiates as prescribed will understand the statistics and your frustration.

As I have said repeatedly. The DEA did not launch a war against drug...it's a War against our Chronic Pain Patients and their Prescribing Physicians. I am sorry that this has touched your life also.

My ten your old van is in the shop again for the third time in 2 months so I can assure everyone that I am taking my meds too !! :)    

I am so sorry that you are in this situation. I sincerely hope that the hydrocodone produces some form of pain control for you. Hopefully things will change for the better.

Wishing you the Very Best,
~Tuck

[designgyrl]

First off let me say that I've never used Fentanyl ever and haven't had to do a urine test.  I do take vicodin for my pain.  But what I wanted to say is kind of what you were talking about, I've been reading on the posts lately and it does seem like there are quite a few people that are failing the urine tests with the fentanyl.  I'm  wondering if it is something with the lab tests, or wrong person urine, because from what I've read it just seems like fentanyl stays in your system for a long time.  I'm sorry for the people that can't re-take the test, I think they should allow you to take the test again, let you put on a patch and then later do a urine test in front of them and see if the fentanyl shows up at that time.  Instead these doctors that are testing patients and that are coming back with no fentanyl in their systems are just removing them from  the practice and it just seems so cold.  I'm glad you have hydrocodone to help with your pain, there are some other people on the site that did not pass and have no pain meds and I feel bad for them.  I hope it all works out for you.

[jamlws]

I was just reading all your posts. I just wanted to add that with the VA my father inlaw goes to it seems like they are going thru doctors like crazy, he sees a different dr just about everytime, he got to the point that they was messing everything up and he told them he would only see one doctor and that was his favorite dr. so he only sees her know but he has seen drs that didnt speak clear english and that really upset him.
They had him on 2 different blood pressure pills at once for about 6 months he was feeling very bad and we made him to go his family dr outside of va and he caught it and took him off one of them asap. he started getting better.
so the problem with va that he has is them missing stuff up alot. But my mother inlaw always says he will go in and tell them his back has been killing him and there only answer for it is more meds, they don't like to run tests on him to see WHY it is hurting him.
Not all VAs are like this, but the one he goes to was like that but they have straighted up some or with him seeing only one dr might of made a differece.
I wish you the best
Jamie

[jamlws]

Oh I forgot he has NEVER had to have a urine test thru VA never.
Jamie

[saljalmex]

Nice.

[jamlws]

I know my father inlaw goes to VA and that is where he gets his meds. He does get pain meds but only a weak one. He also gets his blood pressure pills, water pills, insulin, fish oil pills, and like 3 other kind.
It just depends on your pain and what meds you can take and they will send them out when they are due to be sent out. He only gets 90 a month of his pain meds and he takes 3 a day. The other meds they send like crazy but not the pain meds. He is not on the patch and never wants to be.
He gets all of his meds from VA cause ther is no way he has the money to pay for his meds plus he was in the war and all of his problems is because of that.
Jamie