Aa
lower back pain
Hi just I want to ask this question I hope I can find an answer for it.
Last week I was working in childcare because Iam a childcare worker (what happen in that day as udjaly I came to worke and 8:30am I was alone in that room I work in and I do work in age between 3and 5 years old as I saw 2 childrens fitting and I tried to seperate them and lift one child away and Iwas trying to lift the other as sudently felt pain in my lower back).
I went to the doctor and she told me to take a rest for 1 week but after one week I did back again to see a doctor because I m still in pain and the doctor advice me to do X -ray I done it and this is the resulte(There are four lumbar type vertebrea with sacralization of l5. The disc are all well maintained.The neural arches are intact. The facet joints show minor degenerative changes at l5/s1).
So what is that mean can anuone please tell me if this thing could cause from liffting childrens.
Last week I was working in childcare because Iam a childcare worker (what happen in that day as udjaly I came to worke and 8:30am I was alone in that room I work in and I do work in age between 3and 5 years old as I saw 2 childrens fitting and I tried to seperate them and lift one child away and Iwas trying to lift the other as sudently felt pain in my lower back).
I went to the doctor and she told me to take a rest for 1 week but after one week I did back again to see a doctor because I m still in pain and the doctor advice me to do X -ray I done it and this is the resulte(There are four lumbar type vertebrea with sacralization of l5. The disc are all well maintained.The neural arches are intact. The facet joints show minor degenerative changes at l5/s1).
So what is that mean can anuone please tell me if this thing could cause from liffting childrens.
Hello there my name is carren.
I recently found out after having an MRI Scan the following:
THERE IS A LOSS OF DISC HYDRATION AT L5/S1 WITH A SMALL ANNULAR TEAR AND A NON COMPRESSIVE DISC BULGE AT THIS LEVEL. FACET JOINT DEGENERATION IS PRESENT AT L4/5 AND L5/S1. NO OHER SIGNIFICANT ABNORMALITY IS SHOWN.
As I am still awaiting an appointment to discuss the above with the consultant, I was wondering if anyone could explain " what exactly all of the above means" and if there is any treatement or excercise I should be doing whilst waiting for an appointment.
Carren a very lost soul!
I recently found out after having an MRI Scan the following:
THERE IS A LOSS OF DISC HYDRATION AT L5/S1 WITH A SMALL ANNULAR TEAR AND A NON COMPRESSIVE DISC BULGE AT THIS LEVEL. FACET JOINT DEGENERATION IS PRESENT AT L4/5 AND L5/S1. NO OHER SIGNIFICANT ABNORMALITY IS SHOWN.
As I am still awaiting an appointment to discuss the above with the consultant, I was wondering if anyone could explain " what exactly all of the above means" and if there is any treatement or excercise I should be doing whilst waiting for an appointment.
Carren a very lost soul!
Sorry Sali for my absence. I have had a terrible painful week. I will anwser the PM you sent me this afternoon.
Your CT sounds normal to me. I'll catch you on the PM side. we'll chat more.
Tuck
Your CT sounds normal to me. I'll catch you on the PM side. we'll chat more.
Tuck
Hi Tuck this is me again I went to do the CT scan and this is the result (no abnormality is seen at the levels of L2/3,L3/4,L4/5. aT L5/SI there is a transitional type vertebra with sacralisation of L5. The central canal is of adequate proportions. The exit foramina are patent. no abnormality is seen in the sacrum or SI joints.) so what do you think?
thank you
thank you
Hi tuck its me again I went to my doctor yesterday and the doctor told me to do CT for dic lesion and give me another 2 weeks off from work.So what do you now about the CT is that like an X-RAY.
Thank you
Thank you
Hi Sali,
I did respond to your PM. In my humble opinion, if I understood all you have written, you injured your back when you lifted the children, IF you had no pain prior to that time and your pain began at the moment or moments after the incident than what else could it be? You stated that as soon as you lifted one and pulled at the other your pain began. But again I am not a physician and my opinion truly means nothing, it's just my opinion.
Good luck and as always, Take Care, Tuck
I did respond to your PM. In my humble opinion, if I understood all you have written, you injured your back when you lifted the children, IF you had no pain prior to that time and your pain began at the moment or moments after the incident than what else could it be? You stated that as soon as you lifted one and pulled at the other your pain began. But again I am not a physician and my opinion truly means nothing, it's just my opinion.
Good luck and as always, Take Care, Tuck
Ok thank you very much again for your help now I want to understand one more thing from you offcourse if you don't mind SO LIFTTING CHILDRENS HO THE RESONS HO HURT MY BACK AND HURT THE AREA? BECAUSE I DIDN'T FELT ANY PAIN BEFORE WORKING WITH CHILDRENS AND BEFORE LIFTTING THAT 2 CHILDRENS?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hi Sali,
You are not bothering me at all. Let me try to say this without all the razzle dazzle from the medical terms.
It appears that your sacralization is probably been present since you were born and never caused you any pain or issues. Once the children pulled or strained the muscles and surrounding tissue in your back it began to hurt. It may have never hurt had you not suffered an injury. The definition of sacralization is a congenital anomaly in which the fifth lumbar vertebra is fused (joined together as a whole) to the sacrum in varying degrees. Most physicians believe that this in itself will not cause pain but it may be a point and can cause more pain when the area sustains and injury.
"There are four lumbar type vertebrae with sacralization of L5 . The disc are all well maintained. The neural arches are intact." This is all normal other than they are noting that there is a sacralization of L5. L5 is the 5th lumbar vertebrae. According to your post the x-ray does on to say, "The facet joints show minor degenerative changes at l5/s1). " That means there is some degeneration (minor aging type changes) of the facet joints of the L5 and the S1. The S1 is the 1st sacral vertebrae.
Anatomy of facet joints: Nearly every flexible or movable level of the spine (with the exception of the very top vertebra) is comprised of the same elements, including:
Vertebral body, the bony building blocks of the spine
Facet joint, small stabilizing joints located between and behind adjacent vertebrae
Intervertebral disc, which provides a cushion between each of the vertebral bodies and binds them together
So your test says that the facet joints, small stabilizing joints between and behind the vertebrae are showing some old fashion wear and tear, possibly a little inflammation and they call this degeneration. Usually degeneration is seen in older adults but sometimes it can show up at your age.
I hope this has made your test and my comments more understandable. I'm sorry if I was no more clear earlier. If you have additional questions please feel free to ask. I am here as are others to try to help you. Take Care, Tuck
You are not bothering me at all. Let me try to say this without all the razzle dazzle from the medical terms.
It appears that your sacralization is probably been present since you were born and never caused you any pain or issues. Once the children pulled or strained the muscles and surrounding tissue in your back it began to hurt. It may have never hurt had you not suffered an injury. The definition of sacralization is a congenital anomaly in which the fifth lumbar vertebra is fused (joined together as a whole) to the sacrum in varying degrees. Most physicians believe that this in itself will not cause pain but it may be a point and can cause more pain when the area sustains and injury.
"There are four lumbar type vertebrae with sacralization of L5 . The disc are all well maintained. The neural arches are intact." This is all normal other than they are noting that there is a sacralization of L5. L5 is the 5th lumbar vertebrae. According to your post the x-ray does on to say, "The facet joints show minor degenerative changes at l5/s1). " That means there is some degeneration (minor aging type changes) of the facet joints of the L5 and the S1. The S1 is the 1st sacral vertebrae.
Anatomy of facet joints: Nearly every flexible or movable level of the spine (with the exception of the very top vertebra) is comprised of the same elements, including:
Vertebral body, the bony building blocks of the spine
Facet joint, small stabilizing joints located between and behind adjacent vertebrae
Intervertebral disc, which provides a cushion between each of the vertebral bodies and binds them together
So your test says that the facet joints, small stabilizing joints between and behind the vertebrae are showing some old fashion wear and tear, possibly a little inflammation and they call this degeneration. Usually degeneration is seen in older adults but sometimes it can show up at your age.
I hope this has made your test and my comments more understandable. I'm sorry if I was no more clear earlier. If you have additional questions please feel free to ask. I am here as are others to try to help you. Take Care, Tuck
Hi, my name is Marcy, I too have spinal degenerative issues with extensive medical background and I agree "Tuckamore" is very knowledgeable but I think there is a language issue at hand. I may be butting in but my advice is that where ever you live, you need to learn to be your own health advocate. In other words, fight and demand answers; keep records, request documents and tests results and take them with you everywhere. My issues started with 3 herniated cervical disks and have taken me to the lumbar issues such as herniated L2/3 and L5/S1 along with multiple hemangianomas on the lumbar verebrae. I was very frustrated with the run-around I was getting and knew I needed someone to listen to me so I became a "squeeky wheel". I haven't read your profile yet but as Tuck mentioned you are from another country so I hope you understand this. Keep searching and asking questions, the internet is invaluable and good luck. PS...I finally get to see my spine sureon again (this time not work comp) tomorrow to deal with lumbar issues. I work in the surgery dept. at a local hosp. and have the luck to have ortho doc's at my disposal. What a Godsend!
Hi just I want from you to explain again for me what do you mean about what you said before?(Harvard Medical School has this to say about Sacralization:
Begin Quote "Sacralization refers to a connection between the sacrum, the large bone just beneath the spine, and the lowest lumbar vertebra, a bone just above the sacrum in the low back. This connection is usually congenital, meaning that it has been present since birth; other, rarer causes include prior injury or surgery. According to some studies, 5 to 10 percent of the population has some form of sacralization.
While sacralization of the lower lumbar vertebra was once thought to cause arthritis, back pain, and abnormal alignment of the spinal bones, more recent (and higher quality) studies show no clear link between sacralization and back problems. Most of the time, it is a "normal variant," an incidental finding on an X-ray with no impact on symptoms or overall health. The finding of sacralization on an X-ray is a good example of a common dilemma: Even when an "abnormal" finding is discovered on an imaging test, it may provide little information that is actually useful or relevant." End Quote
The additional research I preformed indicated that often this condition exists at birth, actually can be seen invitro. Some ppl experience pain but most do not until an injury or another condition effects the spine.
I have Facet disease. It cause pain in varying degrees from mild to severe depending on activity and the severity of the disease.
So in answer to your question the lifting in all probability aggrivated a preexisting condition. It should still be covered by workers compensation. I checked your profile page and you are very young to be experiencing such back pain. I recommend that you see an orthopedist for evaluation and/or treatment. )
So why I feel pain in my lower back and it's very hurt it's look like my back 2 pieces what I meant is the x-ray show(There are four lumbar type vertebrea with sacralization of l5. The disc are all well maintained.The neural arches are intact. The facet joints show minor degenerative changes at l5/s1) and I WANT TO SAID SORRY BEFORE I START TO ASK YOU BECAUSE IAM A BIT CONFUISE NOW:you said more recent (and higher quality) studies show no clear link between sacralization and back problems SO LOOK WHAT I DID UNDERSTAND NOW MY BACK IS IN PAIN RIGHT AND THE X-RAY SHOW WHAT I TOLD YOU SHOW SO WHAT IS THAT MEAN?.
SORRY AGAIN IF IAM BOTHERING YOU WITH MY QUESTIONS.
Thank you
Begin Quote "Sacralization refers to a connection between the sacrum, the large bone just beneath the spine, and the lowest lumbar vertebra, a bone just above the sacrum in the low back. This connection is usually congenital, meaning that it has been present since birth; other, rarer causes include prior injury or surgery. According to some studies, 5 to 10 percent of the population has some form of sacralization.
While sacralization of the lower lumbar vertebra was once thought to cause arthritis, back pain, and abnormal alignment of the spinal bones, more recent (and higher quality) studies show no clear link between sacralization and back problems. Most of the time, it is a "normal variant," an incidental finding on an X-ray with no impact on symptoms or overall health. The finding of sacralization on an X-ray is a good example of a common dilemma: Even when an "abnormal" finding is discovered on an imaging test, it may provide little information that is actually useful or relevant." End Quote
The additional research I preformed indicated that often this condition exists at birth, actually can be seen invitro. Some ppl experience pain but most do not until an injury or another condition effects the spine.
I have Facet disease. It cause pain in varying degrees from mild to severe depending on activity and the severity of the disease.
So in answer to your question the lifting in all probability aggrivated a preexisting condition. It should still be covered by workers compensation. I checked your profile page and you are very young to be experiencing such back pain. I recommend that you see an orthopedist for evaluation and/or treatment. )
So why I feel pain in my lower back and it's very hurt it's look like my back 2 pieces what I meant is the x-ray show(There are four lumbar type vertebrea with sacralization of l5. The disc are all well maintained.The neural arches are intact. The facet joints show minor degenerative changes at l5/s1) and I WANT TO SAID SORRY BEFORE I START TO ASK YOU BECAUSE IAM A BIT CONFUISE NOW:you said more recent (and higher quality) studies show no clear link between sacralization and back problems SO LOOK WHAT I DID UNDERSTAND NOW MY BACK IS IN PAIN RIGHT AND THE X-RAY SHOW WHAT I TOLD YOU SHOW SO WHAT IS THAT MEAN?.
SORRY AGAIN IF IAM BOTHERING YOU WITH MY QUESTIONS.
Thank you
Sali,
I just saw that you are not living in the US. I do not know the Workers Comp laws in your country. If you lived in the USA than in my opinion you would be entitled to WC. I have sent you a PM. I hope you are soon feeling better.
Good Luck to you. Tuck
I just saw that you are not living in the US. I do not know the Workers Comp laws in your country. If you lived in the USA than in my opinion you would be entitled to WC. I have sent you a PM. I hope you are soon feeling better.
Good Luck to you. Tuck
Sorry, are you asking if I think you can do all the treatments order by your physician or order by WC (workers comp)? Tuck
Hi Sali,
If am glad to hear that she does not work for the WC. She has no reason to be anything but loyal to you and do what she feels will help you.
PT or exercise is painful. And often we have to work through the pain in order to properly treat the pain. In all probability she is trying to strengthen your back muscles and the surrounding structures that support the spine. I would do the exercise as she as ordered. If you have pain medication take it an hour prior to the exercise. Following the exercise a warm bath will help ease any spasms and relax the muscles.
Mild degeneration of the facet joints can be termed facet disease, one of the conditions that I suffer from or with however you want it should be said. Indeed that cause pain and aching and often it hurts to bend. I suspect this is part of your pain along with a back sprain or strain, that is my best guess. If after three weeks you have no improvement or you develop other symptoms or your pain is significantly worse I would seek another opinion. Remember it will hurt more when first begin exercising. You are trying to condition injured muscles and attachments.
I am not a physician, just a person with some medical background and a lot of life experience. I may not be correct. You should always do what you think is best for you. Listen to your body. Again please let us know how you are doing. We are here to offer support and suggestions. Good luck and take care, Tuck
If am glad to hear that she does not work for the WC. She has no reason to be anything but loyal to you and do what she feels will help you.
PT or exercise is painful. And often we have to work through the pain in order to properly treat the pain. In all probability she is trying to strengthen your back muscles and the surrounding structures that support the spine. I would do the exercise as she as ordered. If you have pain medication take it an hour prior to the exercise. Following the exercise a warm bath will help ease any spasms and relax the muscles.
Mild degeneration of the facet joints can be termed facet disease, one of the conditions that I suffer from or with however you want it should be said. Indeed that cause pain and aching and often it hurts to bend. I suspect this is part of your pain along with a back sprain or strain, that is my best guess. If after three weeks you have no improvement or you develop other symptoms or your pain is significantly worse I would seek another opinion. Remember it will hurt more when first begin exercising. You are trying to condition injured muscles and attachments.
I am not a physician, just a person with some medical background and a lot of life experience. I may not be correct. You should always do what you think is best for you. Listen to your body. Again please let us know how you are doing. We are here to offer support and suggestions. Good luck and take care, Tuck
No she is not work for the worke compensation.
She want from me to do a lower back excercise I know this very hurt every time I do that exsercise but what should I do listen to here or what IAM very confuse from her.
No this pain wasn't before I didn't felt in pain before I worked with children's Iam so tired my back very hurt I can't sleep propely I can't even work in my own home and I can't stand for longe so should I do?
Do you thimk should I go to see other doctor?.
Thank you very much for your help.
She want from me to do a lower back excercise I know this very hurt every time I do that exsercise but what should I do listen to here or what IAM very confuse from her.
No this pain wasn't before I didn't felt in pain before I worked with children's Iam so tired my back very hurt I can't sleep propely I can't even work in my own home and I can't stand for longe so should I do?
Do you thimk should I go to see other doctor?.
Thank you very much for your help.
No she is not work for the worke compensation.
She want from me to do a lower back excercise I know this very hurt every time I do that exsercise but what should I do listen to here or what IAM very confuse from her.
No this pain wasn't before I didn't felt in pain before I worked with children's Iam so tired my back very hurt I can't sleep propely I can't even work in my own home and I can't stand for longe so should I do?
Do you thimk should I go to see other doctor?.
Thank you very much for your help.
She want from me to do a lower back excercise I know this very hurt every time I do that exsercise but what should I do listen to here or what IAM very confuse from her.
No this pain wasn't before I didn't felt in pain before I worked with children's Iam so tired my back very hurt I can't sleep propely I can't even work in my own home and I can't stand for longe so should I do?
Do you thimk should I go to see other doctor?.
Thank you very much for your help.
If I understand what you said your doctor said this pain is NOT from lifting children???? Does this physician work for the Workers Compensation Carrier?
My last career was that of a Corporate HR Director and with my meidcal background this is my humble opinion. I have not seen your medical records but I cannot imagine why if this all began with the lifting and pulling of chidren that this is not related to that action. Again it apparently is a pre-exsisting condition but the action of the children aggrivated the condition. Unless you had pain before and have been recently been treated for the condition this is from the action of the children.
I do not understand exactly what you mean. Your physician wants you to do excercise and a what? Excersice cannot hurt if done under the supervision of a Physical Therapist. How is your pain? Please keep us posted. Take care, Tuck
My last career was that of a Corporate HR Director and with my meidcal background this is my humble opinion. I have not seen your medical records but I cannot imagine why if this all began with the lifting and pulling of chidren that this is not related to that action. Again it apparently is a pre-exsisting condition but the action of the children aggrivated the condition. Unless you had pain before and have been recently been treated for the condition this is from the action of the children.
I do not understand exactly what you mean. Your physician wants you to do excercise and a what? Excersice cannot hurt if done under the supervision of a Physical Therapist. How is your pain? Please keep us posted. Take care, Tuck
Hi just I want to tell you what happen with me I went to the doctor and the doctor said all this think and my back pain not from liffting children and she want me to do exsercice and to take a voltarine so what do you think about what she said?
Thanks
Thanks
Hi Again Sali,
This is only my opinion but I think you should see an orthopedist. I can answer in more detail later today but I have something else that requires my attention right now.
Chat later, Tuck
This is only my opinion but I think you should see an orthopedist. I can answer in more detail later today but I have something else that requires my attention right now.
Chat later, Tuck
Hello and welcom to Med Help;
Tuckamore did a nice job in answering your question and i will add that..Yes, lifting children can damage your back especially if you had previous problems that you were not aware of.
It sounds like you have had some Degeneration going on previous to your initial injury and
I'm not sure that there is much that the Doctor can do except make you comfortable with a good pain regiment.
Take care and good luck in the future,
Mollyrae
There are some good muscle relaxers out there along with an
Hello Sali,
Welcome to the Pain Management Forum of MedHelp. I am glad you found us. I am sorry to hear about your back pain. Many of us can relate.
Harvard Medical School has this to say about Sacralization:
Begin Quote "Sacralization refers to a connection between the sacrum, the large bone just beneath the spine, and the lowest lumbar vertebra, a bone just above the sacrum in the low back. This connection is usually congenital, meaning that it has been present since birth; other, rarer causes include prior injury or surgery. According to some studies, 5 to 10 percent of the population has some form of sacralization.
While sacralization of the lower lumbar vertebra was once thought to cause arthritis, back pain, and abnormal alignment of the spinal bones, more recent (and higher quality) studies show no clear link between sacralization and back problems. Most of the time, it is a "normal variant," an incidental finding on an X-ray with no impact on symptoms or overall health. The finding of sacralization on an X-ray is a good example of a common dilemma: Even when an "abnormal" finding is discovered on an imaging test, it may provide little information that is actually useful or relevant." End Quote
The additional research I preformed indicated that often this condition exists at birth, actually can be seen invitro. Some ppl experience pain but most do not until an injury or another condition effects the spine.
I have Facet disease. It cause pain in varying degrees from mild to severe depending on activity and the severity of the disease.
So in answer to your question the lifting in all probability aggrivated a preexisting condition. It should still be covered by workers compensation. I checked your profile page and you are very young to be experiencing such back pain. I recommend that you see an orthopedist for evaluation and/or treatment.
Best of luck to you.Please let us know how you are doing and take care, Tuck
Welcome to the Pain Management Forum of MedHelp. I am glad you found us. I am sorry to hear about your back pain. Many of us can relate.
Harvard Medical School has this to say about Sacralization:
Begin Quote "Sacralization refers to a connection between the sacrum, the large bone just beneath the spine, and the lowest lumbar vertebra, a bone just above the sacrum in the low back. This connection is usually congenital, meaning that it has been present since birth; other, rarer causes include prior injury or surgery. According to some studies, 5 to 10 percent of the population has some form of sacralization.
While sacralization of the lower lumbar vertebra was once thought to cause arthritis, back pain, and abnormal alignment of the spinal bones, more recent (and higher quality) studies show no clear link between sacralization and back problems. Most of the time, it is a "normal variant," an incidental finding on an X-ray with no impact on symptoms or overall health. The finding of sacralization on an X-ray is a good example of a common dilemma: Even when an "abnormal" finding is discovered on an imaging test, it may provide little information that is actually useful or relevant." End Quote
The additional research I preformed indicated that often this condition exists at birth, actually can be seen invitro. Some ppl experience pain but most do not until an injury or another condition effects the spine.
I have Facet disease. It cause pain in varying degrees from mild to severe depending on activity and the severity of the disease.
So in answer to your question the lifting in all probability aggrivated a preexisting condition. It should still be covered by workers compensation. I checked your profile page and you are very young to be experiencing such back pain. I recommend that you see an orthopedist for evaluation and/or treatment.
Best of luck to you.Please let us know how you are doing and take care, Tuck
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Pain Management Community
Find out how beta-blocker eye drops show promising results for acute migraine relief.
Could it be something you ate? Lack of sleep? Here are 11 migraine triggers to look out for.
Find out if PRP therapy right for you.
Tips for preventing one of the most common types of knee injury.
Here are 10 ways to stop headaches before they start.
Tips and moves to ease backaches
