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Can we all agree to identify PATM as a subset of TMAU?

More often than not, the condition we call "PATM" has a remarkable resemblance to TMAU. The only distinct difference between PATM sufferers and TMAU sufferers is the intensity of body odour. TMAU sufferers present a stench far greater than PATM sufferers,  but instead, however minimal our body odour is (or think it is),  we still manage to affect other people the same way TMAU sufferers affect others(coughing,sneezeing,etc).So therefore i think that the diagnostic procedures and tools used to identify a TMAU sufferer should also apply to PATM sufferers as well, and whatever treatment or cure that arises from the TMAU community should be noted as treatment or cure that applies to the PATM community as well.
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Avatar universal
It is plausible..however I don't think that PATM is affiliated with TMAU. Some might have a mix of it. I think PATM like I stated on another topic is in relation to Yeast or a yeast type of infection. I spoke with a few people who suffer from TMAU and they both told me in their own experiences they never got coughing, sneezing or type PATM substances of a reaction. Usually its just the holding of the nose or someone complaining it smells.

From my experience I hear a lot of complain mostly their allergies are acting up..they have to sneeze, clear their throat, etc. My best friend every time I speak to him via the phone or in person. He clears his throat among others..and I ask him what's wrong or if he can smell anything. He says he cannot detect any odor at all from anyone around us not even me but he feels like he has dust balls down his throat he has to cough out.

So I guess it just depends on the person or what they are suffering from. But TMAU and PATM go hand and hand..they both isolate those who suffer from it from every day life.
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Avatar universal
There seems to be several subtypes of PATM.  I have a diagnosis of TMAU and I definitely have an odor along with my PATM.  However, there are some that claim there is no odor but it appears to me that these are more the people who have Morgellons-type of symptoms e.g. fibers and dust (which I don't have).  Also, there are those of us who have observed unusual electrical phenomena (myself included).  So, I would say my subtype is TMAU/Electrical, but there are other subtypes as well.

The FMO3 liver enzyme that breaks down the smelly compound that causes odor for TMAU sufferers breaks down many compounds and has not been well studied from what I can tell.  I truly believe there are other compounds, particularly sulfur, which are not be metabolized in people with FMO3 liver enzyme deficiencies (myself included).  Thus the range of smells.  Science only recognizes TMAU, but there are other TMAU-like metabolic disorders that have not been studied.  Until a researcher in this field actually comes down with PATM and tries to figure out what is making his/her life a living hell, not much will be done I'm afraid.

It definitely comes from the intestines, but also colonizes the skin and sinuses.  It is most likely a combination of pathogens (which is why not many people have it...if it were only one pathogen more people would have it), probably bacterial and fungal in origin.  It is a very small particle, not easily observable in standard medical tests, along the lines of a mycobacteria.
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5 Comments
"It", above, being the pathogens that impair the functioning of the FMO3 enzyme.
This is a very good analysis. With my PATM, it definitely seems like I'm emitting some type of an odor. It isn't all the time, and it seems like not everyone can smell it or is bothered by it. Other times, simply thinking about PATM can cause reactions, even across a huge room/lecture hall; I know for a fact that they can't smell me. This seems more to be the morgellans/psychological type of PATM.
Yes I agree from reading in the forum, I can definitely find some symptoms that other people have that I don't have. No one has every told me that I smell funny. There seems to be a range of symptoms. The gut flora is a very complex system of bacteria and every person has different populations. If there is something wrong with our gut flora that is shared by all PATM suffers, it shouldn't be impossible to find what this is.
Since I have the TMAU/Electrical type, I limit my discussion with friends/family to just the TMAU because the Electrical is too hard for anybody to grasp.  I tell myself that nobody a hundred years ago would have believed you could "throw" your voice over a telephone line either...at some point in the future this part of it will be understood, but in the meantime best not to look psychotic talking about it
I've had this for a long time and I've tried to be as objective as possible in examining the causes of this "disease." I try to be optimistic and focus on restoring my gut bacteria. Certainty, being healthy seems like it helps. Sometimes though, when everyone around me reacts for seemingly no reason, I'm worried that what we have something similar to Morgellons. It almost seems like our psychological condition is manifesting itself in the physical reality. Yes, it sounds crazy, but I'm sure you guys can relate in one way or another. I'm not completely sure what you guys mean by "electrical,"  but I do know that whatever this is seems be outside of what science currently knows. In some capacity, it seems like are bodies amplify our current state of well being. If you are nervous or stressed, or just ate a really unhealthy meal, people can sense that something in our bodies in "off." I don't want to distract from the more productive and rational discussion about digestion and gut health - perhaps I've been reading too much into this within the past couple of days. I just feel like I need some place to catalog my thoughts.
Avatar universal
Agreed it feels like almost an invisible odor, even one that maybe a few can smell.
Helpful - 1
Avatar universal
To date, no diagnostic method and analysis, confirming that this PATM disease.

There is a main visual sign that it is a disease PATM – people react next to a man: coughing, sneezing, itch, sniff, spit, hawk, nervous, smoking. After contact, these people can start to hurt. Especially after prolonged contact.

But the main problem of this visual symptom, the inability to reasonably prove to yourself and others that there is some kind of disease, which react to the surrounding people. Why it is impossible to prove to yourself and others? Here are the main reasons:

1. No diagnostic analysis, confirming that this PATM;

2. Not all people react the neighborhood (all people have their own degree of sensitivity, a lot of people need some time that they have felt something: by day, week, month, year);

3. Someone responds, but unstable;

4. Even if someone reacts constantly, thinks he has some kind of disease. Does not believe that he begins with the reaction of a sick PATM. And in his own way he's right. People with certain diseases respond to patients PATM in the first place. Perhaps patients begin to respond, and a healthy feel nothing;

5. If someone begins to suspect that his reaction starts at a specific person with PATM, then nothing can show to officially. Because there is a stereotype that a person can only cough from the cough. And then, the patient PATM today can prove she's not ill, referring to item №1 (see above). Ha-ha:)

Seriously, that PATM was officially recognized, it is necessary to find diagnostic analysis.
And suddenly PATM and TMAU – one disease or the analogs?

Has TMAU the same reactions of other people, as in PATM?

Has anyone done any tests for TMAU? I have not found in Russian Internet, where it can get tested for TMAU in Russia.

It seems there are sites in other countries with announcements about the tests TMAU. But I don't know English, can't call and ask how much for this analysis. And I have no money to get there.

Here's another two branches on TMAU:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Allergy/bad-body-odor--anyone---help/show/4254

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/People-Allergic-to-Me-PATM/TMAU-and-PATM/show/2434469

But I have not found either here or on the Internet, who would do the analysis TMAU. This analysis TMAU – a myth?


На сегодняшний день нет диагностического метода, анализа, подтверждающего, что это болезнь PATM.
Есть основной визуальный признак, что это болезнь PATM – люди начинают реагировать рядом с человеком: кашлять, чихать, чесаться, шмыгать носом, сопеть, отплевываться, отхаркиваться, нервничать, курить. После контакта эти люди могут начинать болеть. Особенно после продолжительного контакта.
Но основная проблема данного визуального признака – невозможность обоснованно доказать себе и другим, что есть какое-то заболевание, из-за которого реагируют окружающие люди. Почему невозможно доказать себе и другим? Вот основные причины:
1. Нет диагностического анализа, подтверждающего, что это PATM;
2. Не все люди рядом реагируют (у всех людей своя степень чувствительности, многим людям нужно определенное время, чтобы они почувствовали что-то не то: день, неделя, месяц, год);
3. Кто-то реагирует, но непостоянно;
4. Если даже кто-то реагирует постоянно, то думает, что у него какое-то заболевание. Не верит, что у него начинается реакция из-за больного PATM. И по-своему он прав. Люди с определенными заболеваниями реагируют на больных PATM в первую очередь. Возможно, именно больные начинают реагировать, а здоровые ничего не чувствуют;
5. Если же кто-то и начинает подозревать, что у него начинается реакция на определенного человека c PATM, то ничего не может предъявить официально. Потому что есть стереотип, что человек может кашлять только от того человека, который сам кашляет. И потом, сам больной PATM сегодня может доказать, что не болен, сославшись на пункт №1 (смотри выше). Ха-ха
Если же серьезно, то чтобы PATM был официально признан и распознаваем, необходимо найти диагностический анализ.
А вдруг PATM и TMAU – одна болезнь или аналоги?
При TMAU есть такие же реакции окружающих людей, как при PATM?
Кто-нибудь делал анализы на TMAU? Я не нашел в русскоязычном интернете, где можно сдать анализы на TMAU в России.
Вроде бы есть сайты в других странах с объявлениями об анализах TMAU. Но я не знаю английский язык, не могу позвонить и спросить, сколько стоит данный анализ. И у меня нет денег, чтобы приехать туда.
Вот еще две ветви о TMAU:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Allergy/bad-body-odor--anyone---help/show/4254
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/People-Allergic-to-Me-PATM/TMAU-and-PATM/show/2434469
Но я не нашел ни здесь, ни в интернете, кто делал бы анализ TMAU. Этот анализ TMAU – миф?
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Avatar universal
Welcome to the forum fogell. Interesting things you mentioned there. I'm glad youre still going out for example like you mentioned to the library regardless of patm. This patm is a life destroyer and really changes the way we forever look at things. Relaxing Is key. You don't want to be left feeling uncomfortable all the time. Trust yourself with yourself.
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1 Comments
Yes I try to not let this control me, but it is not easy. Thanks for the advise and kind words.
Avatar universal
It might be dangerous to make these kind of connections, but it is an interesting theory. Read the Wikipedia article on TMAU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylaminuria

It says that TMAU is the result of a mutation in the FMO3-gene. It also states that there are different levels of mutation, that is the FMO3-enzyme produced by the FMO3-gene might be no functional causing full TMAU, or the "activity might be reduced", the article says. So the conclusion is not far fetched that this reduced activity is what causes our symptoms. It also says for TMAU the symptoms are triggered depending on stress an diet. Which could also explain the fact that diet seems to help some people here in the forum. And also from my own experience, if I'm thinking about PATM I naturally get stressed and I see the change in the people around me, and when I can relax (at home) people are not as affected.

PS.: This is my first post, I was so happy to find this forum, I have been living with this **** for more than a couple of years, and I always put it of as a physiological problem, like there was something wrong with me that makes people uncomfortable around me, and it has been hell at times. Right now I'm sitting in the library and people are coughing up, this **** *****! After reading many of the posts here I'm almost convinced, that this is a medical issue, and this theory seems worth exploring. I'm going to do further research and I might even try a diet that is recommended for TMAU patients (if there is such a thing), to see if it help.
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Avatar universal
A lot of us have odor , me included. Lots think they dont have odor. As someone who deals with odor a very long time i am sure 95% of the time family and friends will not admit your odor? Very rare for famiky to admit odor unless tgey dislike you
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