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My views: The cause of PATM
Following are my views. Let me know in the comments if you agree or not.
1. Reactions are because of irritant chemical gas released from body. The irritant gas is produced in gut. Then it goes to mouth, poop and urine, also goes to sweat through blood. This is why underpants have the same irritant gas smell.
2. Reactions by people: sneezing, coughing, clearing throat, headache, dizziness, unnatural hunger feeling, upset stomach, watery eyes, etc.
The reason patient has less reactions beacuse they are used to it being exposed 24/7 so body learns to ignore it.
But Patients feel: Headache, lack of concentration, insomnia, watery eyes, weird taste in mouth, sometimes blood in nostrils, etc.
These all are because of inhaling that irritant gas.
3. Possible cause: Corrupt metabolism which fails to breakdown toxic irritant chemical. The gas is Toluene, xylene, as per research in Japan.
4. Treatment: Fully understand mechanism of the irritant gas release and figure out ways to breakdown them into non irritant gases.
Extensive research is needed to figure out the actual treatment.
Until full research, Just hit and trial can be done.
Hopefully, enough funds are raised for the research. If I became millionaire in some day in my life I will definitely run a research by experts.
I think that many people are having paranoia and considering it as energy, wave, spiritual, electromagnetic radiation, transmission through cellphone, etc. And that's natural too because until you have an answer you are think of anything.
Keep Hope.
Let me know what are your views on this.
Best Answer
I agree with a lot of what you said but i think some things could be debated. I am actually questioning where patm is produced because i thought that it had to do with sebum but im questioning that because no matter what i do it always seems to come from my gut. I think the symptoms that patmers feel is purely psychological and not related to patm unless its something like a runny nose, headaches, or a weird taste in your mouth, etc. In order to treat patm i think we have to get someone to find a cure that is able to breakdown that chemical that we cant breakdown but i am not waiting years just for someone to come along and do something about it so ill try to get rid of patm myself. I think that patm is related to sebum because whenever i had more sebum i had more patm and so i think that its the key to getting rid of it, i think that the thing i have to do is to get rid of all the sebum on my body then clean out my body of any patm. I dont know if this applies to anyone besides me but my spit isnt clear and its kind of white so i think that my spit is probably mixed with patm and i have to get rid of that somehow and my best guess is to use an acidic liquid and lots of water but it seems really inefficient. I think its important that you brought up how the desperation of not knowing understanding patm leads people to believe things that go against logic and i like how you said that its normal because it definitely is. Im glad theres someone who agrees with me because i was thinking that i was the only person who thought like this is there anyway i can contact you so we can talk more about patm?
5 Comments
I personally do not think it as a sebum, skin issue, candida issues.
I don't think it as a skin(sebum) issue. Our skin naturally contains trillions of non harmful bacteria and fungus. If there was any harmful bacteria that would definitely affect skin like redness, itching, burning, etc. And clearly the smell comes from poop, pee, mouth, etc. not skin.
I don't think it as a candida issue. Because candida produces carbon dioxide, which we naturally pass while exhaling. Also, Candida cause bloating, I don't have one. Also, candida too is also naturally found in our gut.
I don't think it is a mold or fungus, because exposing to mold or fungus for years would kill a person. I am curious if anyone tested positive for mold?
Not sure if mold and fungus are able to release such irritant chemicals.
What I am sure of:
-It is an irritant gas being released from the body.
- when people inhale it, it goes to people's lungs and causes them to cough, just like smoke. It goes to throat and creates inflammation, then throat produces extra mucus making people clear their throat.
The gas causes watery eyes just like smoke.
- Basically, if you think, all symtoms person experience when exposed to smoke.
Headache, watery eyes, cough, shortness of breath, etc.
- The white spit is because the irritant gas comes to mouth from gut, mixes with saliva to make it white.
Whay I am unsure of:
- What irritant gas/chemical is it?
- Why it is produced?
- Is it metabolic malfunction?
- Is it genetic?
- What triggers it?
- What's the treatment?
- Why doctors have no explanation?
I don't think it as a skin(sebum) issue. Our skin naturally contains trillions of non harmful bacteria and fungus. If there was any harmful bacteria that would definitely affect skin like redness, itching, burning, etc. And clearly the smell comes from poop, pee, mouth, etc. not skin.
I don't think it as a candida issue. Because candida produces carbon dioxide, which we naturally pass while exhaling. Also, Candida cause bloating, I don't have one. Also, candida too is also naturally found in our gut.
I don't think it is a mold or fungus, because exposing to mold or fungus for years would kill a person. I am curious if anyone tested positive for mold?
Not sure if mold and fungus are able to release such irritant chemicals.
What I am sure of:
-It is an irritant gas being released from the body.
- when people inhale it, it goes to people's lungs and causes them to cough, just like smoke. It goes to throat and creates inflammation, then throat produces extra mucus making people clear their throat.
The gas causes watery eyes just like smoke.
- Basically, if you think, all symtoms person experience when exposed to smoke.
Headache, watery eyes, cough, shortness of breath, etc.
- The white spit is because the irritant gas comes to mouth from gut, mixes with saliva to make it white.
Whay I am unsure of:
- What irritant gas/chemical is it?
- Why it is produced?
- Is it metabolic malfunction?
- Is it genetic?
- What triggers it?
- What's the treatment?
- Why doctors have no explanation?
The issue is that it is not known, it could be, but nothing. Unfortunately we are still there, and we will continue. The truth is that when I leave my dirty clothes nobody reacts, the reaction is only when I am in the place or close. It is an inexplicable thing, suppose we exhale through the breath, it makes no sense when it goes far and the element on the way does not change its composition or just reaches that person even when the wind is against it, that is why it is complex. I also lived for a time on the 2nd floor, it affected the one below where he least imagined when the wind blew to the contrary. For it to affect to such a degree we would have to be as a sample in decomposition. On the other hand, as a real mental patient, I also asked the doctors about the consequences of mold and black fungus, the doctors' response was that if I had mold on my body, it would manifest itself until it reached the surface of the skin, infecting everything inside of us. body, we would die in a few years ..... I really do not understand PATM, another hypothesis is what you say, I tried to prove it by leaving my dirty clothes, I even stayed with a shorts and a t-shirt for almost 3 weeks to prove that theory, many Sometimes, nothing, it's only when you're there, well, at least in my case.
Did you get any blood work done to rule that out it is not fungus?
If you don't believe it is coming out of your breath. Blow air to someone's nose 3-4 times they will probably sneeze.
This irritant chemicals also expelled through sweat which is absorbed by cloths. This is why after showering and changing clothes, people see less reactions. But eventually the gas builds up because of breath and sweat.
If you don't believe cloths trap this irritant chemicals smell your under pants and your bedsheets.
The gas coming out of breath and flatulence fills the room or surrounding which makes people react.
The gas defuses so fast and reaches a long distance (although in small quantity). slight traces of this chemical is enough to make people react.
This irritant chemicals also expelled through sweat which is absorbed by cloths. This is why after showering and changing clothes, people see less reactions. But eventually the gas builds up because of breath and sweat.
If you don't believe cloths trap this irritant chemicals smell your under pants and your bedsheets.
The gas coming out of breath and flatulence fills the room or surrounding which makes people react.
The gas defuses so fast and reaches a long distance (although in small quantity). slight traces of this chemical is enough to make people react.
The doctor is correct no one can have mold or fungus inside for such a long time without having to be rushed to the emergency room. Or death. There is no way. Not even parasites in the intestines for this long.
Hello, I am a researcher in biomedical sciences. I have been studying PATM for about 5 years and based on the evidence I can conclude that the cause of PATM can be explained by two hypotheses: 1) the release of gases at levels above normal, which can provoke the immune system of the individual and other people around, activating numerous immunological barriers that justify the symptoms described. 2) Due to fungal infections of the mucous membranes (intestinal, gastric, and respiratory), this manifestation of fungi can cause the release of spores (a way of reproduction), in short, both the release of spores and the release of gases can cause physical immune responses, basically allergies.
31 Comments
Some of us has been dealing with this for more than ten, twenty years. There is no way mold is in our bodies for such a long time without killing us right? I’m sure we would have more symptoms. Sounds good but I don’t know.
In fact, there are several possibilities for microorganisms to parasitize our body, including viruses, fungi, bacteria or small parasites, some of which can cause initial symptoms similar to an acute flu and then settle in their final habitat, which is what we call chronic infection, which may or may not be symptomatic, examples: Endolimax nana (parasite that can live naturally in our body without developing an apparent pathology), Herpes virus (various viruses can live in a period called latency, where they stabilize for several years in the our body, without symptoms or with mild symptoms), Candida/Dermatophytes/Malassezia (fungi that can parasitize and become stable with human coexistence). Many people may have neglected infections because they have no obvious symptoms for science and no changes in serological tests, becoming undetectable for laboratory methods.
there are many diseases that live in our body, the difference is that these are not "altered" because our body is in its "normal" state, however PATMers are not "normal" if they emit certain types of chemical substances unusual". So, if we have mold, our body would have to undergo many changes apart from deteriorating beyond the mental over the years... Or not? It's still relative.
Yes, but people who manage to live with microorganisms that are not part of the natural microbiota without developing an obvious pathology do not necessarily mean that they do not have symptoms. In fact, many diseases neglected by science can produce some nonspecific and unknown symptoms, as in PATM. Regarding fungal infection, what I can say is that not every fungal infection is an internal mold, fungi can develop in countless ways in habitats conducive to this, such as in our respiratory and digestive systems. In the laboratory where I work (Brazil), I have already performed the diagnosis of some fungal diseases in nasal cavities that had been there for decades and the only apparent symptom was post-nasal secretion.
RavenCold, I really appreciate your research.
However, I have some queries.
Let's assume some unknown micro organism entered in body without causing any life threatening condition but only producing certain abnormal chemicals.
Then the following questions arises:
- How those organism entered body suddenly?( As we know some are affected in teenage and some in their 40s)
- Why only a few people are affected?
- Why isn't it transferred to another person?
- Why body doesn't remove the organisms?
-Is there any known organism that produce such chemicals like toluene, xylene, etc?
- Why good bacteria don't displace them?
However, I have some queries.
Let's assume some unknown micro organism entered in body without causing any life threatening condition but only producing certain abnormal chemicals.
Then the following questions arises:
- How those organism entered body suddenly?( As we know some are affected in teenage and some in their 40s)
- Why only a few people are affected?
- Why isn't it transferred to another person?
- Why body doesn't remove the organisms?
-Is there any known organism that produce such chemicals like toluene, xylene, etc?
- Why good bacteria don't displace them?
RavenCold, like TonyStark567 i appreciate what you are doing for the community but im curious if you have done any other type of research outside of looking for fungi? I personally think that patm can be linked back to a chemical not fungi so im wondering if you are planning on doing any tests related to identifying certain chemicals in our body. Im not a scientist but im pretty sure the best way to look for odd chemicals in patmers would be to compare the composition of a patmers and non-patmers saliva, urine, phlegm.
El tolueno, xileno, etcs. En general son producidos tambien a causa del estres ansiedad, por eso ese estudio del japones del 2014 no dice nada mas que aclarar eso....
Today in my region it was windy, but those winds were almost chaotic, however there was a guy about 20 meters away who coughed and cleared his throat, the wind above was traveling in another direction...... These are those kinds of examples that makes it inexplicable.....
TonyStark567, it's a pleasure to be able to help everyone in the community. I follow the forum for about 7 years, I even made some posts in the beginning and even in other forums that are no longer available today. Anyway, here are your questions:
1) and 2) We are in contact with external agents (microorganisms or allergens) all the time. At all times microorganisms are trying to invade our body, either through the skin (external), through the conjunctiva (eyes) or through the mucosa (mouth/nose). Our immune system is almost always able to detect this by generating reactions that will prevent this attempt to invade our body. Example: let's assume that a very common bacteria, called Staphylococcus aureus, tries to enter through the nasal passages (breathing), the first reaction of an organism can be: a runny nose, coughing, and sneezing, as these are our initial physical barriers against any type of agent invader, the release of secretion is an innate immune barrier to humans. But there will always be exceptions, that is, metabolic disorders that lead people to develop some infections. Another example: people with HIV have a depletion of certain types of lymphocytes (CDE4/CD8) which are briefly responsible for part of the immune response, so these people have a below-normal immune response and can develop infections more easily. Finally, this is just an example of a worldwide studied disease where we already know the delimited causes and symptoms, in the case of TMP it is necessary to detect the initial cause, therefore (in the hypothesis of fungal infection) we must think about which fungal species this is. lodged in the respiratory or digestive tracts of patients with TMP, not necessarily delimiting an age range for the infection, but only an initial contact with the infectious agent.
3) Not all diseases are transmissible, however, the fact that people with PATM activate the immune system of other individuals is proof that somehow patients with PATM release substances with very high immunogenicity since there is a unanimity of reaction. I have seen reports that these symptoms can be reduced with the use of oral antiallergic drugs (antihistamines).
4) Many microorganisms manage to bypass the immune system and live together naturally causing only local reactions. Example: Candida is a fungus that is part of our microbiota, that is, under natural conditions it lives and helps our metabolism, however in some metabolic imbalances Candida can cause an unwanted proliferation causing what we know as candidiasis (oral, nail, and vaginal, penile), the body may be able to treat it naturally but it may not be able to, requiring the use of antifungals to help the immune system to fight this infection. However, if the person is negligent, he can only choose palliative ways to deal with the infection, failing to reach a cure and getting used to living with the symptoms. There are people who have Candida in their nails (dark and brittle nails) their whole lives, the fact that they do not have severe symptoms makes these individuals neglect the disease.
5) About this question, it is a bit complex, but yes! Several microorganisms produce gases, some toxic others not, they are natural products of the digestive process. We even use it as a way to classify some species. Therefore, at first, I will ask that it be disregarded that gases such as benzene and xylene are produced by people with PATM since they are very common substances. Every day people are intoxicated by these substances, mainly workers in industrial regions. There are common toxicological tests done in the urine, to detect the levels of toluene and benzene, in addition, the symptoms of intoxication by these substances are very characteristic, therefore definitely PATM does not release these substances. Finally, considering the hypothesis that people with PATM release gases with an irritating action, without odor, we can consider that several microorganisms in their metabolic stages produce substances such as spores (reproduction), urea (metabolic products), methane, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, hydrogen (gases), hydrogen sulfide (highly toxic gas that can be released by some intestinal bacteria and which can be produced in abnormal amounts by people with intestinal dysbiosis, bacteria found in the mouth and gastrointestinal tract produce hydrogen sulfide from materials in decomposition that contains vegetable or animal proteins) and there is a long list of substances or gases that can be released by different species of microorganisms as well.
1) and 2) We are in contact with external agents (microorganisms or allergens) all the time. At all times microorganisms are trying to invade our body, either through the skin (external), through the conjunctiva (eyes) or through the mucosa (mouth/nose). Our immune system is almost always able to detect this by generating reactions that will prevent this attempt to invade our body. Example: let's assume that a very common bacteria, called Staphylococcus aureus, tries to enter through the nasal passages (breathing), the first reaction of an organism can be: a runny nose, coughing, and sneezing, as these are our initial physical barriers against any type of agent invader, the release of secretion is an innate immune barrier to humans. But there will always be exceptions, that is, metabolic disorders that lead people to develop some infections. Another example: people with HIV have a depletion of certain types of lymphocytes (CDE4/CD8) which are briefly responsible for part of the immune response, so these people have a below-normal immune response and can develop infections more easily. Finally, this is just an example of a worldwide studied disease where we already know the delimited causes and symptoms, in the case of TMP it is necessary to detect the initial cause, therefore (in the hypothesis of fungal infection) we must think about which fungal species this is. lodged in the respiratory or digestive tracts of patients with TMP, not necessarily delimiting an age range for the infection, but only an initial contact with the infectious agent.
3) Not all diseases are transmissible, however, the fact that people with PATM activate the immune system of other individuals is proof that somehow patients with PATM release substances with very high immunogenicity since there is a unanimity of reaction. I have seen reports that these symptoms can be reduced with the use of oral antiallergic drugs (antihistamines).
4) Many microorganisms manage to bypass the immune system and live together naturally causing only local reactions. Example: Candida is a fungus that is part of our microbiota, that is, under natural conditions it lives and helps our metabolism, however in some metabolic imbalances Candida can cause an unwanted proliferation causing what we know as candidiasis (oral, nail, and vaginal, penile), the body may be able to treat it naturally but it may not be able to, requiring the use of antifungals to help the immune system to fight this infection. However, if the person is negligent, he can only choose palliative ways to deal with the infection, failing to reach a cure and getting used to living with the symptoms. There are people who have Candida in their nails (dark and brittle nails) their whole lives, the fact that they do not have severe symptoms makes these individuals neglect the disease.
5) About this question, it is a bit complex, but yes! Several microorganisms produce gases, some toxic others not, they are natural products of the digestive process. We even use it as a way to classify some species. Therefore, at first, I will ask that it be disregarded that gases such as benzene and xylene are produced by people with PATM since they are very common substances. Every day people are intoxicated by these substances, mainly workers in industrial regions. There are common toxicological tests done in the urine, to detect the levels of toluene and benzene, in addition, the symptoms of intoxication by these substances are very characteristic, therefore definitely PATM does not release these substances. Finally, considering the hypothesis that people with PATM release gases with an irritating action, without odor, we can consider that several microorganisms in their metabolic stages produce substances such as spores (reproduction), urea (metabolic products), methane, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, hydrogen (gases), hydrogen sulfide (highly toxic gas that can be released by some intestinal bacteria and which can be produced in abnormal amounts by people with intestinal dysbiosis, bacteria found in the mouth and gastrointestinal tract produce hydrogen sulfide from materials in decomposition that contains vegetable or animal proteins) and there is a long list of substances or gases that can be released by different species of microorganisms as well.
Hi PatmHelper, about your question, yes I've done other research, I'm a Master of Science on the way to a Ph.D. Regarding PATM, I speak from my experience with neglected diseases, that the most common causes (hypotheses) are: possible infection, preferably fungal or a metabolic alteration, of genetic or biochemical origin, which leads to the release of gases, without odors but with irritating action.
Regarding laboratory tests, I can analyze the chemical composition of the saliva and urine of patients with TMP, but for that, I would need patients here in Brazil, in São Paulo. Despite this, I can recommend some laboratory tests if people are willing to have them, so they would look for diagnostic laboratories to perform their own tests.
Regarding laboratory tests, I can analyze the chemical composition of the saliva and urine of patients with TMP, but for that, I would need patients here in Brazil, in São Paulo. Despite this, I can recommend some laboratory tests if people are willing to have them, so they would look for diagnostic laboratories to perform their own tests.
Hi ocvq, how are you? Hope so. So, regarding the distance from the affected people, the most plausible explanation is that the release of gases/spores is spread through the air, even if the person is far away, their breathing is constant, that is, the release of substances occurs deliberately, and can reach distant places, even without the help of the wind, that is, when you observe a symptom in another person, you have already released irritating substances several times through nasal and body breathing, the symptoms are not instantaneous, however much they seem, it is the same reason that explains cases of people in closed places (cars, rooms) but who still observe the symptoms in other people.
Antihistamines has never worked for me
I was referring to the symptoms of those affected and not to the symptoms of PTM
Thus is probably the best explanation I have heard. What exactly is PTM?? I have experienced coughing and symptoms of allergies on the phone with everyone I’m speaking to. Can you please shed some light on this.?? Is this really possible?? I spoke to a girl from the rare connect forum for the first time last night. We have never met in person.She started to cough very badly. I brought this yo her attention. She then admitted that she gets the same reactions from other people who she is on the phone with. But she never associated it with this condition.
Ravelcold, I agree best way to diagnose PATM is to analyze chemicals in urine, saliva, and stool. Once the chemicals are known, then we can know which micro organisms produce such chemicals. Or at least the ways to neutralize those chemicals can be determined.
I wish you were here in the US, I would have visited you for the tests. Can you post in this forum regarding which test should be done to determine chemicals in urine, saliva, etc. and place to do the tests.
I thik most people will agree to have the test done.
Who knows may be we are just one step away from diagnosis.
I wish you were here in the US, I would have visited you for the tests. Can you post in this forum regarding which test should be done to determine chemicals in urine, saliva, etc. and place to do the tests.
I thik most people will agree to have the test done.
Who knows may be we are just one step away from diagnosis.
Hi Smellie67, PTM is the same as PATM, it was a google translator error. Your condition (transmission of symptoms via wifi/internet/calls) may be linked to another neglected disease and not necessarily TMP, as it is not a common symptom related to the other forum participants.
Hi TonyStark567, so about the lab tests? The indications I can make are personal, I will not be able to use them in research since I would need a certain number of participants, documentation, and numerous bureaucracies between institutions and countries. To make a correlation results from several patients would be required, using the same analytical scientific test, which makes the situation very complex to be done at a distance, by different people, different countries, and different laboratory methodologies. Another critical point is the amount spent, some exams have a high cost. Finally, let's go to the preliminary tests, which will make a general approach to the situation:
1) Simple urine test
2) Parasitological examination of feces
3) Complete blood count
4) Coagulogram (PT, APTT)
5) VHS
6) CRP - C-reactive protein
7) ASO - antistreptolysin O
8) ANA - antinuclear factor
9) Nasal secretion culture
10) Culture of oropharyngeal secretion
11) T3
12) T4
13) TSH
14) Alkaline Phosphatase
15) Acid Phosphatase
16) ALT
17) AST
18) Coproculture
19) Urine culture
20) Urea
21) Plasma uric acid
22) Lipase
23) Amylase
24) plasma creatinine
25) urinary creatinine
26) Plasma bicarbonate
27) urinary uric acid
28) Alpha-1-acid glycoprotein
29) Exhaled Hydrogen Breath Test
30) Analysis Biochemical Study of Trimethylamine in Urine
31) Phenylketonuria in the blood
32) Test of urinary organic acids
33) Metabolic Profile for Inborn Errors of Metabolism (IEM)
34) Molecular Study [FMO3 Gene]
35) Methylhippuric acid in urine
36) Hippuric acid to toluene in urine
37) Expanded genetic panel for inborn errors of immunity
1) Simple urine test
2) Parasitological examination of feces
3) Complete blood count
4) Coagulogram (PT, APTT)
5) VHS
6) CRP - C-reactive protein
7) ASO - antistreptolysin O
8) ANA - antinuclear factor
9) Nasal secretion culture
10) Culture of oropharyngeal secretion
11) T3
12) T4
13) TSH
14) Alkaline Phosphatase
15) Acid Phosphatase
16) ALT
17) AST
18) Coproculture
19) Urine culture
20) Urea
21) Plasma uric acid
22) Lipase
23) Amylase
24) plasma creatinine
25) urinary creatinine
26) Plasma bicarbonate
27) urinary uric acid
28) Alpha-1-acid glycoprotein
29) Exhaled Hydrogen Breath Test
30) Analysis Biochemical Study of Trimethylamine in Urine
31) Phenylketonuria in the blood
32) Test of urinary organic acids
33) Metabolic Profile for Inborn Errors of Metabolism (IEM)
34) Molecular Study [FMO3 Gene]
35) Methylhippuric acid in urine
36) Hippuric acid to toluene in urine
37) Expanded genetic panel for inborn errors of immunity
Raven cold I convinced a doctor to do a culture of this phlegm once. But because it’s not common from my lungs the sample was poor quality. The sample was basically the constant mucus that drains into my throat.
The results showed a rare rod something. I don’t remember exactly. But she would not investigate any farther. Also my amylase enzyme was elevated slightly. How can I get to you a copy of the results?
The results showed a rare rod something. I don’t remember exactly. But she would not investigate any farther. Also my amylase enzyme was elevated slightly. How can I get to you a copy of the results?
Happy New Year everybody, RavenCold thanks for all you are doing. I suffered PATM for many years and just recently I was able to be PATM free. Let me know if you want details as to how I managed to overcome it.
Here were my symptoms,
1. White tongue,
2. Bloating, flatulance,
3. Constipation,
3. People allergic to me when I spoke or when I entered an enclosed area.
4. People on opposite side of a telephone conversation coughing etc...( cell phones or Landlines) Sounds Crazy but true.
It would be nice to know what the root cause of all this is, maybe some king of virus or bacteria.
Thanks,
Here were my symptoms,
1. White tongue,
2. Bloating, flatulance,
3. Constipation,
3. People allergic to me when I spoke or when I entered an enclosed area.
4. People on opposite side of a telephone conversation coughing etc...( cell phones or Landlines) Sounds Crazy but true.
It would be nice to know what the root cause of all this is, maybe some king of virus or bacteria.
Thanks,
How were you able to go patm free?
Right sounds crazy but true no psychiatrist needed
It all begins in the gut.
Start by doing the following:
1. Eliminate sugar from your diet. (Almost everything has sugar so try to avoid artificial highly processed foods) Ex. cereals, bananas, yogurts, pastries, white rice, chocolate,
2. Eliminate all types of dairy from your diet. Ex. milk, cheese, spaghetti, ice cream, butter, fermented dairy products,
3. Eliminate all types of food made with flour or grains. Ex. bread, bagels, cakes, health bars, crackers, quinoa, popcorn, chips,
4. Eliminate all types of fast food or if you can, restaurant food also. ( They use and Re-use highly refined and toxic cooking oil)
5. Eliminate all types of refined cooking oil, this is very important in healing your gut. Ex. Vegetable oil, canola oil, grape seed oil, palm oil, peanut oil (Only use Olive Oil and or Avocado oil for cooking and make sure its authentic because manufacturers are mixing canola oil with olive oil and selling it as olive oil.
6. Eliminate all types of processed meats. Ex hot dogs, salami, bacon, canned meat, smoked meat, canned tuna,
7. All types of alcohol.
8. Smoking any kind of tobacco.
9. Reduce or eliminate sex. When you have sex, you use up a tremendous amount of energy along with vitamins and minerals.
9. ELIMINATE CONSTIPATION- This was a big one for me cause i suffered this health issue for many years which made PATM much worse. Food was fermenting/rotting in my large intestine which caused flatulence gas, You also dont want the transit time of food to fast. Normal time from small intestine to large intestine (Colon) to anus is about 30 to 40 hours. (Eating fiber will potentially alleviate this problem)
10. Rest including sleeping at least 8 hours day.
12. Eliminate all sodas/energy drinks of any kind.
13. Do not take antibiotics unless its absolutely necessary.
I know I can't cover all the foods that I eliminated from my diet but just make it a habit to read the labels of all the food that you might buy at the grocery stores. If the ingredients have words that you can't pronounce or are known carcinogens, run the other way. Just remember that in most grocery stores the center isles contain all the highly processed food and generally all foods on the perimeter of store are foods that are good for you.
Things that I did/eat to make me feel better but also eliminated my PATM.
1. FIBER, FIBER, FIBER Ex. vegetables like spinach, broccoli greens, onions, avocados, green apples, beans, nuts, peas, asparagus, artichokes, squash, green peas, cauliflower, ( Fiber/Greens are like
2. Meats/fish like chicken, salmon, beef,
3. Exercise including brisk walking for 15 minutes a day if nothing else.
4. Do not eat after 6pm. Fasting every so often will help with repair of the body organs.
5. Reduce stress. This was very hard for me but I managed my time in a more efficient way which helped tremendously.
6. Drink clean water.
Again, use common sense when consuming food.
My take on all this is that all health issues start in the gut. I believe I was suffering from leaky gut which is basically the lining found in the gut that has loose junctions which allows undigested food/viruses among other things to pass the blood/gut barrier. That can contribute to a host of symptoms including diarrhea, constipation, bloating, nutritional deficiencies, headaches, skin problems, joint pain, fatigue among other things.
The body starts to attack all these foreign invaders producing even more chronic inflammation in the body and weakening the immune system allowing even more foreign invaders to set up shop in the body. The body is in a chronic state of inflammation which to me makes sense as to why PATM cannot be eliminated from the body.
Having said all that, depending on your individual case, it could take years on a strict diet to overcome and eliminate/repair all the damage done by years of meds/highly processed food consumption.
Finally, Educate yourself so you can heal yourself so as to become better informed consumer.
Start by doing the following:
1. Eliminate sugar from your diet. (Almost everything has sugar so try to avoid artificial highly processed foods) Ex. cereals, bananas, yogurts, pastries, white rice, chocolate,
2. Eliminate all types of dairy from your diet. Ex. milk, cheese, spaghetti, ice cream, butter, fermented dairy products,
3. Eliminate all types of food made with flour or grains. Ex. bread, bagels, cakes, health bars, crackers, quinoa, popcorn, chips,
4. Eliminate all types of fast food or if you can, restaurant food also. ( They use and Re-use highly refined and toxic cooking oil)
5. Eliminate all types of refined cooking oil, this is very important in healing your gut. Ex. Vegetable oil, canola oil, grape seed oil, palm oil, peanut oil (Only use Olive Oil and or Avocado oil for cooking and make sure its authentic because manufacturers are mixing canola oil with olive oil and selling it as olive oil.
6. Eliminate all types of processed meats. Ex hot dogs, salami, bacon, canned meat, smoked meat, canned tuna,
7. All types of alcohol.
8. Smoking any kind of tobacco.
9. Reduce or eliminate sex. When you have sex, you use up a tremendous amount of energy along with vitamins and minerals.
9. ELIMINATE CONSTIPATION- This was a big one for me cause i suffered this health issue for many years which made PATM much worse. Food was fermenting/rotting in my large intestine which caused flatulence gas, You also dont want the transit time of food to fast. Normal time from small intestine to large intestine (Colon) to anus is about 30 to 40 hours. (Eating fiber will potentially alleviate this problem)
10. Rest including sleeping at least 8 hours day.
12. Eliminate all sodas/energy drinks of any kind.
13. Do not take antibiotics unless its absolutely necessary.
I know I can't cover all the foods that I eliminated from my diet but just make it a habit to read the labels of all the food that you might buy at the grocery stores. If the ingredients have words that you can't pronounce or are known carcinogens, run the other way. Just remember that in most grocery stores the center isles contain all the highly processed food and generally all foods on the perimeter of store are foods that are good for you.
Things that I did/eat to make me feel better but also eliminated my PATM.
1. FIBER, FIBER, FIBER Ex. vegetables like spinach, broccoli greens, onions, avocados, green apples, beans, nuts, peas, asparagus, artichokes, squash, green peas, cauliflower, ( Fiber/Greens are like
2. Meats/fish like chicken, salmon, beef,
3. Exercise including brisk walking for 15 minutes a day if nothing else.
4. Do not eat after 6pm. Fasting every so often will help with repair of the body organs.
5. Reduce stress. This was very hard for me but I managed my time in a more efficient way which helped tremendously.
6. Drink clean water.
Again, use common sense when consuming food.
My take on all this is that all health issues start in the gut. I believe I was suffering from leaky gut which is basically the lining found in the gut that has loose junctions which allows undigested food/viruses among other things to pass the blood/gut barrier. That can contribute to a host of symptoms including diarrhea, constipation, bloating, nutritional deficiencies, headaches, skin problems, joint pain, fatigue among other things.
The body starts to attack all these foreign invaders producing even more chronic inflammation in the body and weakening the immune system allowing even more foreign invaders to set up shop in the body. The body is in a chronic state of inflammation which to me makes sense as to why PATM cannot be eliminated from the body.
Having said all that, depending on your individual case, it could take years on a strict diet to overcome and eliminate/repair all the damage done by years of meds/highly processed food consumption.
Finally, Educate yourself so you can heal yourself so as to become better informed consumer.
Thanks Ray. Everyone should try to go by diet aproch. I think people can not sustain the restricted diet for long time and say diet has no effect. I recommended everyone to be in a restricted diet for 2-3 months and decide if there is a improvement. And I am too going to try that.
Raven Cold, most of the tests you mentioned, I already did it. Surprisingly everything was normal. However, I am not sure they looked at any abnormal chemicals present?
Also, the chemical gas is so volatile, it flies away so fast which makes it difficult to detect.
Is there any test that captures breath and tells which gases are present? And where can we do that tests? How do we convince doctor for the test. Without doctor aproval, insurance doesn't cover it, and without insurance it is too expensive.
Also, the chemical gas is so volatile, it flies away so fast which makes it difficult to detect.
Is there any test that captures breath and tells which gases are present? And where can we do that tests? How do we convince doctor for the test. Without doctor aproval, insurance doesn't cover it, and without insurance it is too expensive.
I understand that each person can seek healing in their own way, but I recommend everyone to be careful with exaggerated methodologies, without theoretical and scientific foundations. Stay focused.
TonyStark567, I understand many of you have had lab tests and the results have not detected anything, but this is the official approach. Any doctor or scientist will go through an essential list of tests, understanding is in the correlation of all results. As I said, tests are essential, in the list I recommended there are basic tests and some specific tests for gas and other metabolic products that can be released by breathing and skin, for example, Methylhippuric acid, and Hippuric acid to toluene in urine, are tests that will verify the hypothesis of some members about the possibility of having xylene, toluene or benzene in the body. Another very effective exam is the Exhaled Hydrogen Breath Test, which will check the levels of hydrogen release in the patient's breath. From that, it is possible to correlate with the presence of other gases such as methane, which produces toxic metabolites. In addition to these two tests, there are genetic tests that are currently the most advanced way to detect any anomaly or genetic dysfunction, such as the tests: Metabolic Profile for Inborn Errors of Metabolism (IEM) and Molecular Study [FMO3 Gene], is important emphasize that genetic alterations can be acquired or can lie dormant for years. Another important point about your doubts: even highly volatile gases can be detected in specific exams.
In some countries, laboratories do not require a medical claim for insurance to cover tests. As for the countries that require a medical request, I recommend that you describe the symptoms of TMAU to the doctor, as it is a very similar disease, you are not obliged to prove to the doctor that you have symptoms of TMAU at the time of the consultation, you can say that they feel some hours of the day and others not and after that politely ask the doctor to order the last tests that I have just described.
Hey RavenCold have you ever tried any of the tests you mentioned? and if you have then what were the results of the test?
I don't suffer from PATM and I don't know anyone in my city who does, just people here on the forum.
@RavenCold have you looked into Acetaldehyde being the mystery irritant gas? I have seen it mentioned in different forums. It is an irritant gas that is found is most foods that make patm worse. It is also produced by an overgrowth of Candida albicans which is usually directly correlated with antibiotic and steroid use. After which people usually begin patm symptoms. Curious to see what your opinion in on this matter. Could the liver and pancreas be damaged or a genetic malfunction cause certain people not to be able to process acetaldehyde?
I love your UN @killthecough
I agree with what you said except for being paranoid because people can smell it through the phone and outside of might as well as my car. At least 10-15 feet away. I ate two turkey breast Monday evening and I woke up in the middle of the night and my bedroom smelled like a sewage. It was so strong I had to spray Lysol. I sleep with my bedroom window up a little and it traveled outside all around my house. Even in my car. This is what my neighbors has been smelling. I have seen my neighbors have plumbers come out. I can see the plumber looking at my house after he finishes.
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Take low histamine probiotic - probiota histamineX everytime you have heavy meal.
I agree with what you said except for being paranoid because people can smell it through the phone and outside of might as well as my car. At least 10-15 feet away. I ate two turkey breast Monday evening and I woke up in the middle of the night and my bedroom smelled like a sewage. It was so strong I had to spray Lysol. I sleep with my bedroom window up a little and it traveled outside all around my house. Even in my car. This is what my neighbors has been smelling. I have seen my neighbors have plumbers come out. I can see the plumber looking at my house after he finishes.
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First of all, PATM does not emit an odor, however TMAU does, temau has treatment to alleviate certain diets. Nothing is known about PATM other than a superficial study from 2014 by a Japanese, no one else published information about PATM. First of all, make sure if you have PATM or TMAU.
No. It's doesn't transmit through phones. You can check yourself. Call someone who lives away from you for 30 mins and and observe reaction. If they react ask them if they are sick. May be the reaction you heard because they were actually sick.
The gas can travel outside car because you have air ventilators in cars unless you turn on internal circulation mode.
Also, gas can be trapped inside car because it was filled when you were in there.
Although, PATM gas itself doesn't have any ordor, it can bring up fart gas build up in our gut. That's why sometimes room is filled up of hydrogen sulfide (sewage) gas. If you watch your diet, the smell shouldn't come out. Also, sometimes there is some weird smell like smoke, petroleum, burnt rubber, etc. I don't have explaination for that but it might be because the irritant gas is hurting intestines and weird smell is coming out.
Also the smell may because of wounds on small intestine.
I am curious, have you ever seen blood in your poop?
The gas can travel outside car because you have air ventilators in cars unless you turn on internal circulation mode.
Also, gas can be trapped inside car because it was filled when you were in there.
Although, PATM gas itself doesn't have any ordor, it can bring up fart gas build up in our gut. That's why sometimes room is filled up of hydrogen sulfide (sewage) gas. If you watch your diet, the smell shouldn't come out. Also, sometimes there is some weird smell like smoke, petroleum, burnt rubber, etc. I don't have explaination for that but it might be because the irritant gas is hurting intestines and weird smell is coming out.
Also the smell may because of wounds on small intestine.
I am curious, have you ever seen blood in your poop?
I have never been tested for tmau. Patm is not a disease or diagnosis. It’s just what is says . People allergic to me because of the reactions we see from others it’s like an allergic reaction. Everyone I talk to on the phone rather through voice or FaceTime they start to react the same way if in my presence. I can see people making frowning faces through the screen. I called someone one day and when I finished talking she said who is this ? In a very frantic voice. I told her who I was and she answered my question. Then she said email me next time don’t call. But the sound of her voice was like got damn who is this? People on the other end always start to cough and sneeze. Some just sniff a lot. I cannot explain it. But I know this is happening. No I do not have any bleeding .
If you really think, people are reacting over phone or video call, you need to see a psychiatrist.
Well that is your opinion
I don’t know how, but the phone line transmission is also true in my case. No need for a psychiatrist. I’m just glad a got rid of the smell part.
You know once I spit out some thick mucus in the commode I can almost swear that after a while being there I saw mold but I thought I was tripping. I believe it happened two times.
Patm being transferred over phones and calls is explained through confirmation bias, psychology, and whether or not you have been with them in person.
Confirmation Bias is when someone only remembers evidence to support their claim and dismisses evidence that is to the contrary of the claim, in this case you are only remembering the times that people seemingly react over the phone and you dont remember the times that they dont. There are also many normal factors like dust, allergy season, environment that can play a part in someone seemingly having reactions because i think sometimes we forget that allergies are normal, not exclusive to patm, and are common. Confirmation bias is very prominent in patmers and its because we tend to always attribute any sort of allergies to us being the problem.
People will associate you with their reactions so when they see your face their body might trigger an immune response as if you were there and thats why people might react if they see you although this only applies to the start of the phone call.
Im pretty sure the gas that we emit can stay in peoples bodies for some time after we leave them, the reason why smokers clear their throats more than others is because the dangerous chemicals in their lungs dont clear out until a certain time and that same principle can be applied to patm albeit less dangerous as smoking. In my personal experience i have noticed 2 people, my mom and friend, have started to clear their throat even when im not around so im guessing that was developed because they are breathing in patm and its not clearing out of their lungs.
Patm does not transfer through phones and its mostly linked to confirmation bias
Confirmation Bias is when someone only remembers evidence to support their claim and dismisses evidence that is to the contrary of the claim, in this case you are only remembering the times that people seemingly react over the phone and you dont remember the times that they dont. There are also many normal factors like dust, allergy season, environment that can play a part in someone seemingly having reactions because i think sometimes we forget that allergies are normal, not exclusive to patm, and are common. Confirmation bias is very prominent in patmers and its because we tend to always attribute any sort of allergies to us being the problem.
People will associate you with their reactions so when they see your face their body might trigger an immune response as if you were there and thats why people might react if they see you although this only applies to the start of the phone call.
Im pretty sure the gas that we emit can stay in peoples bodies for some time after we leave them, the reason why smokers clear their throats more than others is because the dangerous chemicals in their lungs dont clear out until a certain time and that same principle can be applied to patm albeit less dangerous as smoking. In my personal experience i have noticed 2 people, my mom and friend, have started to clear their throat even when im not around so im guessing that was developed because they are breathing in patm and its not clearing out of their lungs.
Patm does not transfer through phones and its mostly linked to confirmation bias
Mold can release mVOCs and mycotoxins. We likely have a fungus releasing from our bodies. Which one? Who knows? The researcher from Brazil, what can we naturally do to kill aspergillus Fumigatus in our bodies?
Why do people continue to talk about patm as though it is a disease. Of course patm doesn’t travel through phone lines. Again patm is basically stands for people allergic to me. Because they show symptoms of allergies when they are in our presence. Again patm is not a disease. So basically this is how the patm thing started. Please stop calling it a disease. Just like ibs is not a disease but symptoms of a disease.
Are you hinting to patm not being a fungal or chemical problem? If so then what makes you think that.
Patm 100% causes reactions on the other side of video call and phone calls. If your does not you are lucky. Why would that be impossible when you can hear a phone and see a tv live around the world. If you get off the internet and read some medical literature, you will see how the olfactory system works and certain vibrations can stimulate the receptors. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening but why would you think it to be crazy? Almost every new movie has warnings about the flashes setting off convolutions. Btw a few years back I printed about 500 pages off this sight for a hard copy reference. If you will do the same you will see the patterns. The same circle you are in and I was along with many others on this sight. Some people have spent a lot of money. Had different types of surgeries, went to doctors, psychiatric centers. Strict diets. And almost nothing has worked. I’ve studied this problem for over 5 years and not just googling on the keep you in the box internet. Peer to peer researched papers, alternative medicine, the **** studies, met in person with other Patm people. Even had a study group a few years back with people from this sight. You can try all the steps and go through the ups and downs or maybe try something new. The rabbit hole goes deep my man. Maybe once in a while grab a beer and go out and enjoy yourself. Or waste a lot of years like many before just trying the same things over and over just to be disappointed. Clean up your diet, it helps with the smell, but the other random things will still be there. I’m pulling for you. No one should have to go through this. Take care of yourself, time is precious
Transmission through devices sounds crazy.. yes it does. I believe there are more people experiencing it than not. They hate to admit it.
I had a video call with a doctor once and she was frowning and covering her nose. Several phone conversations with a counselor when I was in therapy. She would have symptoms of bad allergies. Coughing, clearing her throat, sniffing. I finally asked her one day. What’s wrong do you have allergies? She said I don’t know what be happening. My daughter as well during FaceTime frowning and covering her nose. A girlfriend coughing and sometimes say whoooo!! A male friend said once I was just on the phone with my son and didn’t cough at all, but he started while talking to me and it happened each time. A person in the office of a previous employer. After I finished asking her a question she said who is this???!!!
I told her my name. She said to email her from now on but don’t call!!!! It was the tone of her voice. I spoke to a girl I Virginia for the first time two nights ago . I live in Bama she started coughing too. She is also a patmer I brought this to her attention. She finally admitted that she notices the reaction as well when talk on the phone but she never contributed it to her condition. I texted her yesterday and she said she was having symptoms of a cold or allergies and had a home visit from the clinic.I can go on and on about people reacting through electronics. Believe me it is real. We have to be honest with each other about what is going on with our bodies. I plan on asking a friend who I believe will be honest with me and I will post what she says.
I had a video call with a doctor once and she was frowning and covering her nose. Several phone conversations with a counselor when I was in therapy. She would have symptoms of bad allergies. Coughing, clearing her throat, sniffing. I finally asked her one day. What’s wrong do you have allergies? She said I don’t know what be happening. My daughter as well during FaceTime frowning and covering her nose. A girlfriend coughing and sometimes say whoooo!! A male friend said once I was just on the phone with my son and didn’t cough at all, but he started while talking to me and it happened each time. A person in the office of a previous employer. After I finished asking her a question she said who is this???!!!
I told her my name. She said to email her from now on but don’t call!!!! It was the tone of her voice. I spoke to a girl I Virginia for the first time two nights ago . I live in Bama she started coughing too. She is also a patmer I brought this to her attention. She finally admitted that she notices the reaction as well when talk on the phone but she never contributed it to her condition. I texted her yesterday and she said she was having symptoms of a cold or allergies and had a home visit from the clinic.I can go on and on about people reacting through electronics. Believe me it is real. We have to be honest with each other about what is going on with our bodies. I plan on asking a friend who I believe will be honest with me and I will post what she says.
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