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PATM cured

Hey guys I've been suffering from patm for about 2 months. luckily I was able to find am instant cure. I believe most people with patm are generally the type of people who would never want to hurt other people and damage others, which is why we care about other people coughing. I was quite generous and nice to others, but never nice to myself. Once you start having negative thoughts about others and yourself, you'll realize how quickly patm comes back. The trick is to remind yourself that you are someone who deserves to live, and that you shouldn't be afraid of anything. I mean you aren't afraid of thoughts of killing your ownself than why would you be afraid to go not give a dam about other people coughing and start enjoying your life and yourself.
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Avatar universal
We now know the cause of patm so we can forget about the delusional question once and for all. Please read my post to learn about what we know so far. In short PATM is caused by airborne toxins from the fermentation of food by gut microbes. Different microbes release different kind of toxins. It's not clear whether our gut is producing too much of it or liver is just failing to remove it caused by faulty or absent enzymes. Either way it builds up in the blood and ends up in our urine, sweat, breath, tears. There are articles on how one can remove toxins from the blood as much as possible. The best controllable way is to sweat by exercising and sauna but it won’t change the underlying problem. The type of gut microbial species and food eaten will determine what kind of toxins are produced. Therefore, it is of no coincident why probiotics, antibiotics and type of food eaten determines the severity of PATM.
Airborne toxins from our breath and sweat can interfere with other people’s innate immunity or cause inflammation by inhalation just as pathogens cause harm directly.
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3 Comments
Clinical FMT is considered the ultimate probiotic and antibiotic. This is why FMT has managed to cure incurable diseases such as crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis. Because PATM is just another digestive disease, FMT has the best chance of fixing it. If 10 doses of FMT doesn’t fix PATM then it’s most likely a missing or faulty enzyme in the liver caused by some kind of liver mutation and therefore cannot be fixed. I don’t see any other possible causation other than the above two.
TMAU2 is still considered a mutation in one particular liver enzyme, FMO3, similar to what I described above. That particular liver enzyme is responsible for removing a smelly fishy compound, TMA, a byproduct of gut microbe fermentation. Think of the smelly TMA compound as a type of toxin to make sense of all this. Let’s hope PATM isn’t the same but just a proliferation of some foreign or just bad strains of gut microbes. If that’s the problem, FMT will eat it up like chocolate. PATM could be caused by hundreds of different types of toxins from different gut microbial species so studying it will be very difficult.
If I try no less than 10 doses of FMT in a clinic and follow the accompanying temporary diet but still don’t see any changes, chances are it’s a liver enzyme problem and I’d just quit worrying about PATM because it cannot be fixed and just carry on with my life. But I do have high hopes FMT is going to fix it given it’s caused by a gut microbiota imbalance alone. Cross your fingers and try FMT… it’s very costly so if one person tries it make sure to report. It might take a month for repair to take place so don’t jump into conclusion on the first day of treatment.
Diet can help but down not cure this. MeBo is WRONG.. They know very little about patm.  That I know.    You can lower symptoms.  But patm goes nowhere.   Im almost done here on medhelp also.  But I'm telling everyone open your eyes.   Or keep eating greens and praying.    At least I can control mine.  Smoke is the iodine on the slide.  When I smoke you can see it all very clear this is NOT what you think it is.
Avatar universal
OK you do not have a cure. It's not about someones thinking.
It's real and for you to post a I got a cure statement is wow messed up. It's real and comes in many forms. It's rare but becoming into the light. Hope a real cure is out there soon.
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2 Comments
Did you guys try drinking inough water after every meal? Not realy a cure but it helps. Dont forget to pray too, im optimistic that only God can heal us
Nothing to do with God. Sorry.
Your exposed to something, whether you got what I got or the other crap that makes you stink. Heavy metals is one. The other is intestinAL
16586576 tn?1449410735
So envious of you, about mentioned the changes you make on yourself had made everything around you change.  

I've tried before, but things may not as per what I expected.
Maybe I not yet get the exact way or what.

The changes I observed from people around me, is they realised that I was unhappy, & they just try to avoid minimize showing some of their usual avoiding reactions on purpose. Still, it's another reminder.

But what can I do? I can only change my beliefs. Will keep going. =)
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1 Comments
The best advice I can give is try to figure out why you are unhappy. I know it is hard, but sometimes gotta let go of whatever is causing us to suffer inside. I'm still working on things too. Always believe that when there are bad times in life, there will also be good ones. However, don't force yourself to do  or be in anything you don't want. You can do it man, believe in yourself.
Avatar universal
It definetly is a cure. Have you tried not giving attention to other people? You guys are probably really attractive, intelligent beings who are not accepting yourself due to some trauma or unreliable people giving you false identity trying to keep you ****** as how they feel about themselves. I had that patm thing, its unexplainable, but I don't have it anymore. The best advice I can give you is that don't be looking for ourside sources for any kind of info. Look at what the hell you are doing to yourself. Ask yourself, am I fully awake and focused on the present moment on whatever I am doing right now or am I in this fog of unproductive negative thoughts. You have to do ot on your own.
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2 Comments
Hi Nsoz, lucky you to awake in that short period.

I took more than 10 years to realize I'm the one who's the  cruelest to myself. Because I tend to lower down myself thought it's humble behaviour?! I always feel inferior about my imperfections due to rely on others people thinking, or if speak nicely, being considerate.

Only us can heal ourselves now.
hi nsoz you are 100% right I am old member of this forum now days I am doing same like you live in present moment and same like you asking my self what's wrong with me same ..
1880475 tn?1579232941
Ketaconazole shampoo effective -1% over counter, 2% w RX, wash whole body, PATM will be gone for 1-2 days, then do again
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I've just learned to accept what I was born with. I'm just looking for someone who is the same as I that at least we can get close to each other. I'm not depressed nor have anxiaety, but it would be nice to be able to get close to someone. Someone want to create a PATM dating site? Please
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1 Comments
Hi also have PATM since a year and it is seriously disturbing my life.As i work in videos ,am always in places were there  are many people.And can't support seeing people coughin when am in in their surrounding.Please help with a comment that can save me from that situation
Avatar universal
The latest preliminary results from the MeBO clinical research has made the claim by @Nsoz/patm_fighter false. @Nsoz claims PATM is a psychological problem but MeBO scientists have proven experimentally it’s a real medical condition. We know the truth now but how does that explain @Nsoz’s findings?

There’s only two possible reason for @Nsoz misinformation. Either @Nsoz is faking it or honestly have some other psychological problems that she believes is related to our medical condition. I don’t think she is faking it so I believe she’s just misinformed about our condition. There are hundreds of cases like this where sufferers would go into a forum and identify themselves with a condition they do not have. It’s a very serious and sad condition. There’s actually a name for this condition but I forgot what it is called.

For instance, in many cases of Morgellons, sufferers with normal skin conditions would go into Morgellons forums and argue with members about their condition as Morgellons. They’d only know that it is not so when they get cured with ordinary dermatitis cream.
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49 Comments
@patmtolong
OK, I hear you @patmtolong but don’t you think there’s too much speculation there? The data and information so far doesn’t support any of your claims. TMAU2 is determined to be real and have nothing to do with psychology but so far MeBO scientists can’t differentiate between PATM and TMAU2. They will but just not yet, but it’s suggesting PATM is just another digestive or metabolic disorder very similar to TMAU2. Perhaps odorless or not, but still have many similarities with TMAU2. How would your “mind hypothesis” explain that? How would your mind hypothesis explain people’s allergic reaction? Scientists say it’s real but you say it’s not real and in the mind. Which is it? Are we supposed to throw away the empirical findings of scientists and rather listen to a random person on the internet? Honestly you don’t expect that do you?

There are so many other things that you still have to explain the contradiction. Every digestive problem whether within the gut or metabolic like liver or pancreas diseases has been found to be predictable by a leaky gut - IBS, IBD, TMAU1, TMAU, PATM and many others. All these diseases are real medical problems that have nothing to do with psychology. Why would you just isolate PATM out? What is your criteria?

PATM responds to almost the same diet as TMAU2. PATM responds to very strong antibiotics just as TMAU2 does. Which part is the mind playing here. We might as well call all diseases “mind diseases”.
All the evidence that we have gathered over the years + scientific evidence backed by real scientists at MeBO, are against your claims. I’m sorry but I see your claim is standing on no legs… it just doesn’t have a chance of being valid.

Btw, there is no different report. There’s only one scientific report from MeBO. Go and look at the extensive test they’ve carried out. Hopefully in the future we can find out more from their ongoing research. No one else has carried out any studies on PATMers.
@patmtolong
LOL...I'm not upset. Like you said it is a discussing forum so it's always civil.
@patmtolong
Hey, I sometimes find it hard to understand your writing. Are you using a translator of some sort?
@patmtolong
“…mind part comes second (a symptom) but casuing the reactions..”
Can you explain what do you mean by this? My understanding now is that you think that something causes the mind to malfunction and the mind causes the body to release toxins? Is that what you’re trying to say?
I agree with patmtolong, I think patm is created by the brain while thinking subconsciously we are in great danger because our microbial imbalance went completely out of control. In addition we project our feelings like fear/shame/nervousnes etc.
I'm noticing the reactions but I also see it vanishing if I'm eating lots of vegetables + concentrating on breathing in deeply and out.
Hey @keltic. I disagree and here is why. If it's caused by your brain, then why is vegetables diet fixing it? How would you make the connection? Are TMAU patients having brain function problems as well since eating vegetables help them too? So far MeBO results show we have leakygut – both PATM and TMAU2 volunteers. Did the brain cause leakygut? We know scientifically that certain pathogenic microbes or toxic substances from food can cause leakygut but there’s never been any evidence of a brain causing leakygut.

Another question, why breathe deeply? Deep breaths only bring in more oxygen, but why not just get an oxygen bottle and increase your oxygen breath concentration by a million folds. That should cure it but scientifically we know that the only purpose of breathing is to get in oxygen and the body knows when there’s not enough oxygen or too much oxygen and adjusts itself without you thinking about it. I was on it 3 days non-stop in the hospital, didn’t cure me.

In the real world claims are only as good as the proof.

Here’s one thing that some people don’t know, since the body regulates oxygen intake. If you take in oxygen which the body doesn’t need, it will adjust automatically by decreasing your breathing rate and/or red blood cells (oxygen carriers). It does this automatically. This is why mountaineers, whom stay up high for too long, have higher red blood cell count than those living near elevation of sea-level, would suddenly drop their red blood cell count and breathe much slower when coming down. The body knows how to adjust. There’s no need to force it because it won’t do anything. If the body didn’t do adjust automatically we’d suddenly fall dead or faint from the lack of oxygen but who among us has ever reported fainting from PATM? None!

Also, this is the reason why people who were aided by oxygen supplementation in the hospital for far too long need time to adjust to the low oxygen in natural air when leaving the hospital. Their body suddenly feel the low oxygen and start forcing the creation of red blood cells to accommodate for the low oxygen concentration in the air. They start to breathe faster than normal for a few days until their blood counts is back to normal. If they aren’t careful, they can easily faint and are tired most of the time. They can’t exercise for at least a few weeks until they recover.

There are actually diseases that exist with this low oxygen intake. Anemia is one of them. These people’s number one symptoms is that they’re tired most of the time as if they just ran 20 miles all the time. They are super tired all the time and can’t do anything. Forget about exercise, it’s the worst thing for them. Exercise to an anemia patient is like dairy+sugar for us. It’s a no no. But if you look around, there are athletes, footballers, military personnel, marathon runners among us. That’s not a sign of low oxygen intake, probably the opposite if you ask me. Maybe we should breathe less with the analogy given above…lol.

I’m honest with my opinions all the time. With all the data that we have now, including that from MeBO researchers, it’s pointing to only two possible causes. 1) Gut dysbiosis or 2) Liver enzyme(s) malfunction. Hopefully in the future, we can eliminate one to know what it is. If it’s caused by pathogenic gut microbes, then there’s a possibility of finding the right drugs to cure it or FMT. If it’s a bunch of dysfunctional liver enzymes, then god help us because there’s no way to heal it. We’d have to live our lives just like the TMAU patients, until DNA engineering becomes a norm which is probably 20-50 years from now.
People with low oxygen always need more meat and iron. These two are the worst for us.
MeBO researchers didn't see any low iron in any group including PATM.
I'm not sure why vegetables do have such an impact on my patm I believe it's somehow repairing inflamed cells which are damaged by toxins of large amounts of bad bacteria strains in our gut and this afterwards is reducing the subconscious negative thoughts our brain is creating.
I don't think TMAU patients are having brain function problems but I don't know any TMAU sufferers I can only share my experiences.
Yeah I also believe we're having disbalances in our gut this is why I'm not disputing any of these MeBO results.

Breathing in deeply has the function to soothe us down and especially our subconscious thoughts will be less disrupted by external influences. I spoke with many patmers and it also seems like many patmers tend to suck in their abdomen to look slimmer which increases the probability to obtain symptoms of indigestion which then could lead to microbial imbalances and patm.

two years ago I was completely convinced it's impossible it has something to do with my brain and I couldn't believe it will ever be controllable for me but it seems I wasn't right.
I don't want to discourage you to do further research on gene deffects etc but I want you to look at this disease from different perspectives, too. I think it's not impossible there are things we are not aware of yet in relation to all brain functions.
I get your point @keltic; your beliefs are important and thank you for sharing. It’s very very interesting.

Here’s my experience. I’ve had PATM for almost 30 yrs. and according to Ray2502, he had it for over 40 yrs. and still we haven’t observed what you’ve described. 99% of sufferers have blamed the cause of PATM on what they eat, leaky gut, candida, gut microbiota imbalance and liver problems. MeBO has scientifically confirmed leakygut and the lack of certain metabolites like amino-acids as symptoms among PATMs. Let alone the MeBO clinical research was also done exactly to prove your claim; whether it’s psychological or not and it proved it wasn’t psychological. They don’t know about us, all they have is PATMers collected samples, objective data and scientific research results. Science doesn’t lie or biased in any way, but our opinions could be false because it’s based on our thoughts and limited observations.

Therefore, the best way to prove something is compare our community findings to scientific empirical evidence like that provided by MeBO. Some ideas will be verified but some not. There are ideas that I had before but doesn’t comply with their objective findings; I trashed them because evidence is against it.

Have you seen the presentation by preliminary MeBO clinical research results? Check it out for yourself. There’s a link somewhere to the YouTube video. It’s interesting how they came to prove exactly what the majority of us believed. As a matter of fact, I never believed the leaky gut supposition though it was brought up every now and then for the last 10 years. Many sufferers have claimed they got a diagnosis for it but the idea was murky added with the notion that people confused leaky gut with leaky gut syndrome. MeBO confirmed that and it’s a done deal and can’t be undone.

Vegetable intake for TMAU is to decrease certain food that feeds the TMA producing bacteria. It’s called choline and carnitine. It’s rich in meat and seafood but quite low or absent in vegetables. While I don’t necessary believe PATM has the same precursor compounds to TMA, it is obvious that whatever is feeding the gut bacteria that produces PATM allergic compounds, is also rich in meat, sweet and dairy products. At least that’s what we’ve found so far by trial and error over the years. If one of us eats chocolate and drink a lot of coke but try to wish it away, it will be a disaster.

“Breathing in deeply has the function to soothe us down”

Most PATM sufferers aren’t suffering from stress; they want PATM to just disappear. I don’t think breathing has anything to do with it just as breathing doesn’t help TMAU. It’s interesting historically because in the not so distant past when TMAU wasn’t known, these ideas were encouraged to TMAU sufferers to help wish it away. It didn’t no matter how hard they tried. For instance, if this was a realistic method many would have been healed 10 years ago from this psychological approach, but none have. If you watch the video, just a few decades ago, provided on the link on one of my posts, before TMAU came prominent, many psychologists stated that TMAU patients were mental and needed counseling and stress relieving assistance. Psychologists and doctors did this because they couldn’t understand the medical problem at that time. It didn’t help them just as it hasn’t helped any of us, Or any medical disease out in the real world. When it was finally discovered, what really helped is avoiding choline by eating vegetables without it.

The other argument is, if it has something to do with your brain, you should be cured immediately the moment you realized it, shouldn’t it? I’ve heard so many claims that it’s psychological but not only they haven’t fixed themselves but all objective evidence collected is against it. All digestive problems seem to have leakygut as a good predictor. There’s no brain involved in that.

And again, if a brain is faulty then how can you fix a faulty brain with the same faulty brain. That’s a paradox.

It’s easier to see it this way. In computer science, Artificial Intelligence (AI) in general is the creation of artificial minds and intelligence. It’s slow right now but prediction say it will surpass our human minds several trillion trillion times in the future, as technology increases. It took 3 billion years from cells to evolve into cockroaches but less than 50 yrs. for us to move from a dumb simple calculator to the modern computer which is about the intelligence of an earthworm or cockroach, and by that rate, computers will surpass the current human intelligence in the near future.

The CPU & OS is the mind of a typical computer. Theoretically, an automated computer can fix any faulty program but it can’t fix its own mind, CPU/OS, if it’s broken. Everything that comes from it is unreliable. This is because a faulty tool can’t fix itself. If it succeeds it wouldn’t know that it has, because it is faulty in the first place. In theory its operation would all be questionable including diagnosis of itself.

There goes my two cents.

It’s ironic to how MeBO continues their progress and reveal more about us. Imagine when we look back at our ideas after more is found. I think there’d be a lot of things unexpected found. Let’s cross our fingers and wait.
in my case relaxion just plays the second role, the important part is to reproduce the microbial balance in the gut which is much more difficult. It's close to impossible to calm down if I subconsciously think I'm in danger.
Where do you get the information that most patmers aren't suffering from stress? I've made the contrary experience that many patmers atleast had much stress before it started. Just imagine it's not impossible what I'm saying you will notice you didn't even weigh up to try this method once. Do you think it's coincidence that patmers who are most scientific minded are observing the heaviest symptoms? I think it's because they are commonly the people which will be the last ones that would try alternative things that aren't scientific prooven yet.
Keltic you are 100% right.At some point
I was teaching chemistry and biology but I realized that medicine is not for me because I am very sensitive person and
when I saw blood I feel bad.As I said before traditional medicine can't cure chronic diseases.The reason for that is traditional medicine does not treat the human body as a whole thing.Traditional medicine do not see things like reason and consequence.And in most cases heals the consequence.That's why is not effective.It's effective to reduce the symptoms but not to heal diseases.That's why I don't care about the scientific facts despite that biology and chemistry are interesting for me.And btw I'm about 90% PATM free.I say no to antibiotics,I say yes to probiotics,diets,detoxes,reducing the stress and alternative medicine.As I said before we need emotions at a high level,positive vibes and energy is really important for human body and health.
“in my case relaxion just plays the second role, the important part is to reproduce the microbial balance in the gut which is much more difficult. It's close to impossible to calm down if I subconsciously think I'm in danger.”

Are you always thinking there’s danger? I never think like that unless lives are at stake. Most people don’t think like that. Even TMAU who are worse than PATMers don’t think like that. I agree if you think like that then you need calm down. PATM hasn’t killed anyone so there’s no need to get stressed unless someone’s life is endangered. AIDS should make someone stressed because they’d suffer and in agony many weeks before ending in a horrible death.

“Where do you get the information that most patmers aren't suffering from stress? I've made the contrary experience that many patmers atleast had much stress before it started.”

Well that isn’t the case, if you look at all the posts. Most PATMers would express they did have some kind of infections, or antibiotics cycles before it happened. Myself, I’ve never been happier in my life until this problem showed up out of nowhere. I did cycle months earlier on various antibiotics to clean out an infection. Look at these two explaining how it hit them when they were enjoying themselves with big dreams. They were happy as anyone else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNZJhAJ4X_k&t=45s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbEsDaYPOHI&t=355s
If you look at the data with honesty, you will see that I’m right. All sufferers were living their life like everybody else when it hit them. Most people like me expected it would disappear suddenly just as it appeared but it didn’t.

Ellie James who’s been refused by doctors/psychologists for 11 years, was finally diagnosed by a specialist to have TMAU2. Explaining on TV, she has TMAU2 but also explained symptoms exactly like PATM i.e. fiddling with their nose, eyes water, coughing and sneezing. I couldn’t believe what I saw, she explained she had the odor because she has TMAU but also described in addition, what PATM people had always described a million times before. Here check it out for yourself on video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wThgH7BVMg&t=1m25s
This woman seems to have TMAU2 and PATM both at the same time. As she described on another video she was on cycles of antibiotics before it happened. Her doctors think the antibiotic cycles she took must have screwed enzymes in her liver.

Btw, isn’t it peculiar to you that MeBO researchers haven’t found anything yet to separate TMAU2 from PATM yet? They’ve been grouped so far together except one statistical test that was shown on 3D graphs. I wrote them asking and they said at this time they can’t be separated based on leakygut alone. Why? They are very similar and the statistics hasn’t been able to separate them so far. Notice how Ellie James is expressing symptoms of both conditions.  I believe MeBO researchers will eventually separate them but the similarity in the tests so far proves what we’ve seen in real life. They have so much similarities; excluding odor. If you’re rational you’d have to agree that it does. Its proven on both real life scenarios and scientific experimentation.

On same video below, she’s describing how doctors thought it was all in her head for 11 years and tormented her. She went from doctor to doctor but they kept on saying it was all in her head without doing any tests, until she was diagnosed thoroughly by a specialist. Doesn’t the attitude of the unbelieving doctors she sought for help, sound familiar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wThgH7BVMg&t=1m54s


“Just imagine it's not impossible what I'm saying you will notice you didn't even weigh up to try this method once.”

LOL.. I won’t try to do something that I already know that I don’t have and probably know more about stress in this forum than anyone else. If I ask someone to explain the different hormones involved in stress, I doubt anyone would know the stress hormones or describe how they function. Yes, I do know how it works and I know that I’m not stressed at all.
If stress was the problem, all the people that believed it wouldn’t be here. They’d be healed by the mental cure and then they’d disappear but I’ve been hearing the same people saying it’s a cure but they never get cured or anyone else.
“ Do you think it's coincidence that patmers who are most scientific minded are observing the heaviest symptoms?”

Not at all. That’s not the rational way to judge. One person like me doesn’t make everyone who are educated automatically worst PATMers. Being educated and how severe PATM is are not correlated if you know anything about statistics. On my case it depends on what I eat. If you read my posts I stated this clearly, once I change my diet and take supplements, they disappear or almost unnoticeable the next day but I can’t keep the diet because it’s hard. If I could like most people here, then it will be OK most of the time. When sufferers began following @gratefull2011 veggie diet, it helped a lot of people. When someone posted amino-acids supplements and RESTORE, it coincided well with what scientists found. All the pieces correlate with their findings.

Besides, if it was in the mind, it wouldn’t matter what I eat or do, wouldn’t it? Of course. I’m not sure if you know but leakygut has nothing to do with the mind. No peer-reviewed-paper on earth has related psychology with leakygut, ever? Your claim would also imply that you are smarter than PH.D. Dr. Irene Gabashvili, from the MeBO clinical research team. Let me quote her, “…at least it [data from samples &statistical outcome] can show or demonstrate that sufferers are actually,.. whatever they’re exhibiting is real and that they can very accurately pinpoint the source.”

So you are telling me here that these scientists are not brainy enough to make that conclusion but you are? Come on, be realistic. Have you looked at the tests they’ve done so far and the statistical methods used? It’s very very complicated.

Likewise, to say that science knowledge makes a person mentally irrational is absurd. The more educated you’re the better you’re aware of your surroundings. If I were absolutely uneducated I would probably fall for your ideas because I’d have no way of judging accurately whether your ideas are right or not. Fortunately, I know stress quite well. I know psychologists play around with these terms a lot; but they know very little about it because it all depends on hormones. This is why some medications and injections are actually hormones. Some are given to many patients especially the retards to calm them down. While it may calm them down it can affect their overall body function because hormones are the slow communication system of the body and screwing with them isn’t always a good idea. There’s also the natural way, mind exercises. I use to sleep in lectures when this was taught because every student knew this and just wanted the lecture to end asap. For us students at the time, calming stress via mental exercise was really something for arts students or vocational universities and needed no explanation. It comes naturally and lecture material was pretty straight forward.

“I think it's because they are commonly the people which will be the last ones that would try alternative things that aren't scientific prooven yet.”

Yes, I won’t try it because I don’t need it. As a science person who’s studied about it, know when to apply it. If my family died from a plane crash, I’d probably try to calm myself down mentally because I’d be stressed. Btw, almost everything you’re using now is the result of academia. Science is just a more rigid approach of the already existing academic approach that were used for hundreds of years. It always works. Psychology which is not science, is based on science but science doesn’t need psychology. Psychology try to interpret the scientific discoveries and apply it to the mind but many psychologists have got it wrong. The significance level of prediction in psychology is so low that many academics just do without it. I think computer technology will get quite advanced that it will either make psychology dead or merge at some point.

I’m more than sure that 99% of this forum aren’t what you’ve described because if it was real it would have worked. It obvious that the moment it was brought up by someone years ago, many would jump right in and if it worked it would have spread like wildfire. Unfortunately, it never worked. You can’t heal a serious medical condition with the mind my dear. It’s impossible. While it happens in movies it doesn’t happen in real life. No one can heal AIDS or TMAU with their mind.

For PATM, only science can find it. With the data we have it appears we are very close to finding what it is. A cure is a different matter so it wouldn’t be necessary to address now if we can’t find any. We believe, the problem is either in the gut or liver.

If it’s the gut, it could be gut dysbiosis or problem on epithelial cells, similar to cystic fibrosis. If it’s the liver, it could be a liver enzyme failure.

Both can also happen. For instance, TMAU patients with dysfunctional liver enzymes have been known to have leakygut. Leakygut is a symptom associated with almost all digestive problems but scientists are trying hard to understand why. It’s been observed that gut microbial toxins cause leakygut but scientists think there are probably other causes i.e. food components that destroy epithelial cells or tight junctions, faulty membrane channels.

Cystic fibrosis is a disease where epithelial cells are behaving funny because of faulty CFTR protein which is in channels that control water and chloride ions. It’s not so bad on the gut because bacteria are meant to live there but in the lungs, sufferers develop infections. It is possible that some channel or surface proteins on epithelial cells are faulty and cause problems in abortions (permeability) in some way.

Ray2502 has found that taking heavy doses of vitamin D, which I wouldn’t recommend, helped alleviate his condition greatly. Vitamin D main role is increasing the absorption rate of certain minerals. Perhaps it’s affecting the rate of absorbing of other ingredients in reverse.
You don't need to feel offended, I just want to share my experiences and want other people to look with different perspectives on this disease. It's up to you if you trust me.

No, I'm not thinking there's danger. But I do think it's possible my subconsciuous mind sometimes doesn't agree with that. Besides like I said earlier, we are possibly projecting these emotions. Most of these "patm" coughs could be because of nervousness, this explains why several patmers claim that patm even goes through skype etc. but you are probably not interested in this field. I didn't say a stress relief has cured me, it's not even the main problem for me. I still think the problem is an microbial imbalance, which is interpreted as danger for our subconscious mind. Logically a TMAU patient keeps a high chance of feeling the same way we feel, I don't see why it's locked out that a TMAU patient after a while makes similar experiences.
Hello dontgiveuphope,

I take vitamin D supplements because yes it does help minimize PATM but also we are severely deficient in vitamin D. We avoid dairy products including milk, cheese, yogurt because it triggers PATM.

If anybody that is suffering from PATM and goes on a PATM diet which includes not eating certain types of food, they will be deficient with certain vitamins and minerals just like the lady on the youtube video.
@ mindspace
Hey @mindspace, how are you. Good to see you posting dude. How’s the treatment going.

“Keltic you are 100% right. At some point I was teaching chemistry and biology but I realized that medicine is not for me because I am very sensitive person and when I saw blood I feel bad.”

I think you meant medicine only or just modern medicine. Medicine is defined as the science and practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of diseases. Traditional medicine is something else. In general, traditional medicine means the indigenous medicine according to different cultures.

“As I said before traditional medicine can't cure chronic diseases.”

Chronic disease means it can’t be cured so therefore long lasting. Once it’s curable and quickly, it’s not considered chronic anymore.

“The reason for that is traditional medicine does not treat the human body as a whole thing. Traditional medicine do not see things like reason and consequence. And in most cases heals the consequence. That's why is not effective. It's effective to reduce the symptoms but not to heal diseases.”

That is what medicine is here for. If modern medicine didn’t exist, perhaps the world population would hardly be above a billion. Diseases that killed millions in the past, are now either controlled or just eradicated. That’s the work of modern medicine. Small box killed 500 million people in the 20th century – modern medicine killed the smallpox virus from the entire planet. 500 million is more than the population of the U.S., Canada, Russia combined. The amount of deaths of other disease brought upon the world is as crazy in size. For instance, the plague was incurable like AIDS, before modern medicine got rid of it, killed hundreds of millions more every time it resurfaced. Malaria was incurable until modern medicine came along. It’s building resistance and new drugs are being sought after. Modern medicine is controlling them. Bird flu, Ebola, sars, BSE etc. would have done exactly what the plague did but many times over. Why do you think all of the above probable epidemic stopped from spreading? Here’s why. As soon as a potential epidemic disease spreads, WHO and scientists around the world are mobilized, working nonstop to contain and develop a vaccine to stop it in its tracks. If they didn’t do that, there’s probably a 99% that all of us here, including you and me, would be among the dead because centuries ago before modern medicine, every time a new disease surfaces, it takes about half of the world population within months.

Traditional medicine is not completely useless because many modern medicine were derived from it. The reason it’s been shunt aside by many people is because those who practice it have no idea about the underlying chemistry and molecular biology that is responsible for the existence of either the disease or cure itself. Almost everything used by sufferers now were discovered by scientists. All these supplements were mostly discovered by scientists. i.e. amino-acids, Restore, including how our gut works.
Our ancestors knew some stuff but not through understanding of the biological and chemical makeup but through trial and error for tens of thousands for years. If the medicine doesn’t work, they don’t know why or how to fix it. Because of this the significant level is within the 30%-50%. PATM is not understood because scientists don’t know it, it’s because we don’t have the money to pay them to study it. No scientists will work on something for free and throw away their career. So far, we had to rely on their mercy. It’s not because they don’t know. It’s just like anything else. If you want a car that is very expensive and complicated to manufacture, it’s going to cost a fortune. Nobody does anything for free, someone is always paying. Engineers won’t make that car unless someone pays.

“That's why I don't care about the scientific facts despite that biology and chemistry are interesting for me.”

Scientific facts mean truths, right? If they’re not facts, then they are likely false or low probability and unscientific. If you don’t mind, can you tell me where you taught biology and chemistry? What level and curriculum involved? It’s not my business and won’t ask you further on them but I’m just curious. If not, don’t worry about it.

“And btw I'm about 90% PATM free.”

I’m 95-99% PATM free only when I’m following the right protocol but in many cases I don’t because I want to enjoy my meal. I only follow all the right routines if there’s an important event coming up.

“I say no to antibiotics”

I think you mean antibiotics made by pharmacists that are artificial. Let me explain the definition of antibiotics. Antibiotics by definition originally is anything derived from mould or bacterium for the purpose of treating against another bacterial infection. Now it’s used in general to refer to anything that kills bacterial infection. In medicine they can either be derived it from natural existing substances or artificially. The probiotics that we take which the various strains are identified by scientists to begin with, are actually releasing a form of antibacterial and antibiotic chemical to fend off other species or crowd out other species. Science doesn’t differentiate between natural and artificial drugs, only what works best for the job. (Drugs is an isolated compound.) Natural antibiosis is however preferred because the human body has evolved with it for millions of years. Tea tree oil, oregano oil, turmeric (cumin)  can all be considered antibiotics, but perhaps not so effective depending on its application. People have used the word antibiotics to mean only artificial drug that is used to kill bacteria but in strict meaning it isn’t. This is why I’ve referred to some of the natural antimicrobial medicine that we use as antibiotics.

“I say yes to probiotics,diets,detoxes,reducing the stress and alternative medicine.”

All these are scientific or based on scientific ideas. Antibiotics and probiotics that you take are manufactured by scientists but can be sold by almost anyone. Diet, most people talk about protein and carbohydrates, minerals and vitamins and antioxidants. These didn’t come from folklore medicine; they were discovered in labs. Protein is microscopic, it’s amino-acids connected via peptide bonds. Minerals are elements, K, Ca, N, Zn, Na etc. Carbohydrates, including sugars, are defined chemically. Stress is defined in biology extensively by a set of hormones but psychology has added their own predictions and definitions on top in relation to what they think the mind is doing.

Alternative medicine doesn’t discover or invent anything in real life. It’s a term general used to describe non-scholars, who read a lot of the work (scientific papers) by scholars in their own free time and come up with their own interpretation of what’s really happening despite the absent of biology and chemistry background. Actually, we can say that everyone here in this forum, reading peer-reviewed-papers in google scholar and makes an alternative view is an alternative medicine practitioner by definition. Dr. Oxe, Dr. Exward Group, Dr Leonard Coldwell, Dr. Darren Schmidt are examples of these alternative medicine doctors. They either reverberate what scientists have already explained on paper or explain things in their own views. They have no background in science or medicine but have a lot of followers so make a lot of money. Alternative medicine businesses are thriving around the world because laws are not restrictive. They often use the Dr. title to confuse people to think they’re real doctors so they can sell their products. I’d guess 99.9% percent of doctors on YouTube videos aren’t real medical doctors. Here’s the good part about them, it’s sometimes a benefit because they’ve managed to make deals with pharmacists and scientists to retail products or if easy manufacture it themselves that would be hard for any of us to get or really expensive from a pharmacy.
@ray2502
Hey Ray, interesting thought. I haven’t checked on my Vitamin D level but it’s interesting to look at. Have you checked your vitamin D level lately?
Hello keltic,

I've never seen your username on here before or you might have a new username but anyways welcome to the forum.

I have experienced elevated PATM levels when I'm stressed out but it's not the underlining problem, its just a symptom. As you know, the body shifts all of its energy resources toward fighting off a life threat, or fleeing from an enemy. The SNS signals the adrenal glands to release hormones called adrenalin and cortisol. It does not even have to be a life threatening situation and immediately our blood sugar spikes and our immunity is suppressed which in turn causes PATM reactions.

Like dontgiveuphope mentioned, I've had this for much to long to say that its a mental problem.
I invite you to please watch the youtube videos on TAMU intently and just hear them out.
I didn't want to post my experiences to fast because I could not believe my own thoughts when i started to realize the brain seems to be involved with this disease. but maybe we don't have the same disease and we have just the same symptoms.

If you look above on this site you will notice I was the first person who commented on Nsoz's thoughts.

I never said stress is the underlying problem, I think the main problem is a microbial imbalance, the second step is a confused/misinformed subconscious mind and third step is the projection of these subsequently appearing emotions.

However stress will expend this problem because the mind capacity is already limited by this disease. If we become patm free for a short period it will soon come back if we don't reproduce the microbial imbalance.
Hey dontgiveup hope,

Alternative medicine is a very broad term...

"Alternative medicine doesn’t discover or invent anything in real life." - that's not necessarily true. Most herbal medicines were not discovered by scholars, they were discovered by regular people and tens or maybe hundreds of years of trial and error by our ancestors, in fact our modern pharmacy has started out from folk medicine as the basis, pharma companies were and possibly still are sending scouts all around the world to learn about the so-called traditional/folk medicine. Of course folk medicine was not always true and pharmacology has outdone herbs in most areas, but my problem with big pharma now is that they are becoming more and more corrupt and more and more bureaucratic. The sad truth is that no big pharmaceutical company is truly interested in curing anyone at this point, it is just not profitable. It is profitable to invent medicines that make people feel better, while they are taking the medicine. My observation is that modern pharma companies are not interested in curing people and I know this for a fact at this point. I could talk about this extensively, but it is beyond the scope of this board and this thread.

That's why on some fronts traditional medicine wins, because it was always primarily greared towards curing people, but it is, unfortunately, out-dated or just has its limitations.

That's what I have to say on the topic of pharmaceuticals.

And about brain-health connection - there are definitely some things/phenomena in medicine that are beyond our current understanding of medicine and PATM is one of them.

Why?

Because PATM is not a gas.

Let me first say that I am a very scientifically leaning/minded person, I have a very good science background and I am, overall, a very sober-thinking individual.

I have done a few small surveys on my PATM contacts and about 60% of those I talked to report PATM over the walls, in moving cars, over telephone and over Skype and then some. As I mentioned here believe PATM is some sort of a radiating field for most people, try and talk about that to any doctor or researcher :) (I would HIGHLY advise against such thing).

So on the topic of PATM being related to our brain or not - I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out.

I do think that most likely and infectious in nature, but I agree with keltic that there might be some things about nature that might be beyond our current understanding.
To clarify my last point: I think PATM is most likely related to microbial imbalance, but I agree with keltic that there might be some things about nature and PATM that might be beyond our current understanding, so our brain might be playing some part in all of this as well.
@keltic
“You don't need to feel offended, I just want to share my experiences and want other people to look with different perspectives on this disease.”

Hey thanks, I’m not offended and thank you for sharing your thoughts. There’s a saying in diplomacy that once the talking and sharing stops, guns start banging…lol. Discussing and debating is best thing to solve problems, weed out bad ideas and bring in new good ideas. I’m not so sure why some people get offended in discussions and when confronted by the truths they end up complaining. I see this often in this forum.

“It's up to you if you trust me.”

Perhaps it will work for someone else but not me.

“No, I'm not thinking there's danger. But I do think it's possible my subconsciuous mind sometimes doesn't agree with that. Besides like I said earlier, we are possibly projecting these emotions.”

LOL… are you serious? Perhaps you are but I don’t.

“Most of these "patm" coughs could be because of nervousness, this explains why several patmers claim that patm even goes through skype etc. but you are probably not interested in this field.”

Don’t worry, most of those posts are either trolls or just newbies trying to understand what’s really happening to them. I’ve seen ideas here supposing that if someone coughs from the other room, air has gone through the wall in the speed of light…lol. That’s just a lack of education. Btw, there’s nothing anyone can think of that can get to the other person. Those are science fiction ideas. No one can control anyone’s mind remotely. It’s not possible.

“I didn't say a stress relief has cured me, it's not even the main problem for me.”

Ok, I hear you on that. But what is the real problem exactly?

“I still think the problem is an microbial imbalance, which is interpreted as danger for our subconscious mind.”

I get you but you’ll have to find a paper to explain all that because it’s just not documented anywhere. There is no link ever of leakygut and the subconscious mind. All of us were unaware until the test result from MeBO came through. There is no pain in leakygut. If leakygut sense danger to the mind, whatever that means, then you’d have the other digestive problem UC, CD and IBS to explain because they have it too.

But, I’d give it a second though if you provide me a peer-reviewed-paper. I’ve been debating with ray for how many days now and Ray has provided a paper that definitively explained some of his ideas. I had to give in. Facts are facts.

Please read my reply to mindspace because I’ve addressed some of these issues on it. The subconscious mind is subjective in a sense because there is no part of the brain like that – was used during the 18th century but it’s not physical thing. Psychology has their own thing of explaining things which I don’t want to get at. I stick to real science. It’s the reason why I dropped it. For me it had no explanatory power. In academia, no matter how good a discipline is, it must provide precise predictions. The problem with psychology is, it lacks that or another idea can easily cripple it with a better one.

“Logically a TMAU patient keeps a high chance of feeling the same way we feel, I don't see why it's locked out that a TMAU patient after a while makes similar experiences.”

TMAU is a real metabolic problem, I think you can’t apply your mental strategy to them. Scientists and specialists have confirmed their experiences as legitimate and psychology has no place there. They are legit.

It’s PATM that still needs explanation but on its way there. I think your ideas are OK but you need to provide scientific evidence – peer reviewed-papers on your ideas.

One of the problems with subconscious mind idea is that it has no real place in science. For instance, how do you trace from the leakygut to the subconscious mind? Ok, let’s look at the gut and trace the chemical pathway to the subconscious mind – and where is that in particular? It’s like tracing blood vesicles from the heart to a fairy. They are different things, one is real and objective and the other is subjective. In biology, to heal something we must deal with objectivity at all times.

Psychology is dying out because science has created an objective branch called neuroscience. There’s a lot of things is psychology that is almost outdated. They have to leave the subjective world if they are going to survive.
If I may interject, since I'm already a part of this discussion.

"Btw, there’s nothing anyone can think of that can get to the other person. Those are science fiction ideas. No one can control anyone’s mind remotely. It’s not possible."

The fact that something hasn't been proven yet does not make it impossible. The existence of black holes was not known, yet they exist, the existence of DNA was until not so long ago, yet it exists, human flight was not possible yet Wright brothers proved it possible. I don't have a particular stance on telepathy, but who knows, you definitely cannot say that it is not possible..

"Psychology is dying out because science has created an objective branch called neuroscience. There’s a lot of things is psychology that is almost outdated. They have to leave the subjective world if they are going to survive."

I'd laugh at that statement if I didn't know where you're coming from. There is good Psychology, but good psychology, and good psychiatry is just not mainstream, some people are making money of effective psychology and psychiatry, but unfortunately at the moment it is not  part of a common university curriculum. Neuroscience is quite a different field, maybe these two will merge at some point, but we still have a VERY-VERY long time to until that happens.

And lastly - about neurons in the gut - tons of information online. Here is something - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-second-brain/
"Psychology has their own thing of explaining things which I don’t want to get at." There you have it, you don't want to get at it and I'm working with these concepts and see my results.
I have no idea how the microbial imbalance is recognized by the brain, it's just an image that would explain my experience.

TMAU patients like us could feel unpleasant between people because there is always a residual risk that someone reacts to his evaporations
“Alternative medicine is a very broad term”

That’s what in general means. Broad and general mean the same thing.

..Alternative medicine doesn’t discover or invent anything in real life." - that's not necessarily true.”

I’m not suggesting. I’m just saying facts. When people talk about alternative medicine this is what they talk about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine
And yes, they haven’t discovered anything. What they do is read scientific papers and come up with their alternative views. They are like movie pirates, they wait for movies to come out and then sell them. Traditional medicine is often categorized there but it isn’t if it works.

“Most herbal medicines were not discovered by scholars, they were discovered by regular people and tens or maybe hundreds of years of trial and error by our ancestors”

I think you should go look at my post again and read please. I did not talk about herbal medicines it’s alternative medicine. Please read the wikipage to understand the difference between that and modern medicine. I have even said that some modern medicine has been derived from traditional medicine. I think you’re confused by the terminologies. Right now Alternative medicine practitioner haven’t discovered anything and probably never will. It’s because they’re trained in science.

“in fact our modern pharmacy has started out from folk medicine as the basis, pharma companies”

Yes, but has taken apart since chemistry and biology came of age. Alternative medicine is not about that dude. Let me give you a hint, alternative medicine is the practice of medicine that proves otherwise or lack proof that it works. I’ve given you examples of them in YouTube. Dr. Oxe is one. He went to alternative school. Yes, these dudes have made their own alternative medicine schools.

“were and possibly still are sending scouts all around the world to learn about the so-called traditional/folk medicine.”

Yes, I have explained that on my post, please read and understand. I said some modern medicines were derived from traditional medicines, that’s exactly what I mean. Alternative medicine is a different thing.

“Of course folk medicine was not always true and pharmacology has outdone herbs in most areas, but my problem with big pharma now is that they are becoming more and more corrupt and more and more bureaucratic.”

If you read my last paragraphs I mentioned that on it. Please read. I didn’t say corrupt though, but I said they’ve made things expensive so people on the alternative medicine side have sold things much more cheaply.

“The sad truth is that no big pharmaceutical company is truly interested in curing anyone at this point, it is just not profitable. It is profitable to invent medicines that make people feel better, while they are taking the medicine.”

It’s always been like that; it has never changed. Just like lawyers, accountants, engineers, athletes etc. They all train to come back and make business, career - MONEY. That’s the sad story for us. I know because I trained with many of them. We were given careers to choose which branch to follow. You follow the one that is most promising – the one makes more money for yourself. You heal at the most expensive price. When you went to school, did you study to help people or get a career and life, help your family? Whatever answer you give, it’s the same for doctors.

“My observation is that modern pharma companies are not interested in curing people and I know this for a fact at this point. I could talk about this extensively, but it is beyond the scope of this board and this thread.”

Yes, you are right. I agree. The Pharmacies are just like any other business. They are interested in curing people but also to make money. They want the most profitable path. Just like car manufacturers, KFC, Walmart and farmers growing wheat. They want to feed the world at the best price. That has never changed throughout the history of the world. People are brought up in religious ideas, thinking that there are those out there willing to work for us for free or love… it’s not like that in the real world. It’s love bought in money. It’s all about trade and making money. Even the philanthropist want fame and less tax, religious people believe they’re securing a rich place in a heavily afterlife when doing good… it’s all about a profit to receive afterwards regardless what it is. It comes back to basic survival.

“And about brain-health connection - there are definitely some things/phenomena in medicine that are beyond our current understanding of medicine and PATM is one of them.”

I think you are talking about the different organ system and their interoperability Yeah, there is. There nothing about leakygut and brain though, trust me. If you don’t believe me, find me a peer-preview-paper on the issue. There’s none.

“Why? Because PATM is not a gas. Let me first say that I am a very scientifically leaning/minded person, I have a very good science background and I am, overall, a very sober-thinking individual.”

I get you my friends and thanks for the sound proposal but there are things you might have overlooked or not grasp. If PATM is not a gas, then there’s nothing else. What do you propose? Photons? Gravity waves? If you take gas out, then there’s nothing else.

“I have done a few small surveys on my PATM contacts and about 60% of those I talked to report PATM over the walls, in moving cars, over telephone and over Skype and then some.

And where is that survey? Can you please post it online? My friend, why wasn’t I in it? Does my opinion count? I’m a PATMer, am I not?

“As I mentioned here believe PATM is some sort of a radiating field for most people, try and talk about that to any doctor or researcher :) (I would HIGHLY advise against such thing).”

Thanks, but honestly I don’t have to talk to a doctor about it because I know more than they do on this issue. Doctors don’t take physics courses, but I have. Medical doctors study biology, medicine, a little chemistry and whole lot more on compatible areas. Your proposed idea is impossible. I can’t help you to understand but you need to take the first physics course… classical physics. Once you’re done with it you’ll understand. I’ve explained this before but I know there’s a need to understand fundamental concepts otherwise we’ll just go around in circles. Ask ray, he’s done physics too I think, he might have some luck.

“I do think that most likely and infectious in nature, but I agree with keltic that there might be some things about nature that might be beyond our current understanding.”

Yes, we don’t understand it now but it’s not because we are incapable of understanding it. It’s because we don’t have the expertise to carry out these experiments. A research at this scales involves a lot of people. If we had the money, we can do the part the we understand and pay other people to perform the really hard parts. If we were millionaires, we can easily pay a group to do all of it. The main problem in any research is not the lack of brains, it’s the lack of funding - money. Even brains can be bought. If I had 2 million dollars, MeBO researchers would probably come out with the results we need in 2 months. Money can buy all the researchers and resources we need. And that could have been done 30 years ago if we had the money back then. Time to rob a bank…hahaha.
@keltic
"Psychology has their own thing of explaining things which I don’t want to get at." There you have it, you don't want to get at it and I'm working with these concepts and see my results.”

But you have no results. The results have to be objective, high significant level and compatible with current data AND current scientific research. You can’t make a claim and say it’s a result because we can’t see it.

“I have no idea how the microbial imbalance is recognized by the brain, it's just an image that would explain my experience.”

Ummmm! What are you talking about? Can you relate that to PATM? Or the issue at hand?

“TMAU patients like us could feel unpleasant between people because there is always a residual risk that someone reacts to his evaporations.”

OK I hear you Keltic. But this is the problem I was trying to get at before. The problem with your mental hypothesis is because it’s very subjective. You have to link things objectively otherwise it’s more like a discussion on religion.
I’ve given you an example. For instance, when you talk about subconscious mind, there’s no part like that in the human body. It’s a made up concept in psychology. It’s very hard to discuss issues like this when merging subjective body parts with real body parts in real science. It doesn’t work.
"Photons? Gravity waves?"

I'm guessing something like that....

"If you take gas out, then there’s nothing else."

You should understand that this statement is incorrect if you have a good grasp on physics...


"Your proposed idea is impossible."

That is a mere opinion and  not true at that, EM radiation is fact of life, though I am not saying that PATM is EM.

"I can’t help you to understand but you need to take the first physics course… classical physics. Once you’re done with it you’ll understand. I’ve explained this before but I know there’s a need to understand fundamental concepts otherwise we’ll just go around in circles. Ask ray, he’s done physics too I think, he might have some luck. "

Trust me I know my physics, and I've studied it well, I might not know the math of particle physics, but I am more than familiar with the most known concepts in most areas of physics...

I'm not saying that PATM comes from the brain, it might come from a particular organism that produces PATM, but the reactions themselves are not caused by the gas and yes they do travel through walls, cars, phones. The survey I did was a private one, my own gathered statistics from about 15 PATM people I talk to often, but let's we can do one here if you want.

Other then that I agree with everything you say, sorry I might not have read every single one of your comments in this thread initially. And I did send you the link on the gut-brain connection.
The problem with my 'field' theory of course is that if anyone who is dumb enough to start bringing this theory up with doctors  - you know which specialist they will send us to. :)
Besides that who knows - maybe it is psychological...I can't prove it isn't, but for now I am definitely sticking to the microbiological theory, I think this is a bacteria of some kind.
"Btw, there’s nothing anyone can think of that can get to the other person. Those are science fiction ideas. No one can control anyone’s mind remotely. It’s not possible."
“The fact that something hasn't been proven yet does not make it impossible.”

I hear you. My answer is based on real facts. If you are talking about impossibility, to be absolute strict, we don’t know what is impossible or possible for sure. No one does, we can guess but we still don’t know. It’s philosophical and scientific fact. But if we talk that way then there’s no meaning in creating such concepts at all. Most of the top intelligence agencies in the world have tried this in the past and failed. The main idea is because the brain is composed of billions of neurons firing unique electrical signals to other neurons at a controlled rate. It’s impossible for us humans at this day and age, to be able to fire unique signal from a distant and received clearly on each neuron. Neurons don’t have radio receptors and even if it were, there is no way to filter out the billions from one individual. We don’t even know how information is processed in the brain, we believe it’s working in parallel. Meaning information is being fed in and out in parallel mode like nothing we’ve see before. Computers work in serial mode. How on earth can we send signal to something we don’t know how it works to begin with?

Imagine if someone controlled the whole internet? Is that possible? No because you cannot know everything that is happening everywhere on the internet all at once. The human brain is many billions time more complicated than the internet, and we don’t know how it works. So with current technology it’s impossible. But what does that have to do with patm?

“The existence of black holes was not known, yet they exist, the existence of DNA was until not so long ago, yet it exists, human flight was not possible yet Wright brothers proved it possible.

Yes, you are talking about things that was discovered but we are talking here about a process. We know we haven’t got a clue how thoughts are processed in these neurons to get consciousness. And here we are talking about controlling people. Regarding patm, it’s not possible and I think it makes no sense or help us in talking about that to begin with.

“I don't have a particular stance on telepathy, but who knows, you definitely cannot say that it is not possible..”

Telepathy is science fiction at this time. We’ll have to evolve as a species to do that. Might take a few million years but with genetic engineering, maybe a few hundreds or thousands. Believe it or not, that’s one of the hardest quest in science if not the hardest.

“Neuroscience is quite a different field, maybe these two will merge at some point, but we still have a VERY-VERY long time to until that happens.”

Well neuroscience is taking center stage right now. That’s the problem. Neuroscience is doing to psychology what science did for philosophy. Philosophy is a great disciple and it was the queen of academia in past history. Science and mathematics has taken almost all of it. Philosophers now are almost jobless. You can’t get a job as a philosopher accept in university. You may have heard Prof. Hawkings going at it with philosophers around the world.

“And lastly - about neurons in the gut - tons of information online. Here is something - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-second-brain/”

Regarding that. Throughout evolution the gut has developed some form of automation differently from the brain. This has allowed it to work while you sleep etc. You need a constant supply of energy so you need to think about it. Some early species have pea size brains, and only use it for navigation to an area and then sit there eating throughout its life. Once it finds its location it eats its own small brain because it doesn’t need it anymore. The gut is automated so can do everything on its own. It basically lives eating and growing without a brain.

But please check my post again. The issue is - Leaky gut and subconscious mind. There is no paper on that. Your mind cannot make you have leaky gut. The only thing that we find right now associated with leakygut is, microbial toxins, food, gut lining diseases, digestive diseases of different origins causing leaky gut.

If you are just basing your claim on links between gut and mind, then it has no value because everything in the body is link to the brain. This would mean AIDS, malaria, Ebola, flu would be mental problem as well because everything is link to the brain. That won’t solve anything for us.

The interesting thing I’ve learnt for the past few hours is what Ray posted regarding the possibility of different genes that contributed to FMO3. That was only verified last February; it’s a recent discovery. It has many implications. I was trying to understand why Ellie James depicted symptoms of TMAU, which is basically just fishy smelling, plus all the symptoms that PATMers observe. Multiple genes? multiple hormones? That’s what we should be thinking about.
@LaserShark8
"Photons? Gravity waves?"
“I'm guessing something like that....”

The answer is no. Gravity is out of the picture, I believe you know why, it has nothing to do with this. Photons is just a particle description of light which addresses the same thing we will describe using wave concepts below. Read on.

"If you take gas out, then there’s nothing else."
“You should understand that this statement is incorrect if you have a good grasp on physics...”

Yes, I do. Just read on.

“That is a mere opinion and  not true at that, EM radiation is fact of life, though I am not saying that PATM is EM.”

No that is not an opinion, that’s a fact my friend. When biologists and doctors talk about diseases they keep it realistic. It is true that if doctors or scientists were here and heard someone say that, it would mean for them we are either crazy or don’t know what we talking about.

That’s why I said it’s impossible because Electromagnetic radiation, Gravity waves, black holes are automatically excluded in a realistic correspondence. That leaves us with only basic chemistry. If you take basic chemistry out, there’s nothing else. For someone to propose we are X-men is crazy really. That’s not keeping within the realm of realistic possibilities. What happens in the movies don’t always happen in everyday life.

“Trust me I know my physics, and I've studied it well, I might not know the math of particle physics, but I am more than familiar with the most known concepts in most areas of physics...”

Ok, first I’m sorry if I’ve offended you. Let me try again and see if you understand.

Electrons move to and fro on higher orbitals and lower orbitals, and from atom to atom. In this process they will generate a proportional electrical and magnetic waves, also known as photons, that are perpendicular to each other and right angle to the direction of moving electron(s). When that radiation travels and finally hits another matter, it will generate moving electrons again whether within atomic orbitals or a sea of current as obvious on conductors.

This is important. Here’s why. If we were generating a weird and intense form of electromagnetic radiation, the outcome would be phenomenon and as described above, it wouldn’t go unnoticed. Signals are send and received and will interfere with electrical equipments. You are bound to be setting off alarm & bells somewhere. You’d make noises on audio output devices as you pass by. You’d make noises on your mobile speakers, stereo, TV, radio, car speakers. You will also cause some noticeable electrical interference in most communication equipments you happen to come across. You’ll show a huge reading than normal on multi-meters, oscilloscopes and handheld radiation detectors such as GM. They’d pick up whatever frequency you’re generating on the electromagnetic spectrum very easily. If you have a friend at FCC, you can also ask him to scan what radiation frequency you generating because they have sophisticated equipments to scan everything on the entire spectrum but don’t be surprised because he’d probably look at you with a huge question mark on his face.

If this was the case, I’d have discovered 30 years ago because I happen to have used some of these devices.

But that’s all, any PATM that would have existed before me, which, they probably existed way back because there’s evidence TMAU existed in prehistoric times, should go through the same experience I explained above. It’ll be an X-men experience. I often don’t like talking about this because scholars deem this crazy talk.

“I'm not saying that PATM comes from the brain, it might come from a particular organism that produces PATM, but the reactions themselves are not caused by the gas and yes they do travel through walls, cars, phones.”

I know I will not convince you and I respect your beliefs but I can guarantee you this. Time will change your views as you learn and come across new things that catches you by surprise, just as I’ve learnt new things earlier today from Ray. It’s a pleasure to learn new things and it changes ones views.

“The survey I did was a private one, my own gathered statistics from about 15 PATM people I talk to often, but let's we can do one here if you want.”

Yes you can. I agree, that’s a good idea. We have the tools in our hands but sometimes we don’t use it. Someone did a survey earlier on laptops radiation. Don’t remember who it was.

Other then that I agree with everything you say, sorry I might not have read every single one of your comments in this thread initially. And I did send you the link on the gut-brain connection.

No worries, discussion makes perfect. We break boundaries by doing this.

“The problem with my 'field' theory of course is that if anyone who is dumb enough to start bringing this theory up with doctors  - you know which specialist they will send us to.”
Yes, of course…lol.
“Besides that who knows - maybe it is psychological...I can't prove it isn't”
We don’t need to my friend. MeBO has done that for us. You can trust me on this. If their experiment had showed we were crazy, they wouldn’t hesitate to nail our *****. I know how these people work.
“but for now I am definitely sticking to the microbiological theory, I think this is a bacteria of some kind.”
Yes, I’m hoping it is because if it isn’t, that leaves us with a liver enzyme problem, which is incurable without some kind of stem cell transplant. Hopefully someone can do the FMT to see how that works out.

"That’s why I said it’s impossible because Electromagnetic radiation, Gravity waves, black holes are automatically excluded in a realistic correspondence. That leaves us with only basic chemistry. If you take basic chemistry out, there’s nothing else."

Yes indeed, they are automatically excluded from a realistic correspondence and that's why I would not be bringing this up in any research I would be funding or participating in any time soon.

"For someone to propose we are X-men is crazy really. That’s not keeping within the realm of realistic possibilities. What happens in the movies don’t always happen in everyday life."

I'm replying to the above just to clarify my point of view -  I do not think we have any control of this phenomenon, and it obviously really hard to call this thing a superpower)), but I do think that some weird/exotic physics might be at play here.

"This is important. Here’s why. If we were generating a weird and intense form of electromagnetic radiation, the outcome would be phenomenon and as described above, it wouldn’t go unnoticed. "

I do not think what we are generating is EM in nature, but even that should be measured to confirm. For example Extremely Low Frequency radiation does produce some symptoms that could possibly explain PATM-like symptoms: "External ELF magnetic fields induce electric fields and currents in the body which, at very high field strengths, cause nerve and muscle stimulation and changes in nerve cell excitability in the central nervous system."

Again, I do not think it is EM. I do have some speculations of how it works, those are hardly worth talking about at all, here, at the moment, but I'll just repeat my opinion/conviction that PATM phenomenon does not work through some gas. At the very least (but not likely) I does not work only via gas.

What causes us to produce this PATM phenomenon I do not know and as everyone else here am also only guessing at this point, maybe biome, maybe enzymes, maybe neuron signals - don't know, but I very much doubt it works through chemical signalling.

Thanks for a weighted and honest response. I do not mean to highjack or side track the main conversation, if PATM is a subset of TMAU - great. One way or another let's figure out what and how and let's get rid of this thing somehow for good.
“For example Extremely Low Frequency radiation does produce some symptoms that could possibly explain PATM-like symptoms: "External ELF magnetic fields induce electric fields and currents in the body which, at very high field strengths, cause nerve and muscle stimulation and changes in nerve cell excitability in the central nervous system."

Yes, but those radiations can be measured from a distance and it’s usually large. But people don’t generate those large source of radiations.

True, the whole nervous system is electrical, this is why external electricity interferes with it when we get an electric shock.

CIA experimented with this for a long time.

“I do not think what we are generating is EM in nature, but even that should be measured to confirm. For example Extremely Low Frequency radiation does produce some symptoms that could possibly explain PATM-like symptoms”

You can try to measure if you like. Regardless how low a frequency is, it would always show up because it should cause interference in a multi-meter and definitely show up on an oscilloscope. On a multimeter, it would show up as DC voltage depending on how long the wave is. For instance, it may show up as 1 V for a few seconds then change or disappear for the next few seconds and show up again, depending on how low the frequency you have in mind, but you can’t miss it. You’d sometimes see this happening on your multimeter because of radiations from all kind of sources in the air. Since you are closer, it should generate a spectacular reading.

On an oscilloscope it would show up as a long line but suddenly move up or down on the next few seconds. Again, you can easily notice this, but then you’ll end up asking, is there enough energy in such very low frequency waves to do anything.

“Again, I do not think it is EM. I do have some speculations of how it works, those are hardly worth talking about at all, here, at the moment, but I'll just repeat my opinion/conviction that PATM phenomenon does not work through some gas. At the very least (but not likely) I does not work only via gas.”

If you take gravity, nuclear reaction, electromagnetic radiation, sound out, there’s nothing else for anything to get from one person to the another, other than normal everyday chemical interaction. That’s the problem I was trying to convey. Once we take chemistry out, we are left with nothing else to explain the interaction.

Thanks for a weighted and honest response. I do not mean to highjack or side track the main conversation, if PATM is a subset of TMAU - great. One way or another let's figure out what and how and let's get rid of this thing somehow for good.

No worries, we have side tracked but perhaps it’s good to talk to clear things up otherwise, you’ll see in the future someone will bring up the same topic. Perhaps out discussion will give them more info. Btw, thanks for sharing.
how do you think wifi routers do communicate? it's the same principle, without inteferring to much with speakers, you don't hear any noises. this radiation wouldn't need a high content of energy if the receiver is sensitive enough. As you probably know Photons are packages of different energy portions and can have different spins if you now take electromagnetic waves with the same direction(spin) you can send much information with very low energy intanke. Probably a handfull of photons would be enough at a very high level off efficiency. I don't think this would be easily detectable in addition we don't know in which area of the huge spectrum of these waves to look at. This is just speculation I have no evidence just my experience so you will probably just say again that I have to show you "objective" results and that you never will try to see patm from a perspective that isn't prooven yet.
Hey keltic, I do not think what we are dealing with here are photons, or any form of EM radiation. I and a few other people I talked to about this think it might be something different then just EM. There have been some big advances in physics recently that could, maybe, give us a hint of PATM works.

We could do a survey to see how many people observe patm over the phone and patm through walls and such, but we cannot really prove anything that way either. Sanity and objectivity of those people would be questioned too, so I doubt there is a point. FYI though a survey done by a friend some time ago on a sample of 16 people showed 50-60% of respondents giving positive replies to those two questions. We could do it here, I anyone else would be interested.

Still you need to take into account  that most people would not take this stuff seriously at all, and I do understand why dontgiveuphope does not take seriously any of your or my claims, they are quite surreal and very hard to explain by science at the moment and even if what you and I perceive is real - it still does not yet help us in getting rid of this problem.
I also think photons isn't the full answer we still have to go deeper, I just wanted to show that in principle it's not impossible that signals can go through walls and that they aren't always easy detectable
Testing for liver enzymes is not only hard to do but expensive. Screening for all the different types of microbes in the gut is extremely difficult, in fact no one in the world has done it. The total number of strains that you often see written in magazines and books are estimations. It needs a lot funding and many months of work. I’m not capable of doing any of this.

However, screening for anything on the entire spectrum regardless is easy, in fact I can easily do it without anyone’s help… but if I have to do it the quickest way, I know the right people to call because I’ve worked with them in this area. The only reason why I don’t do it is because I understand why it’s not possible for it to have anything to do with PATM. I read the discussions and I believe there’s probably some misunderstanding of how EM radiation works in real life.

For instance, when I said that it’s almost impossible to hide a type of emitted radiation regardless of frequency if we look for it, it’s a fact. It’s just not possible to hide it, and there’s multiple ways of detecting it. If you mention this claim of mine to any employee in FCC or a similar organization, they’d agree. FCC’s job is screen and know anything on the entire electromagnetic spectrum. The spectrum is a highway and they must know everything on it to tax and control. Message is a different thing.

Also, note that there are reasons why biological systems haven’t used communication systems below infrared, it’s based on two obvious facts. To use frequencies below, biological systems will need really good receptors like that made from pure metals and it’s not easy to do this purification process without a furnace. The other has to do with using most abundant frequencies more efficiently. The intensity of the different light bands that reaches earth has an almost a normal distribution with the visible colors within SD. By evolution we chose to use the most abundance frequencies (visible light).

@keltic you asked how WIFI works. All wireless (without wires) communications systems, regardless what they are i.e. satellite, Wi-Fi, WiMAX, radio, TV, mobile, Bluetooth, infrared etc. communicate the same way. The only difference is the frequency used. Protocols is just the rules/format of how messages are organized but it has no effect on the signal. Wi-Fi uses several channels and can use it manual of automatic switching among the channels. This just means, there’s a band, and smaller chopped up bands inside it called channels. More like wires within a big wire.

The different frequencies have different properties. For instance, X-ray can go through flesh but reflected by bones. Microwave and Wi-Fi get absorbed easily by water/moisture so can cook our food easily and at the same time can’t get across most terrain because of water moisture from trees. This is why you see parabolic Wi-Fi and microwave antennas on towers needing line-of-sight to other communication antennas on other towers. Longwave needs huge antennas because of the huge wavelengths involved but can travel across the world because large wavelengths get reflected easily back and forth by the atmosphere and earth surface.
like I said I also think photons isn't the full answer it's just the principle that signals can be transfered through walls because even this is hard to understand for several people. Besides photons are rasing on questions like you see in many experiments.
@keltic
“.. it's just the principle that signals can be transfered through walls…”

OK I see our point, but what do you mean by principle? Can you please explain what you by that?

“Besides photons are rasing on questions like you see in many experiments.”

Can you please name one experiment you’re referring to so I can keep track of what you’re talking about? Or please refer me to a paper at least?

Anyway, let me make this part clear because I think I didn’t explain it enough. Wave-particular duality explains the same thing about light. The reason is because light is not something that we know intuitively. It’s like as if we’ve never seen a hermaphrodite human being before and when for the first time we come across it, we call it a male-female person. To us, it’s not a male or a female, the only possibility that we knew before, but now we have a male-female gender.

Photons explains the particle part because light is viewed to be made up of discrete quanta units t. EM waves describe the wave part properties. However, detecting light itself, (wave or particle) is easy. It’s not rocket science, as I’ve explained on top. It doesn’t matter how the waves/particles are generated or used, once radiated, it will be detected.

If it didn’t, we wouldn’t have faith on FCC, nor other countries like Russia rely on their own spectrum regulators. I know a lot of sci-fi movies presuppose your idea but it’s not true. If it was true that we couldn’t easily detect matter or energy, then quantum mechanics and General relativity could easily fall apart especially the big bang idea itself. Big bang theory suggests that all the matter and energy started from the singularity. Over time the unity has somehow diverged into the different things (4 fundamental forces) that we are aware of, including light and atoms of today.

Different frequencies of light itself is directly tight to the vibration of the electrons themselves. The frequencies depend on those vibrations. Remember the electrons must move (vibrate) back and forth to generate those waves/photons outwards. Without moving electrons, we can’t generate light or EM (photons/waves). Yes, if the electrons were immobile, there wouldn’t be any EM at all.

This is how scientists know the chemistry of all the stars, including the sun, and also know when they were born and predicted time of death (supernova etc). It’s because each atom has a known frequency(color) of light when heated, because the electrons rate of vibration is known. If we didn’t understand the EM spectrum itself then we wouldn’t know chemistry today because they are compatible to each other.

There are experiments like the famous double slit experiment which is not to explain EM that we already know but to explain the different phenomenon in quantum mechanics. Things like the principle of uncertainty or multiple histories concept. Those experiments have no bearing on our ability to detect bands on the EM spectrum.

Sorry I misspelled "particle", I put particular..lol.
I wish they'd allow us to edit out posts in the future...let's say for a day before becoming permanent.
Hey dontgiveuphope, thanks for the introduction into wave-field theory for everyone reading this.

No-one has yet tried to measure any of the possible EM frequencies that we (our PATM) might or might not be emitting. Since we are talking about EM - lookup Bill Doyle's TED speech where he talks about treating cancer with electric fields, I'm mentioning this just as an example of how low level electric fields can have dramatic effect on organic matter, just as an example. But again - I do not think what we are observing here is an effect of EM radiation, look more at quantum uncertainty principles, quantum observer phenomenon, quantum information transfer, and read up about the latest research and experiments in that field. I am not saying I am sure that this is how PATM works, I obviously can't prove anything, but this is the explanation that seems to fit the bill well for me and a few others I’ve talked to.  Again - about 50-60% observe PATM over the phone, through walls etc.
Thanks LaserShark8, thanks for this because I’ve never come across this method used on cancer. Had family members lost to cancer and I wish I had come across this a few years ago. I appreciate this.

Anyway, EF is not EM. This is actually using charges. If this is the new suggestion, then we should expect a type magnetism involved with PATM if this is the case. I’ve never observed this but perhaps other PATMers can check for themselves. Expect metal objects or iron filling to be attracted or stick to the fingers, feet etc. where the source of PATM is. There’s nothing wrong with testing and verifying because anything can happen.

The more I think about the cancer treatment, the more regrets I have. Too bad I was studying at the time as I couldn’t pull off to help family members because I’d lose the scholarship. Thanks for this info @LaserShark8. At least I know this now.
@LaserShark8
"  Again - about 50-60% observe PATM over the phone, through walls etc."

Hi Lasershark8, I've made the survey so we can know for sure what our forum is thinking. Btw, thanks for the cancer treatment information, I wish we had this conversation years ago. It could have saved lives.
@ray2502
Hey ray, I think this study is the evidence you’ve been searching for - why you experienced the disappearance of PATM upon overdosing on Vitamin D. It appears Vitamin D plays an important role in maintaining the integrity of the intestinal mucosal barrier (gut). There’s another paper which proves it also increases the innate immunity at the gut, I think by helping to increase IgA. There are papers where Vitamin D is used with other vitamins work together with some probiotics to increase immunity.

http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/294/1/G208.short

I’ve searched quite a bit about Vitamin D. Many researchers think that 4,000 IU a day is the healthy limit so anything above that is likely toxic to the liver. Regardless what’s the real limit, this is important because it implies the site of PATM is at the gut, not the liver. Vitamin D is beneficial to the gut but potential toxic to the liver.

Coffee is among the medicines used to treat liver diseases such as Cirrhosis but very bad for GI problems as it irritates the gut. As we’ve discovered it’s very bad for PATM too.

This is more evidence that PATM occurs at the gut itself and not the liver.

If you can’t access the paper then let me know since I’m using a university access privileges and wouldn’t show whether it’s paid content, if it is, since they’re paying for many sites that contain academic journals, not me. We access and download or read without knowing until we get home and try to access the same material again by an unauthorized computer. If you can’t, I can download the paper and upload somewhere else. Perhaps all the papers I’ve added links to are probably not showing either, I wouldn’t know.

The purpose of the survey I made a few days earlier was to narrow this down and build more evidence. I know at least 5 PATMs with family history digestive problems such IBD – CD and ulcer, diverticulitis but building statistics on 5 members is not viable.

Thanks for the Vitamin D information, I had to really dig deep to find out why because I knew you wouldn’t lie so there had to be an explanation.
@ray2502
I think when you reported that your doctor helped raise IgA level by vaccine shots or something, while it didn’t help with your PATM immediately, it still contributed in a way. Because anything that helps maintain gut permeability i.e. seal tight junction proteins etc., and help the innate immunity i.e. IgA and immune cells at the gut, will help to lower PATM.
Avatar universal
I see the pattern almost every person in this forum suffering PATM care about other too much (including my self).That is the cause for PATM too,I have become a little selfish and think about my self more for my own good and others and PATM is vanishing..
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yes i've made the same experience as our subcounsciousness was like: **** i had enough of this crazy world, now everyone will get to know what it means to be nudged psychologically or we are just sick who knows
Avatar universal
so what is the cure? Do people feel u thinking about it or I don't know, its horrible and I need help asap plz with the right response what do I do? What did helped u the most or within 4 days???
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Avatar universal
I feel bad for all of us, there are more than two types of this crap. One type is the oder type, think this is some type of intestinAL problem. And the other type from metals. I'm a plumber and exposed to metal dust from lead,cast iron to my full back tattoos of black ink.
Witch has metals. Creating a positive or negitive ion release
The opposite charge of a normal balance and feel the release of this crap and when it comes to nickel, the doctors are now reconizing people are alergic to certain metals in electronics ect. When doctors test for metals in blood, they are absent,  because the metals leave the bloodstream and enter your muscles and fatty tissue as well as your skin. A skin by op
Is the key to see what's really going on. I believe a drip set up with iv might be the cure. They use this on lead poisoning.
Gonna get a doctor soon to do this. Tired of this crap. Also our water and cigarettes have heavy metals In them. These metals can actually get in your brain and using cell phones and electronics just keep the cycle in morion. I'm not a doctor be I have this crap and people say they have a cure but that is crap also. Had this **** years ago, was in jail for two weeks and went away on its own. Foods different, no smoking, no electronics or sun radiation.
Thinking the medical field dont want to touch this because the cure is to simple, and there no money to make curing this crap, but let us keep going to the doctors and paying bills for no answer. Next time I go I'm damaging what I want them to do.
Good luck and stay away from home remedies in this site, might be dangerous ***@****
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Avatar universal
you are trying to tell us patm is in our heart right, you might be right but i guess somewhere somehow there is something wrong in our blood, thn we make it worse by overthinking.
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Think it's metals, because I tried probiotics and all that. And I don't make people cough as much as itch. Nor do I have any smell. And when the doctors test for metals well it in my muscles and skin trying to release, in positive or negitive ion form. And I am sensitive to electronics and florescent light. When I'm in wall mart the effects are to much. I am like a magnet and what I got keeps repeating itself because of constant exposer to something wich keeps this damb thing going.
I am going to talk to a doctor about getting iv to detoxify all the metals out of my body.
This **** *****, don't want to meet anyone or do anything because of this.
With all this DNA technology you would think one test and get an answer. But really think they don't want you cured unless you see all the docs and are broke from paying them for no answers.
Anyhow probiotics ain't working for me. People be like I got the cure, well them folks are just lucky because it went away on its own. I had this back in 2012 for 4 months. Went away on its own. After two weeks in jail. Only difference in jail was, the food, no electronics and no smoking and no sun.
All have some type of metal or radiation in them. Just like this cell ph where my hands and face itch while I type this.
Anyhow this crap is exhausting and it's physical not mentally.
Share any real dicoveries in this crap. Thanks
Avatar universal
Oops I also wanted to add that I do have Post Nasal Drip and allergies where I blow my nose and sneeze everyday so maybe I am reacting to myself too????
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I hand post nasal  drip as well. Cough and sneeze here and there but not much.
Avatar universal
Oh and I forgot to say I have started to make my own Kombucha and drink that everyday which is suppose to be a good probiotic and good for the gut.
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Avatar universal
Just a little about myself and some thoughts on PATM. I am a female in my late 50's and have had PATM for 10 years or more on and off. It does seem to be worse when I drink alcohol a lot and am stressed.
It seems to have gotten worse as I have now even seen people around me when I am not in a closed room outside start rubbing their noses,eyes, sneezing and sniffling but no one really coughs. My friend that never seemed to react to me now gets really itchy eyes and nose and sneezes every time we get together. I can't have a relationship as anyone I date ends up having alergic reactions around me and either never calls again or I run away from the relationship so I don't have to explain and sound crazy telling them that I have PATM.
It is funny though that some people seem to have worse alergic reactions to me than others so not sure why that is?
I usually try to stop drinking for a day or two before flying and take a sedative or some sort to calm me down. If I don't the flight is hell with so many people around me constantly sniffling and violently sneezing for the whole trip.
I hate going to the Dentist or Doctor but I did have to go to the Dentist as I needed a root canal and a crown and find if the Dentist wears a mask they don't have reactions so I think it must be airborne. I have so much going on against me right now that I am so depressed with PATM, severe hot flashes every 20 minutes from Menopause and a drinking problem so I have turned into a recluse and hate leaving my home.
I have noticed that I do have a white coating on my tongue and have tried to get rid of it by using a tongue scraper after brushing my teeth but that doesn't do much. I have a suspicion that it is a Candida thing as I also get nail fungus all the time but that may be because my feet sweat, who knows?
As of yesterday I am at my wits end and am really, really trying to cut out alcohol and sugars and try and get healthy by exercising too. I have read quite a bit here and do take 1000 UI of Vit D3 but have just upped it to 2000 UI. I also have been prescribed an anti depression/anxiety drug that I hope will help me deal with my, sweating social anxiety and this PATM thing.
I really hope we can get some Cure to this debilitating problem we all share as I just cannot live like this!!!!
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I'm going through the same thing. I'm a 25 year old female and just had a baby six months ago. I've noticed this reaction from people a few months before my pregnancy. I've noticed that I have actual heat coming from my nostrils, it makes my body hot feels like hot flashes on my upper body, back of my neck,and all down my back. The heat coming from my nostrils also makes my body itch.I'm constantly sneezing, coughing, and clearing my throat and so does everyone else.
Avatar universal
Have you guys experienced the dirty looks or some kind of acknowledgement from others regarding your patm? I see other members post where this is the main factor that seems to devastate them. It is also my case, but it doesn't seem everybody has experirnced it this way. Sometimes its a nasty look while other times its a friendly benevolent smile followed by a nod. I've noticed the smiles are more frequent with older people.
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17489628 tn?1458796338
i have not tried that Sakir.  I felt like this was some underlying problem that was gonna take something serious to get rid of it, but then again it could b a simple remedy that we have not tried. How are you doing now?? Any PATM symptoms since you have tried that soap?
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Hi Dj_Choppa. I believe my symptomps are dramatically reduced after using argan oil soap as this soap has antioxidant and antibacterial impact. But as I said maybe I am mistaken as I do not have the possibility to smell my own self like a third person does. This soap is not too expensive. You could try for both your body and your hair and see if it is working.
You're just trying to sell a product. This is "issue" no Power , is from the soul.A simple soap wont fix the problem. Fix the way you think
You're just trying to sell a product. This is "issue" no Power , is from the soul.A simple soap wont fix the problem. Fix the way you think
how is he selling a product when he didn't even mention any specific brand lol
Avatar universal
As ı have not received any reply, I would like to ask have you ever tried argan oil soap both for your hair and your body. I am repeating this question, because after trying many things without success, argan oil soap might have cured my PATM. But, I am not %100 sure.
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17489628 tn?1458796338
In all fairness though, i cannot ignore the fact that being happy and truly feeling at peace could very well be part of the solution, as i notice my PATM seems worse when im nervous. BUT, there is also the scientific side to this i believe.  Incorporating the best practices of both these worlds im sure is are best bet for now.

I am my own ginny pig and will continue to be for the next yr probably as i continue researching and trying different solutions.
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17489628 tn?1458796338
Yessss, an imbalance in your glands in the endocrine system, like a hormonal imbalance, or the waste that is caused by different parasites and bacteria. I noticed that my tongue has a thicker white coating than it ever has before, and it got this way soon as my PATM got worse.  White coating is caused by bacteria and also by candida overgrowth.  These are all things that i am working on and marking off the list.  There are just many things that could be causing this, but as long as there are options and possibilities, i will try them all.
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Do you experince that your tonsil always produce phlegm??
I also have white coat  on  my  tongue and most likely hormone inbalance and also have feeling that something  is stuck  in my throat. I am seeing ENT in August for my throat.
17489628 tn?1458796338
By what i have witnessed so far, I agree w you Keltic.  I am 2 weeks new to this world, and im observing EVERYTHING.  My family is always saying u never make us cough!?  I didnt bother saying, but my immediate educated guess was that its probably cuz they were always around me.  On the other hand, i am making ppl at work cough life crazy, being that i work with new ppl everyday.  Also, im not nervous when im at my house.  On my way to work i get more nervous the closer i get.
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Chupapa were closely the same..... why we get nervous when we deal with our friends??
17489628 tn?1458796338
Yall are talking about energy and chakras and stuff.  If I meditate and focus on my inner energy, am i going to be able to shoot lightning from my hands soon, or am i on the path to having telekinetic powers?? Like, wth is goin on here!!??  

I just have a lot goin through my mind, sorry for all the long comments, hope yall understand.  

Is this a candida thing maybe?? Im tired of vegetables and really wanna order a pizza tomorrow w my sis.  

I have never needed to consult w others when i felt down. I have always been self reliant and good at cheering myself up, thats what music is for, but this is something i was not prepared for.  I feel like i would be better off w cancer cuz at least it is known, and u have a shot of beating it.  PATM is just one big mystery that will probably never be solved...at least not in my lifetime.  If it is, it wont be by doctors, itll be by people like us.
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Yess...i agree with i would rather want a high fever than this patm..we all just guessing here....if i go try diet cleansing and detox... the patm become worst..my god help us.
17489628 tn?1458796338
I'm hoping to make a few friends on here that I can have for support cuz this is so unreal to me right now and im in a state of shock.  Everyday at work now is rough, especially when i have to go to my meetings blahhhhh.  I am going to be working from home soon, so that will help while im trying all these remedies. I just need to make it long enough w/out getting fired lol.

So please, reach out to me if ya can, i just want ppl who understand me cuz my family thinks im crazy now.  My sis told me to prove it to her, so tomorrow we are goin out n about, and I hope for some dumb reason the PATM switch doesnt get turned off.  Maybe cuz she will be next to me i might feel more comfortable and therefore not have the reactions i want her to see?  Idk, but if it goes like today, she will definitely be a believer.
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17489628 tn?1458796338
Whats up yall, I just came to realization that I have PATM as of 2 weeks ago.  As of 2 days ago I didnt even know there was a name for it.  I know it was made up by people like us and not by professionals, but still it has a name.  I am finding more and more relief w this forum.  Seems like the more tenured ppl with PATM are depending now on more spiritual type remedies and inner peace and all that, and the other folks are busting their butts trying to find scientific explanations and cures.

I couldn't have asked for a better life. I have a great paying job, tons of friends, and i get to practice my greatest quality everyday at work, my ability to socialize w dozens of new ppl everyday and network.

I am truly devastated now.  I talk to nobody but family, and a handful of friends.  I'm walking on eggshells at work cuz my adherence has declined dramatically.  People everyday come to me w smiles, notice i am not really in the mood to talk, and just end up walking back to where they came from

Today was the worse day at work for me ever.  I walked many long halls where hundreds of ppl are, and put this PATM to the test.  I couldn't believe that this ridiculous PATM is real.  I was shocked to see that numerous ppl, all at once, started coughing.  This was happening even up to 30-35 ft away instantly.  Bad breath doesn't travel that fast.  So i figure it has to be something else.  Like others claim in this community, It seems to be worse when you are nervous.  

Im not ready to run w this spiritual thing quite yet.  I feel like I owe it to myself to try as hard as i can to get my life back to normal.  I have put in hrs of research, and have packages of probiotics, supplements, i have already cleansed my intestines and liver and am currently doing 2 candida cleanses, cut out all sugars, grains, dairy, alcohol, carbs and processed foods.  I have lost 20 pounds in 3 weeks.  I will be trying a dewormer that was suggested soon.  I have noticed that my skin has cleared up, no more muscle spasms, no more flakey dry skin on my face, and other things that are showing good signs.  Today though, it was terrible.  

Its weird though how this problem seems to thrive off of certain emotions, especially nervousness.  Today when i would walk in a room, i could feel my energy sweep through the whole frickin room, and bam, there came the coughs.  I walked by this sexy lady comin down the escalator, i knew she would feel my funk, as i could feel this energy or vibe just fly through her.  Yep, she started coughing instantly.  

Man has my life changed, im just not sure how this is going to pan out.
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Avatar universal
have any of you guys tried argan oil soap both for your body and hair? This might be working. Please try it and share your experience with us here. It is not an expensive soap, worth a try.
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