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639543 tn?1297027634

Any suggestions - infantile fractures??

As most of you know, Dameon has 8 broken bones, unexplained, and as of right now it's being called child abuse. Two doctors believe it's absolutely child abuse, two other doctors believe it could be OI, but also think he's not a classic case, well, DH, my mother and I know it's absolutely not child abuse, so it's up to me to find out what's wrong with my son, since none of the doctors will, as they just ASSUME it's child abuse. I need to know absolutely ANY bone disease in infants that could cause multiple fractures, or for bones to easily break. Right now Dameon is being tested for hypophosphatasia, leukemia, and osteogenesis imperfecta, any other suggestions, so I can do more research, and have Dameon tested for absolutely every possibility. Thanks in advance!
33 Responses
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1172446 tn?1263524644
I just posted a comment to your questions regarding the unexplained breaks in infants.   It does sound alot like Osteogenesis Imperfecta. And judging from the amount of breaks it sounds like a type III, the more severe form of the disease, easy bruising is also a sign as my mom had this.  Get in contact with the OI foundation and have them recommend a pediatric orthopaedist who is knowledgable in OI  in your area. Oh and get the test done to see if there are abnormalities on the genes that produce collagen, mainly the COL1ANA, and the COL2ANA I believe are the genes, there are also 2 more genes that are affected with the more severe forms but I dont know them offhand,  Research into OI has come a long way in the last 10 years.   They know what kinds of tests to be done and can help you with your case.  Do either of you have relatives with histories of breaking bones?  If you do you might also have them tested, if not, it could be spontaneous.  The only reason I posted more than once to your dilemma is because I have also been thru this, And my whole family has it.  My grandmother wrote all my mothers breaks in the bible, and my mother wrote all of mine in the same bible and I did the same for my son.  It becomes a legal record my mom said.  Between us, we have had over 300+ breaks.  I wish the best of luck to you and will be checking for you to try and help. Oh, and the movie "Unbreakable" is fictitious it doesn't happen like that. , Most people with OI can't even run down the steps , let alone walk without some kind of assistance.  Just thought you would want to know because of the above reference...Don't give up the fight and don't let them get you down, I was there too.
Helpful - 0
1035252 tn?1427227833
Kim the first thing I would do is start keeping a journal, written or recorded, detailing EVERYTHING you do with him. "I picked him up under his arms, then held him to my chest to transfer him to the changing table" "I lifted his leg by the ankle to change his diaper" and start noticing when/if the bruises and sensitivities coincide with that. I know you said no more fractures since you've been more careful, but maybe if you can start drawing clearer lines between NORMAL and GENTLE activities and your son's ailments, your case worker can help you prove to the courts that there's something else going on. I can totally understand why someone would suggest that you keep your eyes open; I was being molested by a family member for years when I was a baby and when his mom found out she swore "no he couldn't hurt her" well guess what he did. Her own beloved son, DNA proof and a witness later. So I can understand why CYW said to keep your eyes open, and if you are then you're all good. I would have them write down/record all of their activities too, and if there's a gap in the list of activities such as 9AM: "tickled Daemon for 5 minutes" and then there's nothing until 11:30AM:"Fed bottle, 6 oz" or something, you need to figure out what happened during the gap. A nap? alright, fine, write it down. If a bruise starts to appear during an expected period after that "gap" you might start questioning. Otherwise, you're doing the right thing. Getting all the tests, working WITH your case worker (too many people work against them, not realizing that they're just trying to solve the problem) and you're providing a strong front with your DH and mom against the court system. Keep it up, and I really hope you figure out what's wrong, sounds like OI to me! Good luck dear, hope your little one gets better.
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639543 tn?1297027634
Rosa - Thank you so much, I need some positive reassurance haha! :]
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376148 tn?1309899577
kim im so sorry you are having to go through this!   I can see y cyw is saying that theres always a possibility but i also see how this can be a very touchy subject for you as well...if i was in your sitch i would def be backing up my mother and my dh! If you have no reason to think that you mother or dh would do such a thing then i think you are doing the right thing! I know for a fact that you would never keep your son in this household or near them if you thought anything was happening to him from others and i dont even know you...i just know being a mother i would never let ANYBODY hurt any of my childern! I feel for your poor little boy and that pain he must be endurning! I also feel for your family for having to go through this...its a hard thing to deal with...not actually knowing what is going on until a doctor makes a diagnosios! (sorry spelling) My heart goes out to you..please if you need to talk or vent feel free to msg me! :) Good luck with everything....but know this...the people that read this are all going to have different opinions anyways because there only on another side of a screen they can only see what they think may be going on..so as touchy as the subject is....try to understand that most comments your prob not going to want to hear! Thats happens alot on here so the ones you dont want to read...DONT and im sure you will feel alot better!! :)
Helpful - 0
639543 tn?1297027634
I'm aware that there's always a possibility, and don't think I haven't reemed my DH AND my mother, but the reality is, I picked my son up at 10PM after work, and his arm was working perfectly fine (from what I remember, but I'm 99.9% sure it was fine), and we got Dameon home, I took him out of his carseat, and he slept until 5AM, when I fed him, changed him, he fell back asleep and when we woke up around 9:30, it wasn't moving at all. I'm just so confused and flustered. We're making an appt. with the bone density scan tech for HOPEFULLY next week or the week after to get some answers. Sorry I flipped CYW, just a very touchy subject with me, as I'm sure you're aware.
Helpful - 0
202436 tn?1326474333
Kim, I can understand why you got upset with CYW's post, but being an outsider here and having read it, I believe she was merely trying to make sure you were seeing things outside of the box, so to speak.  

I understand this is a very touchy subject, but i dont' think ANYONE here is accusing you or your husband or mother of anything....merely saying that there is ALWAYS the POSSIBILITY.  
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172826 tn?1423422956
CYW
That's good to hear, I wish you the best of luck...I really do hope you find some answers, i didn't mean to come off sounding so harsh , I know sometimes it happens and no one would ever want to think someone as close would hurt their baby so i didn't want you to be blind sighted by all of this. good luck!
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639543 tn?1297027634
CYW - I AM open to all possibilites trust me, but I'm very very very confident when I say I don't believe anyone would EVER hurt my son. And NO that "bruise" on his head turned out to be a bunch of veins in Dameon's head, because I took him to the ped. and she pointed out the exact same thing on the back of his head. OF COURSE I'm going to stick up for my son over my mother and my husband, I care way more about his safety than I do their reputations, and I would NOT tolerate Dameon getting hurt in ANY way shape or form. The bruises Dameon had were SMALL and they were where I changed his diaper (on his legs where I lifted them up), and on top of it all he's mild anemic so OBVIOUSLY he's going to bruise easily. Being mild anemic, he would have MASSIVE BRUISES from abuse enough to break a babies bones that I WOULD HAVE NOTICED. The fact IS, that we found out Dameon is WAY more fragile than normal infants, and we've handled him MUCH more carefully, THAT is why he has no new fractures, and NO test result has come back negative but leukemia and hypophosphatasia, that they just wanted to make sure he didn't have. He ALSO had an MRI to make sure he didn't have SBS, and HE DIDN'T. We talked to one of the best specialists in NYS with my caseworker about the markers of child abuse vs. a disease, and he believes it's a disease because he has NO markers of child abuse. So comments like the ones you are making are NOT necessary, I OBVIOUSLY am doing what I can to keep my son safe, AS IS my mother and my husband, don't make me out to be completely oblivious, my son would have to have had MASSIVE BRUISES all over his body with 9 BROKEN BONES, if he had the bones of a normal infant.
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202436 tn?1326474333
I see where CYW is coming from.  While Kim may not personally be hurting that baby, you can NEVER know 100% for sure that someone else isn't doing it.  This is a very tricky situation for everyone involved.  BUT I think at this point one of the most important things to remember is that he has not gotten any new injuries.  That poor little boy has already been through hell, bruises, broken bones, numerous tests.  So if he is not sustaining any new injuries at this point, progress HAS been made.  Now the question remains...HOW and/or WHO?  There have been uncountable number of cases where someone insists that "so and so" would NEVER hurt their child/grandchild and it turns out that "so and so" really is.  I honestly and truly hope this is not the case but like CYW said THERE IS the possibility.  

If this turns out to be some disease or something causing it and no abuse was involved then yes it really really ***** that they had to be drug through all of this ...BUT... as a parent I would much rather know that everyone had my CHILD'S best interests in mind and didn't just turn the other cheek.  
Helpful - 0
933846 tn?1353452448
Wow this is hard. I would say please continue to run all the test possible to find out if there is anything medical wrong with the baby. Then on the other hand I wouldnt keep my eye off of my baby. Especially when I 1st learned of the broken bones. I would only want to change the diapers, watch him or even feed him. I know that easier said then done but I would only want to protect my son and I mean from husband, mom or Mother in law. Like CYW and Sarah said you can only know that you have or havent been abusing your son. You can't speak for anyone else. People are cruel in this world and its especially hard to think that someone so close to you would do such a thing but its possible.

I'm so sorry you are going thru this.
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172826 tn?1423422956
CYW
and another thing...who is to say that nothing has been going on when none of us are even there...even when kim isnt there you never know.. how often do you hear of people harming their own babies...or a close friend or a family member.. the fact of the matter is it is still a possibility...
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172826 tn?1423422956
CYW
it isnt the fact of placing blame it is the fact of finding out...the facts are there or so according to the facts this is the result...if my child had broken bones and since he was no longer residing with me he had no new ones...hmmm it would surely make me wonder
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525485 tn?1314361301
Wow...thats all I can say. I have nothing to say except...No one knows the story and I think that its best not to place blame.
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1072551 tn?1258203266
I agree with CYW to a point. You should keep you mind open. A lot of people never suspected someone they loved was abusing their child and it turns out they were. You may think that these people would NEVER hurt your son but if they have been alone with him there is always a possibility.
Helpful - 0
172826 tn?1423422956
CYW
well first things first, it is understandable as to WHY the doctorS, not just 1 or 2 but many AS well as a judge would suspect child abuse because remember when you first posted, I pointed out the same exact thing. Now you may think what you want to think and you might bite my head off for it BUT look at the facts...Your DS has been staying with your sister or your aunt(i cannot remember) has he not gotten any new fractures or bruises since not being ALONE with any of you, your hubby or your mother says something...at least to me...YOU yourself may not be hurting this child, maybe you are. Your mother may be the one hurting him, i would HATE for this to be true because she is your mother and wow if my mom hurt my baby i would be livid...and then there's your hubby...See you may not want to believe it and maybe your son has a disorder, but in all reality IF all these tests are coming back negative then to me it would be abuse. Please do not be blind at this, this is your child's safety. And in all honesty, we are all on the internet and it's easy, very easy for someone to lie or say something when it isn't true. And on top of all of this you say your son had no outside trauma like bruises to suspect abuse...Even before all these broken bones when you came on here saying he had a large bruised lump on his head...TO ME that says someone shook him or bangged him on something.. you even had said he had rolled off the couch when with dh a few weeks prior, the bruise wouldnt have been of that. I really hope you get an answer but please please please do not go in this defending everyone else.. you defend yourself and yourself only for that child....because in all honesty.. you don't know whether your mother or dh was hurting him.. you were not there.. and i bet you anything whether you will admit it or not..someone was hurting this innocent little baby...I've mentioned it from the start but please for the safety of your child if you havent hurt him and you are sure of that, do not and i repeat do NOT defend anyone else because you simply do NOT KNOW!!! Good luck girl...
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568659 tn?1256139982
I am so sorry Kim, I cant believe you are still having to go through this. You are all in my prayers.
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Avatar universal
OMG this is ridiculous, how can they do this to you and get away with it. I am 100% in agreement with losingmymindinga. I'm so sorry Hun you are in my prayers as well is Dameon and your family.
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202436 tn?1326474333
Ya know it just really P-I-S-S-E-S me off that the people who actually DO care about their kids are put through hell...have their reputations drug through the mud.  Yet those who treat their kids like sh*t get away with it.

Example...I was at the peds office a few weeks ago...this woman was screaming at her son (who was obviously sick) telling him to SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP...she kept smacking him, then she takes him in the bathroom and you can HEAR the slaps/smacks in the waiting room....do you think anyone at that peds office called the police?  Of course not.  Now *I* feel like completely **** for not doing it myself but I was dealing with my own sick kids and I guess I figured...hey this is a doctors office, they are required by law to report child abuse...yeah RIGHT.  

People like her get away with beating the hell outta their kids who in turn become thugs, murderers, rapists etc becuase they have so much pent up anger...

Then there are people like that couple who took completely innocent pictures of their young girls taking baths and wrapped in towels....like practically every parent in the world does.  Well some dumb twit at the walmart photo center thought they resembled child porn and reported them.  The woman was suspended from her teaching job for a year, they had to register as sex offenders and their kids were taken for a month.  

The human race is really going to h-e-l-l in a handbasket...no wait...we lost the handbasket long ago..it was slowing us down.  


Sorry...just a vent...it just really angers me to see people who LOVE Their children be unjustly accused of things while those who OBVIOUSLY commit these offenses can blatantly do it in public and no one says a word.  
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639543 tn?1297027634
Court went HORRIBLE, since Dameon has no new fractures (OBVIOUSLY, because now we know to handle him MUCH more carefully, so we don't break any new bones) it's pretty much 100% pointing at child abuse in the judge's eyes, so we just have to wait for the test results.

KeyD - I don't know, but I should definitely be on it, haha! My poor baby!
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Avatar universal
what a horrible situation. I too agree that it sounds like there is really something wrong with Dameon. I hope you find the answer. I am glad to hear that they are testing him to find out what is wrong. Does that show on TLC/Discovery Health "mystery diagnosis" have a web site?
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624083 tn?1369314263
How did Court go? I hope things are looking up for you!!! It's awful!!!
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435139 tn?1255460391
Soooo, how did court go?  Did they order an 'investigation'?  Another medical opinion?
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639543 tn?1297027634
The thing is though, Dameon has had NO other signs of abuse, I know DH, my mother and I (all who are being accused of abuse) would NEVER hurt Dameon. I asked Dameon's ped. why Dameon bruised/cried in pain when I picked him up under the armpits, or lifted his legs to change his diaper, they said he bruised easily (turns out he's mild anemic - a symptom of osteogenesis imperfecta/brittle bone disease), and that he didn't like being held under the armpits (turns out he has a bunch of broken bones). I have taken Dameon about a total of 7-10 times to the ped. between the first two months of his life, at these appointments he had the broken bones, but no one knew about them, because there was NO external trauma. If anyone was breaking Dameon's bones, he would have massive bruises, because it SHOULD take a lot of force to break a babies bones, if it's a normal baby with normal bones. When Dameon stopped using his arm, we assumed it was asleep (because we had just woken up), or dislocated, for the simple fact that there was absolutely NO bruises/anything wrong with his arm, his arm looked perfectly normal, it was just not working. It just doesn't make sense to me, it DOES cross my mind once in a while, could someone have really hurt my son? But then I think, absolutely not, because there would be outward signs. ALSO, Dameon had an MRI done, and it came back completely normal. I'm just so frustrated, and so upset, I feel completely numb to everything.
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1039620 tn?1272594004
I knew it had another name, but as I was typing I couldn't think of it. :)
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