How to deal with someone with avoidant personality disorder?

[Bipolar108]

I had a 7 months online relationship with a guy who suffers from avoidant personality disorder. We used to talk for 4 hours every single day and knew each other deeply. He broke up with me when we were about to meet in person. I forced the issue and when we met he had a panic attack. He is a virgin, and even though I am sure he loved me, I could understand how limiting his disorder is.
It’s been 2 years since we broke up, and I haven’t seen him since.
Lately we exchanged some emails and we will be having a video call on Sunday.
He still feels guilt for having let me down and fears being completely inadequate for romantic relationships. He is still a virgin. I don’t think he has stopped loving me. He just doesn’t know how to deal with these feelings. At present he is 25 years old, and I know if I don’t help him, he will never be able to have a healthy sexual and romantic life. I love him deeply and want to help him.
How can I not scare the hell out of him? How can I help someone who suffers from avoidant personality disorder?

[Londres70]

Ditto SM and CML2014.............wise words indeed.

All the best.

[CML2014]

.......and so it is! You are what is important and you need to resolve these feeling with your therapist. Sometimes people just have to do something regardless of what others feel because it IS, after all, their life .

I am a recovering alcoholic and if 100 people told me to stop drinking, even if I knew they might be right, I would not have stopped until I was ready.

You were determined to have this call , no one was going to talk you out of it........and so it was to be what it was to be. Painful as it was , you had to do it for your own self......now perhaps you will be ready to move on and begin to heal. At least you know you did HELP this man!

That is my wish for you and please continue your therapy ---the clouds may yet clear for you. This was a very painful learning experience , but on you needed to experience---a sort of cleansing.

God Bless you, Bipolar
I wish you all the best
CML

[Bipolar108]

In case anyone is curious, we had the call yesterday. He started by saying it would be our last contact because he can’t bear so much drama. He showed many signs of panic. It was very painful for me to realize I can cause him so much distress. Despite that, he said I have helped him, and he hopes someday he can have a healthy relationship with someone. It was a relief to know that I didn’t discourage him to pursue happiness.
The effect this call had on me was devastating, though. I feel quite pathetic, and just want to withdraw, so I apologize in advance if I don’t reply comments that might be given by you. I thank you all for the advice.

[specialmom]

I just believe sometimes people can be their own worst enemies and set themselves up for unhappiness.  Like chains that bind us . . .   we do the same things over and over again.  I would not imagine any therapist would think this union to be something advantageous to either of the people involved.  It caused damage in the past to the point that she was hospitalized.   A therapist generally tries to help people move past detrimental situations in their life and one that has potential danger to our mental health as this 'relationship' did for both parties.  

I feel such compassion for bipolar, the poster.  I can only imagine years of feeling disconnected to the world so that an internet friendship feels so real and meaningful.  She wants more.  But this was safe.  And since it ended, it has still been impossible to continue growth in connections elsewhere.  She wants love in her life.  I don't blame her and wish that for her with my whole heart.  But moving backwards with someone with significant intimacy issues is not helping her to have this in her life.  If I believed the reconnection was for closure or for her to help him (???)  ----  that would be one thing.  But I would guess she wants more. She'll take that internet friendship as it felt good at one time.  She'll settle for that.  And hope that he's different this time.  Something will change.  This is my guess.  I, of course, don't know.  And it is her life to live.

but I couldn't ever give advice for someone to do that to their life when they've stated they want more.  They want love.

I DO believe we can help who we fall in love with.  I had things that would make me rule someone in or out of my life.  I lived by them.  I never waivered.  I could have loved many.  In fact, I walked away from a man that I 'loved' deeply but he wasn't a healthy person.  Because I knew what kind of life I wanted.  And there are some people that love will never be enough to make it work.  

anyway, I wish the poster well and hope that your heart stays strong and you have every dream come true.  good luck to you and peace

[CML2014]

I read through various forums as a seeker of information. In many instances I never respond. I feel compelled to respond to your post because you were adamant in your belief this communication with this man was what was needed in your life in order to find some sort of peace or closure.

If your therapist has supported this decision then I believe  your need for answers from MedHelp is completely unnecessary.
Obviously we cannot help who we fall in love with. All the people in all the forums can give you their opinion , but you are going to do what you want . Unless someone completely agrees with you on this forum, you have no need to listen to them. All of the explaining in the world will not change the fact that you are determined to have this video call with this man and in someway you are counting on this as the solution to your feeling of helplessness.

As long as you are in therapy and have a professional to discuss your feelings with, I am afraid you are not going to be able to come to a forum like MedHelp for answers. We are not professional counselors, psychologists, or psychiatrists. We are just people trying to help support those in similar situations as ourselves through our own experience.

When you come to MedHelp you are asking for support and advice gleaned from life's experience with it's members, NOT answers to deep philological solutions.  We pay professionals for the answers and those answers may make for a very long journey into ourselves.

It is Sunday and perhaps by now you have the answers you were looking
for, I hope you conversation had some answers for you.

God Bless you.
CML

[Bipolar108]

Dear RockRose,
I am studying his condition, and it has helped me to understand his mindset.
The fact that this situation is lasting so long only proves how we both haven’t found peace. The fact that he is willing to have the video call we are having tomorrow also shows that he feels ready to face the issue again.

Dear SpecialMom,
What does real relationship means? In my opinion it means to love someone despite his issues, and being loved despite mine. The so called normal people have issues. I believe love is above it all.
People with significant mental disorders might be able to be understood only for someone who also faces limits. We are not our disorders, we suffer from them, and if someone can see the real us despite the disorders, that kind of love is real love.
I am sure I am doing this for the both of us. He is a beautiful and intelligent young man, who deserves to love and to be love. If we are able to dissolve the traumas of our breaking up, I will be more than happy to see him moving on. Of course I would like him to be with me, but if I see him allowing himself to pursue love with somebody else, it will mean our relationship didn’t leave any scars. Right now I feel I haven’t done all the good I want to do for him.
Dear Londres70,
My psychiatrist is very happy to know he is willing to have the video call. It was my psychiatrist who helped me to understand his disorder and not feel guilt for the breaking up.
He knows it is risky for me, as it would any other relationship I entered, since I value so much romance. But he also knows I use to face my issues, and this traumatic experience was haunting me for 2 years.
I am having a chance to clear misunderstandings in order to forgive and forget. This is what matters. Getting the relationship back would be a bonus.

[Londres70]

No insensitvity here.  It just sounds like the situation isn't going to be the best for you in the long run and it isn't the best for YOUR mental health.  It surely isn't going to minimize your psych problems.

[Londres70]

What did or does your therapist think about this?  

It would be MORE fruitful to ask a professional vs. seeking people over the internet to ask who aren't really in any position to give his/her point of view in regards to your question, e.g. others who suffer from APD.  

Nothing wrong with wanting love or someone to love, however, you are pining for a broken, mentally unhealthy man to love.  You even mentioned in one of your previous posts that you are ADDICTED to love.  

No one is being insensitive or harsh here.  No one in their RIGHT mind would condone what you are trying to do.  

All the best and I really think you should start dialoguing more with your therapist about these issues..............someone who has some CLARITY about these issues.

[specialmom]

I think most here are in successful relationships and that is why they are trying to help you.  There is legitimate worry that you are putting yourself right back into a bad situation that does not tend to lead to anyone forming real relationships.

Two people with significant mental health disorders may not be a good match.  That is a lot of unhealthy thinking, expectations and damage to overcome.  

There is not talking you out of the 'reconnection' as you are determined.  But please, do not delude yourself that it is for his benefit.  you've stayed stuck in this situation for so long now and are continuing that.  As it turned out last time for you both, healthy thinking would lead most to conclude it is not a smart thing to do, to reconnect.  But as this is not what you want to hear, do as you will.

But tread lightly.  I think it is foolhardy to think you are helping a young man that needs to be with real people that live near him that are his age.  that is how he will come out of his disorder rather than continuing an online communication with an older woman in another country.  

good luck

[RockRose]

On second glance,  the last post was about a year ago,  and it was spotty then.

This might prove to be nearly impossible,  as people with this disorder really do NOT want to form relationships,  online or off,  and tend to bow out after the first initial attempt,

[RockRose]

I agree,   this is probably not the best forum for you,  since you've decide to press on with this relationship.  

You might be better served in a forum that discusses avoidant personality disorder.  

It's against TOS to post a link to another online forum,  but you can google avoidant personality disorder and there is an excellent looking user forum hosted on psych forums.  

Best wishes.

[Bipolar108]

I most certainly didn’t post this question in the right forum. Maybe that is why it shocked me the lack of sensitivity in the answers I received and keep receiving.
I appreciate the time and energy, though.
My psychiatrist is helping me in this healing process. People who suffer from bipolar disorder, like myself, and people who suffer from avoidant personality disorder, like him, have the need to love just as anybody else.  
I am having a video call with him on Sunday, and will do my best to control my intensity, which scares the hell out of him. I just wanted to be more aware of his limits, as I am of mine, in order to have a smooth reencounter.
Unfortunately I didn’t get here the answer for the specific question I asked. I am not questioning if it is worth to invest in this relationship. I am humbling trying to know how to deal with this kind of personality, without inadvertently hurting his feelings, and making him feel more doomed than he already feels.
I am aware of the risk of being hurt myself, but I am willing to take this risk, because I can’t find peace unless this traumatic experience is dissolved, allowing both of us to have healthy relationships, whether with each other, or with somebody else.
I am not here to discuss if age gap relationships can work , or if online relationships can work. During our 7 months relationship we didn’t find these things an issue, and I am 100% sure that these things weren’t the problem.
In case anyone has any knowledge on how to approach people who suffer from avoidant personality disorder, I would appreciate to hear some advice.

[Life360_Dave]

Hi and just thought id add my 2 cents. He broke up with you and had a panic attack after he met you in person. Was this the first time he had seen you or had you shared photos prior to meeting. If he went into a panic attack after meeting you, its possible you were not what he expected.

[Londres70]

"I posted this thread because I am conscious of it, and just want to avoid more suffering for the both of us. This is the advice I am looking for here. How to help someone whose disorder prevents him of being helped?..............

No one has been "insensitive" here.  You may not care for the advice/feedback you have received, but I wouldn't call that "insensitive."  I think the advice/feedback is what is warranted here.

Then you go on to say........."Please, people, read more about his condition, and try to think as if you were a compassionate person who, even though has suffered a lot with this story, is still willing to face the problem and do good."............................Hon, this isn't psychological help online nor are we in the position to advise someone how to deal with someone with SEVERE psychiatric/psychological issues.  You are asking us to play psychologist/psychiatrist here.  It isn't OUR place to help you to help him address his issues to EASE your guilt about not being able to help him on your own.

If I read your ages correctly you are 51 and he is 25.  This is basically a parent/child relationship..............you trying to take care of him and you feel responsible for him.

To sum this up this is nothing more than a co-dependent relationship.  Furthermore, I don't think your therapist or any therapist would condone this relationship.  

Lastly, I suggest you talk IN DEPTH with your therapist about this relationship. Sort this out with a PROFESSIONALand not with lay persons over the internet.

[specialmom]

Let me reiterate..  I think you are fooling yourself by saying you want to reconnect with him to help HIM.  That is all about you.  And there are times we have to realize that and do the right thing.  good luck

[specialmom]

This is the relationships forum.  We talk about relationships here.   We are not discussing your or his mental health issues but the relationship and how it caused him pain, you pain and is not a good thing to envision continuing again by skyping with him or emailing.  YOU are holding your life in limbo.  This will not help you have a REAL relationship in your life.  

I'm not being insensitive but rather hope for more for you.

Now, think about this. You are not a doctor.  Your desire to 'help' him is self serving.  What if you make things worse?  He needs help from a trained professional.  

I am sorry you have suffered.  You have to make real change in your life which I do understand is very hard due to your disorder.  But with proper treatment, many with bipolar go on to live decent, happy lives.  I hope this for you.  And going backwards won't help that in my opinion.  good luck

[RockRose]

Reading through your profile,  another thought is just to have the online communication with him,  and that's it.

It seemed he was comfortable with that and you both benefitted from that relationship.

The problem when you find someone who wants an online relationship,  you have to accept that really is all they are capable of.  

There are a LOT of dating sites where this failure occurs.  A dating site that allows you a long period of online communication with no face to face meeting is a magnet for people who don't want to meet face to face.

[RockRose]

I don't mean to sound insensitive,  but the truth is,  I do feel less sensitive about him and this situation than you do.

It's one thing to reach out and try to help someone in need - and offer them some help.

It's another to find a man who is clearly incapable of a relationship and trying to make him your life partner.  

You say you feel "guilt" for not being his partner.  Guilt,  in my opinion,  is something you feel when you've done something wrong.  I think what you're feeling might be closer to sadness and grief.  You haven't done anything at all wrong in being unable to form a relationship with this man,  given the amount of energy and effort you've put into making the impossible happen.

Again,  sorry to sound insensitive.  Sometimes sensitivity is over rated and not all that helpful in making critical life decisions.

Best wishes.

[Bipolar108]

I am shocked with the lack of sensitivity of the answers I received here.
RockRose, I feel guilt for having scared him away. The truth is, that even still loving him, I would be glad to know that he has moved on and found someone with whom he can express himself romantically and sexually. But I know he is still alone and scared of being touched. It is part of his condition. I didn't choose this. I am just not used to abandon those who I love. It is not in my nature. Your comment offended me. I am not that selfish. Of course I wanted to be loved, but what makes me suffer the most in this story is that fact that I couldn't contribute with his healing process.
SpecialMom, these last 2 years were hell. I was admitted in a psych ward, I tried suicide twice, and tried many methods of therapy. I have a beautiful psychiatrist who helps me and who I trust, and right now I could find some balance with the proper medication. My life is very difficult because I care for my elderly mom, and most of the time internet is the only place I have to meet new people. Right now I am doing Pilates and learning how to play drums. These 2 things became effective therapies. But the pain I feel for having produced the opposite effect I wanted to produce in his life, just kills me. I can't stop caring about him. We both know we are taking the risk of hurting each other again, we discussed this possibility in the emails we recently exchanged. I posted this thread because I am conscious of it, and just want to avoid more suffering for the both of us. This is the advice I am looking for here. How to help someone whose disorder prevents him of being helped? Please, people, read more about his condition, and try to think as if you were a compassionate person who, even though has suffered a lot with this story, is still willing to face the problem and do good.

[specialmom]

I went back and read your original posts on this.  I think it is cruel to yourself and cruel to him to begin this again.  You are setting yourself up for more pain.  You have to get a life where you are at and leave the internet alone.  It does not make for real relationships.  You want it so desperately that you are willing to pretend otherwise but deep down you know.  You have to be strong and walk away from this.  

what have you done to improve your life when you initially posted about this?  That is the big question hon.  good luck

[Londres70]

Ditto SM.  

[specialmom]

Hi and welcome.  Well, I think you should leave him alone. You met a person with a known disorder online who avoids people (and online relationships are basically AVOIDING people).  He had a panic attack.  He's not ready, willing or able to do anything more.  You seem a bit obsessed with the situation which seems to help YOU AVOID real relationships yourself.

I would think about that last sentence.  This is kind of indicative of things being amiss with you hon.  Do you see a psychiatrist/therapist?  It would be so helpful to explore your own internal situation.  good luck

[RockRose]

Well,  is this what you want in life?

Or are you settling for this guy because you think if you can some how manage to get him,  at least no one else will take him away?